Democrats are digging a political hole so deep we may never be able to get out of it?

[kentuck]

Republicans have discovered the weakness within the Democratic Party. Threaten them with any degree of suffering or pain and they will surrender. Gradually they will give up everything they have fought for in the last 75 years. And they will repeal Obamacare.

There is no reason to believe that the Republicans will ever change a winning formula. They will continue to threaten and extort from the Democrats spending cuts without ever raising taxes. Because if they raised taxes, their threats would be meaningless. They want to keep the huge debt as the excuse for cuts to programs and cuts to the throats of Democrats.

They have discovered the secret to controlling the political agenda. Their next move is to lower the tax rates but make them revenue neutral. They do not want to disturb the status quo nature of the debt. It is working for them just fine.

Democrats will whine and scream about cuts to Meals on Wheels and cuts to Head Start and cancer research, but in the end, they will get nothing. The cuts will happen. And each cut in these programs is another shovel of dirt on the Democratic Party. They have no idea what to do.

[graham4anything]

1. Soon it will be 80-20 with Hillary as President, the senate, the house, the courts

the 50-50 is history.

The 20% fringe (5 from the left, 15 from the right) can whine til the cows come home.
But the cows themselves will be milking the massive victory for America.

Remember, Barack Obama ran on uniting the country.
The lie of the 50-50 was a sleight of hand to say that he couldn't do it, when he is.

When Rush said he wanted to annhilitate the republican party, it meant the people in office that the republican party elects.

It does not mean the 85% of their party that are not bad people, just captive to the fringe on their own side.

The 50-50 is history.

[LondonReign2]

4. What?

That was pointless word salad.

[FreeJoe]

5. Thanks

I was worried for a moment that I had lost the ability to comprehend what I was reading. BTW, I love the phrase "word salad".

[LondonReign2]

6. Looks like a fun game to play though. Let me give it a try:

The two burrito lunch is history.

The tip could be 15%, but adding columns on the left and the right could make it 21%. Either way, no matter how much you churn the butter the cows themselves will moo all the way to the bank.

Remember, Barack ran on a seven game series. The lie was that it wasn’t a 7 game series, or even the best of 9, but he could still do it.

When Rush said he wanted to stop the oxycontin, he didn’t mean the stuff in the bottle, it meant the stuff the pharmacist elected to put in the bottle.

It doesn’t mean that you can’t win a 9 games series or even a best of 11, just that we need to have our uniforms ironed.

The two burrito lunch is history.

[JHB]

8. Who's stronger? Tarzan or Flash Gordon?

[Pelican]

9. Bacon...

[LondonReign2]

12. That's easy

Tarzan vs. Flash Gordon is history.

20 comic book heroes (5 from the League of Justice, 15 from SuperFreinds) can whine til the rosters crow. But the rosters themselves will be laying the eggs of victory.

Remember, Tarzan ran on uniting the jungle. The lie of the jungle said he couldn’t do it, when he was.

When Flash Gordon said he wanted to annhilitate Ming the Merciless, it meant the people Ming employed.

It does not mean the 85% of Ming’s employees that are not bad people, just captive to the fringe on his side.

Tarzan vs. Flash Gordon is history.

[Demo_Chris]

10. You just won the internet :) nt

[RKP5637]

29. Now that made sense!!!

[Cali_Democrat]

45. LOL

[sorefeet]

55. Me too I thought

I was havin a mini stroke or something. Word salad it too cool.

[Bandit]

18. Remember, Barack Obama ran on uniting the country.

Yep, and how is that working out for him... the USA is more divided now than even before Obama came to Office...Republicans have a winning strategy of divide and conquer.. Neither Obama nor Hillary are going to fix that...

[Skittles]

27. heck, he divided DEMOCRATS

those of us who see reality and those whose heads are still in the clouds or sand

[whathehell]

51. +1 n/t

[Douglas Carpenter]

22. Amen! when Jesus returns in a cloud of glory along with Franklin Delano Roosevelt and Lyndon Banes

Johnson! Every knee shall bow and ever tongue shall confess!

[GoneOffShore]

26. Can I get fries with that? Or owls and kudzu?

Your call.

[tularetom]

28. I don't know what it is but I want some of what you're smoking

I want to do stream of consciousness posting too.

[HughBeaumont]

53. You're like an evil RandomThoughts.

At least he wanted nothing more than beer and travel money.

