What Manning Revealed - Read This & Tell Me Just WHO Is Our Government Keeping Safe?

[kpete]

What did WikiLeaks reveal?

PFC Bradley Manning is a US Army intelligence specialist who is accused of releasing classified information to WikiLeaks, an organization that he allegedly understood would release portions of the information to news organizations and ultimately to the public.

The "Iraq War Logs" published by WikiLeaks revealed that thousands of reports of prisoner abuse and torture had been filed against the Iraqi Security Forces. Medical evidence detailed how prisoners had been whipped with heavy cables across the feet, hung from ceiling hooks, suffered holes being bored into their legs with electric drills, urinated upon, and sexually assaulted.


U.S. defense contractors were brought under much tighter supervision after leaked diplomatic cables revealed that they had been complicit in child trafficking activities. DynCorp -- a powerful defense contracting firm that claims almost $2 billion per year in revenue from U.S. tax dollars -- threw a party for Afghan security recruits featuring boys purchased from child traffickers for entertainment.


The Guantanamo Files describe how detainees were arrested based on what the New York Times referred to as highly subjective evidence. For example, some poor farmers were captured after they were found wearing a common watch or a jacket that was the same as those also worn by Al Queda operatives. How quickly innocent prisoners were released was heavily dependent on their country of origin.

Even though the Bush and Obama Administrations maintained publicly that there was no official count of civilian casualties, the Iraq and Afghanistan War Logs showed that this claim was false. Between 2004 and 2009, the U.S. government counted a total of 109,000 deaths in Iraq, with 66,081 classified as non-combatants. This means that for every Iraqi death that is classified as a combatant, two innocent men, women or children are also killed.


-U.S. Military officials withheld information about the indiscriminate killing of Reuters journalists and innocent Iraqi civilians.

-The State Department backed corporate opposition to a Haitian minimum wage law.

-The U.S. Government had long been faking its public support for Tunisian President Ben Ali.

-Known Egyptian torturers received training from the FBI in Quantico, Virginia.

-The State Department authorized the theft of the UN Secretary General's DNA.

-The Obama Administration allowed Yemen's President to cover up a secret U.S. drone bombing campaign.


MORE:
http://www.bradleymanning.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/WikiLeaks2.pdf
http://www.bradleymanning.org/news/what-did-wikileaks-reveal



Meanwhile, still free to roam the streets, take their book tours and collect their 5- and 6-digit speaking fees, is the cabal of scorpions that rationalized torture which they claimed was not torture, secretly rendered people off the streets of U.S. allies and secretly transported them to secret prisons in nations ruled by dictatorial regimes, fabricated evidence to take us into Iraq, where thousands of Americans and tens if not hundreds of thousands of Iraqis died in the conflict, conjured up a hell-hole at Guantánamo Bay, a place the attorneys created to be jurisdictionless—not quite the U.S., not quite Cuba—and thus free from both American and international law.

[think]

1. K&R

[Major Hogwash]

2. He was found guilty today. He will serve the remainder of his life in prison for it.

So, it's a little late for wishing for a different outcome now.

[Zorra]

5. Anyone who is pleased about that is piece of shit fascist scumbag. nt

[cstanleytech]

11. I dont think many are *pleased* with it.

I know I am not *pleased* but nor am I saddened as the facts are what they are and the facts are that he did break the law and really it could have gone far worse for him if the charge for espionage had held up.
Now the real question is what will they sentence him to Zorra? I dont personally believe a long sentence is warranted but nor is a slap on the wrist warranted since he didnt have to break the law to get the information out so I would say 5 years maybe 15 max with time served.
Its severe but not overly severe.

[freedom fighter jh]

66. He didn't have to break the law to get the info out?

How else could he have gotten it out?

[cstanleytech]

80. If I recall correctly he could have just reported it to a member of congress

(or members) and or to the inspector generals office anything he believed was a crime and he legally would have had protection atleast legally.
Of course thats not to say the military wouldnt retaliate by say transferring him to a post say in the arctic or not promote him but legally they couldnt have charged him with a crime I believe.

[freedom fighter jh]

82. I guess it depends on what you mean by "get the info out."

Sure he could have reported it to Congress or the IG, but that's not to say that it would then have been public.

And the military might have done much worse than transfer him to the Arctic.

[cstanleytech]

84. Problem is we will never know now how congress or the IG would have

handled the situtation since Manning decide it was ok to break the law and provide all that information to wikileaks.

[dflprincess]

128. Seriously?

We never would have heard a word of it and Bradley Manning would have been sent to Iraq and Afghanistan where he would have become the tragic victim of "friendly fire".

[cstanleytech]

133. Or he might have been promoted or he might have resigned

and ran for congress or he might have won a 600 million dollar powerball jackpot!!

[truth2power]

96. "Report it to a member of Congress". Pardon me...

Whew!!!! That was fun!

now , I think I'm going to be sick.

[bvar22]

106. Yeah. Go Tell the BOSS that you found him doing something sneaky.

He'll get Right. On. It.

[cstanleytech]

123. True getting congress to act would be difficult but there is the other option of

the inspector generals office as well.

[Marr]

119. LOL.

You can't be serious.

[MrMickeysMom]

159. How do you feel about other *laws* when they are broken?

When the laws on the books were corrupted on how the savings and loan industry could turn into a casino that is no longer interested in our savings or conditions of who gets a loan, how does that make you feel?

I'd say we treat the seriousness of what was revealed by Manning by not torturing him after solitary confinement and barring of any legal representative. If this guy was due his day in court, it surely passed long ago, under military *law*.

It's already been "severe" and the due process for any law has been steadily blown out of the water.

