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n2doc

(47,953 posts)
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 09:13 AM Apr 2013

The Myth of America's Tech-Talent Shortage

by JORDAN WEISSMANN

So it turns out the United States is not, in fact, the educational wasteland tech industry lobbyists would have you think.

Companies like Microsoft often claim that America is suffering from an economically hobbling shortage of science, math, and computer talent. The solution, they argue, is to let employers fill their hiring gaps by importing tens of thousands of educated guest workers beyond what the law currently allows. Much as farmers want to bring in field workers from Mexico on short-term visas, software developers desperately want to bring in more coders from India.

The Senate's current immigration bill would grant their wish. As written, it vastly increases the annual limit on H1-B visas, which allow corporations to bring employees with a bachelor's degree to the U.S. from overseas for up to six years. Roughly half the guest workers who currently arrive through the program come for computer-related jobs. When Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg announced earlier this month that he was forming a political action group to back the reform effort, it was in part seen as a move to ensure that the H1-B provision would make it to President Obama's desk intact.

There's just one problem. That whole skills shortage? It's a myth, as was amply illustrated (yet again) in a report written by researchers from Rutgers, Georgetown, and American University, and issued by the Economic Policy Institute. It still might be the case that tech companies are having trouble finding specific skill sets in certain niches (think cloud software development, or Android programming), but there simply aren't any signs pointing to a broad dearth of talent.

Our Programmer Surplus

Colleges, for instance, are already minting far more programmers and engineers than the job market is absorbing. Roughly twice as many American undergraduates earn degrees in science, technology, engineering, and math disciplines than go on to work in those fields. As shown in the EPI graph below, in 2009 less than two thirds of employed computer science grads were working in the IT sector a year after graduation.



more
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/04/the-myth-of-americas-tech-talent-shortage/275319/





36 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The Myth of America's Tech-Talent Shortage (Original Post) n2doc Apr 2013 OP
Interesting.... I always suspected as much. femmocrat Apr 2013 #1
and Hillary is a big part of the problem. antigop Apr 2013 #2
interesting read dembotoz Apr 2013 #3
Welcome the DU's parallel universe where rightwing talking points control the conversation. Buzz Clik Apr 2013 #4
Since when is "The Atlantic" a RW bullshit source? KoKo Apr 2013 #5
I am not attacking the messenger, I am attacking the message -- as rightwing bullshit. Buzz Clik Apr 2013 #6
with no evidence? You attack fellow DU'ers the Atlantic and the OP for posting... KoKo Apr 2013 #9
Article is saying there's no need for more tech exemptions, why is that RW? tia uponit7771 Apr 2013 #29
Say hi to your boss back in DC for me! n/t n2doc Apr 2013 #7
I notice that most DUers despise being challenged. Buzz Clik Apr 2013 #8
I notice you don't give a source for your assertions malthaussen Apr 2013 #11
If "roughly 75% of the engineering grads had jobs"... ljm2002 Apr 2013 #12
Nice cherry picking. Buzz Clik Apr 2013 #13
I addressed a specific point you made... ljm2002 Apr 2013 #16
So, if I said, ... Buzz Clik Apr 2013 #17
I responded to a specific point of yours... ljm2002 Apr 2013 #25
Seems to be the MO for all high paying jobs in the US. Arctic Dave Apr 2013 #10
The solution is to invest in our own educational systems. Buzz Clik Apr 2013 #14
We have and we are. Arctic Dave Apr 2013 #15
We are? Funding for higher ed has never been lower. Ever. Buzz Clik Apr 2013 #18
Funding by who? Arctic Dave Apr 2013 #21
This argument is headed nowhere. Buzz Clik Apr 2013 #24
What are you claiming is RW? I support an instant path to citizenship but not decimating uponit7771 Apr 2013 #31
This is false, government funding is lower but debt on students is higher uponit7771 Apr 2013 #30
Paying tuition and fees is not part of "funding." Buzz Clik Apr 2013 #34
The real tragedy is science... only 23% doing what they majored in. reformist2 Apr 2013 #19
Also note how it surveyed students one year out of college. What about those 10 years out? reformist2 Apr 2013 #20
They keep the focus very tight on employment-upon-graduation Egalitarian Thug Apr 2013 #26
...un, the game being if there's a shortage the ones 1 month out of graduation should uponit7771 Apr 2013 #32
Sorry, but the U.S. really does have a shortage of qualified science & technology workers ... dawg Apr 2013 #22
True n/t n2doc Apr 2013 #23
LOL! reformist2 Apr 2013 #28
+1 uponit7771 Apr 2013 #33
Yep. It's their excuse to import slave labor Taverner Apr 2013 #27
I watched David Plouff on Bloomberg Business this a.m...and he said KoKo Apr 2013 #35
I did not get employment in two different fields I got degrees in. Manifestor_of_Light Apr 2013 #36

