It is very odd that Rusian Tsarni was married to Graham Fullers daughter.

[xiamiam]

I'm not even going to begin to speculate about some conspiracy theory. It is one of those things...like many others which we've been told or discover.. especially over the last decade.. which doesn't sit right. He lived with him for a year in Maryland. Just a little piece of information that I wasn't expecting and really, really is a wtf moment.

[Schema Thing]

1. could have been a motivating force.

but yeah, it's definitely a "wtf?".

[MineralMan]

2. Do you have a point of reference for this post?

Who is Graham Fuller, for example? Maybe this was something from another thread? I'm confused.

[libodem]

3. Maybe the article is over in Politics 2013?

He is a CIA agent. I just read it somewhere. Sibel Edmonds fingered him as a rouge, long ago.

[MineralMan]

5. A rouge?

OK, now I'm even more confused. I did a search, but found only claims and not much else. Besides, this daughter was married to someone briefly, and then got divorced. I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean, really.

This all sounds like people looking for shit that doesn't really matter.

[libodem]

17. I did spell that goofy I meant rogue

Not rouge. My bad.

[xiamiam]

29. married to him for 3 years..why do you say briefly? nt

[MineralMan]

30. That's briefly for someone who has been married for 20.

Very briefly.

[xiamiam]

36. a long time for someone who has never been married..nt

[Kali]

70. depends on the marriage

[MineralMan]

71. True enough. My first lasted just six months.

It was her waving a butcher knife at me that was the last straw.

[freshwest]

138. Yep. It's not the years, it's the mileage!

[maxsolomon]

7. Rogue.

Rouge is makeup.

[MineralMan]

8. Unless you're a former Alaska Governor.

Then it's a book, or something.

[libodem]

19. You can see my blush

From rouge.

[Jamastiene]

141. You sure he is not more of a mauve? n/t

[libodem]

158. .

[Warren Stupidity]

4. Graham Fuller is ex-cia who, oddly enough, was station chief in Kabul among other

highly placed positions. Its sort of a giant WTF that will fuel conspiracy theories for decades.

[MineralMan]

6. Oh, OK, so this guy from Russia was married to the man's

daughter, but they got divorced. How does this have anything to do with anything we care about? How does it connect with Boston, except by a short-term marriage. Sounds like bullshit to me, frankly.

[Warren Stupidity]

10. Ruslan and Fuller are effectively "made men" in the BFEE.

So the nephews of a made man in a crime family commit a huge crime. Nothing to see here, move along? Or that actually is a huge story line that needs a full explanation? You tell me. I vote for "full investigation". Aint gonna happen. These two shitheads are too well placed.

[MineralMan]

13. I had to look up BFEE. More obscure references that add nothing

to the thread. This thread is junk. I'm out.

[Warren Stupidity]

14. BFEE - oh right nothing odd at all happened from Gulf War I through Gulf War II.

yeah I forgot.

[sabrina 1]

50. Lol, you never heard that description of the Bush family before?

This is one of the more interesting threads I've seen on du lately. Especially if you were following the Bush gang's criminal enterprises on liberal boards where some fascinating facts were revealed throughout that disastrous administration.

[MineralMan]

52. That's why I looked it up.

That's what I do when I am not familiar with an acronym. After I looked it up, I knew what the reference was about.

Thanks for your reply.

[bahrbearian]

81. Nobody at the Free Republic knows what BFEE is.

[MineralMan]

84. Oh so clever and sneaky...

A masterful stroke, indeed.

[xiamiam]

86. explained quite a bit actually..nt

[MineralMan]

87. Under every bush...

there may be a rabbit. My beagle/basset hound Dude knows that, and is sure to check each one.

[grasswire]

101. you had to look up BFEE?

Where ya been for the last fifteen years, man?

[Berlum]

15. Ahhh - the BFEE. Was Fuller hired for the CIA by Poppy or Georgie AWOL Bush?

The BFEE Skull & Boner Boys and their Occult Republican operations....shit.

h

[Coyotl]

122. BFEE = someone's imagination

[Warren Stupidity]

124. I only wish that were true.

[sabrina 1]

131. Lol, yes as we all know, that family is an upstanding, decent, moral and ethical true patriotic

American family. There is no way anyone could ever accuse them of doing anything wrong, or criminal. That would be an outrage!

[Coyotl]

132. Why would you say that,

When the opposite is true?

[sabrina 1]

133. Why would you say that, when we all know that it is absolutely true?

[Coyotl]

134. They are NOT the empire, just minions of the plutocrats.

BFEE is a conspiracy theory with some truth mixed in, granted. It is someone's imagination at work trying to describe a real situation, granted. But the empire is far greater than these pawns.

[sabrina 1]

137. Who said they are 'THE Empire'??? Evil Empire, it is a phrase, it is meant to imply 'powerful'

They ARE powerful, unfortunately. They play and have played a big role, very big, over several decades in the building of what has become an Empire. But BFEE doesn't mean they are THE whole empire. It is not meant to be taken literally, but to be descriptive of the immense power this one family has accumulated which certainly can't be denied. They may be 'minions' of the real Empire, but they are pretty powerful minions.

[Jamastiene]

143. Precisely.

I cannot believe I am seeing people deny the BFEE is as powerful as it is, on DU, of all places.

[sad-cafe]

12. sounds like the same kind of shit that Oily Taintz is doing

look at her page, same kind of shit

[sabrina 1]

116. You follow Orly Taitz?

Well, to each their own I suppose.

[sad-cafe]

118. I check out her page to see what crazy she thinks of next

then I shower and check out The Fogbow!