No, I'm not *pleased* with many things, but I'm particularly incensed by how laws over who's a traitor and what we do to them in our name has been shown to Bradley Manning... because his revealed documents showed something we should be ashamed of.

So, we should be glad for his due process? I'd say we're all getting screwed with any processed applied to the whistle blowing per Pfc Manning.

[cstanleytech]

170. Depends on the law.

http://sneakykitchen.com/Humor/old_laws.htm

[MrMickeysMom]

171. guess so!

[cstanleytech]

172. Well dont get me wrong.

I only think some of our laws are absurd, others make sense such as handling of classified documents which is how they were able to prosecute Manning.
Now the process of how they decide what to classify and why they classify it does need a major overhaul because some of the things are absurd that they are putting under "classified information".

[NealK]

21. Well said. nt

[DevonRex]

28. Zorra, stop that. He didn't say he was pleased. He simply stated the fact. Enough.

You know better. And you ARE better. I know that for a fact.

You have strong opinions and you're angry. But this poster isn't the cause of it. He's just a convenient punching bag at the moment. He's also a person.

[Zorra]

86. I will continue to speak out against fascists and fascism whenever, and wherever.

We simply cannot continue to appease fascists and fascism.

I didn't say he was pleased. I made a general, factual statement.

If he was pleased, I still stand by what I said.

It's true, I am extremely distressed about anyone who expresses quasi-nazi satisfaction about someone being convicted and going to prison for doing the right thing. I detest fascists, fascism, and nazis.

It's still fascism when we do it.

Nuremberg Principle IV
Main article: Superior Orders
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_principles

Principle IV states: "The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him".

This principle could be paraphrased as follows: "It is not an acceptable excuse to say 'I was just following my superior's orders'".

Principle VI

Principle VI states,

"The crimes hereinafter set out are punishable as crimes under international law:

(a) Crimes against peace:

(i) Planning, preparation, initiation or waging of a war of aggression or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances;

(ii) Participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of any of the acts mentioned under (i).

(b) War crimes:

Violations of the laws or customs of war which include, but are not limited to, murder, ill-treatment or deportation to slave labor or for any other purpose of civilian population of or in occupied territory; murder or ill-treatment of prisoners of war or persons on the Seas, killing of hostages, plunder of public or private property, wanton destruction of cities, towns, or villages, or devastation not justified by military necessity.

(c) Crimes against humanity:

Murder, extermination, enslavement, deportation and other inhumane acts done against any civilian population, or persecutions on political, racial, or religious grounds, when such acts are done or such persecutions are carried on in execution of or in connection with any crime against peace or any war crime."

Principle VII

Principle VII states, "Complicity in the commission of a crime against peace, a war crime, or a crime against humanity as set forth in Principle VI is a crime under international law."

[Vanje]

112. Do you have any opinion on the information thant Manning released?

Any opinion at all?

[Vanje]

113. "He's also a person"

Prove it.

[DevonRex]

124. Prove a DU member is a human being? You really said that.

Good day.

[Marr]

122. Save the concilliatory bullshit, please.

That poster has been consistent in his swaggering taunts on this and similar topics, and Zorra's remark was quite on the mark.

Personally, I'd expand the definition of 'fascist scumbag' to include people who defend the people who are openly pleased about this as well, but that's just me.

[JDPriestly]

30. It could have been worse. It isn't right. But we can right it.

Manning should be set free. But it will take time.

The danger for Manning is that our government's thugs illegally punish, perhaps kill him, in prison.

We need to change the laws to protect whistleblowers in the CIA, NSA, and all other security and every agency in the government including all of the military.

I understand that Sen. Grassley is bringing in a bill that will do that. I think a Democrat should have spoken up first. It's shameful that it is a Republican and not a Democrat doing it.

[malaise]

47. +1,000 n/t

[RC]

99. You mean there is still a difference between the 1½ flavors of Congress critters?

I think a Democrat should have spoken up first. It's shameful that it is a Republican and not a Democrat doing it.

[Pelican]

54. I'm pleased as punch...

Fuck Bradley Manning...

He is the typical disgruntled employee who failed miserably at his work and tried to strike back in the only way he knew how. Any claims of "whistleblower" are bullshit.

Seems he bit off a bit more than he can chew and I hope he thinks about it every day.

[truebluegreen]

72. Project much?

[NuclearDem]

75. You really missed the point didn't you?

Manning, whatever his motive, state of mind, or personal history, revealed extraordinary abuses by our government against innocent people around the world. Abuses which were kept secret and done in our name.

So fuck the people who actually committed the offenses. It's a disgrace Manning went on trial while they got off scot free.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

90. I hope you're embarrassed about your post.

If not, you should be.

That post was sociopathic.

[Divine Discontent]

97. Highly disturbing. This IS Democratic Underground. So you know, in case you've forgotten.

pfft!

[Pelican]

125. Right...

I share the position of President Obama, the leader of the Democratic Party, that people shouldn't abuse their security clearances, that diplomats should be able to converse privately and that if abuses are discovered the whistleblower channels should be at least tried before just throwing everything you can get your hands on into the wind in an attempt to hurt the military and the US government.

[Vanje]

136. What do you think about the crimes, and cover ups

that Manning exposed?

[NuclearDem]

150. Diplomats were conversing privately to cover up child rape in Afghanistan

Push corporate interests for Monsanto in Europe, destroy minimum wage laws in Central America, and keep an out-of-control drone program in Yemen hush-hush so the public wouldn't know about it.

That shit needed to be exposed, and if you think you're justified in defending it, you're not a progressive.

