President Pressed Patrick on 'Shelter-in-Place' - '...Point at Which it’s No Good Anymore.’

[bigtree]

from the Boston Globe:


102 hours in pursuit of Marathon suspects

___ There was a tight-lipped blend of determination and disappointment as Governor Patrick stepped up to a bouquet of microphones as evening took hold. The Commonwealth’s capital had been essentially locked down. Streets were empty. Trains and subways cars stood still. The Red Sox and Bruins had called their games off. The Big Apple Circus was in town, but there were no clowns or elephants or trapeze acrobatics.

But the dragnet had come up empty.

And now the governor was lifting the so-called “shelter in place’’ order. Remain vigilant, he advised. But life’s routine, even with nerves rubbed raw, had to resume.

It was hardly a cavalier decision. Earlier in the day, he had spoken with Obama, who had already pledged the full support of the US government.

Patrick recalled the conversation: “He said, ‘Have you thought about the shelter in place request?’ And I said yes. He said, ‘There’s a point at which it’s no good anymore.’ That’s a paraphrase. ‘There’s a point at which we should consider whether it should continue.’ I said, ‘I get that.’ ’’

read more: http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/04/28/bombreconstruct/VbSZhzHm35yR88EVmVdbDM/story.html?s_campaign=sm_tw

[Fumesucker]

1. Even the Boston Globe is calling it a lockdown?

Hmmm.. I've been informed many times here on DU that it was completely voluntary, now the Boston Globe is catapulting the propaganda.

[bigtree]

2. 'essentially'

[Fumesucker]

4. Which means in everything but name n/t

[MannyGoldstein]

6. It was totally voluntary

I live about a mile from where the craziness was happening last week - I could go out, drive, do whatever I wanted. The Dunkin Donuts in Watertown Center was open perhaps a quarter mile from ground zero (boat zero?).

[Fumesucker]

8. Argue with the Globe, it's their terminology not mine

Just a day or so ago the same thing was done in Colorado for an alleged shoplifter.

Yes, I've heard all the crap about how he was a dangerous criminal and so on but only 65% of murder cases in the US are cleared with a conviction so we have quite literally thousands of murderers walking around our streets at any given moment.

You in Boston are lucky, you evidently have a reasonably competent and somewhat disciplined police force, that is by no means the case everywhere in the country. There's plenty of police forces that are out of control cowboys ready to shoot up anything that moves, I think the LAPD gave us a really good demonstration of that not too long ago.

Those out of control police forces are going to take this whole shelter in place thing and run with it, give them an inch and they'll take a few light years. I'm a little surprised that you don't seem able to see this.

[MannyGoldstein]

10. I woke up that Friday, saw a video and read accounts of guys throwing bombs and

brazenly attacking police at the places I frequent at least weekly. A madman involved in blowing up innocents, executing a cop, and running over his own brother was on the loose within easy walking distance.

I was pretty worried.

And I was very glad that the cops did what they did.

[Fumesucker]

12. One day difference and I would have been at Centennial Park for the Olympic Bombing

We were there the night before.

So I'm not unfamiliar with the experience of being in the neighborhood of a terrorist bombing.

Statistically I was still in much more danger driving to and from the park than I was while I was in the park.

Rudolph also did at least one "double tap" bombing, that was at a women's health clinic a little north of Atlanta, a bomb went off and then about thirty minutes later another one after rescuers had gathered.

It never occurred to me to be afraid that the (at the time unknown) bomber was going to personally attack me or mine.

Humans really suck at threat assessment, witness the number of people who are scared of flying and yet think nothing of driving to the airport.

[arely staircase]

19. i liked how you just ignored the whole voluntary part

that was awesome

[Fumesucker]

22. As I said, take it up with the Globe

They were the ones who used the term "lockdown".

To the best of my knowledge that paper is written and edited by Bostonians.

[arely staircase]

28. meh, it was only awesome the first time you did it

nt

[Fumesucker]

32. Have you conveyed your displeasure with the terminology to the editors of the Globe?

Somehow I doubt it.

[arely staircase]

33. at the risk of pointing out the obvious

they aren't posting on this board.

but you stating your opinion and then when someone disagrees with it you say "take it up with the Boston Globe" is amusing, to say the least.