[kentuck]

60. I'm still trying to figure out where he got his name??

Lindsey Graham? Billy Graham? Bob Graham? But wherever he got it, he seems to support "graham" 100%? I can't think of any Graham that is deserving of 100% support but obviously this poster goes all in or nothing.

Random Thoughts? I always thought he was posting from a prison or an institution?

[caraher]

64. Graham crackers?

[graham4anything]

69. BOB GRAHAM, who people said who liked the fraud that was Edwards said was too ugly.

BTW-this is yet another ad hominem.

[NCTraveler]

68. Love it.

"But the cows themselves will be milking the massive victory for America."

[MjolnirTime]

2. I guess we could just gripe. Seems to be working for you.

[Paladin]

3. Well, aren't you just a big ol' ray of sunshine.

Get a grip and propose some effective counter-measures. Either that, or depart and take that black cloud of an attitude with you.

[geek tragedy]

7. Republicans take a strategic view, Democrats take a tactical view.

In other words, Republicans have long range goals and are willing to take short-term political damage in furtherance of those goals.

Democrats on the other hand are willing to flip-flop every 2-4 years out of political expedience.

It's the party of really shitty, inhuman beliefs vs the party of no real core beliefs.

[Paladin]

14. And yet another upbeat post!

Jeez, DU ought to have a Suicide Watch group in which to stash threads like this one. I mean, I'm prone to a periodic down spell now and then, like lots of politically-inclined folks are. But how about pulling out of that tailspin?

[geek tragedy]

15. It's an accurate description. When is the last time the Democrats were willing to unite behind

a position that didn't poll well?

Republicans are much more willing to take a position that's unpopular in the short term in order to maintain consistency with their long-term goals and strategy.

Democrats are always willing to compromise and be the 'reasonable' ones.

[Paladin]

16. If you want to cast longing glances at guys like Mitch McConnell and Ted Cruz......

....you can count me out. While I will agree with you that there has been too much compromising by Democrats on certain issues (Harry Reid's recent cratering being an epic example), now is not the time to stand down and let this bunch of sick Republican fucks have their way. No amount of sophisticated strategic ability can cover up what a danger the Repubs are to us at this point. Get back in the fight or get the hell out of the way.

[geek tragedy]

17. All I am saying is that Democrats could stand to learn something from

the success the Republicans have had.

It's remarkable that a party so at odds with the American people enjoys so much political success.

[graham4anything]

24. Fracture hurt the democratic party since 1952, 1956, 1968,1972, 1980,84.88.2000,2004

never again.
80-20.
let the fracture be the 20 who split and bloviate with each other.

[LondonReign2]

32. The Olympics were held in 1932, 1936, 1952, 1956, 60,64,76.92.04

We shall overcome!
23-skidoo.
Let those who bowl splits also split ther pants.

[graham4anything]

34. The Olympics were held every 4 years,same as Presidentials,Olympics now every 2 years.

election season is now 24/7/365.
(Wish of course it was considered election season everywhere, but I don't whine that it isn't).

[LondonReign2]

36. Mars makes an orbit every one of its years, Jupiter too

2-4-6-8 who do we appreciate
(Wish of course Pluto was still considered a planet,but I don't whine that it isn't).

[neverforget]

38. The other 8 planets voted to get rid of Pluto

because it didn't believe the 80-20 meme

[neverforget]

35. I once bowled a 200.

But that was during Reagan and I liked Mellow Yellow.

[LondonReign2]

37. I once had 200 bowls

But they were *inside* Reagan. Mellow Yellow yum.

[kentuck]

20. Are you in the fight?

That is debatable.

[Paladin]

25. There better Goddamn-well be an explanation of that remark. And immediately, at that. (nt)

[kentuck]

39. "Get back in the fight or get the hell out of the way."

As soon as you explain this one?? If you call this patty-cake exhibition a "fight", you are greatly mistaken. By the way, I would love to "get back in the fight" but every time I try, I get attacked for not going along with the program??

[graham4anything]

42. I got President Obama's back. That is fighting. I also got Harry Reid's back. That is fighting.

It is easier to join a Mob who wants blood, than to back what I believe is the correct way.

Jackie Robinson was the pick because Branch thought he could handle it and NOT fight back personally, and Jackie was elected to the hall of fame for his lifetime achievements that started on day one.

