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xchrom

(108,903 posts)
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 07:18 AM Apr 2013

A Real-Life Window Into How Virginity Obsession Hurts Teen Girls

http://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2013/04/a-real-life-window-into-how-virginity-obsession-hurts-teen-girls/275077/


Kolby Koloff goes shopping for a Halloween costume along with her sister Kendra and half-sisters Tawni and Teryn. (Lifetime)

The opening fade-in of the premiere episode of Preachers' Daughters features a pure white background with two Bible verses from 1 Thessalonians 4: "For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that you abstain from sexual immorality," and; "God has not called you to lead an unclean life but one of purity."

This passage it turns out, is the set-up for the entire series: How will three Christian families headed by pastors keep their teen daughters from having sex? When their religion places the girls' virginity above all else, how will these true believers navigate the hormonally charged waters of their daughters' coming of age?

The first teen we meet is Kolby, and she just wants to date. She is 16 and thinks it is high time. She runs this by her dad, Nikita, a former professional wrestler turned preacher over a "daddy-and-daughter lunch." Nikita with his shaved head and bulging muscles explains he doesn't think there is any need for Kolby to "experience" dating. He doesn't agree with the dating "lifestyle" but he doesn't entirely shut her down. He tells Kolby she has to run it by her mom, Victoria, who turns out to be the real challenge.

Victoria is a preacher just like Nikita. She also works at a Christian "crisis pregnancy center" and is a Christian radio talk show host. After a conversation between mother and daughter Victoria decides she will let Kolby date. Kolby is thrilled, as any 16-year-old would be. But Victoria has one condition: Kolby must sit through one of her "sex talks" at church.
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A Real-Life Window Into How Virginity Obsession Hurts Teen Girls (Original Post) xchrom Apr 2013 OP
and, as with all religious sexual purity nutbaggery, the onus is put on the women. KG Apr 2013 #1
Riiight; it's VIRGINITY that harms teen girls. Not "Girls Gone Wild", etc. WinkyDink Apr 2013 #2
If that's sarcasm-- YarnAddict Apr 2013 #8
There's a difference between just being a virgin and the virginity cult LadyHawkAZ Apr 2013 #21
Teach them correct principles, then let them govern themselves marshall Apr 2013 #52
"Girls Gone Wild" is actually a byproduct of our culture's virgin / whore dichotomy Scootaloo Apr 2013 #32
Women are not like cars--"new" or "used." A woman's value does not depreciate tblue37 Apr 2013 #40
Sigh! In_The_Wind Apr 2013 #3
What was she dressing up as? A Stepford Wife? muriel_volestrangler Apr 2013 #4
i thought Bo-Peep or Little Miss Tuffet -- but what do i know? nt xchrom Apr 2013 #5
BINGO! I had that EXACT scene in mind when I saw that. CurtEastPoint Apr 2013 #6
I thought it was Ali McGraw... TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #18
Not having seen the show, I assumed that godawful outfit is her regular clothes. winter is coming Apr 2013 #44
If the most important thing you bring to your marriage is your hymen, what happens when it's gone? Brickbat Apr 2013 #7
Sexuality YarnAddict Apr 2013 #9
None of which justifies treating teenagers like they are idiots, going into crying fits when they Brickbat Apr 2013 #10
It's reality TV YarnAddict Apr 2013 #12
If a man were actually honest instead of spouting what society demands of him, seabeyond Apr 2013 #14
Of course YarnAddict Apr 2013 #22
thats how society views sexuality? galileoreloaded Apr 2013 #29
or, the longer they wait the less chance they have to figure out what they actually enjoy. bettyellen Apr 2013 #17
Wait--what?? YarnAddict Apr 2013 #23
not everyone has regrets, or shares your moral code, LOL. bettyellen Apr 2013 #25
No kidding and thank goodness for that! Warpy Apr 2013 #27
yep, cannot support this morally superior "saving it" bullshit one iota. bettyellen Apr 2013 #30
Yes, because the morning after the wedding night Warpy Apr 2013 #36
No man *could* back then, but now, with DNA testing, he *can* be sure--unless tblue37 Apr 2013 #41
I stand by what I said: YarnAddict Apr 2013 #35
I would argue that, this is not because they are teenagers ... surrealAmerican Apr 2013 #43
And the older you are, YarnAddict Apr 2013 #47
My views aren't about a "moral code" YarnAddict Apr 2013 #38
That doesn't mean it's good for girls to make them feel shameful in order to keep them virgins gollygee Apr 2013 #46
Of course, no one should make them feel shamed YarnAddict Apr 2013 #48
Complete agreement with you. love_katz Apr 2013 #31
More often than not-- YarnAddict Apr 2013 #37
Maybe if we gave less attention to reality shows YarnAddict Apr 2013 #11
+1000000000000 A Little Weird Apr 2013 #15
They've pretty much taken over pay TV, too Warpy Apr 2013 #28
I wonder what affect this obsession on girls who were sexually abused or raped Nikia Apr 2013 #13
They have an answer for that too jmowreader Apr 2013 #20
Exactly how close to "real life" is a typical reality show? hedgehog Apr 2013 #16
Not very. Blue_In_AK Apr 2013 #24
Reality shows have writers, who plot out a story arc and give the actors--who are not pros, tblue37 Apr 2013 #42
Why is "Nikita" calling himself that? His real name was Nelson Scott Simpson . . . HughBeaumont Apr 2013 #19
I can't get over 'former professional wrestler turned preacher'! House of Roberts Apr 2013 #26
Did you happen to see the movie _The Prestige_? The protagonist tblue37 Apr 2013 #45
My mom used to tell my sister and I this quote... liberalmuse Apr 2013 #33
yikes. cali Apr 2013 #34
The more you stress "sex is evil", the more teens are going to want it. winter is coming Apr 2013 #39
Ann Landers preached that line, and she was Jewish. Manifestor_of_Light Apr 2013 #49
Reality shows are fake. GeorgeGist Apr 2013 #50
I've wondered what happened to Nikita Koloff. Captain Stern Apr 2013 #51