There are plenty of soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines here who took the same oath you did, and yet they overwhelmingly seem grateful for Manning's actions in exposing these abuses.

[Vanje]

111. What do you think about the crimes he exposed?

Seriously.
Are you unmoved?

[Ghost in the Machine]

116. Ok, you can go crawl back into the "Cave", or the other "underground" you crawled out of...

... and tell Frank Solich, or SarasotaRepub(or his wife, SaintLouieWoman) that you failed on your mission, and may have to "burn a mole", even though you've made it to over 1000 posts with it.

Only a hardcore True Believer that all Government action is good, and anyone exposing their lies, crimes, etc. is bad, and that person gets punished while the real perps walk free and continue doing what they were/are doing. It's been my observation that 99.9% of those "Hardcore True Believers" are also hardcore rightwing hacks or TEA Party members, not that there's much difference between the two.

Yeah, I have an obsession with sites that have an obsession with us. Who knows, it may be possible that I have moles there, too! Your writing style is familiar to me.

Have a nice evening

Ghost

[Pelican]

129. WTF are you talking about?

I don't know Frank Solich or any of the other people you are talking about.

I'm passionate about the Manning case because I have respect for the oath that I took. I also know the exact type of Soldier he is/was.

That whiny, pathetic, always in trouble, never can get it right loser who takes up the time that competent Soldiers could use. Normally they just limp along until their first tour is up and go home to daddy to talk about what a badass they were over in "the shit"."

Manning just managed to take crash and burn to the next level and he deserves everything he got.

[Vanje]

146. but no opinion about the crimes and cover-ups he exposed?

You are unreal.

[JustAnotherGen]

167. oh no

He is definitely 'real' - just not really a Democratic/Lib/Progressive. Look at join date and where most of his posts are. Just keep up pressure on this one. Keep saying the same thing over and over again.

[avebury]

69. Agreed!

I am sick and tired of the Government going after the whistleblowers and little people while they turn a blind eye on the crimes of 1) the previous administration, 2) the Wall Streeters who tanked our economy, and the Corporations and 1%. It hardly matters that we have a Democrat in the WH and the majority in Congress because the Republicans are determined to finish destroying what is left of this country, both nationally and in the states. The powers to be want to squash out all attempts of the people to speak out about what is going on and shining the light of day on the crimes and attrocities that occur now on a daily basis. This country is rotting within from the top to the bottom and I see no inidication that it will change in my lifetime.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

89. +1000

[Th1onein]

8. Is that okay with you?

Are you good with it? Do you support it?

[think]

23. Justice or persecution? Manning has already been in jail 3 years.

The following was posted here earlier (Bold added for emphasis):

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023375524



Michael Moore: What Bradley Manning's Sentence Will Tell Us About Our Military Justice System
Today Bradley Manning was convicted on 20 of 22 counts, including violating the Espionage Act, releasing classified information and disobeying orders. That's the bad news. The good news is he was found not guilty on the charge of "aiding the enemy." That's 'cause who he was aiding was us, the American people. And we're not the enemy. Right?

Manning now faces a potential maximum sentence of 136 years in jail. When his sentence is announced tomorrow, we'll all get a good idea of how seriously the U.S. military takes different crimes. When you hear about how long Manning – now 25 years old – will be in prison, compare it to sentences received by other soldiers:

Col. Thomas M. Pappas, the senior military intelligence officer at Abu Ghraib and the senior officer present the night of the murder of Iraqi prisoner Manadel al-Jamadi, received no jail time. But he was reprimanded and fined $8,000. (Pappas was heard to say about al-Jamadi, "I'm not going down for this alone.&quot

Sgt. Sabrina Harman, the woman famously seen giving a thumbs-up next to al-Jamadi's body and in another photo smiling next to naked, hooded Iraqis stacked on each other in Abu Ghraib, was sentenced to six months for maltreating detainees.

Spec. Armin Cruz was sentenced to eight months for abusing Iraqis at Abu Ghraib and covering up the abuse.

Spc. Steven Ribordy was sentenced to eight months for being accessory to the murder of four Iraqi prisoners who were "bound, blindfolded, shot and dumped in a canal" in Baghdad in 2007.

Spc. Belmor Ramos was sentenced to seven months for conspiracy to commit murder in the same case.

Sgt. Michael Leahy Jr. was sentenced to life in prison for committing the four Baghdad murders. The military then granted him clemency and reduced his sentence to 20 years, with parole possible after seven.

Marine Sgt. Frank D. Wuterich received no jail time for negligent dereliction in the massacre of 24 unarmed men, women and children in 2005 in the Iraqi town of Haditha. Seven other members of his battalion were charged but none were punished in any way.

Marine Lance Cpl. Jerry Shumate and Lance Cpl. Tyler Jackson were both sentenced to 21 months for the aggravated assault of Hashim Ibrahim Awad, 52, a father of 11 and grandfather of four, in Al Hamdania in 2006. Awad died after being shot during the assault. Their sentences were later reduced.

Marine Lance Cpl. Robert Pennington was sentenced to eight years for the same incident, but served only a few months before being granted clemency and released from prison.

Marine Sgt. Lawrence G. Hutchins III was sentenced to 15 years for murder in the Awad case but his conviction was soon overturned and he was released.

No soldiers received any punishment for the killing of five Iraqi children, four women and two men in one Ishaqi home in 2006. Among the U.S. diplomatic cables leaked by Bradley Manning was email from a UN official stating that U.S. soldiers had "executed all of them."

When Wikileaks published the cable, the uproar in Iraq was so big that the Nouri al-Maliki government couldn't grant any remaining U.S. troops immunity from prosecution in Iraqi courts, thus forcing the Obama administration to abandon its plans to keep several thousand U.S. soldiers in Iraq permanently. All U.S. troops were removed at the end of 2011.