Instant gratification,burnit down mob with torches style is not what is needed.

Longterm eye on the prize, with battles lost to win the war, is what is needed.

The war will be won, but it may take years til it happens.

Hindsight shows the democratic party would have remained office holders since LBJ had there not been infighting, and had the strongest candidates (like Hillary in 2016) been picked.
There is NOT one election that could not have been won starting with Adlai over the horrible, terrible Eisenhower, who led us on a wrongway path later immitated by Reagan who was like a clone of Ike.(yet who was beloved by some democrtic party people, and others who were not at the time like a certain senior senator from Mass).

Remaining calm and cool and collected like President Obama and having his back and marching FORWARD is the way to go.
Let the 20 rant and rave. The 80 win in victory the long time war.

Think of Operation Neptune. Wave on wave on wave on wave died. The war though was won.

[Paladin]

63. I have a long history of criticizing "Play By The Rules" Democrats on DU.

And I've been criticized for it. I accepted that criticism---I didn't sulk, or write it all off as a "patty-cake exhibition."

You know, those Republicans who are garnering such wistful remarks on this thread are still licking their wounds from the ass-kicking that Obama and his people handed them by conducting something the Repubs can't seem to master: a 21st century-level campaign. Those same Republicans are now putting as much distance between themselves and their former pin-up boy Ted Cruz as they can. New polling indicates that Republicans who voted en masse against firearms background checks fucked up, big-time. There's plenty to be frustrated about as a Democrat, day-by-day, but this "Oh shit! Look how much better the Republicans are!" pessimism is uncalled for. Get back in the fight.

[kentuck]

66. I will fight when the cause is right...

...and I will oppose when the cause is wrong. I will not support anyone 100% simply because of Party affiliation. When the Republicans are kicking our ass, we have a duty to speak up, not to be silent. They are kicking our ass on the sequester cuts. I have posted on the insanity of Ted Cruz and I have posted on how Repubs are losing on their votes against background checks. I have supported our Party when they have deserved support and I have criticized them when they have deserved criticism. To do otherwise is a disservice to our Party.

[xtraxritical]

11. Wow, I guess the glass is half empty?

[DCBob]

13. yeah, might as well give up.. it's hopeless.

[byeya]

19. It would be a positive development is Democratic Reps & Sens feared the Left

like the RepubliKKKans fear the right. If we could get into a position where Harry Reid(say) would be afraid of a primary challange from his left, then he would probably be more willing to listen to what ordinary Americans say they need from government. It was an eye opener for the Rs when Lugar and Bennett went down.

[graham4anything]

43. Harry Reid is one cool calm collected great leader. I for one am happy with the 60.

So is Barack Obama.

Without the 60, the cronyn amendment taking everything backward would have passed.

Thank God and Obama it didn't. Most don't even realize the seriousness of that amendment had it passed.

[Savannahmann]

21. On December 6th 1941 the war plans of the United States Navy

Called for the Aircraft Carriers to play a supporting role for the Battleships. The main force was the Battleships. The main striking power was the Battleships. The navy was only as powerful as it's Battleships.

All of those plans went out the window, and on 8 December, the United States Navy took stock, and found that that what was left, was the most effective Navy they could have ship for ship. We learned from our defeat, the Battleship Believers claimed that Pearl Harbor was a fluke, because nobody could sink a battleship, a modern battleship underway. Then Prince of Wales was sunk, and that argument was gone for good. The Japanese in a weird sense, did us a favor. We emerged from Pearl Harbor with totally modern battle ideas, ideas that have been updated and adjusted, but remain much the same in the arena of fleet battle today.

The United States Navy learned from it's defeat, it's humiliation. It adjusted it's tactical thinking, and it's fleet composition. Sure, some of that was necessity, there weren't any Battleships ready for battle. But mostly it was grudging admission that the aircraft was the dominant force in naval warfare.

So when someone, like this poster, mentions that we are using outdated tactics, and not learning from our opponents, historically speaking, they may well be right. Stubbornly clinging to the ideas of yesterday, claiming that there is nothing to be learned from our opponents is foolish in the extreme. The Republicans are beating us, and making us look foolish in the process. Those of us who see it, know that we must adjust our tactics to deal with this reality. Those of us who see it, but hate the opponents so much, they refuse to study, to learn from them, are doomed to make the same mistakes.