LadyHawkAZ

(6,199 posts)
21. There's a difference between just being a virgin and the virginity cult
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 03:23 PM
Apr 2013

Only one of those contains an element of choice. Teaching that you must remain a virgin until marriage and that you are devalued if you have sex does indeed damage young girls, because it undermines their own choices and judgements and devalues the concept of their consent.

marshall

(6,661 posts)
52. Teach them correct principles, then let them govern themselves
Mon Apr 29, 2013, 09:52 AM
Apr 2013

That's what they say in the Mormon church.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
32. "Girls Gone Wild" is actually a byproduct of our culture's virgin / whore dichotomy
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 04:15 PM
Apr 2013

In this, a woman can only be either a pure, morally upstanding, untouchable virgin under the control of a man (usually 'daddy'), or she can be a base, debauched 'slut', free for any man to take.

tblue37

(64,982 posts)
40. Women are not like cars--"new" or "used." A woman's value does not depreciate
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 06:11 PM
Apr 2013

because she is not a virgin. Those who think it does are simply misogynists who view a woman's virginity as a commodity and who think that her father has property rights to her virginity until he transfers ownership to her husband.

CurtEastPoint

(18,552 posts)
6. BINGO! I had that EXACT scene in mind when I saw that.
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 09:01 AM
Apr 2013

Pretty close to what they're wanting, isn't it? The men, I mean...

winter is coming

(11,785 posts)
44. Not having seen the show, I assumed that godawful outfit is her regular clothes.
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 06:20 PM
Apr 2013

Given some fundies' fixation on "modest clothes", it's certainly possible.

Brickbat

(19,339 posts)
7. If the most important thing you bring to your marriage is your hymen, what happens when it's gone?
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 09:42 AM
Apr 2013

These people have a sick and bizarre obsession. Your sense of humor, your compassion, your understanding of math and knack for budgets -- all your past experiences that make you you -- all of that is secondary to whether the piece of tissue in your vagina is intact or not. Disgusting.

 

YarnAddict

(1,850 posts)
9. Sexuality
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 09:55 AM
Apr 2013

is a very complicated thing and the overwhelming majority of teenagers aren't emotionally mature enough to deal with it. Ask adult women, and most would probably tell you that they regret one or more of their sexual encounters. The longer they delay such an intimate relationship, they less chance that they will have to regret.

