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kentuck

(110,950 posts)
Mon Apr 29, 2013, 01:58 PM Apr 2013

Is there anything a President could do to be declared a war criminal??

After recent years, I wonder whether any President can get away with anything so long as it is done in the name of national security or "keeping our nation safe"?

As we now know, the Geneva Convention Rules do not apply to America, only to others. But you can bet your ass that if any of our troops were tortured in a similar way that we tortured prisoners, we would be crying to the United Nations to hold the torturers accountable. That's just the way it is.

Our moral standing in the world is almost nil. George W Bush destroyed it and Barack Obama has not restored it.

If we used chemical weapons on an enemy, what would be the excuse? Oh, we wouldn't do that, would we? I have become cynically numb...

36 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Is there anything a President could do to be declared a war criminal?? (Original Post) kentuck Apr 2013 OP
Not by DU as long as its a dem. morningfog Apr 2013 #1
You mean like Mussolini? Or Hitler? Or Stalin? Or the Khmer Rouge (pol pot) geckosfeet Apr 2013 #2
Everything Hitler did was legal loyalsister Apr 2013 #28
Legal by the standards of their countries. But the acts perpetrated in their names geckosfeet Apr 2013 #33
Yes loyalsister Apr 2013 #34
lie a nation into war by ginning up a wmd scenario and then torturing .....oh, nevermind spanone Apr 2013 #3
Lose a war of conquest and be taken over in turn. Joseph Ledger Apr 2013 #4
Probably if he passed a socialized medical program or taxed the wealthy at 1950s levels Orrex Apr 2013 #5
Depends what you mean by "Declared a war criminal". I've declared Bush a war criminal several times stevenleser Apr 2013 #6
True. kentuck Apr 2013 #8
Most other nations and the UN already consider him one. He has been told that If he travels overseas stevenleser Apr 2013 #9
Well, that's true... kentuck Apr 2013 #12
Where are your links to your claims? former9thward Apr 2013 #16
I recall reading that Bush postponed or canceled one trip abroad... kentuck Apr 2013 #19
There are tons of links about this. Here is one stevenleser Apr 2013 #21
But there is nothing at that link about any government agency. former9thward Apr 2013 #22
The original message to which you responded had a quote from the UN Secretary General stevenleser Apr 2013 #23
The quote did not mean anything. former9thward Apr 2013 #27
The quote meant a lot. It was an honest assessment by the head of the UN. stevenleser Apr 2013 #30
You are deliberately trying to create facts. former9thward Apr 2013 #31
I didnt make up the head of the UN saying that. I didnt write the articles on why Bush didnt travel. stevenleser Apr 2013 #32
(1) lose a war to an enemy who captures him; (2) commit war crimes against the American people en geek tragedy Apr 2013 #7
that is agood assessment arely staircase Apr 2013 #14
Sure: support and enable a war that big business actually opposed. Lizzie Poppet Apr 2013 #10
Anyone can declare anyone to be anything. MineralMan Apr 2013 #11
you think the current one should be? arely staircase Apr 2013 #13
I don't know that there is any evidence Obama has done the same things that Bush done? kentuck Apr 2013 #15
ok, just asking. and to answer your OP question arely staircase Apr 2013 #20
Every thing is done in a carefully calculated manner. jonthebru Apr 2013 #17
Nope libodem Apr 2013 #18
yes PD Turk Apr 2013 #24
Maybe, if we were defeated treestar Apr 2013 #25
Nixon said it to David Frost, "When the President does it, it isn't illegal." leveymg Apr 2013 #26
no. only in the context of some kind of revolution would that ever happen. HiPointDem Apr 2013 #29
Declare war on Poverty n2doc Apr 2013 #35
Don't you know that when the president does it, that means it's not illegal? Blue_In_AK Apr 2013 #36
 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
1. Not by DU as long as its a dem.
Mon Apr 29, 2013, 02:02 PM
Apr 2013

But, more seriously, no. I think they are immune to that sort of accountability.

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
28. Everything Hitler did was legal
Mon Apr 29, 2013, 06:29 PM
Apr 2013

Likewise, the Iraq war was implemented after the law calling for it was passed.

geckosfeet

(9,644 posts)
33. Legal by the standards of their countries. But the acts perpetrated in their names
Mon Apr 29, 2013, 08:38 PM
Apr 2013

were crimes by any standard of humanity.

This is the nature of war. Nationalistic fervor incites humans to commit atrocities upon other humans and justify and rationalize it by all the mechanisms provided by and through the state.

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
34. Yes
Mon Apr 29, 2013, 08:45 PM
Apr 2013

That is why the citizens in this country have no standing to prosecute Bush. The wars were endorsed by the people WE elected.

Orrex

(63,085 posts)
5. Probably if he passed a socialized medical program or taxed the wealthy at 1950s levels
Mon Apr 29, 2013, 02:16 PM
Apr 2013

Of course, he'd be impeached long before that, so...

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
6. Depends what you mean by "Declared a war criminal". I've declared Bush a war criminal several times
Mon Apr 29, 2013, 02:22 PM
Apr 2013

in print and on the air.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
9. Most other nations and the UN already consider him one. He has been told that If he travels overseas
Mon Apr 29, 2013, 02:30 PM
Apr 2013

he is going to be arrested and tried for war crimes.

