"He has voted to ban semi-automatic rifles, pistols and shotguns...."

[Robb]

"He has attempted to make it a federal crime to purchase more than two handguns in a year."

"He has proposed 21-day waiting periods on all gun purchases."

"He has made several attempts to ban centerfire hunting ammunition. When his gun and ammunition bans failed, he fought tooth and nail to protect the gun control lobby’s schemes to bankrupt the American firearm industry."

Who could it be? Some gun-grabbing fringe nutcase, right?

"It’s safe to say that there is not a single outrageous anti-gun position Ted Kennedy has failed to support in his long career."
-- Chris Cox, NRA Institute for Legislative Action, on Ted Kennedy's announcement of his 2008 endorsement of Barack Obama.

We still miss you, Senator. And we're not finished.

[aikoaiko]

1. I'll give you a kick before it drops off the 1st page.

I miss Ted Kennedy, but not because if his positions on gun laws.

[premium]

2. Other than his stance on gun control,

Last edited Sun Apr 28, 2013, 01:59 PM - Edit history (1)

He was a great champion for the 99%'ers, he is truly missed.

[Orrex]

3. Yeah, it's a shame that his position was so extreme

I would like for his position to be the mainstream.

[premium]

5. Me too.

Sen. Ted Kennedy left us far, far too soon, he was always for the little person.
His family's story was one of such tragedy and it goes to his stamina and fortitude to carry on in politics and become such a stalwart man of the people.

I may have disagreed with his position on firearms, but I agreed with just about every other position that was near and dear to him.

R.I.P. Sen. Kennedy.

[baldguy]

9. He was a great champion for America. Period.

His position on reasonable gun control was an essential part of that. Any attempt to qualify his record to say "Other for that..." diminishes his memory and cheapens his accomplishments..

[premium]

12. It does not diminish his memory and cheapen his accomplishments.

I disagreed with what you call his reasonable position on gun control, I call it extreme, that's my opinion which is different than yours.

Other than his position on gun control, he was a champion for America and the 99%'ers.

We can have a difference of opinion without the rancor.

[baldguy]

19. It's not extreme when the majority of Americans support it.

And it's ironically helpful for you to ask for no rancor when you're trying to tarnish Kennedy's memory.

[premium]

20. Back when he proposed those measures,

the majority of Americans didn't support them.

I'm not tarnishing his reputation, you're being a little extreme here, I have a difference of opinion on gun control than he did, that's not tarnishing his reputation, it's a difference of opinion, nothing more, nothing less.

You may not agree with my position on gun control, fine, that's your right, just like I don't agree with yours or the late Sen. Kennedy's position on gun control.

[baldguy]

22. So, by your lights anyone who supported marraige equality 3 or 5 yrs ago is an extremist.

So anything they have to say on the subject should be dismissed. How can you pretend that's not tarnishing their reputation?

This is nothing more than the standard RW looney attack on anyone named "Kennedy". Stop trying to pretend otherwise.

[premium]

26. You've got to be kidding me, right?

You've really jumped the shark on this one.



We're done here.

[baldguy]

36. Your hit&run attack post failed.

[premium]

40. OK. nt.

[billh58]

46. No, it's you

and your NRA-apologist friends who have jumped the "gunz for everyone" shark.

[premium]

50. OK.

[justanidea]

31. The majority of American's do not support banning all semi-auto firearms.

[otohara]

39. The Majority I'm Told

by all the gun nuts is that we don't know shit about guns.

So how would the majority of American's even know what the heck a semi-auto is?
The AS50 looks pretty fucking scary and unless you're a navy seal .... just saying

[Ikonoklast]

60. Get back to me when your two brothers are gunned down in cold blood.

See how you feel about gun control then.

Bet it gets pretty 'extreme', too.

[premium]

61. How do you know I haven't had personal tragedy strike my family?

I have, I just don't talk about it and I sure as hell don't blame a piece of metal, I blame the asshole how brought pain and suffering to my family.
Too nice of a day to get into an argument with you.
Have a great day.

[Ikonoklast]

62. Who's asking for argument?

If the person that caused your family harm didn't have a firearm, would the tragedy have happened?