femmocrat

(28,394 posts)
1. Interesting.... I always suspected as much.
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 09:19 AM
Apr 2013

Who doesn't know an unemployed engineer or tech-type person?

 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
4. Welcome the DU's parallel universe where rightwing talking points control the conversation.
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 09:39 AM
Apr 2013

Partisanship at its finest.

The shortage is absolutely real. The numbers in the OP are bullshit.

Colleges, for instance, are already minting far more programmers and engineers than the job market is absorbing. Roughly twice as many American undergraduates earn degrees in science, technology, engineering, and math disciplines than go on to work in those fields.

Um... no. Though it's true the IT sector is saturated, it's saturated with graduates at a time when IT in every sector is cutting back. The abysmal economy was rough on every sector, but far less so in engineering and other high-tech fields. Six years ago, every engineering graduate had multiple job offers, and firms needing engineers were struggling. Roughly 75% of the engineering grads had jobs when averaged over the past 4 years, and the demand is increasing again.

So, if you want to believe the rightwing bullshit aimed at cutting off immigration of talent into the US, feel free. Just recognize the flavor of the crap you're swallowing.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
5. Since when is "The Atlantic" a RW bullshit source?
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 09:51 AM
Apr 2013

If you have a problem with the author of this article's statistical analysis then where is your link to statistics that refute him? Instead you personally attack the OP and the Source plus other DU members who post here.

 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
6. I am not attacking the messenger, I am attacking the message -- as rightwing bullshit.
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 09:53 AM
Apr 2013

I really don't care what revered institution delivered this crap.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
9. with no evidence? You attack fellow DU'ers the Atlantic and the OP for posting...
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 10:06 AM
Apr 2013

Do you hear yourself? Do you read what you post?

ljm2002

(10,751 posts)
12. If "roughly 75% of the engineering grads had jobs"...
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 10:17 AM
Apr 2013

...that means that roughly 25% of engineering grads did not have jobs.

That does not suggest to me that we need to import yet more techies from other countries to fill the available positions.

I am not against having some provision for foreign born talent to work here. But the tech companies are lying when they say they cannot find qualified Americans for most of their jobs. The tech lobbyists are pushing for more H1Bs so they can hire from out of country at a lower rate of pay.

Yes, I know they are supposed to offer the exact same rate of pay to both foreign born and American workers. However, given the current job market, what you have is the perfect means by which to depress the overall rate of pay: foreign workers will accept less and the companies can offer less than what they offered before, and American workers will take it too rather than have no job at all. It is a boon for tech employers and a sad reality for American workers.

 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
13. Nice cherry picking.
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 10:22 AM
Apr 2013

Only read the stuff that supports your pre-conceived notions.

In the meantime, DU continues to joyfully carry the water for the rightwing. Mission accomplished.

ljm2002

(10,751 posts)
16. I addressed a specific point you made...
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 10:49 AM
Apr 2013

...in support of your position. How is that cherry picking???

BTW, I've been a hiring manager, and have managed (and hired) H1Bs as well as American citizens. You?

 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
17. So, if I said, ...
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 10:58 AM
Apr 2013

"In 2005, George Bush stated, 'I am President of the United States.'" You would only read that I claimed that GWB was still president.

We're done here.

ljm2002

(10,751 posts)
25. I responded to a specific point of yours...
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 01:23 PM
Apr 2013

...you replied that I was "cherry picking" and that "in the meantime, DU continues to joyfully support right wing opinions".

Now first of all: I responded to a specific point, and you have not responded to the point I made, other than to object to my making it. Then you make a sweeping generalization about DU, laughably insinuating that the position against an increase in the number of H1B visas is a right wing position.