Brickbat

(19,339 posts)
10. None of which justifies treating teenagers like they are idiots, going into crying fits when they
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 10:01 AM
Apr 2013

express normal sexual interest and expression, or obsessing over girls' (not boys') sexual choices -- which you yourself are doing. Most studies that ask about hookup regrets find that both men and women have similar regret levels.

 

YarnAddict

(1,850 posts)
12. It's reality TV
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 10:11 AM
Apr 2013

If the parents acted like normal people, there would be no show.

My reply was regarding the concept of the show, which focuses on young women. I feel the same way about young men. I myself have two sons--both adults now. I was very aware when they were young that decisions they made about what they did as teenagers would affect the rest of their lives--including relationship decisions. They did things I didn't always agree with, but they have to live with the consequences.

Have you ever noticed that parents are perceived as smarter as their children get older?

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
14. If a man were actually honest instead of spouting what society demands of him,
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 01:21 PM
Apr 2013

You could ask him the same and get the same answer. As long as we continue to view sexuality as a woman giving and a man getting, we will have issues.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
17. or, the longer they wait the less chance they have to figure out what they actually enjoy.
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 02:11 PM
Apr 2013

and the longer the delay, the more the fear and shame sets in. Different strokes for different folks.

Warpy

(110,913 posts)
27. No kidding and thank goodness for that!
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 03:52 PM
Apr 2013

I remember getting fed the line that girls who started exploring their sexuality early would be "burned out, used up" by the time they got out of high school, their lives utterly ruined.

Fortunately, I realized it was horseshit, along with the ideas that women who remained single were suffering from personality disorders and everything about female sexuality was dark, moist, smelly, dirty, and disgusting.

I was a late bloomer, probably due to my late menarche and my mother's lecture on birth control methods--it just seemed like a lot of trouble to go through for not much reward. The cult of virginity never appealed to me, though. Still, when I finally got rid of that thing, a very small nagging voice from all those health and hygiene films told me I was utterly devalued, no longer marriageable and just a piece of meat to be used and thrown away.

It's a shitty way to treat little girls. I wish the culture would knock it the hell off, already.

Warpy

(110,913 posts)
36. Yes, because the morning after the wedding night
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 05:30 PM
Apr 2013

she's just as useless and worthless as all other women to the virginity obsessed males out there.

The cult of virginity started among the aristocracy in Europe during the days primogeniture reigned supreme. If a bride had an intact hymen and got up the duff immediately, the aristocrat knew there was a better chance it was really his kid who would inherit everything.

No man can ever be 100% sure he is the son of his father or the father of his son otherwise.

tblue37

(64,982 posts)
41. No man *could* back then, but now, with DNA testing, he *can* be sure--unless
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 06:15 PM
Apr 2013

he has an identical twin brother who has slept with his child's mother.

 

YarnAddict

(1,850 posts)
35. I stand by what I said:
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 05:29 PM
Apr 2013

The VAST majority of teenagers--male and female--are not emotionally mature enough to understand all the implications of a sexual relationship. And that includes birth control, disease prevention, dealing with gossip, the emotional consequences of having their hearts broken, etc., etc., etc.

I'm glad you don't have any regrets. I think you are probably in the minority in that regard.

surrealAmerican

(11,340 posts)
43. I would argue that, this is not because they are teenagers ...
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 06:20 PM
Apr 2013

... but because they are inexperienced. Maturity is not something that just happens as you age - it comes as a result of your experiences.

 

YarnAddict

(1,850 posts)
47. And the older you are,
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 06:52 PM
Apr 2013

the more "experience" you gain, with all aspects of relationships. Someone who starts having sex at 11, 12, 13, will have plenty of sexual experience, but probably not a lot of other exposure to healthy male/female relationship.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
46. That doesn't mean it's good for girls to make them feel shameful in order to keep them virgins
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 06:43 PM
Apr 2013

I'd rather my kids have sex as teenagers than develop unhealthy feelings about their sexuality. I think that would be a greater regret.