[premium]

64. Maybe, I don't know,

the asshole could've had a knife, a baseball bat, a pair of scissors, whatever.
Just for the record, it was a close cousin of mine, someone I grew up with, he walked in on a burglary in his home and the dickhead shot him in the head.
This piece of scum shouldn't have even been out of jail, he had an arrest record as long as my arm, some of his convictions were for violent offenses, so, in part, I also blame the justice system for it's failure to keep scum like him off the streets.

At least he was caught, convicted and sent to prison for the rest of his miserable fucking life, but like I said, I don't blame the object of his demise, I blame the asshole who murdered him.

I have such an empty spot in my heart and still tear up whenever I think of him even though it was more than 5 years ago.

[Ikonoklast]

65. Using a gun was his most expedient choice.

But I agree, he was going to use violence no matter what, he seemed to be the type of person whose entire life is a horror show for those that come into contact with him.

I would empty every prison in this country of drug offenders, get them in a treatment program, and fill it up with repeat violent offenders.

Do a crime with a gun, or other deadly weapon? Twenty years mandatory, no parole.

I am sorry for your loss.

I have also lost family to gun violence.

[premium]

70. I wholeheartedly agree with you.

Empty the prisons of non violent drug offenders, end this insane WOD, and sentence every gun crime to very stiff prison sentences.

Thank you and I too, am sorry for your loss. It's rough, they say time heals all wounds, I say, bullshit, time may dull the pain, but it never heals it.

[tblue]

14. So right! There are no 'buts.'

What a gem he was. Fearless and principled and unapologetically progressive, unlike so many in Washington.

[premium]

18. There are differences of opinions,

and this was my difference of opinion with him.
Other than that, I agreed with every other major issue he championed.

[billh58]

47. You and your

Gunner buddies have "differences of opinion" with ALL Democrats who support sane gun control measures.

[premium]

51. I've stated what I believe are sane gun control measures

several times, look them up, or don't, I really don't give a flying damn and I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you over this, too nice of a day to argue with someone who won't see that there are legitimate differences of opinion on issues.
Have a good day.

[Hoyt]

52. He saw firsthand what some loser with an easily accessible gun can do. You guys don't care

as long as you have yours close by.

[premium]

53. Uh huh. See post #51. nt.

[Hoyt]

55. I think it's right wingers who post the car BS.

[premium]

56. Whoosh,

right over your head.

[billh58]

66. Now that WinniSkipper has

been tombstoned, do you and your Gungeon buddies still think that his Chappaquiddick "joke" is funny?

[Hoyt]

67. Maybe so, but your ahole gun buddy is gone, for now.

[billh58]

58. No it is

you right-wing NRA apologists who try the "apples to oranges" bullshit to equate automobile deaths to guns deaths.

And the underhanded reference to Chappaquiddick is something only a right-winger would bring up in a conversation about Edward Kennedy, or the Kennedy family.

[WinniSkipper]

59. The interesting part is

..you are wrong.

[billh58]

57. These "cold dead hands"

NRA-apologists don't give a rat's ass about the pain and misery caused by guns in this country. They want unfettered access to guns, and absolutely no accountability for the fucking things.

Over in the Gungeon they're laughing it up about how they are "winning the war on sanity" and really, really showing the "grabbers" how stupid they are. "If only they would listen to us," they say, "we could show them how to get really, really weak gun legislation passed."

All the "grabbers" need to do, they say, is to kiss the NRA's ass, vote for Blue Dog DLC fucking DINOs, and don't worry about a few "friendly fire" causalities.

And they have the audacity to complain that the non-NRA majority of Americans are "extremists." Karl Rove, the Koch Brothers, Wayne LaPierre, and the rest of the GOP hate machine are so very proud of their NRA disciples and puppets that they just may let them have an extra portion of gruel for dinner tonight.

[Eleanors38]

43. Umm, no. I supported Two and wished he had made a presidential run...

even though his gun ban policies were extremist.

[otohara]

33. Isn't Any Postion on Guns Too Extreme

to gun nuts in America's gun culture?

Part of being a champion to the 99%ers, is keeping us safe from harm.
Only guns are off limits when it comes to regulating - there is no safe gun so why fucking bother.

[premium]

34. You have your opinion,

I have my opinion on what reasonable gun control is.

[billh58]

48. You hit the nail

squarely on the head. It's always comical to hear a NRA-apologist gunner call someone else an "extremist."