My guess is Bradley Manning will spend more time in jail than all of the other soldiers in all of these cases put together. And thus, instead of redeeming ourselves and asking forgiveness for the crimes that Spc. Manning exposed, we will reaffirm to the world who we really are.


http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/mike-friends-blog/what-bradley-mannings-sentence-will-tell-us-about-military-justice-system

[JDPriestly]

31. Thanks. You raise a central issue: how do we measure justice?

[blackspade]

121. +1000

Moore nails it as usual.

[Fire Walk With Me]

50. "Major Hogwash" is a character you're playing, right? Like "Miss Information"?

Because that's the only thing which could explain your support for Bush and Obama international war crimes and that a man has lost his freedom for calling bullshit about thousands upon thousands of needless deaths.

[MrMickeysMom]

161. + an unbelievable amount of "yep, uh-huh's and right-on's"

Unbelievable ...

[sabrina 1]

58. Are you happy about this injustice and the fact the war criminals will live out their lives in

luxury from the blood money they were rewarded with, or are you angry about the state of our nation, when heroes like Manning, rather than War Crimiinals like Cheney, are the ones the Government decides not to 'move forward' from?

It's hard to tell what your comment means.

[Gregorian]

68. You seem to have missed the big picture. This isn't about Manning. It's about our government.

It is never too late for a different outcome in that context.

[Bradical79]

78. That has yet to be determined.

We won't know how long he will be imprisoned until Friday.

[Hissyspit]

93. You a big fan of kangaroo courts?

[grahamhgreen]

109. No, it isn't. Never too late to do the right thing.

[blackspade]

118. then it's a tragic day for the military justice system

he has ample grounds to appeal fortunately.

[MrMickeysMom]

160. I won't be as polite as other commenters to your post...

"So, it's a little late".... makes me want to spit up, as if we can be that stupid to swallow what you posted.

I say, it's never too late to rein in a military operation that went off the reservation after Sept 11th. Hell, it's way past due to rein those sons of bitches in...

I find The Cheney's and Bush's crime ridden, and unprincipled conduct that was carefully spearheading us into illegal acts of war, never on the books, a total commitment to support a "1% solution" INEXCUSABLE. As an American who was continually lied to on behalf of all the blood spilled for oil, I find them all guilty of inexcusable war crimes. Remember how these illegal operations were supposed to be over in weeks and "pay for themselves"? How bout them apples?

Too bad the Obama administration doesn't feel the same way I do. Meanwhile, that piece of shit Cheney got someone's perfectly good new heart. And, everyone who executed the Bush administration's crimes against humanity gets a pass.

But, when it's clearly pointed out by a Pfc, you are perfectly fine because he "broke the law".

You can simply blow it off with a statement like that, can you? Un-FUCKING-believable...

[AnotherDreamWeaver]

3. Well, sure sounds like it's those "scoripons" for the 1 percent... nt

[rhett o rick]

4. We have an up hill battle. Even some so-called Democrats here side with the authoritarian state. nm

[kenny blankenship]

7. You must remember they've turned and they aren't really Democrats

[KoKo]

56. lol's...

one picture...worth a thousand words. What happened? Twas it always so? The Walking Dead amongst us... "Who Could Have Known?" (Famous Condi Rice Quote...later used by others to cover any further crisis affecting the security, health and financial well-being of US citizens.)

[rhett o rick]

59. I think they are just afraid. They were raised in comfortable security and they are

willing to sell their souls for the promise of more security. They hate those that dare expose the naked emperor.

[DJ13]

62. I think a good many are Republican runaways, re-registering as Dems to escape the insane GOP

They are still conservatives, trying to remake their new party into the old Reagan GOP.

[SomethingFishy]

77. Pretty accurate I'd say...

Everything shifts to the right.

[BrotherIvan]

100. ^^This!^^

[Th1onein]

6. The State Department authorized the theft of the UN Secretary General's DNA.

WHY would they want this?

[Spitfire of ATJ]

17. Plant it in a hotel room with a dead hooker.

[JDPriestly]

32. I would never have thought of that.

We accept DNA evidence at the scene of a crime as pretty solid evidence. You make me wonder about it. Remember the OJ trial.

Despite that safeguard, it emerged during the cross-examination of Fung and the other laboratory scientists that the police scientist Andrea Mazzola (who collected blood samples from Simpson to compare with evidence from the crime scene) was a trainee who carried the vial of Simpson's blood around in her lab coat pocket for nearly a day before handing it over as an exhibit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O._J._Simpson_murder_case

That was one of the factors that made it difficult to convict OJ.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

39. More than that,...

They collected blood at the murder scene and took it with them to the OJ house and then "found" a tiny trace way up under the dash.

The LAPD has a long history of planting evidence and it looked like they did it in this case as well.

[chimpymustgo]

46. LAPD clearly planted blood in OJ's house. PD's plant guns, drugs all the time. Big Govt taking cues?

Capturing and collecting personal information, DNA, etc - just another tool in the arsenal to control all of us (even the UN Sec Gen.).

The worst dystopian nightmare could be unfolding.

[NealK]

20. Good question.

[OnyxCollie]

24. No (morally) good reason.

That applies to surreptitiously collected iris scans, finger prints, and passwords, too.

[MADem]

34. To identify his remains if someone attacks the UN. nt

[rusty fender]

74. They wouldn't need to steal it if this is the case

but you knew that.

[MADem]

104. Excuse me? We have no "authority" to "demand" the DNA of foreigners in leadership roles.

But I would not be surprised at all if we routinely "steal" it after meetings that involve coffee and snacks and water.