Imagine, if the United States had not learned from the battle of Pearl Harbor. Imagine if we had kept turning out battleships, sending them down the harbor, off to be destroyed by a few dozen aircraft. Imagine if we had ignored the lessons of Pearl Harbor? That is the scenario many of us see today. We see our enemy showing us new ideas, better tactics, and better strategic thinking. Our answer, same page, same plan, same everything.

We either evolve, or we start to lose even more than we have. You decide how this turns out, because those of you who berate the poster for sounding the alarm are the same as those Battleship Believers of yesteryear. Determined to ignore the reality, and determined to press on with the only thing you know, unwilling to learn that the truth is very different than you imagined. I only hope our leadership is not listening to folks like that, because if they are, the party will see more losses, electoral and legislative, and all of us will suffer.

[graham4anything]

44. So, you agree with me that war indeed is good. FDR should have gone years earlier.

I am Jewish and more than 10 million could have been saved.

What took FDR so long to go to war?

Hope if Syria or Iran does something that indeed warrants it, we don't wait til its too late.

whatever President Obama does or will do is AOK to me.

BTW-you use the wrong analogy. The correct one is Operation Neptune.
wave on wave, daily battles lost to win a larger war.

Instant gratification means one is hungry again in 30 minutes. Lifetime winning is forever.
I'll take lifetime winning over instant gratification.
Kids always want it quickly.

I'd rather savor the victory forever.

[Savannahmann]

46. No, war is not good.

That was not the point of the history lesson I gave. It was using a historical example of how we must learn from our defeats. We must learn how we lost, why we lost, and what changes we need to make so that next time, we win.

As far as World War II, it and the suffering of the Jews, and the rest of Europe, was caused by the fools who won WW I. They wanted so much out of Germany, there was no way to get it without causing tremendous hardship, and the resulting negative feelings.

I'm not sure that the invasion of Normandy was daily battles lost. Once they were ashore, there was a lot of close in fighting, but by then victory was if not assured, then nearly given. Perhaps you meant the campaign in Italy, where we were stalemated for all intents and purposes for the rest of the war. Winning inches but never getting the breakthrough we wanted. Because once we were out of the hedgerow country of France, and into the open plains where maneuver was king again, the Allies were nearly unstoppable.

Perhaps you meant the battles for Guadalcanal. Which was jokingly called Operation shoestring. Where our troops held out through unimaginable hardship to win through determination. Even the navy suffered incredible losses. It was there that we were down to one operational carrier in the Pacific, and then no operational carriers in the pacific.

But is war good? Or Just? That is where we discuss the theories of Saint Augustine, and Saint Francis. Their writings are the foundation of that theoretical exercise. That is not germain to this discussion. What the discussion was about, was learning from our mistakes, and winning the debate and getting the people behind our ideals, starting with the Gun issue.

The historical example was an effort to get people looking at the issue from a new point of view, not to demonstrate the extent of my knowledge of the various military conflicts, and the political vision behind those events, in history.

[graham4anything]

47. And I agree,settlers here should have never been allowed to slaughter the Native Americans.

This is THEIR land. (btw-no sarcasm.)

I love Harry Reid. Thank God there is 60. Because the only ones who want the Cronyn Amendment are the NRA and their disciples, and those that use the WMDs the NRA backs.

No, I meant Operation Neptune. The storming of the beaches in WW2.
Wave on wave died til they captured the shore. Battles and people lost, to win.

There has been war since the dinosaurs existed and fought amongst themselves.
And there will be 10000 years from now

matters little if the US is involved or not.

Bad people will always exist.

Not ONE more thing needs to be passed between now and 2016 to still have major victories ahead in the war.

In fact, politically, as the republicans own the house, it will be far better to show the repubs as obstructionists because the INS will be out and the OUTS will be in.

SO its big win for Dems in 2014.

as for the senate 1/3 is 2014, 1/3 2016, 1/3 2018 and its the luck of the draw.

[Savannahmann]

58. OK, I'm confused.

I didn't say a word about the Native Americans. So I'm assuming that you are confusing my reply with someone else.

Why revel in defeat, if we can win. We can win by learning from our mistakes. We can win by improving our debate, and our message. We can win and help those who are without now. I don't want to use the Seniors who lost Meals on wheels as victims to make our side look better for 2014. I don't want people going hungry just so we can pretend we're going to take the house, an improbable event with the gerrymandered districts out there. I don't want to lose Head Start just so we can get a couple more Democrats into office in 2014. That's insane. We are talking about our fellow citizens, those of us who need the most help, not getting it, and we're happy because it improves our chances for victory in 2014?

