Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

KansDem

(28,498 posts)
Mon Apr 29, 2013, 10:47 AM Apr 2013

Why are we holding detainees in GitMo for over a decade without charges?

From "DemocracyNow!"

The New York Times has weighed in on another aspect of George W. Bush’s legacy: the prison at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba. In an editorial, The Times editorial board said Guantánamo was "essentially a political prison." They wrote: "That prison should never have been opened. It was nothing more than Mr. Bush’s attempt to evade accountability by placing prisoners in another country." Meanwhile, Kenneth Wainstein, who was the top national security official at the Justice Department under Bush, told The New York Times an "exit strategy" is needed for the prison. Officials now admit 93 out of 166 prisoners are participating in a hunger strike at Guantánamo, while lawyers for the prisoners say nearly all prisoners are taking part. One attorney said the hunger strikers have despaired as Obama has failed to deliver on vows to close the prison. The lawyer said: "Many innocent men have chosen death over a life of unjust indefinite detention."

http://www.democracynow.org/2013/4/26/headlines#4264




OBL is dead; the Iraq invasion turned up no WMDs; Afghanistan is a cluster-folly; so why keep these people in prison?
16 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies

SoCalDem

(103,856 posts)
1. Because we have tormented them for a decade and we are afraid
Mon Apr 29, 2013, 10:49 AM
Apr 2013

Afraid to release them and of what they might do as retaliation.

dipsydoodle

(42,239 posts)
2. Lead, Follow, or Get Outta The Way
Mon Apr 29, 2013, 10:52 AM
Apr 2013

Years ago I had a No Fear tee shirt with on it but it wasn't quite as polite.

SoCalDem

(103,856 posts)
5. Yep.. They would become media stars on Al Jazeera
Mon Apr 29, 2013, 10:54 AM
Apr 2013

and their part of the world would go NUTS, when they heard what was done to them..

 

Coyotl

(15,262 posts)
6. And every other media outlet worldwide.
Mon Apr 29, 2013, 10:58 AM
Apr 2013

There would be films, books, you name it.

Bottom line, the truth would come out.

KansDem

(28,498 posts)
9. I was suspecting this...
Mon Apr 29, 2013, 11:04 AM
Apr 2013
Bottom line, the truth would come out.

I suspect these detainees weren't just rounded up in raids and carted off to GitMo. Rather, they were selected because of their knowledge. I suspect these individuals know something about the Iraq invasion and US involvement in the mid-east that US officials don't want made public.

If they ever got out and started talking to the world media, it would make the US look very, very bad; worse than holding them in prison for over a decade without charges...

former9thward

(31,970 posts)
14. Almost none of them have been held a decade.
Mon Apr 29, 2013, 01:16 PM
Apr 2013

There have been 779 people held at Gitmo. There are 166 currently held. So the vast majority have been released. How come they aren't talking to the media? Many of the remaining are there because their home country and no other country will accept them.

http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/wp-content/uploads/pdf/USLS-Fact-Sheet-Gitmo-Numbers.pdf

dixiegrrrrl

(60,010 posts)
16. " they were selected because of their knowledge"
Mon Apr 29, 2013, 05:26 PM
Apr 2013

Actually, some of the ones at Gitmo, and others at the various black sites the US has, were/are the victims of tribal revenge and/or a bounty. Esp. in Afghanistan, people were grabbed because the US would pay a bounty for anyone turned in as a terroist.
so tribal scores got settled.
Quite a few ( the number varies) of the Gitmo prisoners have been cleared of wrong doing and ordered to be relased by the courts, as long as 8 years ago. Yet they have not been released, despite being found innocent.
The problem for the US is indeed what the captives can tell about all the torture, a subject that past and present goverments do not want to be made public.
Important to note: how many Congress people are interested in ending Gitmo and ending the ongoing suffering of these captives.

right....dead silence.

And..the number of people on a hunger strike is now 130, according to various sources, via Twitter.

 

Coyotl

(15,262 posts)
3. Because the USG abandoned its principles and the rule of law.
Mon Apr 29, 2013, 10:52 AM
Apr 2013

And one day, the world will hold the political leaders to account for their war crimes.

 

think

(11,641 posts)
12. Yes and no
Mon Apr 29, 2013, 11:39 AM
Apr 2013

Yes. The USG abandoned the rule of law and its principles on many occasions over the existence of the nation. Some of the most egregious breaks in the morals & laws include what transpired and continues to transpire at Gitmo.

But No. These political leaders are never held accountable and many are still held in reverence and reappointed by succeeding administrations or given lucrative jobs espousing propaganda on the TeeVee and other media outlets.

Case in point. Oliver North:

Recently:

Fox's Oliver North Pushes Long-Debunked WMD Conspiracy Theory To Justify The Iraq War

During an America's Newsroom segment on the 10-year anniversary of the Iraq war, North explained why he thought the war was "worth it," saying: "We got rid of a brutal despot who used chemical and biological weapons against his own people. Weapons of mass destruction that he probably exported to Sudan before we got there."...

Full article:
http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/03/20/foxs-oliver-north-pushes-long-debunked-wmd-cons/193152


Fox's Oliver North Attacks Obama Over Visit To Boston For Marathon Memorial Service
Fox News host Oliver North is attacking President Barack Obama for visiting Boston to attend a memorial service for the victims of the Boston Marathon bombing, suggesting that his visit could hurt the bombing investigation.