You seriously think that it would inspire confidence if USA went round to world leaders with a long handled Q tip, and asked for some DNA "just in case?"

But you knew that.

[rusty fender]

157. You don't think that the UN doesn't already have

the Sec. General's DNA on file for such an occasion?

You will probably come up with another preposterous reason for the need of the U.S. to steal the Sec. General's DNA, and that will show your hand as a catapulter of the propaganda when you do.

No one is buying your bullshit.

[MADem]

158. I'm not buying yours, and your attempts to provoke are lame in the extreme.

You have one of those real nice days, now.

[pscot]

9. You've been doing great job on this story, kpete

I just want you to know how much we appreciate it.

[think]

27. +1

[JDPriestly]

33. +2

[woo me with science]

36. +100000

Thank you.

[Agony]

45. +1

Muchas gracias por el tiempo que usted pone en este.

[kpete]

53. de nada

and peace
kp

[MrMickeysMom]

162. Agreed...

in spades...

[Divernan]

10. US defense contractor involved in child traficking? Beyond vile, disgusting, horrifying!

I knew some of the facts in your OP, but there were several that were new to me.

I've lived a long time, and for 3 years of that time, I was a National Institute of Mental Health Research Fellow. I have observed over the decades that mental illness is often contagious, in the sense that those who live and/or work in close contact with the mentally ill/morally depraved, become enablers and often adopt these behaviors and join in on the depravity themselves. I also believe that there is such a thing as "evil". I used to consider it extremely rare, but looking over the list of facts which Manning exposed, I'd say that evil is becoming epidemic.

I think Bradley Manning recognized two roads diverging in his life and he consciously chose to take what I consider the moral high road.

[cstanleytech]

12. True there was no good excuse for assisting in covering that up.

And that should be one of the mitigating factors in sentencing but also keep in mind he could have reported it legally to congress and or the inspector generals office but he choose not to.

[Divernan]

14. I believe he made the right choice to make sure it wasn't covered up.

[Hydra]

15. He wasn't able to

Other whistleblowers have gone through the system and been gagged or buried. Manning managed to get the info out, and Snowden learned from his mistakes to do it better. Ironically, Manning tried to get the NYT to do it, but they predictably sided with the establishment. The gov't basically forced him toward Assange.

The next great whistleblower will pull it off perfectly, I think. We'll never know who s/he is, and his release will be the proper size to get things moving in the right direction, or will come out in stages in an automated fashion.

[cstanleytech]

16. Well hopefully future whistleblowers will also take more care to only

release things that truly need to be exposed and not do things like providing details on US intelligence efforts to a foreign power.

[Scootaloo]

22. Yup, they better watch their step, or else!

...Seriously, what the fuck is going through your head right now? Whatever it is, I can't believe it's encountering a lot of friction.

[cstanleytech]

29. Insults from you wont change actual facts, sorry if you felt it would. nt

[questionseverything]

85. seriously can't we all agree

this is wrong and has got to be stopped in whatever way possible

<<<<<<<<<< Medical evidence detailed how prisoners had been whipped with heavy cables across the feet, hung from ceiling hooks, suffered holes being bored into their legs with electric drills, urinated upon, and sexually assaulted.>>>>>>>>>>>.

[cstanleytech]

88. Sure thats wrong but I assume you must have meant to reply to someone else as

I never said that kinda stuff was ok.

[questionseverything]

168. yes by siding with the truthblockers

you are enabling that to continue..in fact you are encouraging it

you say manning broke the law but you ignore the information of extreme law breaking he exposed

[cstanleytech]

169. "you say manning broke the law" No, Manning did that when he pleaded guilty.

Not saying he didnt have good intentions but the facts are what they are.
Seeing though as most of what he revealed that wasnt covering up something vital and was largely just embarrassing hopefully the court wont impose the maximum sentence on him and instead give him only 5 years or so with time served.

[Hydra]

67. What, so they have to do it in a fashion you completely approve of?

These people are risking their lives to give us a window to people who don't want to be seen. If you are really concerned about national security, get out there and pound pavement to make them do it right. Right now, someone is sitting in Edward Snowden's position at Booz Allen funneling information to the Chinese and collecting their paycheck month after month. Our security has so many holes it may as well be swiss cheese.

We wouldn't have known that if Snowden hadn't shown us that. He was not properly background checked, and nobody is overseeing any of this processes.

[cstanleytech]

83. Its not an issue of my approving its an issue of the law

and the law is pretty clear over how to handle classified information and in this case the proper and legal way to handle it would have been to report it to the inspector general and or to congress.
Now I realize Manning and Snowden revealed crimes or what they thought were crimes, ok I get that but the real problem is they also revealed alot of stuff that didnt involve a crime and in Mannings case it was largely the internal embassy memos (not a major crime on his part but still a crime) and in Snowdens it was largely providing details on US intelligence efforts in other countries.

[RC]

101. And who is to decide which is what?

The whole spying enchilada is based on paranoia. Everybody is the enemy. The only "friends" are those that enable and reenforce your paranoia, and even they are suspect.
How does that promote peace when we hide everything, including the bathroom sink, lie, and claim National Security to protect the lies?
If you or I acted like this, we be put in an institution for treatment.

[Vanje]

114. We know what you think of whistle-blowers.

What do you think of the war-crimes that Manning exposed?

[cstanleytech]

132. You are going to have to be more specific on what war crimes you

believe he exposed.

[Vanje]

138. Child-trafficking by contractors...

Covering up massacre of Rueters newsmen,

Torturing prisoners....

and though its not a war cime, How do you like that the Obama admin squelched wage increase in Haiti?

