Why DU has a "Creative Speculation" forum

[Scuba]

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=moon-landing-faked-why-people-believe-conspiracy-theories

Moon Landing Faked!!!—Why People Believe in Conspiracy Theories

In the book “The Empire of Conspiracy,” Timothy Melley explains that conspiracy theories have traditionally been regarded by many social scientists as “the implausible visions of a lunatic fringe,” often inspired by what the late historian Richard Hofstadter described as “the paranoid style of American politics.” Influenced by this view, many scholars have come to think of conspiracy theories as paranoid and delusional, and for a long time psychologists have had little to contribute other than to affirm the psychopathological nature of conspiracy thinking, given that conspiricist delusions are commonly associated with (schizotype) paranoia.

Yet, such pathological explanations have proven to be widely insufficient because conspiracy theories are not just the implausible visions of a paranoid minority. For example, a national poll released just this month reports that 37 percent of Americans believe that global warming is a hoax, 21 percent think that the US government is covering up evidence of alien existence and 28 percent believe a secret elite power with a globalist agenda is conspiring to rule the world. Only hours after the recent Boston marathon bombing, numerous conspiracy theories were floated ranging from a possible ‘inside job’ to YouTube videos claiming that the entire event was a hoax.

So why is it that so many people come to believe in conspiracy theories? They can't all be paranoid schizophrenics. New studies are providing some eye-opening insights and potential explanations.

For example, while it has been known for some time that people who believe in one conspiracy theory are also likely to believe in other conspiracy theories, we would expect contradictory conspiracy theories to be negatively correlated. Yet, this is not what psychologists Micheal Wood, Karen Douglas and Robbie Suton found in a recent study. Instead, the research team, based at the University of Kent in England, found that many participants believed in contradictory conspiracy theories. For example, the conspiracy-belief that Osama Bin Laden is still alive was positively correlated with the conspiracy-belief that he was already dead before the military raid took place. This makes little sense, logically: Bin Laden cannot be both dead and alive at the same time. An important conclusion that the authors draw from their analysis is that people don't tend to believe in a conspiracy theory because of the specifics, but rather because of higher-order beliefs that support conspiracy-like thinking more generally. A popular example of such higher-order beliefs is a severe “distrust of authority.” The authors go on to suggest that conspiracism is therefore not just about belief in an individual theory, but rather an ideological lens through which we view the world. A good case in point is Alex Jones’s recent commentary on the Boston bombings. Jones, (one of the country’s preeminent conspiracy theorists) reminded his audience that two of the hijacked planes on 9/11 flew out of Boston (relating one conspiracy theory to another) and moreover, that the Boston Marathon bombing could be a response to the sudden drop in the price of gold or part of a secret government plot to expand the Transportation Security Administration’s reach to sporting events. Others have pointed their fingers to a ‘mystery man’ spotted on a nearby roof shortly after the explosions. While it remains unsure whether or not credence is given to only some or all of these (note: contradicting) conspiracy theories, there clearly is a larger underlying preference to support conspiracy-type explanations more generally.

[geek tragedy]

1. The original Birther was also a 911 Truther. nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. Oh com'on we got a global elite (check)

Who is run by lizard people (aliens), for the sake of the one book (a cookbook)

Bonus points if you get the movie reference.

[leveymg]

77. It was TV. But, who's quibbling. Lots of pin the tail on the CT in recent days here.

And that's the truth, ma'me. Gotta think that the doubts cast by the Boston Bomber/FBI/CIA/FSB revelations on US support for covert operations in Chechnya and Dagestan hit a little too close to home for some people.

[graham4anything]

3. Yup. Conspiracy theorists are like a cult a very, very dangerous one as they are deniers.

Some actually say the Holocaust and Conn. School shooting and Boston did not happen.
And I guess the WTC is still standing and it's just a mass illusion.
It is nuts.

btw, the same people think government is so inept, yet same government they say is so stupid, would be able to have this.

btw, we all came from the same great Ape, therefore it is a conspiracy theory because we are all connected.

[djean111]

4. Don't really care for the term "conspiracy theory". It is a pejorative label, meant to belittle.

Why not say "alternate explanation"?
In any event, why do some people get all bent out of shape about "conspiracy theories"?
Belief or non-belief doesn't change a thing - kind of thought-police-y somehow.
But then again, I have not a clue why religious folk spend any time at all fussing about what we atheists don't believe.
Weird waste of time. Especially the huffy religious people. Or the folks who get all mean and sarcastic about truthers. What does it matter?