I responded by pointing out that my position is not taken out of ignorance of the matter. Now it is true, the fact that I've seen the issue up close and personal does not in itself make my position a correct one. It does, however, mean that you cannot simply dismiss my opinion as being taken out of mere ignorance.

But you're right about one thing: we're done here.

 

Arctic Dave

(13,812 posts)
10. Seems to be the MO for all high paying jobs in the US.
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 10:10 AM
Apr 2013

Declare a "shortage" then saturate the job market with foriegn graduates as to lower the salaries in the given field.

 

Arctic Dave

(13,812 posts)
15. We have and we are.
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 10:33 AM
Apr 2013

But that doesn't stop them from bringing in foriegn workers to saturate the job markets.

This has decimated the tech industry payscale and corporations are now adopting this strategy in other fields in the US.

 

Arctic Dave

(13,812 posts)
21. Funding by who?
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 11:46 AM
Apr 2013

Maybe by the government but more people are in debt with loans for higher education. True story.

uponit7771

(90,304 posts)
31. What are you claiming is RW? I support an instant path to citizenship but not decimating
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 03:19 PM
Apr 2013

...our own STEM base

Regards

 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
34. Paying tuition and fees is not part of "funding."
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 03:32 PM
Apr 2013

There's a lot of argument on this thread for the sake of argument with no point whatsoever.

reformist2

(9,841 posts)
20. Also note how it surveyed students one year out of college. What about those 10 years out?
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 11:07 AM
Apr 2013

Wanna bet the numbers will be even lower??
 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
26. They keep the focus very tight on employment-upon-graduation
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 01:29 PM
Apr 2013

because they don't want too many people learning how their game really works.

uponit7771

(90,304 posts)
32. ...un, the game being if there's a shortage the ones 1 month out of graduation should
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 03:20 PM
Apr 2013

...be absorbed...1 year belies the shortage myth no?

tia

dawg

(10,621 posts)
22. Sorry, but the U.S. really does have a shortage of qualified science & technology workers ...
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 11:53 AM
Apr 2013

who will work 60 hours a week for $28,000.

 

Taverner

(55,476 posts)
27. Yep. It's their excuse to import slave labor
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 01:30 PM
Apr 2013

See Chinese and American Railroads for a lesson in Capitalism after slavery is outlawed

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
35. I watched David Plouff on Bloomberg Business this a.m...and he said
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 04:45 PM
Apr 2013

we had to be more competitive with the global market and it wasn't fair that Grad Students from other countries come here to get educated but go back to their own country to work. He felt that it was important for there to be opportunity for them to stay here so we can be competitive. That was code for "they will work for less here...because it's more than they make in their own country" and drive down our own Educated Work force salaries because of the competition from those willing to work for less.

He also said Liberal Arts degree isn't helpful when we need those who can do the jobs of High Tech like Coding and Programming. So sounded to me like all us Liberal Arts grads should just turn ourselves into math whizzes and retrain into coding and programming or we will be working at Burger King if we are lucky enough to get a job there.

His view of the world is interesting.

 

Manifestor_of_Light

(21,046 posts)
36. I did not get employment in two different fields I got degrees in.
Tue Apr 30, 2013, 04:55 PM
Apr 2013

One, a B.A. in biology back in 1980. I went to a liberal arts college that did not offer the BS degree at the time. I interviewed for a job with some idiot that implied that a BA was less than a BS.

I informed him that the college I graduated from did not offer the BS. He ignored me, like all bosses and authority figures have, over the course of my entire life.

Second useless degree, a Juris Doctor back in 1985. Never got a job as a paralegal or anything else, except a crappy temp job.

I had a database entry job once where we had to go through ancient gas leases and enter the information. You had to have either a bachelor's degree or a law degree to understand what you were inputting. It was a weird combination of using legal knowledge and utter drudgery. I was barely able to stand it. It lasted about three months.



Basically, I feel like I wasted all the years I spent earning those two degrees. They don't hire physics/math majors either.

They told baby boomers we needed to earn science degrees because of the space program, and beating the Russians. However, they did not hire us after we became the best-educated generation in American history. They waste us and toss us out.

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