Have you any comments about any of the wrongdoings, or, er, PR problems that Manning exposed?

Any comments on the meat of the article.
You're not bothered, not even a wee bit vexed?

[cstanleytech]

154. Manning didnt expose torture we already knew the US was involved in

outsourcing that.
The child trafficking I addressed in another thread and specifically said it was a legit issue to whistleblow about though he could have contacted the Inspector General over it.
But as for your Reuters reporters killed I assume you are referring to the July 12, 2007 incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_12,_2007_Baghdad_airstrike ?
If so my gut says it was but evidence wise...........not sure if it could be proven.

[OnyxCollie]

26. I thought it was Wackenhut/Armorgroup that trafficked young boys, not Dyncorp.

But maybe it was only a party where they got naked and drank vodka shots out of each others asses.

[Bluenorthwest]

60. Widespread practice, and yet people are not angered by this, but by the fact that it was revealed

Twisted priorities in this thread. Bradley stood up for innocent kids being used as property by US Government contractors using tax money. Using OUR money.

[OnyxCollie]

61. No one's claimed it's an attempt

by racists to bring down the President, so there's that to be thankful for.

[Vanje]

115. Yeah.

The fact has me reeling.

[JDPriestly]

35. Well said.

[Fire Walk With Me]

52. In Bizarro world, child traffickers go free while those who call bullshit on it are imprisoned. n/t

[MisterP]

79. The Man in the High Castle

"There is evil! It's actual, like cement.
I can't believe it. I can't stand it.
Evil is not a view ... it's an ingredient in us. In the world. Poured over us, filtering into our bodies, minds, hearts, into the pavement itself."

[Bradical79]

81. It's not the first time. Happened in Bosnia

Same company, Dyncorp, I think. Read about it in Rachael Maddow's book. Basically, the contractors were keeping young girls as sex slaves in their tents purchased from local organized crime orgs.

[Phlem]

13. I don't know so much about who, but what

Power, intimidation, out right disregard for the constitution?

We're going to have some dark times ahead that we need to work through. We need to thread that needle until we have a strong knot on corporations.

We need to hang in there and keep, keeping on.

I do see the reality. Been spouting it out for years, but I'm some kind of fringe leftist hack.

What do you do when it's kill the messenger?



-p

[DeSwiss]

18. K&R

[font color=gray size=3]A Different Perspective[/font]

''No one who lives in error is free.'' ~Euripides
-
"Battle not with monsters - lest ye become a monster." ~Friedrich Nietzsche
-
"To fight the empire is to be infected by its derangement. Whoever defeats part of the empire becomes the empire; it proliferates like a virus... thereby it becomes its enemies." ~Philip K. Dick
-
"When masses are made to believe something negative, they may create what they did not want, which is how for instance the 'N.W.O.' works. You are believing it is taking shape, so it will take shape and so-called think tanks and political theorists are major players in helping this take shape by bombarding us with the 'facts' that it is taking shape. Those facts claim that you are giving-in to their power everyday, and they control you more... while in reality you are in full control.

So the people who are 'waking up' to it are the ones who are creating it. They say: ''Resist, the control being forced upon humanity. React, when they do their political manueverings to bring about less sovereignty and greater suffering for the nations of the world.''

But we mustn’t resist and react to this control. As Carl Jung said, ''What you resist, persists.'' What the powers that be want is for us to become that radical element (again it doesn’t matter which side we choose). We can be either for them or against them. If we react and if we resist, we give them the manipulative power to push the agenda along. By resisting and reacting, we are demonstrating that we believe in the underlying, subliminal and hypnotic suggestion of this reality, thereby making it our reality, and the events they wish to occur concerning humanity, and that they wish to appear real, will occur and it becomes our reality.

Do not pay attention to the 'world events', they are all orchestrated to make you pay attention to them. The struggle you should pay attention to is on a personal level."

~The Insider

[canoeist52]

91. +1 Shunning is one of the most powerful reprimands.

Boycotts and refusal to work are very effective forms of resistance.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

19. Too bad Amnesty International is ignored in America.

[MotherPetrie]

25. The Obama Administration: Protecting Criminals and Screwing Over Whistleblowers, 24/7

[woo me with science]

37. Thank you. This should go to the Greatest Page.

[99th_Monkey]

38. M$M: yawn

Like it's apparently "not in vogue" anymore to give a rats ass about innocent
people being murdered in our name.

[Smarmie Doofus]

40. But gosh. He took a solemn oath! He PROMISED!!

It must be lovely living in the child-like, morally simplistic universe of the Manning critics.

K and R

[Scuba]

41. K&R

[B Calm]

42. US NAVY 1969-73 K&R

[kentuck]

43. kick

There is no reason to keep an eye on our government. Trust them.

[Berlum]

44. America needs to look in the mirror and face these ugly facts

k and r

[randome]

48. Manning was not a whistleblower.

http://www.nationalreview.com/the-feed/3598/wikileaks-defense-everyone-iraq-has-ak-47

Julian Assange, a WikiLeaks editor, acknowledged to Fox News in an interview Tuesday evening that “it’s likely some of the individuals seen in the video were carrying weapons.” Assange said his suspicions about the weapons were so strong that a draft version of the video they produced made specific reference to the AK-47s and RPGs. Ultimately, Assange said, WikiLeaks became “unsure” about the weapons. He claimed the RPG could have been a camera tripod, so editors decided not to point it out. “Based upon visual evidence I suspect there probably were AKs and an RPG, but I’m not sure that means anything,” Assange said. Nearly every Iraqi household has a rifle or an AK. Those guys could have just been protecting their area.”