[octothorpe]

11. Why do people care?

Because often times CTers post their opinions on blog/videos/whatever looking for responses. Often times when you try to have a discussion with them, they take get irrational and call you stupid for not seeing the truth. At least that has been my experiences with it. I have no problems when alternate explanations when they are based on something and when those throwing them out there are willing to have a discussion about it without claiming I'm either working for the conspiracy or that I'm too stupid of a sheep to see what's going on.

Also, if those people don't want people to question or discuss their theories, then they shouldn't put them out there.

[brooklynite]

69. Would you prefer "a responsible opposing viewpoint"?

[Progressive dog]

5. The next question is, is this curable

or is there a pill they can take?

[Skittles]

6. you want I should kick some creative speculating ass, Scuba?

LET ME IN THERE!!!

[longship]

7. That's precisely what they want you to think!!!

They are all part of the alien, men-in-black, lizard, 9-11 terror, Illuminati, Big Foot hiding, NASA/CIA, lizard overlords.

Just ask David Icke and Alex Jones. They don't call them grand conspiracies for nothing!

The lizard people are living under my bed..... Arrrrrgh!!!!!!

[djean111]

9. I keep reading this as izzard people - and thinking Cool! :-)

[JustAnotherGen]

62. Gaaaah

David Icke is Icky. And I've actually read one of his books - the one that posits that he Clintons are shape shifters that were in on the plot to kill Princess Diana.

[pinto]

8. I would add main stream media's growing foray into speculation as "news".

Journalistic standards have gone out the window in many instances. Being first in the wired, wired media world has seemingly replaced accuracy and accountability.

[OnyxCollie]

10. If conspiracies don't exist, why are there laws prohibiting them?

Sunstein and Vermeule (2008) describe “an effort to explain some event or practice by
reference to the machinations of powerful people, who have managed to conceal their role” (p. 4)
as a conspiracy theory, a pejorative term which denotes a faulty epistemology, rumors, and
speculation. Furthermore, it is asserted that such analysis overestimates the ability of government
bureaucracies to carry out “sophisticated and secret” (p. 6) plans in an open society. Alternately,
Parenti (2010) quoting Karp (1973) suggested that:

When it can be established that when a number of political acts work in concert to
produce a certain result, the presumption is strong that the actors were aiming at the result
in question. When it can be shown that the actors have an interest in producing these
results, the presumptions become a fair certainty- no conspiracy theory is needed.

Sunstein and Vermeule (2008) assume a well-intentioned government may decide to
defuse conspiracy theories “if and only if social welfare is improved by doing so” (p. 15), yet
they concede that governments themselves may be purveyors of conspiracy theories. Parenti
(1993) suggested the beneficiaries of said social welfare may be an entire class interest.
Following this reasoning, conspiracy theories may be eliminated to prevent exposure of
particular factions, or they may be furnished to enable a certain objective. According to Parenti
(2010), the term conspiracy theory can be used to dismiss: “(1) the idea of a conscious design by
policy makers; (2) a hidden, but knowing intent; (3) a secret plan; (4) a secret interest.”

[KoKo]

12. Very interesting...Thanks for the post...A link would be helpful, though.

because it looks like research which would give creds to why "Alternative Theories" should be given some looks when one is involved in complicated investigations.

[OnyxCollie]

13. No link.

It's from my Master's thesis on the internment of the Japanese.

You can listen to the Michael Parenti lectures here:
http://www.tucradio.org/parenti.html

Octafish turned me on to Michael Parenti/TUC Radio. I highly recommend it.

[KoKo]

15. Oh...yes...I've listened to Parenti...so I can understand now what you are saying...and

saw that you mentioned him in your post...so thought there was a link. But, thanks...I think some more might want to know about him...but, given the way things are going..it's just some of us for now.

He's worth a watch if one is interested. So thanks for that link.

[Festivito]

20. Exactly. And, such a fun follow-up.

"assume a well-intentioned government," i.e., assume we have, what, a perfect democracy.

Pockets of well-intentioned might defuse some conspiracy theories. What about some certainly bad persons in an imperfect democracy. What could they be doing?

It becomes more likely that persons pushing anti-conspiracy-theories are themselves conspirators attempting to hide their own actions by discrediting even the idea that they might be doing what they really are doing.

[G_j]

36. "they concede that governments themselves may be purveyors of conspiracy theories

perfect.. it's simply PR/spin/lies, and that's no CT. That's what they do.

[Vincardog]

14. Does anyone think the existence of elected "leaders" who believe it is: OK to LIE us into war,

trade guns for drugs to fund illegal wars,
murder other elected official,
overthrow governments,
while propagandizing us blatantly;
Could have anything to do with it?

[choie]

58. and what about non-governmental conspiracies...