North wrote on his Twitter account: "How many law officers were pulled off the marathon massacre investigation to provide protection for Obama in Boston?"...

Full article:
http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/04/18/foxs-oliver-north-attacks-obama-over-visit-to-b/193682



In the past:

Allegations of involvement with drug traffickers

Allegations were made, most notably by the Kerry Subcommittee, that North and other senior officials created a privatized Contra network that attracted drug traffickers looking for cover for their operations, then turned a blind eye to repeated reports of drug smuggling related to the Contras, and actively worked with known drug smugglers such as Panamanian dictator Manuel Noriega to assist the Contras.[18] Most Contra associates found guilty of trafficking by the Kerry Committee were involved in the supply chain (ostensibly for "humanitarian goods," though the supply chain was later found to have serviced the transport of arms), which had been set up by North. Organizations and individuals involved in the supply chain under investigation for trafficking included the company SETCO (operated by large-scale trafficker Juan Matta-Ballesteros), the fruit company Frigorificos de Puntarenas, rancher John Hull, and several Cuban Exiles; North and other US government officials were criticized by the Kerry Report for their practice of "ticket punching" for these parties, whereby people under active investigation for drug trafficking were given cover and pay by joining in the Contra supply chain. In addition to the Kerry Committee's investigation, the Costa Rican government of Nobel-Prize winner Óscar Arias conducted an investigation of Contra-related drug trafficking, and as a result of this investigation, North and several other US Government officials were permanently banned from entering Costa Rica....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_North#Allegations_of_involvement_with_drug_traffickers


Rex 84

Rex 84, short for Readiness Exercise 1984, was an alleged secretive "scenario and drill" developed by the United States federal government to suspend the United States Constitution, declare martial law, place military commanders in charge of state and local governments, and detain large numbers of American citizens who are deemed to be "national security threats", in the event that the President declares a "State of National Emergency". The plan states, events causing such a declaration would be widespread U.S. opposition to a U.S. military invasion abroad, such as if the United States were to directly invade Central America.[1][2][3][4][5] To combat what the government perceived as "subversive activities", the plan also authorized the military to direct ordered movements of civilian populations at state and regional levels.[6]

Rex 84 was supposedly written by Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North, who was both National Security Council White House Aide, and NSC liaison to the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), and John Brinkerhoff, the deputy director of "national preparedness" programs for the FEMA. They patterned the plan on a 1970 report written by FEMA chief Louis Giuffrida, at the Army War College, which proposed the detention of up to 21 million "American Negroes", if there were a black militant uprising in the United States.[1][7] Existence of a master military contingency plan (of which REX-84 was a part), "Garden Plot" and a similar earlier exercise, "Lantern Spike", were originally revealed by journalist Ron Ridenhour, who summarized his findings in an article in CounterSpy.[8]

Transcripts from the Iran-Contra Hearings in 1987 record the following dialogue between Congressman Jack Brooks, Oliver North's attorney Brendan Sullivan and Senator Daniel Inouye, the Democratic Chair of the joint Senate-House Committee:[9]

[Congressman Jack] Brooks: Colonel North, in your work at the N.S.C. were you not assigned, at one time, to work on plans for the continuity of government in the event of a major disaster?

Brendan Sullivan [North's counsel, agitatedly]: Mr. Chairman?

[Senator Daniel] Inouye: I believe that question touches upon a highly sensitive and classified area so may I request that you not touch upon that?

Brooks: I was particularly concerned, Mr. Chairman, because I read in Miami papers, and several others, that there had been a plan developed, by that same agency, a contingency plan in the event of emergency, that would suspend the American constitution. And I was deeply concerned about it and wondered if that was an area in which he had worked. I believe that it was and I wanted to get his confirmation.
Inouye: May I most respectfully request that that matter not be touched upon at this stage. If we wish to get into this, I'm certain arrangements can be made for an executive session.

Conspiracy theorists believe that exercises similar to Rex 84 have happened in the past.[10] For example, from 1967 to 1971 the FBI kept a list of over 100,000 persons to be rounded up as subversive, dubbed the "ADEX" list.[11]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_84


 

AnotherMcIntosh

(11,064 posts)
7. It is used by the powers-that-be to set one example of how far they are willing to go
Mon Apr 29, 2013, 10:59 AM
Apr 2013

in disregarding due process of law, common decency, and common sense.

 

AngryAmish

(25,704 posts)
8. That is a dirty, filthy lie
Mon Apr 29, 2013, 11:02 AM
Apr 2013

Our President vowed during his first campaign to close Gitmo. It must be closed by now.

librechik

(30,674 posts)
10. Republicans in charge in the House. Even if Dems have a slim majority.
Mon Apr 29, 2013, 11:07 AM
Apr 2013

Obama said close it down, they said no way.

Until that changes, which thanks to gerrymandering, it won't, we will continue to torture these LARGELY CLEARED FOR RELEASE people.

 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
13. Because we turned in to the fascist bad guys we were supposed to have been fighting.
Mon Apr 29, 2013, 12:46 PM
Apr 2013

The allies won WWII, but the fascists won the larger war for global domination.

Festivito

(13,452 posts)
15. Because Republicans are holding up the money we need to process their release.
Mon Apr 29, 2013, 01:16 PM
Apr 2013

Republicans have nothing to gain by allowing the release of these people, so they will continue to block our ability to release them.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Why are we holding detain...