That woman is a schreeching nutcase.

[xiamiam]

25. if you are satisfied then it must be ok..lol

I have a different type of curiosity.. a little more cynical perhaps but I didn't start off that way. I can guarantee you one thing, "move along, nothing to see here", has not served us well in the past.

[sabrina 1]

48. No one has to care about it, but I find it very interesting which is just my opinion of course but

together with some of the other things we are learning it is definitely one more very interesting 'coincident'.

Brings back memories actually of other coincidences we learned about several years ago. It is always fascinating to see a 'dot' as it were connected to some other 'story' that had its own very interesting connected dots.

[MineralMan]

49. Hi, there.

[FarCenter]

54. MIT cop Sean Collier was shot execution-style because terrorists ‘needed a gun’

Investigators have revealed that the Boston terrorists, brothers Tamerlan and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, originally from Chechnya, only had one real gun and one pellet gun. Because Collier’s holster had a locking system they couldn’t get the gun out. Collier was shot at point-blank range in the head as he sat in his patrol car.

One of the first responders to these shots fired at MIT was Richard D Donohue JR, who had attended Police Academy with Collier. He was shot later on Thursday evening during a shootout with the Tsarnaev brothers in Watertown. Tamerlan was killed in the shootout but his teenage brother was not apprehended until Friday evening. He remains in hospital.

...


The 27-year-old enjoyed mountain climbing, training young boxers and playing kickball on a team called Kickhopopotamus. According to the Daily Mail, Collier had been a volunteer at the boxing gym where Tamerlan was a member and is believed to have helped with his training.

Read more: http://www.irishcentral.com/news/MIT-cop-Sean-Collier-was-shot-execution-style-because-terrorists-needed-a-gun-204653531.html

So Tamerlan Tsarnaev and Sean Collier knew each othe from the gym.

Sean Collier and Richard Donohue went to Police Academy together. Donohue was shot and almost killed, possibly by "friendly fire".

[sabrina 1]

115. Very odd coincidence, unless it wasn't. I wonder if he knew his routine, knew where he would be?

It seemed as if it was random, but possibly not. What a cold-blooded thing to do especially if he knew him and went to kill him just to get a gun.

I am glad that Richard Donohue survived and I hope he makes a full recovery. It's possible he will know more about the relationship between the two.

Thank you for the links.

[xiamiam]

57. exactly Sabrina...is it really a connecting dot? I hope not

but it is strange. If you just think about the fact that there is someone with the insight and power of Fuller as a father in law and obviously wanting the best for his daughter and husband who are living with him for a year. People with connections have connections. That's just the way it is. I watched Rusian's interviews and really liked him. I expressed that I believed him to be authentic here. He reminded me of my father which is rare occurrence. Still, there is something here which deserves scrutiny.

[MineralMan]

66. Just a side note: It's Ruslan Tsarni, not Rusian.

It's an easy mistake to make.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

100. As in "Ruslan and Ludmilla Overture" by Mikhail Glinka

Played this in community orchestra years ago.

One of the favorite Russian "potboiler" overtures.

[sabrina 1]

129. It's certainly an interesting coincidence, xiamiam. What it means we have no idea, but now we have

learned of another. That the officer shot and killed was known to the older brother from the boxing gym. So did he know the officer's schedule and deliberately seek him out to get the gun? At first it seemed random.

I liked the uncle also, he seemed genuinely distraught and understandably very angry at his nephews. And nothing changes that.

But the connection is a new piece of information that I'm sure many people will find interesting.

[Taverner]

67. If anything, Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon proves that if you go looking for connections...

You will find them

Never fails

[MineralMan]

68. We're all connected, you know.

Some of us are more highly connected than others, of course, but we're all connected.

There are even connections to connections. I used to have a connection, but he moved to Oregon.

[davidpdx]

144. If you have connections in Oregon, then we might be related

*kidding*

[geek tragedy]

94. Kevin Bacon has not been ruled out as a suspect.

Just thought that should be noted.

[freshwest]

119. Read the links below. First is very detailed; the second is of his most famous book.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_Fuller

http://www.amazon.com/Future-Political-Islam-Graham-Fuller/dp/1403965560

It is VERY interesting that a man of such knowledge could have had anything to do with this. One can imagine it influenced his daughter. Totally political. Definitely a

[jakeXT]

9. He had his own thread here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2739231


Sarkozy and Wisner were also connected through a marriage, I wonder if it helped him much.

[MineralMan]

11. See, my point is that you pop an original post in GD,

but don't link to anything or explain anything or even give us a hint about what the heck you're talking about. You have assumed something that is not accurate in assuming that people reading DU can read your mind, or have just finished reading something you also read.

Tell us why you're posting this, provide a link, or explain what you're talking about. That will save a lot of time.

[Shrike47]

18. I so agree.

Some threads are bewildering. If people explained a little more, at least I'd know where to look.

[MineralMan]

20. Well, this one goes right into a conspiracy theory, so it

should really be in Creative Speculation. That would have saved me several minutes of trying to figure out whether it was nonsense or not. I have wasted those minutes.

[Berlum]

23. No minutes wasted

No investigator would blow this off without looking into it.

Is it just a woo-woo coincidence - Stupefation Style?

As usual, there are many INTERESTS which will make the woo-woo noises to wave the Hounds of Truth away without SUFFICIENT SNIFFING.

[Whisp]

27. at one time the Iraq war was 'conspiracy theory'

and we now know that it wasn't a theory at all, it was practiced. But the early voices against the war were teased and laughed at too.