Many Duers think very highly of Smedley Butler - didn't he testify in the '30s that there was a group of people, which included Dupont and Prescott Bush, who had contacted him to help them overthrow FDR? Wasn't that a conspiracy?

[Vincardog]

67. Yes it was. Where was his son when JFK bit it? Wasn't it his grandson who lied us into Iraq?

I detect a trend developing.

[OnyxCollie]

70. Here's another trend.

According to Personal Justice Denied, California Attorney General Earl Warren was responsible for providing racist rhetoric to Lt. General DeWitt, (allegedly) prompting his racist decision to intern the Japanese population on the West Coast. (What is ignored is the large profits farm corporations made from the internment of the Japanese, the majority of whom were farm workers.)

Earl Warren would become Chief Justice of the SCOTUS, and would later chair the Warren Commission, tasked with investigating the JFK assassination.

2. Rumors and speculation. Of course it is necessary to specify how, exactly,
conspiracy theories begin.. Some such theories seem to bubble up spontaneously,
appearing roughly simultaneously in many different social networks; others are initiated
and spread, quite intentionally, by conspiracy entrepreneurs who profit directly or
indirectly from propagating their theories. An example in the latter category is the
French author Thierry Meyssan, whose book “9/11: The Big Lie” became a bestseller and
a sensation for its claims that the Pentagon explosion on 9/11 was caused by a missile,
fired as the opening salvo of a coup d’etat by the military-industrial complex, rather than
by American Airlines Flight 77. Some conspiracy entrepreneurs are entirely sincere;
others are interested in money or power, or in achieving some general social goal. Still,
even for conspiracy theories put about by conspiracy entrepreneurs, the key question is
why some theories take hold while many more do not, and vanish into obscurity.

Sunstein, C. R. & Vermeule, A. (2008). Conspiracy theories. Harvard Public Law Working Paper No. 08-03; U of Chicago, Public Law Working Paper No. 199; U of Chicago Law & Economics, Olin Working Paper No. 387.

[Quantess]

16. Try wagging your finger a little less. How about, instead,

seeing some of the links and OPs posted in Creative Speculation Forum as being just fun diversions? That's all it is for me, in any case.

I enjoy alien stories before I go to sleep. What's wrong with that?

[H2O Man]

17. silly

[MellowYellow]

18. What about all the Conspiracy Theories That Turned Out to be True? There were many

*****The Most Shocking Conspiracy Theories That Turned Out to be True*****
June 16, 2010 by Eric deCarbonnel
Sixwise reports on The Most Shocking Conspiracy Theories That Turned Out to be True.

…
While intelligent cynicism certainly can be healthy, though, some of the greatest discoveries of all time were initially received (often with great vitriol) as blasphemous conspiracy theories -- think of the revelation that the earth was not the center of the universe, or that the world was not flat but actually round.

What follows are some of these most shocking modern conspiracy theories that were apparently right all along.

…
MK-ULTRA: In the 1950s to the 1970s, the CIA ran a mind-control project aimed at finding a "truth serum" to use on communist spies. Test subjects were given LSD and other drugs, often without consent, and some were tortured. At least one man, civilian biochemist Frank Olson, who was working for the government, died as a result of the experiments. The project was finally exposed after investigations by the Rockefeller Commission.

[For more, see Google archive news results for "MK-ULTRA" ]

Operation Mockingbird: Also in the 1950s to '70s, the CIA paid a number of well-known domestic and foreign journalists (from big-name media outlets like Time, The Washington Post, The New York Times, CBS and others) to publish CIA propaganda. The CIA also reportedly funded at least one movie, the animated "Animal Farm," by George Orwell. The Church Committee finally exposed the activities in 1975.

[For more, see Google archive news results for " "Church Committee" CIA covert media " ]

Watergate: Republican officials spied on the Democratic National Headquarters from the Watergate Hotel in 1972. While conspiracy theories suggested underhanded dealings were taking place, it wasn't until 1974 that White House tape recordings linked President Nixon to the break-in and forced him to resign.

[For more, see Google archive news results for " Watergate" ]

The Tuskegee Syphilis Study: The United States Public Health Service carried out this clinical study on 400 poor, African-American men with syphilis from 1932 to 1972. During the study the men were given false and sometimes dangerous treatments, and adequate treatment was intentionally withheld so the agency could learn more about the disease. While the study was initially supposed to last just six months, it continued for 40 years. Close to 200 of the men died from syphilis or related complications by the end of the study.

[For more, see Google archive news results for "Tuskegee Syphilis Study" ]

Read the rest here

It takes an open mind to see the truth.

[Rex]

72. Fringe groups, like people that pretend conspiracies don't exist.

Are just as bad as Truther and Birthers. Their hatred for the unexplained borders on pathological. Kinda like the very fringe groups they hate so much.