Seriously, for a moment. You know that after the 2010 Census that most states were controlled by Republicans, and they didn't water down the districts, they tightened them up, making them stronger. With the incumbent advantage, that makes taking back the house in an off year election very improbable. Especially if our plan is the same one that hasn't really worked yet. Just painting the Republicans as obstructionist.

We painted the Republicans as obstructionist in 2010, and they won the House. We painted them as obstructionist in 2012. They lost a couple seats, but they held the house, that was with the re-election of President Obama who was very popular at the time. So what are the chances that we'll take the house in 2014? Especially now that the Rethugs have strengthened their hold on so many districts through gerrymandering? Less than we had of holding it in 2010.

So we win the debate, we bring them along, reluctantly granted, but we turn enough of them to our side of the issue, issue by issue. We do it by debating differently than we have been. We do it by changing our tactics, and setting reasonable strategic goals. Starving Seniors so we can hope to use that to paint the Republicans in 2014 is awful, and I can't believe you or any Democrat would seriously consider it.

[graham4anything]

62. I don't hate 160 million Americans. I just want 50-100 of the draconians voted out of office.

Why would any minority, Gay, or women vote for a draconian farright republican?

Don't hate the 160 million Americans , don't vote for the 50 or 100 farright republicans.

Ditching the Dixiecrat Democratic people in the 60s and 70s was well worth it.
Those were ultra bad people.

I welcomed the republicans who voted with the legendary LBJ to bring home the civil rights/voting rights acts.

America is made up of 320plus million people.
I for one don't hate 160 million of them.
Matter of fact, I don't hate anyone.
But 50-100 of the draconian extremists I would be fine if they left office.

The rest can stay.

You mistake the 80-20 for needing to be party specific.
The name don't matter if the President is Democratic and continues to be.

Then the 20(no matter who, being that Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich are now working on the same lobby superpac focus group) are unimportant.

Because I don't hate 160 Million Americans. Sorry.


80-20.
matters little the title after that, long as the President is the Democratic party person.

I assue you will 100% vote and support Hillary45 when she is the nominee. Correct?

[Savannahmann]

67. Those farright Republicans

Are in the safest districts. Short of being caught with an underage girl, or boy, there is little chance they'll be defeated. If they are, it will be in a primary, so another farright Republican will get the seat.

That was the pattern in the House in 2010, 2012, and will be the pattern in 2014. Situations like the one that saw the defeat of West in Florida, are the exception, not the rule. You are forgetting they gerrymandered the districts to give those far right politicians the safest seat possible.

So defeating them, not really going to happen. Oh you might get one, or two, if you throw enough money at the problem. But you'll lose twice that many.

An example, I live in Georgia. We have a Representative named Jack Kingston. He'll never lose his seat. They redrew the lines to make sure he's as safe as can be. So sacraficing people, elderly, the kids in head start, to have a chance to paint him as obstrucionist is frankly foolish. Democrats barely put anyone up against him, becaue he's safe as can be where he is.

There are others, lots of others. Our Senators, Do you think we're going to get a Democrat in one of those? Granted it's an open seat in 2014, Isakson is retiring. But do you really think we'll get one? The last Democrat Senator was Zell Miller, need I say more? Hell, Chambliss is more liberal than Miller was.

So what can we do? We can fight, we can fight smart, and we can fight better than we have been. We can make offers that the Right looks foolish refusing, and they don't want to look foolish. We offer to scrap a Navy Ship to afford the programs that matter to the people. We ask the Republicans on TV if they would be willing to give up a couple F-35's so that we can restart Meals on Wheels.

Then, the moderate ones, the ones who are worried about thier seats, will join with us. We win the issue, probably not the house, but the issue. So what is more important, the issue or the power? I say the issue, because real people are really going to suffer while we hope to get power sometime in the future with a plan that hasn't worked in a decade.

[kentuck]

48. "whatever President Obama does or will do is AOK to me. "

Enough said.

[graham4anything]

49. Sit back and savor President Obama. Damn shame he can't be President for 40 years.

there will never be better.

[kentuck]

50. uh-huh...

damn shame.