I don't know what the OP is about but what I am noticing a lot lately is that conspiracy does not exist on DU!. And that is so much full of b.s. We are being conspired against by the powers every single day in all kinds of ways.

Call me Alexia Jones if you like, but if you can deny this then less power to you, I suppose.

[xiamiam]

28. they were married and he is his ex father in law..I have not speculated about anything..this is fact

I'll leave the speculation and investigation to those who do it professionally. I said it is odd and it is.

[LanternWaste]

149. What precisely (and relevant to the context) makes it appear odd to you?

What precisely (and relevant to the context) makes it appear odd to you?

[Jamastiene]

164. So, if I made a post that pointed out that John Hinkley Jr.'s father

was a financial supporter of George H.W. Bush’s 1980 presidential primary campaign, would that make me a conspiracy theorist too? What if I mentioned: "The Hinckley family is related in three ways to the Bush family. Both families descent from Samuel Hinckley, Sarah Hinckley (née Soole), Thomas Lathrop, Sarah Lathrop (née Learned), John Gallup, and Hannah Gallup (née Lake)." Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hinckley,_Jr#Bush.E2.80.93Hinckley_family_connection

Honestly, that looks like you are making an assumption of conspiracy theorists, when, in fact, the poster simply said something was odd about that. I can understand if you want links to where that is mentioned, because I would want a source too, but just because someone mentions some interesting trivia about a subject does not mean they are making up a conspiracy theory. Can you at least agree that the coincidence IS interesting?

[xiamiam]

33. I assume that people on DU pay attention to the news..nt

[MineralMan]

34. In which news was this covered that I should be expected

to read or watch?

[xiamiam]

39. probably not yet covered by msm but I discovered today while reading this article

http://rt.com/news/boston-bombing-persons-of-interest-545/

Every morning, I watch democracy now, read DU, follow links, check RT, and a few other favorites. I do not watch tv nor do I watch msm even online.

[MineralMan]

40. So, it hasn't really been in the news...

RT isn't news. It's propaganda. The rest of the links where this story have appeared are all pretty much off-the-wall web sites and blogs. And you expect people to get your empty references? Try a link, or an explanation, and your posts will be of more interest, I think.

[xiamiam]

46. bs about RT..what you watch is propaganda..

what right do you have to say that rt is propaganda. Do you ever watch or are you stuck in mainstream media land and trying to lecture me? Get over yourself and pay attention. Read everything and discern what is true for yourself. Oh god. Pitiful excuse you use. Do you really think that if it is not on msm it is not news? Are you an adult?

[MineralMan]

47. What right do I have? Really?

I have the right to express my opinion, and my opinion is that RT is a propaganda outlet. That opinion is based on reading RT links that have been posted on DU.

I read lots of sources, and filter them based on their reputations.

And, yes, I am an adult.

[xiamiam]

51. must be difficult to gather facts if you limit your information sources

your opinion would be of more interest to me if you had a broader frame of reference. Blacklisting news info based upon the opinions of others is a bit naïve. Did you also believe Judy Miller and her articles in the New York Times about wmd's in Iraq?

[MineralMan]

53. As you say. Apparently you also limit your sources,

and by your own account. I read all sorts of sources, including ones I think are suspicious or slanted. I just take that into consideration. You have stated that there are many sources you never read or watch. RT is propaganda. That does not mean that I don't look at links to RT. It just means that I look at them carefully and check other sources before accepting anything RT says.

[xiamiam]

65. I dont limit my information sources..I said i dont watch msm

and I will not ever again. All that is news is readily available if you have an interest and curiosity. please, stop attacking me and this thread, it is not about me. It is simply about the fact that a piece of information is mind boggling. You have attacked the thread, the source and now attempt to put words in my mouth about what I read. You have yet to address the information other than to say it is speculation. Truly, I have no interest in all of the distractions you have attempted in each post. I have an interest as to duers thoughts about this relationship. Amazingly enough, someone might post an entire history of things they know about graham fuller. Duers are like that...filled with information and insight that they are willing to share. That is the reason for the entire op.

[freshwest]

120. I gave you Fuller's Wiki page and the link to his book on Amazon. But I don't expect a reply.

[NBachers]

140. Yeah, I'm still pretty much groping at what's happening here; guess I'm just not an "insider."

The Weighty Significance Of It All still hasn't registered.

Maybe a chalk board with diagrams and connections would help straighten it all out.

[MineralMan]

21. Who the fuck is Hopsicker?

This thread is say out there. I think it belongs in Creative Speculation or something.

The truth is out there...somewhere...anywhere...or maybe hidden under a rock.

[FarCenter]

38. Katherine Russell Tsarnaev is apparently the grandaughter of Skull and Bones member

Richard Warren Russell -> Warren King Russell II -> Katherine Russell

A graduate of Phillips Exeter Academy, Yale University and a graduate student at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Mr. Russell pursued his passion for learning, reading and discussing history and politics to the end of his life. His interests ranged from the ancient civilizations of the near East to the writings of Sun Tzu and the films of Kurosawa, from the military history of World War Two to the essays and fiction of Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn. He also served in U.S. Army Counter-Intelligence from 1952 to 1955 and was a member of Delta Kappa Epsilon.

He is survived by Katherine Wehmann Russell, his wife of 56 years; his children Dr. Warren King Russell II, Elizabeth Suzanne Russell, Margaret Warburg and Richard Andrew Russell; as well as seven grandchildren, one great-grandchild, and his beloved dog, "Dude."

http://hosting-24281.tributes.com/show/Richard-Warren-Russell-92719945

George Herbert Walker Bush was a Skull and Bones member and graduated from Yale in 1948.