Then secretary general Kofi Annan said that the Iraq war was illegal. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/3661134.stm

He walked that back some later but everyone knew he meant it when he said it because it was true.

kentuck

(110,950 posts)
12. Well, that's true...
Mon Apr 29, 2013, 02:32 PM
Apr 2013
So what would it take for the American people at large to declare him a war criminal?

former9thward

(31,802 posts)
16. Where are your links to your claims?
Mon Apr 29, 2013, 02:44 PM
Apr 2013

Where has the UN declared him to be a war criminal? Bush has been out of the country many times to give speeches since 2009. Where is your link that he will be arrested? People love to throw aground the phrase war criminal but they are unable to cite any specific laws or mechanisms on how these laws would be enforced. Or is it just a slogan?

kentuck

(110,950 posts)
19. I recall reading that Bush postponed or canceled one trip abroad...
Mon Apr 29, 2013, 02:52 PM
Apr 2013

for that very reason. Unfortunately, I do not have a link?

former9thward

(31,802 posts)
22. But there is nothing at that link about any government agency.
Mon Apr 29, 2013, 04:53 PM
Apr 2013

No evidence an actual government would move to arrest him. Citizen groups can't arrest people. Also no link that the UN says he is a war criminal. Look I think the war in Iraq was not justified but I also know that no country is going to arrest a former U.S. president. I live in real life. Others may differ.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
23. The original message to which you responded had a quote from the UN Secretary General
Mon Apr 29, 2013, 05:25 PM
Apr 2013

And the guy had to cancel a trip because of the threat of prosecution.

That is the real world.

former9thward

(31,802 posts)
27. The quote did not mean anything.
Mon Apr 29, 2013, 06:03 PM
Apr 2013

It had no legal effect. The member nations have to vote. They didn't. Someone in congress can stand up and say anything. Without a law being passed it means nothing. I don't know why he canceled but there is no evidence that he would seriously be prosecuted. I live in the real world. Don't like to base my views on what I wish things to be.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
30. The quote meant a lot. It was an honest assessment by the head of the UN.
Mon Apr 29, 2013, 07:46 PM
Apr 2013

You can try to pretend it didnt mean anything. But when Heads of state say something about their country and when the head of the UN makes a comment about international law, it means something.

You keep talking about the real world. Your claiming you live in it means nothing. You are deliberately ignoring facts.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
32. I didnt make up the head of the UN saying that. I didnt write the articles on why Bush didnt travel.
Mon Apr 29, 2013, 08:12 PM
Apr 2013

You are selectively ignoring facts.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
7. (1) lose a war to an enemy who captures him; (2) commit war crimes against the American people en
Mon Apr 29, 2013, 02:24 PM
Apr 2013

masse.

Aside from that, no. Just like no Soviet, Russian, Chinese, British, French, Indian, Pakistani, etc head of state has ever been prosecuted by their own state for crimes committed against others.

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
14. that is agood assessment
Mon Apr 29, 2013, 02:37 PM
Apr 2013

of course if the president was committing war crimes against americans en masse that would imply a civil war is underway, and in that case it we would be back to your point one. if the president's side won the civil war, no trial. if he lost - war crimes trial.

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
10. Sure: support and enable a war that big business actually opposed.
Mon Apr 29, 2013, 02:31 PM
Apr 2013

Poor fucker would be wearing an orange jumpsuit in a matter of weeks...

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
11. Anyone can declare anyone to be anything.
Mon Apr 29, 2013, 02:32 PM
Apr 2013

I don't think that's what you mean, really. If the question is, as it should be, is there any President who will be charged and convicted of being a war criminal, then that is unlikely in the extreme. It won't happen, in the case of Bush or any other President. Why? Precedent. That precedent will not be set with regard to any US President.

kentuck

(110,950 posts)
15. I don't know that there is any evidence Obama has done the same things that Bush done?
Mon Apr 29, 2013, 02:40 PM
Apr 2013

I don't think the torture or rendition policies are still in place? A lot of unacceptable things happen when you are at war.

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
20. ok, just asking. and to answer your OP question
Mon Apr 29, 2013, 02:54 PM
Apr 2013

I don't see it happening, ever. Unless there was a civil war in which war crimes were committed and the president's side lost. I do think that presidents like bush, who waged a war of aggression, in addition to the torture (both clearly war crimes) can find themselves unable to travel abroad, like Kissinger or Pinochet. but bush doesn't give a shit about traveling abroad anyway. rendition would probably be difficult to prosecute as a war crime given the cover your ass requirement that the country the person is being sent to promise not to torture him. even though that is bullshit, it would be hard to prove.

jonthebru

(1,034 posts)
17. Every thing is done in a carefully calculated manner.
Mon Apr 29, 2013, 02:49 PM
Apr 2013

They cover their asses quite well.

So the easy answer is probably not.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
25. Maybe, if we were defeated
Mon Apr 29, 2013, 05:47 PM
Apr 2013

Are you wishing that on us?

I was listening to the BBC news today - some of this stuff is America-centric. Find out what is going on in the rest of the world, and other countries do some pretty bad things, too.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
26. Nixon said it to David Frost, "When the President does it, it isn't illegal."
Mon Apr 29, 2013, 05:59 PM
Apr 2013

I hate to say it, law is simply the exercise of political power. Maybe, it's always been that way with the truly powerful in America and elsewhere.

Blue_In_AK

(46,436 posts)
36. Don't you know that when the president does it, that means it's not illegal?
Mon Apr 29, 2013, 08:51 PM
Apr 2013

Isn't that what Tricky Dick said? And he would know.

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