Watch out for both extremes.

[Skip Intro]

19. DU was born of a conspiracy theory.

That the 2000 election was stolen.

I first found DU searching for others who felt as I did that that election was stolen.

After 9*11 DU was a forest of MIHOP and LIHOP and all sorts of "truther" posts.

This segregation and ridicule of those who question what they're being told about recent events is something that is relatively new here.

[KoKo]

65. "Alternative Theories" to MSM reporting seem to now be considered "CT"

Inquiring Minds and those who like collecting information from various sources to reach a conclusion are considered "fringe."

The need for Partisan Political Advocacy seemed to be when the change occurred here on this "Discussion Board."

Well...whatever.

[Bonobo]

21. An international cabal conspiring to manipulate the world economy...

This too was a conspiracy theory...until it wasn't.

[Electric Monk]

22. Here are some links for the sensible woodchucks

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022776671
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022774438

[Bonobo]

23. Sensible Wood Schmucks? nt

[graham4anything]

24. Yawn. In the end, conspiracy theories are intellectually lazy and boring. Like witchhunts in Salem.

conspiracy theorists were around in the Holocaust, saying it never happened
Saying those tens of millions didn't die.
And continuing today they say CONN and Boston didn't happen.


the sky is falling the sky is falling but the WTC still is standing and 9-11 didn't happen
gmafb

they said Bush wouldn't leave in Jan. 2009, oops, like all the others, the helicopter came and Bush waved and hasn't been back (though conspiracy theoriest would love Jeb to come back so they can say another election was stolen.

oh the waste of billions on witchhunts like they did to Bill and Hillary for 8 years.
Yet the same conspiracy theorists want people who did far worse sexually to come back(like Spitzer and Weiner and Sanford). Billions of dollars and time wasted trying to railroad Bill Clinton (and look how it backfired as Hillary will be President in 2017.) But of course they will try and try again.

so intellectually boring and lazy.Just like Ralph Nader is/was and other like him and David Duke.

Hey, Dennis Kucinich saw UFOs and now works with Ron Paul, who sees 1855 being the norm.

all such mega wastes of time. Life is short and conspiracy theorists waste it.

Calling Oiry Taitz, calling orly Taitz and Sheriff Joe

[Bonobo]

25. You are saying that more than 20 million died in the Holocaust? nt

[graham4anything]

26. 6 million Jews & tens of millions of non-Jews. Oh wait, the Holocaust never happened cters say

[Bonobo]

27. Your numbers are fucked up.

Unless the Holocaust has now been used as a word to replace WW2.

[Electric Monk]

31. In your world view, CTers are an homogenous group? Talk about a conspiracy theory! Wow! nt

[graham4anything]

29. BTW, the guy in Invasion of Body Snatchers was very ill and a conspiracy theorist

It was just a silly movie (the old black and white one,the later one was gooey and violent and all). He should have been locked up and given a sedative so he could have gotten some sleep. The only place there were pods were in his mind. I bet today they could have cured what he had and he could have gone on to a rewarding life.

People always misinterpreted movies too. Another what's his name, that Ron Howard made a movie of, who saw numbers in potato chips and toilet paper or something like that

it's only a movie. repeat-it's only a movie.

pods don't exist. neither do manchurians. and the rat pack is dead, of old age and excess and disease (and conspiracy theorists like quackwakefiled don't want people to get vaccines so people are dying from cancer because they don't want their daughters and now sons to get the gardasil vaccination that can cure it. Conspiracy theories kill.

Zimmy in Florida was a conspiracy theorist too. May he rot in jail for the rest of his life.

[Bonobo]

30. What the FuCK are you TALKING about? nt

[graham4anything]

32. If everything is connected as CTers say, then you are me

[Electric Monk]

33. Congrats on totally missing the point about taking the official stories with a grain of salt

and thinking critically for yourself.

Google "Occam's razor" and meditate on that for awhile.

[graham4anything]

35. already know what it is. Google the serenity thingy. especially the third sentence.

[Electric Monk]

37. The wisdom to know the difference? Are you saying you do this on purpose? Get a better hobby.

[graham4anything]

41. Conspiracy theories are only as good as the person telling them-like magic,logic soon prevails

If you believe, then they are true
when the spell is broken, you see they are a waste of time and life is just a short time.

Hindsight makes everything clear that stories put out there benefit someone, and the best way to insure a conspiracy theory isn't going to happen is to not vote for that one person who is benefited from a conspiracy theory time and again

circles.

dog chasing tail, chases dog, chases tail, chases dog

it is 100% inane, to go round in circles and hindsight shows its nothing but dirty tricks to achieve a goal and no conspiracy theory at all.