[Berlum]

43. Ahhh, the Skull & Boner Boy-Os again.

They have their greazy fingers in a lot of funky pies.

[MineralMan]

63. The necrophilia connection makes it all clear to me, now.

...

[Berlum]

108. Whatever floats your boat

The coincidence connection doesn't make it "all clear" to me or probably anyone else, but it does raise questions. It would in my view be a dereliction of a citizen's democratic duty to fail to ask the questions, no matter whether the answers lead to the Twilight Zone, the Realm of Ridiculous Hilarity, or Some Stanky Cabal of Republicans Ghouling it up like the Living Dead in a freaking frat-boy Krypt.

[HiPointDem]

85. OK, now that is freaky.

Last edited Mon Apr 29, 2013, 08:52 PM - Edit history (2)

Richard Warren Russell S&B 1951
Richard George Russell S&B 1981

http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/Skull-And-Bones1833-1985.htm

s & b founder:

William Huntington Russell (russell & co) S&B 1833

note on edit: rw russell (1951) is no relation to wh russell, the founder of s&b.


when i heard the name 'russell' i vaguely wondered, but then i thought, 'nah, how would a random chechen immigrant wind up married to some relation to *the* russells, they just wouldn't run in the same circles.' (note: the two russell families don't seem to be related but i'm leaving my original post up. i assumed there must be a relation because both russells were s&b, but not the case)

ruslan being an oil lawyer is a little freaky, but not so much as this.

[FarCenter]

95. Richard Warren Russell's wife was named Katherine

So Katherine Russell was named after her grandmother.

[HiPointDem]

98. now that i've checked, there doesn't seem to be any connection between this russell family

& the skull & bones founder's family, though, unless it was back before the 1700s.

still a rather well-off boston-area family though.

http://www.russelleng.com/

http://books.google.com/books?id=9QgtAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA283&lpg=PA283&dq=james+russell+boilerworks&source=bl&ots=DMOlWDjWhp&sig=9yPmw8_lnhPbepjBuRqFR3zUUVw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Xe9-UZKuD8nAiwK72YCYBA&ved=0CEoQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=james%20russell%20boilerworks&f=false

Massachusetts State Representatives James Hazen Carleton...Henry Warren Wilson

http://archives.lib.state.ma.us/handle/2452/204423?show=full

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~russellkeir/DuncanAnnRussell.html

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Douglas-Dewar-Russell-engineer-yachtsman-2586213.php

[FarCenter]

107. The Reverend Noadiah Russell, one of the founders of Yale, had 9 children

There seem to be a number of Russells who have attended Yale over the years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noadiah_Russell_(Yale_founder)

The Reverend Samuel Russell was another founder of Yale.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Russell_(Yale_co-founder)

[HiPointDem]

112. this family is descended from james of scotland

[xiamiam]

35. why are you posting over and over then? nt

[MineralMan]

37. Because I'm fascinated with posts that have no references.

I can't imagine posting such a thing.

[whatchamacallit]

41. Your fear is palpable

You've been frantic to shut this thread down from your first post. All the while admitting or pretending you don't know who's being discussed. Authoritarian much?

[MineralMan]

42. Not at all. If I had wanted to shut it down, I would have alerted.

I didn't. I won't. You're confused. What I wanted was some sort of reference so the thread made some sort of sense. Now that the references are there, it doesn't make much sense, still. Oh, well.

I never even suggested that the thread should be shut down. That came from your imagination, I think. I asked for answers.

[whatchamacallit]

44. Eh... didn't you say the thread belongs in CS?

Getting wished in to the cornfield is pretty much the same thing.

[MineralMan]

45. I did say that. I still think it's nonsense and a CT.

Judging from some of the links, I'm almost certain of it. And yet, here it is, and I'm here participating in it. My comments have no effect on what happens to a thread. None whatsoever.

[William Seger]

56. Yes, it is CT bullshit

Hopsicker is a conspiracy huckster and he's pushing the "theory" that Fuller recruited the Tsarneavs to do the bombing, 'cause you know, just connect the dots.

[MineralMan]

59. I did notice that the two posts about the Hopsicker were hidden.

Whatever a Hopsicker is...wait...hops. Beer. It all has to do with a brewery. The Brewmaster did it! Case solved! You just have to follow the connections, see...

[libodem]

22. very interesting

[HappyMe]

24. Meh!

Sounds like the beginnings of a CT.

[FarCenter]

31. Daughter of Ex-CIA Agent Graham Fuller Once Married to Tsarnaev Brothers' Uncle

Fuller confirmed that his daughter, Samantha A. Fuller, was married to Ruslan for three to four years in the 1990s, when his surname was then spelled Tsarnaev.

Fuller, former CIA officer in Turkey and vice chairman of the National Intelligence Council, told Al-Monitor that internet rumors about “possible connections between Ruslan and the Agency through me are absurd.”

“Samantha was married to Ruslan Tsarnaev (Tsarni) for 3-4 years, and they lived in Bishkek for one year where Samantha was working for Price Waterhouse on privatization projects,” said Fuller, who retired from the CIA in 1987. “They also lived in our house in [Maryland] for a year or so and they were divorced in 1999, I believe.”

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/religion/islam/daughter-ex-cia-agent-graham-fuller-once-married-tsarnaev-brothers-uncle

Of course the Russians would know all about this, so when they contacted the FBI/CIA about his nephew, they would say almost nothing and be careful to not reveal means and methods.

