American made clothes and fabrics: I've seen them going away for 20 some years.

[hedgehog]

When my kids were little, I was able to buy American made clothes easily. Then I had to start searching. Then I had to give up. Gradually, all the fabrics at the fabric store were made overseas. For a long time, I could find sheets made in America. Finally, the last time I looked, I couldn't find any towels made in America.

As near as I can tell, here's what happened: Say a mill can turn out the product at 5% profit. Say a foreign mill offers a 10% profit. The large stockholders, who tend themselves to be institutions, pension funds and investment funds, will push management to push manufacturing overseas to pick up that extra 5%. So will banks offering operating and capital loans. In other words, American operations don't just have to make a profit, they have to make as much or more as the outfit overseas. I've seen it with retailers, too. They started buying from plants overseas, but didn't drop prices accordingly.

One way around this that I can see is some sort of labor tariff - even a gross one based on relative minimum wages. Tossing in a pollution tariff wouldn't hurt, either. All rivers end up in the same ocean; we all breathe the same air.

We might also want to consider penalizing retail establishments over a certain size that fail to ensure proper working conditions at their contractor's plants. When Walmart has to shovel out money top police working conditions overseas, it may reconsider buying its products here, where the government is at least expected to enforce safe working rules.

[jsr]

1. "They started buying from plants overseas, but didn't drop prices accordingly."

This is what happened in almost every product category, not just clothing. That's how billionaires became multi-billlionaires while the rest of us scrambled to find jobs.

[reformist2]

6. Yep. Profit margins have soared. That's why the stock market is so high, while wages are low.

In America, it's better to be an owner than a worker.

[HiPointDem]

23. +1

[bhikkhu]

31. The prices did drop

I don't know how many people remember the 70's, but when I was a kid I do recall that my school uniform pants (just regular cords) cost $20. I had one pair of pants for school, and had to keep them clean enough until wash-day on the weekend. I had two shirts, as those were white polos, and they cost $15 each. I had one pair of shoes at a time growing up; whatever I had, that was it until they were worn out. Shoes cost $20-30.

The point is - now its all made overseas, but the prices are the same after decades of inflation. I still buy shoes for $20-30, 40 years later, and shirts and pants are about the same too. Wages and many other things have gone way up, but the cost of clothing is a really bad example to use.

In any case, that was the story of years ago - what is going on now is different. Currently automation is replacing low-wage work, and automation is driving a return of industry (and some jobs even) to the US.

[snappyturtle]

2. If Richard Wolff were looking at your example of the American

company's profit turning scenario, he would solve it this
way. The company is owned entirely by the workers. No
board of directors or stockholders. The workers decide
where the money (profit) is directed. The company can
then operate and workers survive without having to
satisfy the ever greedy middlemen. I think it's a way out
of our capitalistic mess. imho

Occupying our future: Solutions......:

[hedgehog]

3. The irony here is that ostensibly, many companies are owned by working people -

via pension funds and 401Ks. The problem is that the managers are judged by how much return they make, not how the return is made.

[reformist2]

7. Not so much working people as the upper-middle and upper classes.

They sort of felt bad that factory workers were losing their jobs, but it didn't affect them personally, so they did nothing about it. It's only now that the offshoring has started to threaten *their* jobs, that they are starting to question things...

[MineralMan]

4. That model works fine for smaller scale companies.

It begins to have problems with mid-sized companies, and is just about unworkable with large, nationwide companies. As for eliminating the middlemen or middlewomen, that pretty much ends when you have to ship products beyond the range of your local delivery fleet. In the end, the middle-range to large worker-owned company ends up having to hire management to deal with issues beyond local ones. And that's where the system begins to break down.

Localizing things works, in some cases, but not so much for major durable goods, where the economy of scale comes into play. For example, a manufacturer of, say, washing machines or automobiles, won't be able to profitably manufacture those machines only for a local market. In fact, that manufacturer will be dependent on components, like electric motors and other components, sourced centrally. It's not practical to have an electric motor factory in every regional market.

Worker ownership is great, but doesn't work well for major industries. Once you need to deliver wholesale quantities of complex items, that system is impractical, unfortunately.

[snappyturtle]

8. These issues can be worked around. Need an electric motor? The

employees decide who to buy it from. There's no reason that
a remote employee couldn't have a say in the running of the
company and share in it's profits as well. Answers have to
start somewhere as we all know that those answers are not
forecoming from our politicians, thus gov't. or the corporate
masters whose single goal is to maximize profit for themselves...
and to hell with the little guys that make it happen. imho

[MineralMan]

10. I'm not saying it can't be worked around.

However, with a large scale, the difficulties of sourcing materials and distribution become more and more difficult.

It's far easier for worker-owned companies to thrive on a smaller, local scale. Anything can be done, but competing is another matter. Without laws forcing worker-owned companies, those that appear, except on a smaller scale, will simply not be able to compete. Economy of scale always ends up with end-purchaser pricing favoring the larger, more centralized manufacturer.