I don't know all the details about the contractor abuses but that's rarely mentioned by Manning or his supporters. My suspicion is that he did not know about it -it was 'collateral damage' in the documents he stole- but feel free to provide a link that shows otherwise because I can't find one.

Manning should receive a lenient sentence because his intentions were good and he was emotionally unstable. I think that's in the cards from his judge. We'll find out today.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]

[RC]

102. "emotionally unstable" Isn't that the excuse the USSR used to fill the gulags?

Why yes it is.
How dare anyone object to being treated badly just because they were not a member of the ruling class and of having the audacity to say something bad about that ruling class. Why of course they had to be emotionally unstable. Why else would they be acting that way?

[randome]

103. He was widely believed to have gender identity disorder.

He punched his commanding officer.

He was found curled up on the floor in a fetal position after having carved the words 'I want' into a chair with a knife.

If you don't call all that emotionally troubled, what would you call it?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]

[RC]

105. Just plain abused?

Neither you nor I have any idea what he went through. Have you ever been in the military? If not, you can't have any idea of the abuse the upper ranked enlisted and officers can inflict.

[randome]

107. Of course I have no idea. I only know what has been reported and verified.

But I doubt he 'caught' gender identity disorder from someone else. I already said I hope the judge shows him leniency but the fact is he was a mess for whatever reason.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]

[Marr]

127. I hear he had boxes in his garage, too.

[randome]

131. I'm sure I wouldn't know anything about that.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]

[Vanje]

117. Do you have any strong feelings about the war crimes

that Manning revealed?
Anything?

[randome]

120. Soldiers doing their jobs do not constitute war crimes.

What we did in Iraq was abominable. But soldiers who saw armed individuals in a war zone and requested permission to fire are guilty of nothing but being soldiers.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]

[Vanje]

126. I don't think you read the article.

[randome]

130. I believe I gave it more attention than Manning did the hundreds of thousands of documents he stole.

Every time there is a defense of Manning, the only thing he is associated with is that Apache helicopter attack.

Were other things buried in the documents he didn't read? Undoubtedly but they had nothing to do with the reason for his document dump.

And I'm not sure how many of them would be classified as war crimes. The U.S. tried to fudge the numbers on casualties? Is that a war crime? They used poor criteria for arresting someone? Is that a war crime? Contractor abuse? Is that a war crime? I don't believe any of those are but correct me if I'm wrong.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]

[Vanje]

141. Its not illegal.............

[randome]

144. Maybe if Presidents and other politicians were made to serve in war...

...we'd have fewer wars. Like...none.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]

[Marr]

135. I don't think they give a shit.

Well, I'm very generously assuming that's the case, at least. That is to say, I'm assuming they just plunged straight into rationalizing this without bothering to read the article because they don't really give a shit.

The only other possibility is that they read it and don't see a problem with any of that activity, which would just be... disturbing.

[Vanje]

145. I'm disturbed

I'm appalled.
I'm totally creeped out.

I feel sick.

[dflprincess]

134. "Soldiers doing their jobs do not constitute war crimes"

It did at Nuremberg. And just because it's Americans "following orders" now, doesn't mean they're not committing war crimes.

[randome]

137. So you want to throw the hundred thousand or so soldiers who served in Iraq in prison?

I don't think you'll get much support for that idea.

Again, what we did in Iraq is beyond abominable. We have no disagreement there.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]

[dflprincess]

143. One would hope that not every soldier committed war crimes

but any who did should be in prison and none of the "only following orders crap". If it didn't work for the Germans or the Japanese it shouldn't work for Americans.

And I include Bush, Obama and everyone between them and the guards at Abu Gharib who either gave or followed illegal orders.

[randome]

148. Sometimes I think all of us 'let' Iraq happen by not stopping it.

And that we are all to blame. But I don't see any legal framework for what you mention. Mostly because there were 20 or so other countries who cooperated for the shafting of Iraq.

There will be no retribution for what we did under Bush Jr.'s reign. More's the pity.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]

[Vanje]

153. Some of us marched, wrote letters.....

and I bet all of us (here), worked hard on Obama's campaign and voted the Republicans out of the White House.

That Obama is complicit in cover-ups is more than disappointing. Its devastating.

[Vanje]

151. Agreed

I think cover-ups should be punishable too.

[Vanje]

140. Do you approve of the cover-up?

Are you tickled pink by the intentional under reporting of civilian deaths?

[randome]

147. You are making assumptions about me.

I do not in any way, shape or form condone what America did to Iraq. Or any cover-ups that flowed from that debacle.

But statistical cover-ups do not rise to the occasion of 'war crimes', IMO. That's just looking coldly at the facts as I see them.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]

[blackspade]

139. Your quote does not support your opinion about Manning not being a whistleblower.

[randome]

142. No, it's my opinion.

A whistleblower shows evidence of illegality or abuse. The Apache helicopter attack was not illegal since most people -even Assange!- agree the individuals were armed.

A whistleblower also does not steal hundreds of thousands of documents and hand them over to a foreign national like Assange.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]

[blackspade]

164. Then you haven't watched all of the apache footage.

The initial attack was bad enough, but the followup when they killed a civilian rendering aid was horrible and illegal.
Illegal, because the pilots in question lied in order to get clearance to fire.
In the process they shot up a van with children on board.

As for handing documents to a foreign national, he handed them to a journalist, a perfectly acceptable practice for a whisleblower that had been blown off by his home country's M$M.

So sure, it's your opinion, but it is not based on facts, which is how we progressives evaluate things.