[Fumesucker]

34. The OP posted the Globe's article and I used the terminology from it

Why is it a good thing when the Globe says it but a bad one when I follow their authoritative lead?

Indeed, why don't you take it up with the OP if you don't like the terminology, I'm not the one who posted it in the first place.

[arely staircase]

36. lesson in the obvious number 2

you are implying there is something nefarious with asking people to stay indoors while madmen are throwing bombs and shooting at cops. when it is pointed out how silly that is, you hang your entire argument on the Boston Globe's kinda sloppy use of the word "lockdown" (in an otherwise excellent article btw)to describe said request to stay indoors until the mayhem subsides.

weak

funny but weak

[Bluenorthwest]

3. Not to be wildly focused on minutia but last time I looked Big Apple Circus used only dogs and

horses and never an elephant or other large animals. Just a word in defense of the BAC and another reason to wonder how these people get paid to write at all....

[NV Whino]

5. Okay, I have to do this...

Is that considered a dog and pony show?

[sheshe2]

7. Thank you bigtree.

That was an excellent article in the Boston Globe. It fills out details that many do not know! Including the fact that dummies were being fired into the boat.

It was chilling to reread the events and the reactions as it all unfolded.

[newmember]

9. That was after live rounds peppered the boat hull

[Cha]

15. I cried again, she.. it was chilling because it was so well written with so many

details revealed now, that we were practically there with the Police and everyone involved.

This story aims to assemble what is known, and remains to be seen, in one consecutive account.

Indeed!

These are parts that stood out for me..

But the ultimate success of the investigators’ mission — the capture of the suspects, one alive and one dead — depended in equal parts on luck, the heroics of police and civilians, and the startling incompetence of the Tsarnaev brothers themselves. They may have figured out how to kill, but engineering a getaway seemed beyond them.

It was the beginning of days of intense cooperation between local and federal agencies that sometimes turned fractious, but ended with state and city officials praising the FBI’s handling of the case.

What a Mayor you have!

Mayor Thomas M. Menino, who just days before had undergone surgery for a broken leg, checked himself out of Brigham and Women’s Hospital, where many victims were taken, and made his way downtown to the command post, too. The mayor had already missed one of his favorite springtime duties — crowning one of the marathon winners — but he wasn’t going to stay sidelined during an attack on the city he has led for 20 years.

33 year Veteran to the Rescue..

One of the officers rushing to join the fight was Watertown Sergeant Jeffrey Pugliese, a 33-year veteran and a trained firearms instructor. His arrival would turn the tide.

“Police were heroic,” said Jane Dyson of Dexter Avenue. “They stood their ground. They did not retreat an inch.”

Residents universally praised the officers for being polite and helping to maintain a quiet calm over a panicked neighborhood.

Evans was aware of the image of such a large police presence — by one estimate more than 1,000 officers — on the streets of an American city.

“We wanted to make sure people weren’t intimidated by us,’’ said Evans, saying they tried to put people at ease. “We were very careful about not upsetting the public. I felt awful when I looked at some people we asked to leave their house. . . . They were intimidated. We had weaponry, armored cars. We must have been very intimidating.’’

They were doing their job but they did it so exceedingly well in the face of such an extreme cataclysmic situation that went on and on and on.

Props to the Globe Staff!

Thank you again, bigtree, for the most comprehensive article.

[sheshe2]

18. Thank you, Cha.

[bigtree]

23. Boston Globe

. . . has been outstanding; well representative of the spirit and ability of the people of Boston, I think.

Happy to find the President counseling restraint and limits on such a sweeping method of control of the population. Glad to relate that, and, the brilliant coverage in the article, as well.

[Cha]

30. Yes, that was pertinent information in your headline!

Did you see this tweet from Boston Globe found on the obama diary?

The Boston Globe ✔ @BostonGlobe

RT It’s not often a news org gets a shout out from a President. @BostonGlobe says thanks President Obama for last nights’ at #whcd

Thanks again.. The Boston Globe will have more to the story.

[Mopar151]

11. Lockdown is a media buzzword

Copped from prision minituae.

This ain't our 1st rodeo, and we know how to play along and when the cops ;n pols are full of shit. The real sea change has been the newer pols who hate looking like they are full of shit.

[Cha]

13. Thanks for the article, bigtree..

This new information on how it went down is very much appreciated.