[spanone]

4. k&r...

[byeya]

6. Nothing wrong with his gun votes. He should have had the chance to vote on annual

federal taxes on firearms and mandatory safe storage and handling of same along with outlawing gun shows.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

7. Even as a nationally-known Senator, he was a victim of a national list,

Last edited Sun Apr 28, 2013, 01:23 PM - Edit history (1)

the no-fly list.

One of the most admirable traits of Ted Kennedy is that he was a liberal. Just as the ACLU is opposed to a national registry, in the absence of information, no one should invoke Ted Kennedy's name and claim that he would be in favor of a national registry.

Can you count on national lists and employees like those working at the TSA?

With respect to the nationally known Ted Kennedy, in two months alone, he was stopped five times
from boarding planes in a normal manner by TSA agents and their no-fly list.

"Instead of acknowledging the craggy-faced, silver-haired septuagenarian as the Congressional leader whose face has flashed across the nation's television sets for decades, the airline agents acted as if they had stumbled across a fanatic who might blow up an American airplane. Mr. Kennedy said they refused to give him his ticket.

"He said, 'We can't give it to you,' " Mr. Kennedy said, describing an encounter with an airline agent to the rapt audience. " 'You can't buy a ticket to go on the airline to Boston.' I said, 'Well, why not?' He said, 'We can't tell you.' "

"Tried to get on a plane back to Washington," Mr. Kennedy continued. '' 'You can't get on the plane.' I went up to the desk and said, 'I've been getting on this plane, you know, for 42 years. Why can't I get on the plane?' "

The hearing room erupted in laughter.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/20/national/20flight.html

If the TSA was not interested in giving free feel-ups, and didn't regularly screw-up like they did with Ted Kennedy, they might have greater credibility.

For anyone who believes that another national list is going to make us all feel more secure, can you honestly say that there are no employees like the TSA employees who just like to screw with people?

The headline claims that Ted Kennedy voted to BAN semi-automatic rifles, pistols and shotguns (emphasis added).

Any attempt that he made to make it a federal crime to purchase more than two handguns in a year, even if true, was not a vote "to ban semi-automatic rifles, pistols and shotguns" as indicated in the headline.

Any offer of a "proposed 21-day waiting periods on all gun purchases" was not a vote "to ban semi-automatic rifles, pistols and shotguns" as indicated in the headline.

It's claimed that he made "several attempts to ban centerfire hunting ammunition." Even if true, no such attempts were a vote "to ban semi-automatic rifles, pistols and shotguns" as indicated in the headline.

So you quote from an NRA spokesman does not indicate that Ted Kennedy voted "to ban semi-automatic rifles, pistols and shotguns" as indicated in the headline. That does not establish that he did so.

[Robb]

13. Are you fucking kidding me?

[billh58]

49. No, he is

absolutely serious, as most gunners are about their warped view of history.

[AndyA]

8. All of the positions quoted seem incredibly REASONABLE to me.

What's UNREASONABLE is the attitude that there's something wrong with Sen. Kennedy's support on this issue.

K&R

[loyalsister]

10. ^^ this

[ellisonz]

11. +1000

[calimary]

23. +1000 more.

[premium]

15. What you call UREASONABLE attitude,

many of us call difference of opinion. We are still allowed to have a difference of opinions.

[AtheistCrusader]

16. Do you know what centerfire rifle ammo is?

Just curious.

[sylvi]

68. Don't start distracting with the "technical minutiae" now

Just because it comprise 99% of all hunting rifle ammo.

[AtheistCrusader]

69. He also wanted to ban the .30-30 (rimfire)

because it could "crack a safe".

[Spitfire of ATJ]

17. Ted should have been Majority Leader....

But the DLC hated him.

[Chuuku Davis]

21. Wanted to ban hunting ammunition

That was an error IMHO

[Robb]

24. Can you tell us the legislation, and the difference?

[calimary]

27. Welcome to DU, Chuuku Davis!

Good to have you with us.

Hunting? Meh... somebody can always come up with an exception. But the problem with that is - while our reps are all noodling around with this exception and that exception and this fine print and that fine print - THEN NOTHING GETS DONE. We're still left with NOTHING DONE, and NOTHING SOLVED, and NO STEPS TAKEN AT ALL!!!!!