[Skidmore]

32. Between these threads and Infowars BS

it is hard to take anything seriously.

[hrmjustin]

55. Ok so what does this mean in the end?

Nothing I am sure.

[MineralMan]

58. It means that the Ruslan guy was married for three years to

a woman who is the daughter of someone else. That's significant, no doubt. Then they got divorced. That was probably the trigger for the Boston Marathon bombing. Divorce embitters some men. How does that sound? Now, all we need to know is who Ruslan's divorce lawyer was. Probably there's a connection there, too.

[hrmjustin]

60. well put my friend!

[HappyMe]

61. I believe the firm of

Big Foot, Bat Boy & Jones handled the case.

[MineralMan]

64. LOL!

[xiamiam]

69. do you do this all day?

No way would I waste my time on a post in which I have no interest or which I think is nonsense. Must have a lot of time oon your hands.

[MineralMan]

74. I'm taking a day off from work. Tomorrow, I start on a new

work contract. Then you can ask me about concrete swimming pool building.

[HappyMe]

76. *gasp!*

Not the concrete swimming pool people! You do know who they are messed up with.

Lifeguards!!1

[MineralMan]

77. Yes. I confess. I'm writing a web site for a swimming pool builder.

Despite their connections. I have it on good authority that Jimmy Hoffa is buried under a concrete swimming pool. Don't let on that you heard that, though.

Did you know that there's a concrete swimming pool at the White House? George W. Bush swam in it, and so have other Presidents. It's the common connection between them all. It's the chlorine that does it.

[graham4anything]

157. You know what is funny? Just a few days ago

the conspiracy theorists were saying the whole family especially the mother and wife and father and uncle and cat and dog and pidgeon is innocent

then that meme was turned around

and now the mother and family and wife are part of a jumbo conspiracy theory
wtih breadcrumbs strewn all around
(except that the parrot is eating the breadcrumbs and some of them dribbling out and being deposited accidentally leading the trail otherwise



two haterperps going on a fameseeking killride.

[Fawke Em]

62. You know what bothers me.

I'm sure I'll get flamed, but it's bothered me for a week now.

The younger brother, Jahar, is STILL being defended by his friends, he's been called "a lovely child," by one of his teachers and he seems to have not done anything more illegal than smoke a bit of dope, yet, all of a sudden he can just "flip" and allegedly join his brother on a bombing brigade?

Much like Holmes and Loughner, his alleged "deadly" transformation has come from NO WHERE. WHY is this happening? (I won't put Lanza in this category, as it seemed he had other challenges that we're not at all sure of).

I saw a video of Jahar with his niece over the weekend and he DOES seem like "a lovely child." Their exchange reminds me of my 14-year-old and his 5-year-old sister - he's sweetly picking on her, but ends up just kissing her. Maybe I'm weird, but I'm just having a really difficult time wrapping my head around the compartmentalization that Jahar must have had to do what he's accused of.

(BTW, Jahar is innocent until proven guilty or pleading guilty. I'll refrain from calling him "The Bomber" or judging him without seeing all the facts. I used to be a crime reporter and could have gotten sued for referring to someone as guilty when they have not been adjudicated as such.)

[HappyMe]

73. I think that if people want to pull

off this kind of thing, they have to have a double life. I don't think you want any hint of something being off or draw any attention to yourself.

[NoPasaran]

80. Possible they were all Manchurian Candidates, triggered by rogue (or rouge) bottles of ketchup

In the US of A the ketchup market is dominated by Heinz. Former Pennsylvania Senator John Heinz III was killed in an "accident" while a passenger in a small plane. His widow, Teresa, is now married to US Secretary of State John Kerry, another member of Skull and Bones.

Connect the dots, people!
Connect.
The.
Dots.

[MineralMan]

82. And what was the reason that catsup's spelling changed to ketchup?

There's a story behind that, I'm certain, with ties to nefarious characters with suspicious backgrounds. A thorough investigation is in order, I believe.

[NoPasaran]

88. Why do you think Grumpy "Cat" has been in the news lately?

Word to the wise.

[MineralMan]

91. Aha! I knew it. See this link, too:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022773131

"Marathon Oil and the Boston Marathon Bombing - Is There a Connection?"

[texanwitch]

96. What bothers me is how quick people believe what they hear from CNN or other news sources.

If someones says anything different they get laughed at.

It is OK to think about what you hearing from the news.

This whole Boston thing was weird from the start.

Two brothers who didn't have a escape plan or money to get away.

It is just odd.

I will keep my mind open to I hear all the facts.

Yes something did happen and people were killed and injured.

I just want to know all the facts why, and how it happened.

I just don't believe something because I see it on tv.

I hope the truth whatever it is comes out.

[Fawke Em]

99. Thanks for answering my post seriously.

I wasn't trying to promote any CT or allege anything other than I think it's odd that this boy, who by all accounts was a sweet, normal, regular kid, all of a sudden flips and is accused of something this horrendous. Not that he was the first sweet and normal kid to do so, mind you.

[texanwitch]

102. You are welcome.

I just found this whole thing odd from the beginning, starting with the backwards white baseball cap.

I know a retired police officer who agrees with me.

People are upset about what happened, so am I.

I just don't think anyone should believe everything they hear on the news.

CNN is not a trusted news source.

I want the truth, thats all.

[ecstatic]

111. Would you have so many doubts if he was from Iran or Saudi Arabia?

And what do you make of the video footage of him setting the bomb behind a child and then tweeting that night as if nothing happened?

[Jamastiene]

163. I haven't seen that video footage yet.

I heard the FBI has it, but I haven't seen it yet.