If girls want to wait to have sex, great. They absolutely should wait until they are comfortable, and should feel no pressure to have sex early. But we can't treat virginity like the most important part of teenage girls. We can't treat sexually active teenage girls like they're damaged goods, or create an environment that leads to that impression. That is absolutely harmful to girls and women.

This cult of virginity makes keeping girls "pure" too big of an issue. It's an unhealthy obsession.

 

YarnAddict

(1,850 posts)
48. Of course, no one should make them feel shamed
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 06:56 PM
Apr 2013

This is about a stupid show. It's like a freak show, a circus sideshow. These people were chosesn for their ridiculous over-the-top attitudes, and they represent very few, if any, actual people.

love_katz

(2,562 posts)
31. Complete agreement with you.
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 04:10 PM
Apr 2013

It is about controlling women - our bodies, our lives, our choices - and slut shaming us for making our own choices.

This is sick.

It takes a great deal more to make a relationship work than an intact hymen. What idiocy!

I also agree with In The Wind: This is so wrong.

 

YarnAddict

(1,850 posts)
37. More often than not--
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 05:30 PM
Apr 2013

--it isn't about choice. It's about pressure, whether from a partner or peers. That's a terrible reason to do anything.

Warpy

(110,913 posts)
28. They've pretty much taken over pay TV, too
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 03:54 PM
Apr 2013

along with those insufferable infomercials.

If it weren't for TCM and things like Drag Race on Logo, I'd probably get rid of the dish and go back to listening to good music, instead.

Nikia

(11,411 posts)
13. I wonder what affect this obsession on girls who were sexually abused or raped
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 12:57 PM
Apr 2013

Making them feel even worse about the events than they already would because they can never become virgins again like the "good" girls who weren't raped.

jmowreader

(50,453 posts)
20. They have an answer for that too
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 02:39 PM
Apr 2013

It's called revirgination. You ask God to lift your sexual sins away, then go to a plastic surgeon for a hymenoplasty and presto, you're all shiny and new again.

I have no idea why a guy would want this. Yeah, I know about the old "wave the bloody sheets out your bedroom window the next morning" thing...fuck that, go to the butcher, buy some really good steaks, dump the meat juice on your worst sheets and wave those out the window. No pain and good steaks - what's not to like?

Blue_In_AK

(46,436 posts)
24. Not very.
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 03:30 PM
Apr 2013

We had a chance to talk with the cast and crew of "Bering Sea Gold" when we were out in Nome last month, and they were very clear that, yes, they're really diving for gold, and it can be quite dangerous, but a majority of the drama is at the behest of the producers.

tblue37

(64,982 posts)
42. Reality shows have writers, who plot out a story arc and give the actors--who are not pros,
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 06:19 PM
Apr 2013

are cheaper to have working on the show--scripted outlines for what sorts of things they are supposed to do. The scenes are often reshot, to get a more TV-worthy effect.

One girl on one of those Bridezilla shows (maybe it was even called that--I don't know the shows) actually was on probation for assault, and one of the terms of her probation was that she was not to be involved in violence, so when she did what the producers wanted her to do--throw a screaming hissy fit and throw stuff--for an episode of the show, the judge wanted to send her to jail, so she had to explain to him that t wasn't real violence, but just her following the producers' directions for the scene.

If I find a link to an article about that I will edit to post the link.

On edit: Found it:



http://journaltimes.com/news/local/bridezilla-is-out-of-jail-no-contact-with-husband-allowed/article_f5284a6e-1551-570f-b7e1-58bfbe8bb30a.html

Bridezilla Is Out of Jail, No Contact with Husband Allowed

<SNIP>

"Ms. Gibson was not incarcerated for appearing on a television show," the response filed today reads. "Rather, she was placed on a probation hold because she was observed to be violating the terms of her supervision and also violating at least two criminal laws."

During the show, Gibson Hart threatened violence, especially against her mother-in-law "even at one point challenging her to and engaging in a boxing match," reads the DOC response to Eisenberg's petition.

The mother-in-law, Heidi Hart, has written a letter in support of Gibson Hart, saying the incidents were part of the crafting of the show--and not real threats or acts of violence. Eisenberg has also said his client was only acting on the show
<emphasis added>.