Don't like the Bush family? Then why vote for Jeb in 2016? Anything not for the democratic party leads to Jeb and the Bush family.
All those conspiracy theories created fracture and nothing will ever come of them.
So the wisdom is knowing best not to do what will get the family back.

I used to be a believer in someone who said conspiracy theories.
and damn if it wasn't convincing. Til the spell broke. Til the breadcrumbs dropped no longer made logical sense.It was like watching a magician.But there are no conspiracy theories in magic, always a logical explanation that the mind only sees when told.


The CTers had a field day with Bush-
Til the helicopter took W away from DC never to return in 2009, January.
all those conspiracy theories said the election would be cancelled, Bush would stay.
Just like everytime in the past, the living president left to become an ex-President and a new president took their place.

Best not to waste ones life on breadcrumbs and 48 big gulps with 780 calories in it.
(especially fried breadcrumbs as they are fattening and wellness is in.)

[Electric Monk]

45. Standard oil, first, and then the Business plot (including Prescott Bush)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler

re: "Best not to waste ones life on breadcrumbs" Try sticking to facts.

[graham4anything]

54. And? Nothing comes of it but 41 W and Jeb.

Nixon was smart enough not to let 41 be VP.
Ford was smart enough not to let 41 be VP
yet democratic voters (including Elizabeth Warren) voted and helped elect Reagan/Bush41 to office.

The inanity of it all.

It's not conspiracy. It's choice. Sure it's legal to vote 3rd party or not to vote.

If every single conspiracy theory helps the Bush family and all

then not seeing that fracture will lead to the Bush family coming back either means the person not seeing it wants that outcome, or profits from that outcome like Nader and the media and everyone else who wants it to always be 50-50 instead of 80-20 like it used to be, no matter who was President.

Even in the most wildest reasons for Watergate, if one thinks Nixon did it, none of it was needed because he was assured reelection in 1972.
All Watergate accomplished at the end of the day was getting the Bush's into power and they continue because of fracture. It wasn't worth it. Nixon should have just stayed and limped out a few years later. Nothing good came from it.

yet, people will delve on with conspiracy theories, and mantras and elect Jeb Bush.

and they call W stupid.

Mr. Spock would just say it isn't logical. People create their own problems. Then whine when the problems they created make the logical things happen they don't like.

Everyone should have voted for Adlai. Guess he was an egghead and ugly and boring.
Or something trivial. Guess Ike's bald head covered with a hat or helmet looked better than Adlai's bald head

and if you think America is going to prosecute 41, when he dies, there will be 2 weeks of Sainthood for him. And the protests against the Bush's will lead to sympathy votes for Jeb.
Jeb who is now statistically tied for the 2016 republican nomination.

Simple and logical. Don't let Jeb become President. Or let him.

[Electric Monk]

55. Wow, you are incredible, in every sense of the word. nt

[Bonobo]

34. Well I do feel strangely connected to MOST fellow Jews.

You and Joe Lieberman are the exception.

[graham4anything]

38. But everyone is connected. So you and Joe are one. CTers and 6 degrees of connectivity

and every single Jewish person I know loves Barack Obama and Hillary and Bill Clinton.
and yes, I am Jewish.
My two Grandparents from Austria who haven't been here since Jimmy was President, both would have loved the three of them. But that is no conspiracy theory, just the truth,
something not found in conspiracy theories.

btw, Watergate was a robbery, a simple crime to oust Richard Nixon. And it worked.
There was no conspiracy or conspiracy theory. It was just a simple robbery of a person who had an illness that now could have been cured. In reality, America would have been better off had he limped to the finish line and left in Jan.1977 in a helicopter.
ct's. one can go on and on and on.

[Electric Monk]

39. You need beer and travel money. We get it. nt.

[Bonobo]

53. Oh wow. Look.

RandomThoughts (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
1. Translating "don't touch the butt" one possible meaning.
It could be just the McCain photo, But then why always have cat pictures? It could be some silly joke? Or it could be something else. Especially since ideas that go against the self claimed 'in group', are called things that come out of 'the butt' by them. Expelling of foul gases or ideas as they see them, is encoded as crap. Remember the joke about not stepping in it. Same thing. Its part of established code, and been around for along time.

I see that saying in many places.

It reminds me of a few things.

The term 'prison' not the real prisons, but the metaphorical ones that are used for control.

You see if you can get a group that has influence over news, Tv, or other sources of communication. To agree on something. You can sudo imprison a thought. If everyone agrees to not allow an idea to be discussed or shown to people, they imprison that Idea.