[LeftInTX]

139. It seems like Dzhokhar may have been veering in a direction

He was putting up a few posts online here and there, indicating a more fundamentalist point of view but nothing that concerned anyone.

And after seeing the mom, it's obvious that Dzhokhar came from a very dysfunctional home. Add to this, the bullying brother who was becoming increasing radicalized.

He seems like he was a nice kid and I was surprised at first too.

[bike man]

72. Ooh! Ooh! I read on the internets that the uncle had business dealings with Halliburton

in the past.

Is this CT worthy?

[xiamiam]

78. thanks..just googled that..lots of articles re that decade long relationship

too weird to make up.. nothing surprises me any longer

[liberalmuse]

75. Uh oh!

You are going to piss off some of the old timers. They do not like this sort of thing and will shut you down, or at least piss all over this thread.

That being said, I appreciate threads like this, and am glad they haven't been completely censored from DU. YET.

Very interesting. It's hard to turn a blind eye to odd coincidences like this.

[xiamiam]

79. I'm an old timer .nt

[graham4anything]

83. Conspiracy theories fester.Uncle was correct-the hatekillers were 2 losers seeking fame

I personally am tired of the 6 degree stuff.
We all come from the same great apes.

One good thing about conspiracy theories in 2013- Like Ralph Nader and 3rd parties, they are so outlandish that never again will a conspiracy theory be taken seriously as they are a dime a bad pulp drugstore novel a dozen.

[HiPointDem]

90. 911 was a conspiracy. watergate was a conspiracy. apparently you're ok with conspiracies

if they have the official stamp of approval on them.

what you actually mean is that you have a problem with conspiracies involving elements of the ruling government cliques or corporate america.

those we aren't allowed to know about until 50 years after the fact.

[graham4anything]

93. Deniers of events like these have also happened since slavery, since the Holocaust too.

same conspiracy theorists and deniers think the kids in Conn. did not die.
Think there were no airplanes on 9-11. That no one died.
That the WTC is still standing or whatever they believe.

Don't like Bush? Don't elect Jeb.

Visit the Holocaust museum. Visit the memorial at Oklahoma City. Visit downtown NYC
where every day going in from NJ to NY I see the skyline and nope, I no longer see the WTC standing (yup, it fell.)

Finally the silent majority are speaking up against these ct's and the ct'ers.

Follow those breadcrumbs. It's the silent majority 80% of the country saying NO to cts.

one thing all these ct's do. It just makes the ct'ers the boy who cried wolf, chicken little and
all. Meaning they have drowned themselves out.

The world is changing. 80-20 forever til its 90-10.

The silliest thing about CT's is the same people think government is so inept and can't do anything. Yet they can concoct the wildest conspiracy theories Hollywood could write, and then, keep quiet.

Look at the two thrillkill haters. They bragged about it to the person they carjacked and let him go.

Perps always talk. Why else do they bother to do things, if not to talk.
They can't keep their mouths closed.

To think 9-11 didn't exist, and to think 3000 people didn't die and that they wired buildings.
And no one talked?
It would have taken 100s and 100s and 1000s of people world wide and no one talked?

It boggles the mind, especially as they say government is so inept.

Conspiracy theories want the world to always be 50-50, so their cottage industry can continue and their vineyard of whine will prosper with their stories.
Sorry I don't follow breadcrumbs.

Boston put everything in context. BTW, I actually walked up to a police office this week and said Thank You. Funny thing is, conspiracy theories led me to do just that.

"it's funny when you get that close, it's kind of hard to hate&quot c)Harry Chapin.
(who died in a tragic car accident on the L.I.E.(no, that is not LIE, that is the Long Island Expresssway), and the tragic accident,that was not a conspiracy,not a little green martian and NO, a manchurian didn't do it, and Harry's words live on).

BTW, no, wait, that will make a good new thread at a later time. TBC

[texanwitch]

97. Yes, you are so right.

Governments can do evil things.

I will continue to think for myself and not let others think for me.

[geek tragedy]

89. Looks like Alex Jones-style conspiracy mongers on the left have their

angle upon which to waste the next 3 months to several years vainly attempting to find a conspiracy.

[GoneOffShore]

92. Not really alert worthy but this certainly belongs in CS.

We can't all be Kevin Bacon.

Perhaps the second half of my sig line is relevant.

[grasswire]

103. were the Russians tapping Mrs. Tsaernaev's phone because her son's ex- FIL...

....was CIA, big-time CIA?

[xiamiam]

104. it is the uncles ex wife who is the daughter of the cia head graham fuller

I don't think anyone said that the uncles phones were tapped

[xiamiam]

105. I learned a lot just by posting this thread

I learned in the past few hours thru this thread that the uncle, Rusian has a ten year relationship with Halliburton. I learned that his ex wife is not only the daughter of a well connected cia person but that she is the granddaughter of the founder of skull and bones. I don't understand why factual information is ct. Unfolding facts are good enough. How anyone interprets or investigates is up to them. .but the facts alone continue to keep this entire thing in the wtf category.

[Turborama]

106. The results of the creative speculaton your OP generated

Trouble is, some of the "facts" are totally wrong and you've got it mixed up.

There's no Skull and Bones connection. It was just a name coincidence dug up by a poster and thrown at the wall to see if it would stick, see post #98.

And Ruslan (not Rusian, btw) wasn't married to Katherine Russell. She's the widow of Tamerlan Tsarnaev.

[FarCenter]

109. Ruslan Tsarni (Tsarnaev then) was married to Samantha Ankara Fuller, daughter of Graham Fuller, CIA

Graham Fuller was, among other things, station chief in Kabul.