[randome]

165. I don't see that the illegality is as clear cut as some maintain.

What did they lie about? I don't see it. Or are you talking about the selectively edited video that Wikileaks first released?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]

[blackspade]

166. I'm talking about the full 40 min or so video.

The first attack was bad enough, but the second on the van was illegal.
First of all, there were no weapons, they were picking up a wounded man.
Second, the vehicle was not a bongo truck, a type of vehicle used by insurgents, but a minivan.

The pilots lied to the ground commander in order to get clearance to shoot. In doing so they killed civilians without cause just because they wanted too.

It was despicable.

[RetroLounge]

149. Puke Post

RL

[HiPointDem]

49. KR

[DirkGently]

51. Total sentence for all of those crimes: 0. But all of this, for revealing them.

[kpete]

55. Bradley Manning Revealed Crimes Far Worse Than the Ones He Supposedly Committed

The lopsided nature of our legal system is well-known to any close observer of American politics. The law is for the powerful to defy with impunity, and for the weak to be punished with.

More info on this here:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-glaser/bradley-manning-revealed-_b_3678734.html

[DirkGently]

63. It's always a sick feeling seeing people so glibly enable that evil. "Traitors" indeed.

[daleanime]

64. K&R....

[KoKo]

65. Recommend.

[Civilization2]

70. The empire IS evil, the corporate-military the 1% banksters have built is an evil empire..,

it really is becoming clear, that the people running the show are evil and have no redeeming qualities, we must now take the power back or just sit back and watch as they spiral out of control. They corrupt society and culture with they actions and through their media,. they abuse people the world over, and they profit by doing so!

Choose love or fear,. it is an easy choice.

Free Bradley Manning

[Martin Eden]

71. There is a CANCER on the SOUL of AMERICA

CANCER can't be cured unless it is discovered and ACTED UPON.

Bradley Manning performed a GREAT SERVICE for AMERICA.

NOW it is UP TO US to ACT!

[Angelonthesidelines]

73. America HAS BECOME the USSR

We used to wear the white hats.
http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2013/07/24/role-reversal-how-the-us-became-the-ussr/
Now we have jackboots and secret laws.
http://www.thiscantbehappening.net/node/1888

[Dorn]

76. No, it is becoming Oceania

The USSR was much worse than current USA, however, we are well on our way to 1984's Oceania.

[MrMickeysMom]

152. That's about as good a way to put it, Dorn...

I can't believe that anyone is more concerned with the method of Manning's revelation, than the revelation itself, for fuck's sake.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

87. K&R

[truedelphi]

92. And why is that cabal of scorpions so free to take their book tours

And collect 5 and 6 digit speaking fees, plus all those scorpions who don't need to write books or give speeches because the companies they participate in, like Cheney and Halliburton, or Richard Blum's contracting company, made tens of millions of dollars off the Iraq War and they now look forward to lives of luxury, while Manning will have only a jail cell?

Answer: because those scorpions have the power to make the perverse and corrupted policies legal, despite their immorality, and they need the cover of darkness. Without penalizing whistleblowers, then the newly awakened citizens might use the leaked info to see that there can no longer be "business as bloody usual" inside the Beltway.

Somehow we can put Manning into jail for LIFE, while Senator Di Feinstein's perverted code of Senate Ethics allows a nation to be lied into war, and allows for Senators to vote for that war, and then that Senator can turn around and enable their spouses to make over 750 millions of dollars in war contracts during the next ten years.

And if anyone on DU thinks that Di Feinstein serves on the Senate Intelligence committee for the good of the nation, rather than as a way for her spouse to further enrich them with Surveillance Contracts, I have an oyster farm in Western Marin I can sell them.

(And please, realize that answering this with an "outraged" "You pick on Feinstein because she is a woman" nonsense will get only a smirk from me as response. Having a vagina does not allow a person to condemn over 6,000 US service people to death, along with a million Iraqi civilians, so that you and your husband can have a pretty 16 million dollar home in The Presidio with a "View to die for."

[catchnrelease]

108. I agree whole heartedly with every word you said here

And I'm a woman. Feinstein admitted that if she were to follow the wishes of her constituents she would have voted against the Iraq War Resolution. But she claimed in her form letter response to those of us who begged her to vote against it, that she had access to secret intelligence that convinced her to vote for it. I'll bet she did. I'll bet that intelligence came from a source very close to home.

[Rex]

94. As soon as I saw the pictures coming out of Abu Grab

prison, I KNEW we would be whitewashing and covering up one of the biggest, modern, crimes against humanity - since Saddam became dictator of that nation.

[truth2power]

95. Our government isn't keeping anyone safe. Nor do they want to...

WE are the enemy. The Obama Administration is only interested in keeping the American people from finding out what filthy, horrific activities they're engaging in.

"CABAL OF SCORPIONS", indeed!

[Harmony Blue]

98. That is probably the tip of the iceberg revealed

a transparent democracy no long functions if it withers in the presence of light(truth).

[Vanje]

110. The Obama administration is deep in these crimes.

....and we can't really blame the Republicans in congress, Can we.

[Agony]

163. I ALWAYS blame the Repuglicans in congress...

That's one of the sure bets in this universe.

OTOH, President Obama clearly has unclean hands in this matter.

Cheers,
Agony

[AnotherMcIntosh]

155. If Obama only knew, surely he would do something. Why don't his aides tell him?

[blkmusclmachine]

156. Like Obama's 30,000 armed Drones flying the US skies by 2020, they're protecting the 1% from the 99%

No change.

[GiaGiovanni]

173. "The State Department authorized the theft of the UN Secretary General's DNA. "

Well, I think we all figured that, but it was nice to have proof.