This can be done as a form of blacklisting, letting people in the know, know that if they do discuss certain things they will be thrown out of the so called in group. This is the power of the few, fear of not belonging from those who claim power.

Other methods are used also. People with opposite views that have similar attributes are propped up to allow a filtered message to go through. So a person can be created just so that all the people in the know, can see that they represent the original person, but the message can be filtered, with the real message only being seen in code.

Spamming can be used to run messages off boards, people can state they don't want to hear a certain name anywhere, lots of stuff gets done.

Same thing has been done for ages. It usually follows, 'all bite the dog bitten', when that fails, many times a component of fear is even used, since the threat of not being in a group worries some. But who would want to be in a group that tells you what you can discuss and think on. Basically the whole system hinges on being able to discuss things in the open, yet above the heads of most people by wrapping them in code.

you can see these things spoken of all the time. It is the method the few use to try and maintain control and power.

This thought system, the one that wishes to control ideas, creates some of my worst temptations. When I think on one possible interpretation of your post. I have to stay focused on the good things in life to not rise the temptation to be something I do not want to be.

So instead of just doing as you advise, I will ask you,
what do you consider 'the butt'?
why do you call it that name and use negative images to describe it?
What do you fear?

And of coarse no answer might be an answer. But a low level plausible disability answer is usually what is returned if 'don't touch the butt' is encoded.

My temptation is the knowledge of the ability of the total removal of all power from those that choose to restrain the free exchange of thoughts and ideas. Why is it a temptation? because it would make me just like them, so I let them do as they want, and be what they choose to be. And I side step that knowledge by just trusting in God.

[Bonobo]

40. There was, by definition, a conspiracy surrounding Watergate break-ins.

If you are incapable of understanding that, my opinion is that you are either a joker or a person of incredibly low intellect.

con·spir·a·cy (kn-spîr-s)
n. pl. con·spir·a·cies
1. An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act.
2. A group of conspirators.
3. Law An agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime or accomplish a legal purpose through illegal action.
4. A joining or acting together, as if by sinister design: a conspiracy of wind and tide that devastated coastal areas.

[graham4anything]

42. By that definition, the two thrillkillfameseekers were a conspiracy too.

I just refer to them as the two thrillkillfameseekers and criminals.

A manager signals the batter to take 4 pitches and he gets to first base on a walk
The 1st base coach pats him on the ass and whispers to the runner
The pitcher winds up
The manager signals for the runner to steal
The runner steals 2nd
It's a theft and a conspiracy, right?
After all, 4 different people were in on it

[Bonobo]

44. If only we could just rewrite the meanings of words as we want, eh?

Baseball is a game. Still with me?

A conspiracy is a crime for which their is collusion involving a number of parties to hide it. Such collusion usually involves force applied from a position of power.

Still with me? Stay focused.

THAT is what a conspiracy is. And it is called a "conspiracy theory" up until the point that it is uncovered and made public.

SOME theories wind up being wrong. In fact, that is why they are called theories.

Hang on, stay focused, we are ALMOST there!

You cannot disprove or discount a theory simply BECAUSE you label it a "conspiracy theory". If you were NOT intellectually lazy and language challenged, you might point out that it is a BAD theory, or a silly theory or a theory with no evidence.

BUT simply saying "conspiracy theory" is meaningless, especially since you have shown that you do not understand what "conspiracy" means and instead willfully apply your own senseless and vapid opinions about what constitutes one.

[Electric Monk]

48. I'm starting to think they really do know better, but they're just trolling for fun. It's a game. nt

[Bonobo]

49. So you think the brain-dead, rambling mutterings are a put-on? nt

[Electric Monk]

51. I suspect that it could be... :shrug: This is the internet, after all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law

[Fumesucker]

52. It's an AI, Artificial Inanity n/t

[graham4anything]

56. conspiracy theory is a waste of time. talking about them is talk. NOTHING will come of it.

nothing coming of it= it was a waste of time.

The ACLU got the Bush's off of Iran/Contra.
Yes, there job sometimes entails nasty people getting off.
With that happening, no amount of whine can go back.
but that is not a conspiracy theory.

Dirty politics is politics.

A winner does what a loser won't.

So win and be seated and don't let the bad person get seated.

Nader=W seated. Nothing else matters.

Maybe instead of whining about what might have been or wasn't, having this Presidents back and moving forward will actually accomplish something, those supporters that actually want to accomplish will like. Of course, if one doesn't support it, then whining about what might have been and wasn't is indeed the way to go.
As there are only 2 sides to the conundrum, it is either/or.

there is republican there is democratic.
instead of whining for something else winning, an adult deals with what is there.
Pick one. Those are the only answers available on the quiz.