A worker-owned bakery, for example, is pretty easy to create, and there are many of them. A worker-owned appliance manufacturer is another matter. I don't know of any, since Amana sold out. And trying to only do business with other worker-owned businesses is just about impossible.

Failing a complete and nationwide re-structuring, I can't see it happening on anything but a smaller scale.

[snappyturtle]

22. I agree with you....really. And, I think it's going to take a lot of time

to re-structure. And, I believe that is a term I've heard Wolff use.
It's a long term,long,long, solution but what's happening now is
literally destroying us. Maybe those who can use this model would
1) survive 2) be happier with their jobs and 3) serve as a model.

[MineralMan]

5. It's not easy, but it's possible, to buy American-Made products.

They'll cost more, but they're available. We still have woolen mills in the US, making all sorts of products. A search for American made towels, too, brings up a number of hits on Google, and you can order online. You'll find one maker and seller at http://www.usab2c.com/category/american_made_towels_made_in_usa

Want American made bed linens? Search for American made sheets. Here's one link you'll find: http://www.cozytownlinens.com/

US-Made fabrics? Check this site out. It lists many sources for all kinds of fabrics made in the US: http://www.apparelsearch.com/world_clothing_industry/united_states/Fabric_Mills_USA.htm

You won't find that stuff at Walmart or JC Penney. You have to look for it and almost always buy it online. But it's there.

The same is true of many products. You'll pay a premium for them, but they're available. You just have to search and order.

[hedgehog]

12. Thank you for the links - I really couldn't find towels or sheets last time!

[MineralMan]

15. Use American made or US made in your searches,

and you'll find the stuff. Just about anything will turn up with a US-made source.

[bettyellen]

9. American made anything, really.

[MineralMan]

11. Again, use "American Made" or "US Made" as part of

your Google search, and you'll find that it's not necessarily true. However, in almost every case, you'll pay more for your goods. It's a matter of priorities for the consumer. If you're willing to pay for American Made products, they're available. For example, you can remodel your kitchen using all American Made cabinets, built by a local craftsman. You'll get great quality over the factory made stuff, but you'll pay way more. That's why those cabinet-makers are mainly building kitchens for the McMansions and even more upscale homes. The typical homeowner simply can't afford them. But, they're available.

There are also US cabinet factories. Here's an online seller of their cabinets: http://cabinetexpress.com/HTML/wolf.html?gclid=CIfp_NXl7bYCFXSVMgod6T0A7w

You can get cabinets from them and have them installed, too. You may even be able to order them from larger home supply outlets. You have to hunt for this stuff. You won't find it at Home Depot, probably, and it will cost more.

[bettyellen]

18. and with clothing, the labeling is misleading- we used to cut clothing in NY and ship it to the

Dominican Republic for assembly- with "made in America" labels. Factory workers were surrounded barbed wire fences, guarded with machine guns while working for scraps. Similar deals were made with the Marianas.
And it's not just India- Honduras is a problem, Vietnam, Korea parts of Russia were. When Africa gets a better infrastructure they will have more awful factories. Hard for a company to have enough reps around to watch every factory- and there's a lot of bribery offered to the reps who do. The companies themselves have to be made to be held responsible. It has to cost them, or they will not step up on compliance.

[MineralMan]

19. I don't buy a lot of clothing in general.

The last thing I bought was a rain poncho. It was Swedish military surplus, and I don't know where it was made. It's really well-made, though, and was a real bargain. Brand new, too, and just $5 at my local farm supply store.

I do a good deal of my clothes shopping at thrift stores, and I do look for made in America labels. I usually find them.

[byeya]

13. Boots: Russell Mocassin; Outdoor clothing: Filson; Running shoes: a few New Balance models(but

the owner is reputed to be a wingnut); some outdoor socks are made in the USA with varying brand names.
I think Allen Edmond shoes still are.
There's not much American out there but what there is is usually high quality.
I try to buy American as much as I can.

[frazzled]

21. For women, Munro American shoes

Expensive, but extremely comfortable, and stylish enough if you aren't looking for sequinned platforms or 5-inch stilettos. Also, they come in many widths and with different lasts:

Don Munro established Munro & Company, Inc., in 1972. It was the successor to New Hampshire-based Connors & Hoffmann Footwear Company’s southern division, which Don set up in 1960 and managed for 12 years. It consisted of three shoe manufacturing plants, all in Arkansas, manufacturing great fitting, comfort shoes for the private label market.

To create new distribution channels and serve new customers, Munro & Company established its own group of brands. In 1984, Munro women’s brand, now known as Munro American, was started, and in 1986, the Child Life company was acquired. Later, in 1991, Munro & Company purchased controlling interest in Jumping Jacks Shoes, of Monett, Mo., and today owns 100% of this leader in the children’s shoe industry.