The DOC cites as evidence of the alleged probation violations the boxing match as well as Gibson Hart burning her bridesmaid's shoes and pushing her mother-in-law into a snowbank; borrowing money from her grandmother; engaging in reckless driving; and making a false police report that she was being stalked, which resulted in a police escort to her own wedding.

<SNIP>

HughBeaumont

(24,461 posts)
19. Why is "Nikita" calling himself that? His real name was Nelson Scott Simpson . . .
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 02:33 PM
Apr 2013

. . . and here's an article to give you an idea just how looney tunes this guy is . . .

http://www.cracked.com/article_20029_5-insane-true-tales-wrestlers-refusing-to-break-character.html

When Nelson Scott Simpson first broke into the wrestling business in 1984, he was told that his new character was going to be named "The Russian Nightmare" Nikita Koloff, because by the mid-'80s hating Russians was at a career-making high. Since Simpson had very little wrestling training to speak of, he decided to overcompensate by completely immersing himself in his character, including legally changing his name. Sort of like if Dolph Lundgren actually changed his name to Ivan Drago and actively tried to kill Carl Weathers whenever he spotted him at social events.

So, Simpson legally changed his name to Nikita Koloff, actually learned to speak Russian and pretty much refused to say more than 11 words of Boris Badenov-strangled English in any situation. That's right -- for an entire year he didn't speak anything but Russian, because he wanted wrestling fans to believe that he was a newly arrived Russian immigrant still getting a handle on how to sputter out enough English to earn a chorus of boos.

He didn't drop the act once the cameras were off, either -- Simpson refused to speak English in public under any circumstance, not even in his normal day-to-day life. Instead, he had someone pretend to act as his interpreter for anything that required him to interact with other people, including renting his goddamned apartment.


House of Roberts

(5,122 posts)
26. I can't get over 'former professional wrestler turned preacher'!
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 03:52 PM
Apr 2013

Reminds me of the Reverend 'Little Ed' Pembrooke!

Maybe that's where he got the idea!

tblue37

(64,982 posts)
45. Did you happen to see the movie _The Prestige_? The protagonist
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 06:33 PM
Apr 2013

maintains the consistency of his performance to maintain his persona as a super-magician, even though it drives a wedge between himself and his beloved wife, who doesn't know it is his twin brother, whom no one knows about, who is dallying with Charlotte Johansson.

It is commitment to one's role--and for a professional whose job requires the donning of a mask, it seems to me to be a reasonable way to maintain one's professional career, since it was not for all that long, after all.

liberalmuse

(18,670 posts)
33. My mom used to tell my sister and I this quote...
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 04:16 PM
Apr 2013

via Mormonism, "I'd rather you come home in a pine box than find out you've had sexual relations before marriage."

And yes, to tell young girls that their primo selling point is their virginity is damned harmful.

Oddly enough, when I finally had sex, I felt zero guilt (and I feel guilty about almost everything), and wondered what the BFD was.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
34. yikes.
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 04:33 PM
Apr 2013

I must admit that I felt pressured to have sex- and I did before I was ready and with a history of being sexually abused as a child.

winter is coming

(11,785 posts)
39. The more you stress "sex is evil", the more teens are going to want it.
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 06:08 PM
Apr 2013

The wildest kids I knew growing up were from strict Catholic and strict Baptist families.

 

Manifestor_of_Light

(21,046 posts)
49. Ann Landers preached that line, and she was Jewish.
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 07:04 PM
Apr 2013

She was an uptight Midwest American prude.

They showed us a movie in high school where she was speaking through her ill-fitting dentures, wearing her helmet hair, and saying that boys only want one thing, and after they get it, they will throw you away like used Kleenex.

Basically, that you are worthless if you are not a virgin. And also, that you should do anything on a date but kiss and make out. If you kiss boys and make out, that is bad.

I don't know why they showed us this crap, except to scare us to death. They certainly didn't give us any accurate sex education.
I graduated in 1972.

So I felt guilty and shameful and then I figured out that god wouldn't strike me dead if I had sex, and I was not a bad person.

Ann Landers and my parents and society in general had a conspiracy of silence going on about sex education and attitudes.

Mom would snort about girls who "played house" and "shacked up" with a guy. She said "bad things" happened to girls that were "boy crazy". She never said what those things were.


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