My question still is - "... and so, then we do nothing???????"

[Eleanors38]

44. Don't know your position on banning guns...

But if one starts with that approach, then there better be specificity at least to the degree of convincing definitions. This is a chief reason why bans are "worked around" (see AWB, 1994). Not to mention political opposition.

[hack89]

25. "several attempts to ban centerfire hunting ammunition." Why?

He really wanted to ban all rifle ammunition larger than a .22lr?

[Robb]

28. That's how the NRA framed it.

He actually proposed an amendment to the "no lawsuits against manufacturers of arms" bill that would exclude anyone who made bullets that could pierce police armor.

Not a "ban" at all. But that's the NRA for ya.

[NickB79]

37. "bullets that could pierce police armor"

Which would be any centerfire deer rifle manufactured in the past 100 years.

A .30-30 lever action rifle made in 1890 will punch through a police officer's Kevlar vest.

[hack89]

38. Actually it was a ban on certain types of rifle ammunition

his amendment was to expand the definition of armor piercing ammunition in Section 921(a)(17)(B) of title 18, United States Code. When you read Section 922, you see that it is illegal to make or import armor piercing ammunition.

Here is part of his proposed amendment:

(iv) a projectile for a center-fire rifle, designed or marketed as having armor piercing capability, that the Attorney General determines, under section 926(d), to be more likely to penetrate body armor than standard ammunition of the same caliber.''.

(b) DETERMINATION OF THE CAPABILITY OF PROJECTILES TO PENETRATE BODY ARMOR.--Section 926 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:

``(3) As used in paragraph (1), the term `Body Armor Exemplar' means body armor that the Attorney General determines meets minimum standards for the protection of law enforcement officers.''.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/C?r109:./temp/~r109pXp1Qt

The question was over the term "designed" - any center-fire bullet will penetrate a typical police vest. The wording of the amendment was sufficiently vague enough to give the NRA an opening to oppose it. He should have simply expanded the definition to explicitly say that hunting ammo was not included. A perfect example of where precise technical definitions would have been useful.

I personally don't see the wording as banning hunting ammo but it was enough for the NRA and could have been anticipated.

[malaise]

29. K & R

[freshwest]

30. A life formed through tragedy gets the point and endorsed PBO. Thanks, Senator Kennedy.

[Cha]

41. Yes, freshwest.. and from Victoria Kennedy

Statement of Victoria Reggie Kennedy, President of the Edward M. Kennedy Institute Board, on the 2nd Anniversary of the Signing of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

Today [March 23, 2012] is the second anniversary of President Obama’s signing the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act and making health care reform the law of the land.

Presidents had tried for 100 years to reform health care in this country. Congress had tried. My husband Ted Kennedy called reforming health care and making it affordable and accessible the cause of his life. But President Obama was the president who made it happen. And because of his leadership and the hard work of the Congress of the United States, millions of Americans have experienced first-hand the important benefits and economic security it provides.

http://emkinstitute.org/updates/entry/anniversary-of-healthcare-signing

[freshwest]

42. After so many death threats made across the country and to all of my representatives,

with Tea Party terrorists trying to intimidate Town Halls, media telling non-stop lies, it was signed.

I see many faces I recognize there, who worked to make this a reality. It will evolve, after saving lives and giving peace to many Americans.

The work is not over as the same opposition will continue to it and all forms of equality. Because that is what it stands for after all is said and done.

There were so many poison pills for private insurance companies, some have only hit year, thus their well-funded disinformation campaign. I believe a progressive majority will bring Medicare4All or a universal plan.

Thanks, Cha, for her words and that picture. I'd never seen it.

[Thinkingabout]

32. Since the Kennedy family suffered two well known occurrences of gun violence, Ted spoke from his own

experiences of which many of the rest of the nation has not lived with. Could it have prevented his brothers from being killed, don't know and don't think many others could or could not say what might have happened. He championed many subjects, did not back down to those who may not have agreed with him. A great Senator who knew how to work toward goals. Thank you Ted Kennedy for all the effort you put forth for the American public.

[timdog44]

45. Ted Kennedy.

Proof of what a true champion of the people can be. Proof that people with wealth "can" be compassionate and "can" be for the work a day man. I am glad to have been alive when he was.

[In_The_Wind]

63. Indeed