Katherine Russell is the grandaughter of a Yale graduate and member of Skull and Bones. But her grandfather is not a direct descendent of the Russell who founded Skull and Bones. However they almost certainly descend from the Russell family members who founded Yale and were prominent Congregationalist clergy in the early days of Connecticutt. In particular, the family has a habit of reusing first names like William and Samuel from generation to generation.

[Turborama]

113. I don't need correcting about who married who, and the rest is just speculation ETA

In fact, there's no reliable source to back up this story about Samantha Ankara Fuller, either.

As it stands, it's all just speculation, and some of it has been quite creative.

[FarCenter]

117. Boston terror suspects uncle was married to CIA officer's daughter and even shared a home with the a

He told Al-Monitor that his daughter, Samantha, was married to Ruslan, whose surname was then Tsarnaev, for three to four years in the 1990s.

The couple divorced in 1999 more than ten years after he left the agency in 1987.

'Samantha was married to Ruslan Tsarnaev (Tsarni) for 3-4 years, and they lived in Bishkek for one year where Samantha was working for Price Waterhouse on privatization projects,' Mr Fuller said.

'They also lived in our house in [Maryland] for a year or so and they were divorced in 1999, I believe. I, of course, retired from CIA in 1987 and had moved on to working as a senior political scientist for RAND.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2315929/Boston-terror-suspects-uncle-married-CIA-officers-daughter-shared-home-agent.html


http://backchannel.al-monitor.com/index.php/2013/04/5090/former-cia-officer-absurd-to-link-uncle-of-boston-suspects-agency-over-daughters-brief-marriage/

[Turborama]

121. OK, thanks for the link

But, so what?

[FarCenter]

123. So the Russian warning was ignored because they are relatives of our friend Ruslan.

There is also another brother with the last name of Tsarni. Chechens work as translators and analysts at CIA and NSA or subcontractors of those organizations. They live where you'd live if you wanted to be able to commute to either Ft Meade or McLain.

[Turborama]

125. Ah, so that's your conspiracy theory. Thanks for answering. n/t

[xiamiam]

128. what this all means is anyones guess..speculating is one thing

and then attempting to built a ct is another.. sharing information and discussing that information is necessary and I think responsible. if you don't think so, there are a lot of other threads which are attention worthy. It is one of the great things about du, new info and news every day.

[Turborama]

130. The post I was replying to was obviously a theory about a conspiracy. n/t

[Warren Stupidity]

146. Perhaps somebody is trying to make the case that you are engaged in wild ct speculation

in order to strengthen a position being argued in the hosts forum?

[texanwitch]

110. You are not kidding.

One big wtf.

I think it is harder hide infomation with internet.

[HiPointDem]

114. she's not the granddaughter of the founder of s&b & no one said that. she's granddaughter of

a member. the founder was born in 1809.

if you're going to talk facts, you need to read & research more carefully.

[xiamiam]

126. sorry..guess I misread one of the posts on this thread

I didn't say I researched it.. I posted this thread to see what other duers knew or had to say about it. I learned about this this am.. googled a little..posted this thread..and went to do errands. I would like to know, but at this point, I do not know much of anything or if this is even relevant. More will be revealed, I hope.

[HiPointDem]

127. it was mine, & i didn't say that. just want to make that clear. i just noted that the founder of

S&B was a russell. and then i researched it. there's no relation unless its before the 1700s.

[grasswire]

136. when I saw S&B and the Russell name...

...I immediately thought of the powerful Russell family. I'm glad you clarified the connection.

I wonder how much of this the Washington press corps is discussing at the water cooler.

[sabrina 1]

135. Don't worry about the usual suspects who try to squash all discussion of facts whenever

they, for some unknown reason, fear such discussions. The tactic is to refer to those with intelligence enough to absorb as many FACTS as possible, as CTs. My own theory is that it is THEY who are the CTs. Anyone who won't accept facts IS a CT.

The sheer irony of calling people discussing FACTS as they are revealed, CTs is simply stunning. This tactic began after 9/11 in an effort, one which has spectacularly failed, to censor all discussion of that tragedy. It failed because people are intelligent. They will not stop asking questions until they receive answers that are believable. Polls show that a majority of people, eg, do not believe the Bush official story of 9/11. That does not mean they have any theories of their own, it simply means something stinks about the official story and it doesn't take a genius to see the reasons why.

The information about Ruslan appears to be factual. Those laughingly trying to call 'facts' CTs demonstrate how totally illogical those who want to censor all conversations about events like have become.

Just ignore them and so long as you present facts, you have nothing to worry about.

Just remember, it isn't the one presenting facts who is the CT, it is the one denying the facts are trying to cover them up who is the CT!

[William Seger]

142. Baloney. I've never seen ANYONE fitting that description called a "conspiracy theorist"

> The tactic is to refer to those with intelligence enough to absorb as many FACTS as possible, as CTs.

No, the generally accepted definition of a "conspiracy theorist" is someone who proselytizes implausible and unsubstantiated paranoid speculations about conspiracies as if they are facts, because they are incapable of telling the difference. In this case, CTs claim that Fuller recruited the Tsarneavs to do the bombing. In the case of 9/11, CTs claim 9/11 was an "inside job." These people are not "asking questions" except as a rhetorical device; they believe they already have the answers, and it's completely impossible to convince them that their unsubstantiated answers are highly implausible. Any such attempt is called an attempt to "censor all discussion."

If that's not you, then congratulations, you are not a "conspiracy theorist."