[Bonobo]

57. If you want stuff you write to be read.

Try writing with logical connections between your "sentences".

I am being serious when I say that I rarely read more than two of what you optimistically call "sentences".

[Electric Monk]

47. If 4 people were in on it then yes, it was a conspiracy. Why are you trying to pretend otherwise?

[graham4anything]

59. So, the WTC is still standing? A magician was paid to do some sort of trick?

[progressoid]

82. Heh. I keep seeing staments like your in response to his posts!

Most threads would be better off if the nonsensical arguments of graham were ignored. He seems to enjoy the attention.

[HiPointDem]

28. the holocaust was a conspiracy.

[krispos42]

64. I don't necessarily think it's a conspiracy...

...or rather, that it doesn't NEED to be a conspiracy.


The cream of the cream of the cream of the capitalists are all cut from the same cloth and driven by the same desires and are all psychopaths. By default they're all going to behave in a similar fashion regarding government and elections and international borders and stuff, even if they're competing with each other.

Several lions will all move towards a herd of zebras, even if they're rivals and independent from each other.

[gordianot]

43. Here are my conspiracy theories regarding a certain political party in the United States.

1. They have one message when campaigning but among their wealthy donors, whom they represent, they have a very different message.

2. They have an orchestrated program in State legislatures to suppress voters and votes among groups who historically do not vote for them by requiring voter id, limiting polling sites, discourage voter registration, fixing elections and making it difficult to vote.

3. They systematically lie about wars, events, and legislation sponsored by another political party.

4. They have secret meetings to oppose programs and legislation even when the programs and legislation originated in their party.

5. They regularly commit the illegal acts they accuse others of violating.

6. Their dream is to dictate legislation and policy as a one party

I have much more however it is getting late.

[AverageJoe90]

46. Yep.

Oh, and here's another reason why: Climate doomerism.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/112741673

http://www.democraticunderground.com/112739583

http://guymcpherson.com/2013/01/climate-change-summary-and-update/

http://guymcpherson.com/2013/04/the-irreconcilable-acceptance-of-near-term-extinction/

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2011/01/13/207334/science-kiehl-ncar-paleoclimate-lessons-from-earths-hot-past/

And that is just a SMALL sample, ladies and gentlemen. You think the chemtrails or "missiles hit the WTC on 9/11" shit was loony? It was, but this is even worse(and unfortunately, there are a fair number of people on here who seem to unquestioningly accept this fringe B.S. just as right-wing nutters accept Birtherism & every other neo-Red Scare fearmongering piece, and plenty of other shite from guys like Glenn Dreck, Joseph FAIL-ah(Farah), and of course, Mr. Blimpbaugh himself).

[G_j]

50. because it is used in a derogatory way, the term

should be used very carefully, if it all. It's far too easy to use language to dismiss ideas.
It's become some sort of cultural meme I suppose, but to label something a conspiracy theory is to dismiss and ridicule
something in two words. Who chooses
what speculations get to wear that label?

I guess my point is, be discriminating how you use language. Labels can be used in many unproductive ways. Decide to call something a CT, next it gets lumped in with Alex Jones and reptiles.
Does anyone think Monsanto isn't a conspiracy in itself? They would love it if their critics were thought of as kooks.

[Jake Izzy]

60. Shocker! Person puts all conspiracy theories in the same basket

You started with "Moon landing hoax" instead of the plausible "Kennedy assassination conspiracy" for a reason.

You don't want to start off with a conspiracy theory that Robert F. Kennedy and Al Gore believe in, do you?

[Scuba]

61. Please note that I am not the author of the article.

[Bobbie Jo]

63. Honestly, this place looks more

like infowars every day. It's downright embarrassing.

[FSogol]

66. Yup, very sad. n/t

[AverageJoe90]

86. Or your average New Age repository in other areas.

If you ever stay at E & E for more than a little while you'll know what I'm talking about; even with the good stuff that does appears the climate doomers will eventually slobber all over it with their nuttiness, their highly irrational particular brand of pessimism(meaning, they'll jump on any bad news no matter how erroneous or full of crap it is), and, if you can challenge them, holier-than-thou snobbery. Hell, some of the things I've heard from climate doomers make InfoWars seem almost sane, in comparison!

[OnyxCollie]

68. Tell me if you've heard this one before.

Deviations from rationality which are not the result of the personal
whim or the personal psychopathology of the policy maker may appear
contingent only from the vantage point of rationality, but may themselves
be elements in a coherent system of irrationality. The conduct of the
Indochina War by the United States suggests that possibility. It is aquestion
worth looking into whether modern psychology and psychiatry have
provided us with 'the conceptual tools which would enable us to construct,
as it were, a counter-theory of irrational politics, a kind of pathology of
international politics.