[freshwest]

14. Not just Will Pitt, but others who live there have spoken out and are proud of how this was resolved

Just think, as the carjacked Chinese student has explained, they were on their way to Manhattan for more death and mayhem. Boston is owed a debt by NYC and other places these two could have gone to do more mischief. It was worth it. Good going, Boston!

[Cha]

16. K&R! They really are so competent in their jobs, freshwest. They were able

to handle all these throwing of bombs and bullets in high speed time with a minimal amount of innocent lives lost.

The Boston Police Dept and the FBI were outstanding in their jobs.

[freshwest]

17. As Conan O'Brien said about Boston at the WH Correspondents Dinner:

Last edited Mon Apr 29, 2013, 02:51 PM - Edit history (1)

It's been said recently that you don't mess with Boston. As someone who grew up there, I'd like to echo that sentiment. It's really pretty simple. If you're going to pick on a city, don't choose one where nine out of ten people are related to a cop. Don't do it; it's stupid.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/04/28/179626763/obama-and-obrien-take-jabs-at-politics-and-media-highlights

[Cha]

29. Thanks for that freshwest.. I didn't see Conan's segment at the

WHCD. And, the link.. I'll check it out when I have a leisurely moment or two.

[yurbud]

20. It was a judgment call in the heat of the moment. It would have to happen a couple more times to be

something to worry about, or if it was codified in law like the Patriot Act.

Those things coud certainly happen, but don't we have bigger fish to fry?

[zipplewrath]

21. Yes and no

I agree that it was a judgment call, and I think they were basically making this stuff up as they went along. Some of the reaction around here has been hyperbolic in comparison to what ACTUALLY happened.

However, there will be post mortems at many levels about what was done and how. And those lessons will find themselves to other cities. I think it is important that we view this from the stand point of whether this is a power we want to give to our already militarized police forces. There were more than just Boston cops involved. You had national guard and federal forces engaged here. And one can question whether the tactic was particularly successful. Did the suspect seek to hide because of the tactics, or because he was seriously injured?

[WinkyDink]

25. What IS known is that the suspect wasn't FOUND until the residents were ALLOWED out.

A RESIDENT found him, not all the cops in Boston and their militarized cohorts.

But hey---it was an interesting exercise in how the citizenry can be easily and swiftly convinced that not only is Martial Law good for them; it is even worth cheering.

[zipplewrath]

26. Let's avoid the hyperbole

People were "allowed" out through it all. I know people who were inside the zone and a block or so away from most of the action. They came and went at will.

But I also agree, that the effectiveness needs to be discussed. The people CAN be a very good source of investigation. This guy, shot and bleeding, wasn't going to be out "blending in" with the crowd. And he could have taken a hostage FROM a house as much as anywhere else in public. Moving around for this guy was going to be a problem. The public, out and about, were more likely to come across him than cowering in their basements. In some ways, it made it easier for him to move about and find a hiding place since there was less of a chance of bumping into someone, or being seen climbing into a boat.


Quite honestly, this tactic seems to be something more inspired by Hollywood, than any rational consideration of tactical effectiveness.

[WinkyDink]

24. "Shelter in place" = Newspeak.

[brooklynite]

35. Apparently you have no idea what you're talking about...

...but don't let that get in the way of a good polemic phrase.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelter_in_place

http://emergency.cdc.gov/preparedness/shelter/

http://www.nyc.gov/html/oem/html/get_prepared/emergency_sip.shtml

If you're still convinced this is a Police State conspiracy, ask your neighbors in your local CERT team what it means.

[arely staircase]

37. wow

google is your friend

[AnotherMcIntosh]

27. All large cities have murderers at large. Plus other felons.

All police agencies in large cities are involved with mission creep.

The question for the future is whether these "voluntary" lock-downs (aka "shelters in place" for the political spokesmen) are going to only be used to pressure-cooker bombers or any other bombers?

The answer is no.

[freshwest]

31. Random Notes from the Police State by Will Pitt

http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/15895-random-notes-from-the-police-state

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1016&pid=61629

For those who haven't read the entirety of the article, he has some words they need to hear.

[arely staircase]

38. some people aren't interested in reality i am afraid

the confirmation bias is too strong for them to overcome