[Fumesucker]

145. It's happening right on this thread

The fact is there are a lot of DUers who really like "Uncle Ruslan" because he got out there and told them what they wanted to hear. Now those same posters are having a conniption fit because someone dared to research "Uncle Ruslan" in the same manner the rest of the Tsarnaev family is being scrutinized.

[Warren Stupidity]

147. +1

[William Seger]

148. Baloney

Ruslan Tsarni was married to Samantha Fuller for about three years, ending in 1999. Fuller's father retired from the CIA in 1987.

Okay, so what? Tell me why that's "very odd" or "highly significant" or even "VERY interesting" without sounding like a conspiracy theorist.

[Fumesucker]

151. I do think it's interesting, like I think W's cousin calling the 2000 election on Fox interesting

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Prescott_Ellis

No idea what's going on here if anything at all but the web of connections between people is sometimes significant and sometimes not.

Believing all odd things are coincidences is just as silly as believing they are never coincidences.

[xiamiam]

152. lets hope those who are investigating this are a bit more curious

there may be nothing but we don't know that. We may never find out but I'm quite amazed at this turn of events re the CIA and Halliburton and Ruslan. If it all seems just fine to you, so be it. Something is not right here.is my gut instinct..and although I'm not sure what it is, I have a feeling that much more will be revealed. Nothing will ever be discovered, however, if questions go unasked.

[William Seger]

154. Let's hope that those who are investigating this

... don't go making accusations until they have something substantive to base those accusations on, and that they won't be accused of being "in on it" if they don't.

[xiamiam]

156. I haven't seen any accusations or theories..I have seen legitimate connections which raise questions

yet you suggest that to question those connections is a ct.. why?.. to what end is unknowing beneficial? stay there if you must but I am actually hoping that this does not have any merit or substance but unlike you, I am also unwilling to just accept it as a coincidence until someone who actually investigates determines that.

[William Seger]

167. Exactly the same kind of "legitimate connections" that Glen Beck uses (n/t)

[xiamiam]

169. what are you talking about? say something legitimate

which has something to do with the thread ..which is a fact. I really don't care if you believe it or not. There are plenty of people investigating this right now which are of much more interest to me than trying to convince someone that the world is not flat.

[HiPointDem]

161. they've already made unfounded accusations, what are you talking about. like the young one

shooting it out at the boat.

except he didn't have a gun.

oops.

the pair robbed a 711, except they didn't.

oops.

[xiamiam]

162. i was talking about speculation in this thread

responding to the post about weaving conspiracy theories from facts

[William Seger]

165. "They" who? And what does that have to do with the topic? (n/t)

[HiPointDem]

166. read your own bloody post

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2775875

[William Seger]

168. Those accusations were made by the authorities investigating?

Or the knee-jerk gotta-be-first media? And you didn't answer what it had to do with the topic.

[sabrina 1]

150. I have not seen anyone do more than comment on the FACT that this is an interesting piece

of information. And before anyone could even get beyond that here, the CT mantra was introduced.

I am not concerned about what WHAT people call me, frankly. I am only concerned with censorship which is an evil far greater than a few people speculating, no matter how wrong, on an issue. Correct it if it's wrong, but censorship is the goal of these CTs who are in capable of seeing the difference between FACTS being discussed and a major threat to the country. THAT is why I call THEM CTs. Fear is what drives them. They've been around since 9/11 desperately trying to force people to accept every word we were told by Bush.

[William Seger]

153. Well, I have

The first I heard of this was a link posted in CS to a conspiracist site called MadCow Morning News, to an article by conspiracist Daniel Hopsicker, who opined, "The discovery that Uncle Ruslan Tsarni had spy connections that go far deeper than had been previously known is ironic, especially since the mainstrean media's focus yesterday was on a feverish search to find who might have recruited the Tsarnaev brothers."

For some strange reason, the same people who find this "very interesting" seem to be the same people who think 9/11 was an inside job.

Now your turn: Show me somewhere that someone tried to "censor" you.

[sabrina 1]

155. So now if someone finds a story 'interesting' they are a CT. This is what I meant, thanks for

the demonstration. Censorship is evil. We are adults, fyi, and can absorb information without net nannies rushing to suppress every story, in this case the story is TRUE, that for some reason they think the rest of us poor, ignorant schmucks should not have access to.

I have no idea who or what you are talking about. What is CS? I follow NEWS, and no amount of name-calling, personal attacks, snide implications etc has or ever will stop people from exercising their right to read and determine for themselves without the input of what to me are and always have been, paranoid net nannies who seem to think THEY know what is best for all of us. I actually prefer CTs to authoritarian censors any day.

[William Seger]

160. I already gave you my definition of CTist,

... and I gave you an example from the Creative Speculation group. I couldn't care less about what "information" you "absorb" from conspiracy sites and conspiracy hucksters like Hopsicker, or even what conclusions you draw from it. If that's all you were doing, who would even know, much less care?

I'm still waiting for you to point to this "censorship," and I still don't see any "net nannies rushing to suppress" this story. On the one hand, you say, "I am not concerned about what WHAT people call me, frankly." On the other hand, just because someone points out that this particular connect-a-dot game appears to be pretty ridiculous and that it is being promoted by conspiracy theorists, you start screaming about censorship and suppression and personal attacks. If you can't stand the heat...

[H2O Man]

159. I agree.

It's a giggle to see how some of those characters invest so much time & energy on threads like this ..... including one fellow who posts "this is bs -- I'm out of here," but continues to post on and on.

Sometimes, a good OP (like this one) reminds me of fly-paper .....