The experience of the Indochina War suggests five factors such a theory
might encompass: the imposition upon the empirical world of a simplistic
and a priori picture of the world derived from folklore and ideological
assumption, that is, the replacement of experience with superstition; the
refusal to correct this picture of the world in the light of experience; the
persistence in a foreign policy derived from the misperception of reality
and the use of intelligence for the purpose not of adapting policy to reality
but of reinterpreting reality to fit policy; the egotism of the policy makers
widening the gap between perception and policy, on the one hand, and
reality, on the other; finally, the urge to close the gap at least subjectively
by action, any kind of action, that creates the illusion of mastery over a
recalcitrant reality. According to the Wall Slreet Journal of April 3, 1970,
"the desire to 'do something' pervades top levels of Government and may
overpower other'common sense' advice that insists the U.S. ability to
shape events is negligible. The yen for action could lead to bold policy as
therapy."

Morgenthau, H. (1948). Politics among nations: The struggle for power and peace (pp. 7, 8). New York: Knopf.

According to Parenti (1993), “Much of politics is the rational manipulation of irrational symbols.”

[Scuba]

74. Makes Reagan's astrologer look rational by comparison.

[OnyxCollie]

75. It reminds me of the Iraq War propaganda.

Fixing reality to fit the policy.

[MadHound]

71. Love how all conspiracies are lumped into a single group for ridicule,

Never mind the fact that there have been conspiracies that have been proven true, even admitted to. Conspiracies such as COINTELPRO, MK-ULTRA, Iran Contra, Watergate, and on and on. Never mind that politicians and businessmen engage in conspiracies every single day in order to advance their careers or reap profit. Nope, pay no attention to any of that because apparently the meme of the month is that there are no conspiracies and anybody who believes in them is a crazy loon, better yet, a RW crazy loon.

[Rex]

73. Fringe groups. They want people to believe that conspiracies don't exist.

Thereby causing a conspiracy! They are just as ill informed or crazy as the fringe group they hate.

One side believes the moon was bombed by the FBI, while the other says no one ever commits a conspiracy. Both are as bad as Birthers and Truthers imo.

[MadHound]

76. Oh, I think there is a group that is a happy medium,

Such as the majority of Americans who to this day don't believe the official story of the Kennedy assassination, for good reason. But it is articles and screeds like the OP that are trying to lump those who reasonably believe there are some conspiracies into the rest of the fringe and discredit all of them.

[Rex]

78. They are the fringe...they might as well believe there are only 100 stars in the sky.

IMO, they are as crazy as what they hate the most.

[MadHound]

79. So you're saying that the majority of Americans who don't accept the official story

Of the Kennedy administration are fringe? Or am I misunderstanding your last post(entirely possible)?

[Rex]

80. No I agree with you that the majority of Americans question the official story

to a lot of things and not just about our government exclusively. No, I am saying that those out there that want to believe in no conspiracies are as crazy as the craziest CTs saying the moon is made out of cheese by Kraft powder.

To pretend that something that falls easily into the parameters of human behavior (forming a conspiracy) is impossible, is crazy talk. IMO.

[MadHound]

81. Ah, got it now, sorry, a bit slow on the uptake this morning.

And I agree with everything you said.

[whatchamacallit]

85. Funny

you say that, but confirm the bogus Truther = Birther equivalence at the heart of the OP in the same breath. So what is your criteria for "acceptable" conspiracies?

[Rex]

87. Bogus? Maybe to you it is because you believe in MIHOP.

[whatchamacallit]

88. Not entirely sure what to believe

but I haven't ruled it out. There are a lot of unresolved issues surrounding 'the day that changed our lives forever'. Apparently, questioning the account of a government that lied us into Iraq makes you "a loon" in the post 9/11 world.

[Rex]

89. Not so much, we all know that government as war criminals.

It is kinda accepted around the world. Everyone think they should be sent to trial except the actual people that could make that happen. Some conspiracies are obvious ones. Like making sure the BFEE stays out of prison.

Takes something like blowing up the moon talk to be classified as a loon around here imo.

I've seen worse.

[whatchamacallit]

84. Only a loon

ever questions the veracity of the government, business, media... Don'tcha know?

[whatchamacallit]

83. Oldest trick in the book

Associating those who question the official account of 9/11 - a real-world event riddled with anomalies, inconsistencies, and unanswered questions - with UFOers, Bigfooters, Moon landing deniers... is as transparent as it is specious. This directed auto-linkage smells more of fear and desperation than reason. If I'm a moonbat for not unconditionally accepting my lying, cheating, warmongering government's word, so be it.