Wall Street from top to bottom.

[graham4anything]

52. 80-20. When the 80 are one, the whiny20 can partake of the vineyard of whine together.

Love defeats hate.
And that is true regardless of religion or not religion or anything.

All you need is love.
Pax.

But it reminds me...however, that will be a separate thread when I can configure the right wordings.

[kentuck]

54. I wonder where you would have been in 2001-2002 ?

When DU was the 10% going against the 90% that supported Bush and the wars? Would you have been with the 90%?

[graham4anything]

57. 99.9999% supported the war in Afghanastan. Iraq was wrong. Doesn't make war wrong.

the democratic party was NEVER the pacifist party. EVER.

don't like W? Don't elect Jeb or one of his John Birch Society BFF's.

It really is quite simple.

Where was I in 2001? Seeing the World Trade Center smouldering because haterperps blew it up and 3000 people in the NY/NJ/Conn/PA/DC. area died.

I also blamed Ralph Nader and the residents of NH for screwing with the election of 2000.

Bill Clinton was a great President. Hillary will be even better.
If not for New Hampshire and Ralph Nader, Al Gore would have been seated.

but then many 3rd party ites want to throw another eleciton.

Anything President Obama and President Bill and Hillary Clinton did or will do, is AOK by me.


There are only 2 choices
I know what side I ONLY vote for. 100% of the time.
(because in NY/NJ there is always someone on the ballot in either party, and I vote straight democratic every time.

Working btw, for Christine Quinn for Mayor of NYC.2013.

[LondonReign2]

56. babble babble snort grunt

platitude babble non sequitor snort.

Random random snort babble. Nonsense.

Oxymoron blurp.

[graham4anything]

59. ad hominem.

[Doremus]

23. I think this misses the point that plutocrats fly both banners.

They couldn't care less about blue and red -- they're after the green.

[RKP5637]

30. K&R !!! n/t

[Tarheel_Dem]

31. What a big ol' steaming pantload! If 80%-85% of the party agrees with its leadership.....

then the 15%-20% should just go, and happy trails to you. You Better Believe It!

[kentuck]

41. Before you ever found DU....

90% of Americans agreed with George W Bush on the war in Iraq. We were the holdout 10%. Who was right on that one??

[Tarheel_Dem]

70. WTF does that have to do with Democrats? I'm not talking about the new liberal/libertarian hybrid..

that calls itself progressive, I'm talking about rank-n-file, hardworking Democrats who could give a shit about DU, or it's machinations. As you and I both know, internet progressivism is a breed unto itself. You're no soothsayer, and I really wish the people who only come here to divide and conquer the Democratic Party would just go do their own thing, like the Roseanne Barr/Rocky Anderson/Jill Stein/Ron Paul coalition. If you think there are any Democrats out there, to the far left of Barack Obama, who stand a snowball's chance in hell of winning the WH, you're sorely mistaken.

Hillary Clinton is the 2016 frontrunner for a reason, and many believe (myself included) that she is to the right of Barack Obama, and she's certainly more hawkish. There's a reason why center-left candidates keep winning the nomination, and one only has to visit DU when it's going through one of its many convulsions to see why. I'm willing to make a prediction here & now; there will never EVER be another hardcore "Unrepentant" liberal in the Oval Office, in our lifetime, for the exact same reasons this country won't elect a teabaggin' Marco Rubio. Bank on that!

Accept that you guys rule DU, but little else.

[kentuck]

71. BS

80/20 BS

[Douglas Carpenter]

33. If FoxNews can pretend that the Democratic Party is pursuing a leftwing agenda. If the mainstream

media can pretend that the Democratic Party is pursuing a liberal agenda. If they all can pretend that only left-wing lunatics care about holding on to what remains of the New Deal and the Great Society. Then there is no reason whatsoever why we cannot all pretend too.

I'm not going to worry my beautiful mind by worrying about how we are on the road to serfdom with a permanently empowered upper and near upper class and a permanently dis-empowered and financially distressed overwhelming majority lower and near lower class. Okay we all know that's true and we all know that the Democrats are not doing anything to reverse it. But why think about it? That five minutes of ecstatic cheering on election night when we win makes all those bad thoughts go away.

[forestpath]

40. k&r

[Skidmore]

61. Ah, jeez.

The floggings continue.

[99Forever]

65. K&R