Munro & Company, Inc. consists of 3 manufacturing facilities and a distribution center, all in Arkansas.The Munro Family, encompassing immediate family members, staff, and the entire workforce, remains committed to its customers with quality shoes that are made in America, and one of the largest selections of sizes and widths in the footwear industry.

http://www.munroshoes.com/about-munro-shoes

?2012

?2013

?2012

?2012

[nc4bo]

14. My mother was an ILGWU rep. and saw the birth of UNITE just before she retired. She's 80 now.

She was a sewing machine operator, putting together clothing lines like Alfred Dunner, etc., at the David Stevens Manufacturing Company in New Jersey saw what was happening in the entire textile industry (AS it was happening) and the union tried to warn any and everyone it could possibly could, to no avail and all on deaf ears.

After all these years, she still gets angry and very, very sad at the demise of the ILGWU and is constantly reminded of it because she receives a small retirement from UNITE or UNITENOW (I'm not sure what they're called now) different topic but has everything to do with outsourcing of the garment/textile industry and the busting down of our unions.

But yea, so much cheaper and more profitable to outsource or offshore. Job creators paying sweatshop wages to sweatshop employees and make huge profits selling their items elsewhere.

It's a vicious, vicious cycle.

[hedgehog]

16. Speaking of vicious, vicious cycles - I used to be able to afford American made goods

when I was a stay-at-home Mom with 6 kids. Now, between wage stagnation and tuition loans, I can't!

[Revanchist]

20. That's the kicker.

I checked into some of the American-made clothing websites and found their prices for jeans to be an average of 3x what I paid for them at Costco. I don't have a job at the moment and my military retirement only goes so far.

[RILib]

17. socks, tops, kitchen appliances

I recently bought some U.S. made socks, Wigwam brand, via EssentialApparel.com. These are lightweight crew socks. I think they make other kinds.

WEK tops for women are U.S. made but the company was bought by some lunatic and now is very erratic about production. If you place an order with them at sweatshirtsusa.com generally nothing happens (fortunately your credit card doesn't get charged.) The only way I can buy these tops is to deal with a retailer who lets me know when they get some.

The original owners of WEK are apparently now OC Cotton, but I can't find out anything about them, including if their stuff is U.S. made.

I always look for U.S.-made when I have to replace a kitchen appliance. They are out there.

[Phentex]

25. I love threads like this...

I always get ideas for new places to shop.

[LiberalElite]

26. KLOGS USA -

Vinyl styles are made in U.S.A. (I think Missouri). Very comfortable but not overly stylish. They also offer many leather styles but they're not made here.

[Politicalboi]

27. Let's hope we don't ignore the profits and jobs with Hemp

Hemp has many uses, and making clothing and such could be a big boom with Hemp. Hemp can fuel our cars, feed our cattle, and clothe us to boot. And it helps with air pollution. Hemp is better than Gold. At least you can eat the outcome of Hemp. All you can do with Gold is make gold utensils but no food to eat. And Hemp comes to you, you don't have to mine it. You KNOW where it is.

[SummerSnow]

28. When i was a kid...

I remember the commercial from them 1970's of the ILGWU .They sung that song ,Look for the union label when you are buying a coat ,dress, or blouse...

Those days are gone

[jsr]

32. .

[SummerSnow]

33. Thank you. I still know the whole song:)

[hedgehog]

29. Looking over this thread, I figured out something -

When the foreign made goods first started coming in , they came in at pretty much the same price for the same quality. Gradually, companies chose to source their goods overseas and it became harder and harder to find American made items in the stores. When all this began, prices and wages in the US were pretty well balanced. I think in general, clothes may have been more costly than today - but today clothes are unusually cheap by historical standards - in both senses of the word! We paid more for shoes, but they were made of leather on lasts and they fit well and wore well. They could even be repaired! Pulling a number out of the air (no time for Google), say it took about 15% of wages to clothe a family. Somewhere along the line, other costs (mortgages, college fees, health care, etc) have risen while wages stagnated. As a result, (pulling another number out of the air), we now allocate say 5% of our income for clothing. Americans can't pay American wages for clothing because out incomes are consumed by other costs.

[csziggy]

30. Levi jeans used to be made in the US

There was a factory in South Georgia not that far from here. Lots of people worked there, made good money, and got good benefits - much better than most other companies provided in Georgia.

Then they moved manufacturing out of the US. I think most of the production from the Georgia plant went to Mexico, but I have not idea where the jeans are made now.

The step-daughter of a friend of mine worked there. She is developmentally slow, but she could sew jeans great. She made really good money at the Levi's place. When they closed, she was unemployed for years. She finally found a job as a clerks in a discount store, but she really couldn't handle it and ended up getting laid off. Since then she has not held a full time job anywhere for any length of time, so she is getting help from the government to survive.

Oh, and the jeans are not as well made anymore. The cloth is much weaker and the construction is terrible. But they cost 2-4 times as much as they did when they were made in South Georgia.

[RILib]

34. Tretorns became trash.

Tretorns are another product that turned into trash. They were comfortable sneakers I wore for decades, but a few years ago they turned into unpadded badly fitting useless junk, on a par with Keds.