Animal Rights Activists Hack Foie Gras Website, Publish Customers' Names

[Omaha Steve]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/emofly/animal-rights-activists-hack-foie-gras-website-publish-custo

Emily Fleischaker


Ducks that will eventually be slaughtered for food, including foie gras, on the grounds at Hudson Valley Foie Gras in Ferndale, New York.
Image by Stephen Chernin / Getty Images


Animal rights activists hacked the website of the largest American foie gras producer Monday and Tuesday. Names and emails of customers who bought duck products from Hudson Valley Foie Gras over the last year were then published on various websites.

Some customers whose names and emails were published — several of whom are chefs — said they had since received harassing calls and emails from activists. "Last night I was cooking and I got numerous phone calls on my cell phone from blocked numbers," said Laguna Beach, California chef Amar Santana, who said he purchased foie gras about a month ago because a customer specifically requested it, even though selling foie in California is illegal. "One lady called and said, 'Are you the foie gras motherfucker?' And just hung up on me."

Santana said that now that his name, address, cell phone, and email have been published, he's going to stop selling foie. "Those people care about animals more than people sand they're getting the support of the government to get away with what they want," he said. "I'm not serving it anymore because this is getting out of hand."

The hackers sent the information to at least two animal rights organizations with a letter that said "for Earth Day we targeted Hudson Valley Foie Gras, the largest foie gras farm in the United States ... [which] tortures birds and pollutes the earth." North American Animal Liberation Press Office received the hackers' letter and published the names Wednesday. The information was also published on negotiationisover.net.


A worker at Hudson Valley Foie Gas uses the force feeding machine to feed ducks.
Image by Stephen Chernin / Getty Images

FULL story at link.

[Honeycombe8]

1. Good post. I don't touch the stuff, myself. More and more people ...

are getting more concerned about the treatment of animals. Could it be we're becoming more civilized?

[Warpy]

66. I really, really dislike liver

to the point my throat closes up and I can't get it down.

However, what amazes me about these force feeding operations is how so many of the ducks and geese are willing to have long funnels shoved down their throats and grain poured in. They can be seen clustering around, waiting their turn.

Do I think they're cruel? Oh, yes, anything that produces an unhealthy animal is cruel, including "finishing lots" where cattle are fed grains to fill their muscle tissue with copious amounts of fat. In addition, I don't think food from unhealthy animals is particularly good for the people who eat it.

I will be thrilled if factory farming of meat animals ends. I doubt it will end any time soon. I also doubt people with more money than brains will stop eating foie gras because the birds are abused and unhealthy.

Let their arteries clog from all the added fat, I guess, and let Mother Nature take her own revenge.

[RebelOne]

2. Good for them.

I am on the side of any animal rights groups that try to end cruelty to animals.

[GoneOffShore]

3. It is terrible that Hudson Valley Foie Gras is being harassed. No sarcasm.

And I'm talking about the harassment of chefs, diners and the producers of a perfectly legitimate food.

You can't produce good foie gras by being cruel to ducks or geese.

But the people who anthropomorphize - http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anthropomorphize - can't see anything but the cute baby ducklings, or the lambs, or the calves.

Just remember - they'd eat us if they could.

[RebelOne]

4. I doubt that they would eat us if they could.

Most of those animals are vegetarians.

[GoneOffShore]

5. Sorry, they would eat us if they could.

Ducks are omnivorous.

[Warren Stupidity]

6. They would eat us if somebody chopped us into bits and threw us in a pond.

Last edited Sun Apr 28, 2013, 08:36 AM - Edit history (1)

On the other hand, is it your claim that ducks and humans have equivalent levels of ethical consciousness?

[flvegan]

16. How cruelly would they treat us beforehand? n/t

[Warren Stupidity]

19. If you've ever seen a duck bare its teeth, you wouldn't ask.

[RebelOne]

68. Since when does a duck have teeth? n/t

[Warren Stupidity]

70. Since they started hunting and eating humans.

Be afraid, be very afraid.

[galileoreloaded]

82. it doesnt matter.

cruelty is a wholly human construct. your specially selected brain (genetic selection, evolution) have given you specious powers no other mammals have, namely empathy for lesser food chain contributors because our large prefontal cortexes allow greater choice in prey.

what animal lovers get "high" on (and its not compassion) is their magnanimity .dont get it twisted.

[flvegan]

96. Oh, you just got it twisted.

Explain yourself about these "animal lovers" you speak of.

Empathy for lesser food chain contributors...lol. You realize that your friends and family that predeceased you are worm food, right? Maggots, worms...just asking.

[galileoreloaded]

104. lol. i just did.

making my point about the nature of human existence (ie wormfood) was...helpful?!

[GoneOffShore]

21. I've had a flock of ducks chase the canal boat I was steering

They pecked at the hull and hissed at us when we tried to gently shoo them away.

I've also been chased by geese here in the states. The bite. Hard. Hard enough to draw blood and then come back for more. I doubt that doing any chopping would be necessary.

I've watched swans drown other swans.

So yes, they wouldn't wait.

[cali]

30. I don't know why

but that made me snort my coffee.

[MattBaggins]

25. Use your precious merriams to look up hyperbole.

[Omaha Steve]

8. "You can't produce good foie gras by being cruel to ducks or geese" Foie Gras: Delicacy of Despair

http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-food/foie-gras.aspx


To produce "foie gras" (which literally means "fatty liver&quot , workers ram pipes down male ducks' or geese's throats two or three times daily and pump as much as 4 pounds of grain and fat into the animals' stomachs, causing their livers to bloat to up to 10 times their normal size. Many birds have difficulty standing because of their engorged livers, and they may tear out their own feathers and cannibalize each other out of stress.

The birds are kept in tiny wire cages or packed into sheds. On some farms, a single worker may be expected to force-feed 500 birds three times each day. Because of this rush, animals are often treated roughly and left injured and suffering.

A PETA investigation at Hudson Valley Foie Gras in New York (then called "Commonwealth Enterprises&quot found that so many ducks died when their organs ruptured from overfeeding that workers who killed fewer than 50 birds per month were given a bonus. Many ducks develop foot infections, kidney necrosis, spleen damage, bruised and broken bills, and tumor-like lumps in their throats. One duck had a maggot-infested neck wound so severe that water spilled out of it when he drank.

Other investigations at Hudson Valley Foie Gras and America's other leading foie gras producer, Sonoma Foie Gras in California, revealed that ducks were crammed into filthy, feces-ridden sheds and that others were isolated in wire cages that were so small that they could barely move. Investigators also observed barrels full of dead ducks who had choked to death or whose organs had ruptured during the traumatic force-feeding process. The investigators rescued 15 ducks, including two who were being eaten alive by rats because they could not move.


FULL info at link.

[Warren Stupidity]

10. no really the ducks love it.

its fucking amazing what people come up with as excuses to stay blind.

[Major Nikon]

22. What is amazing is that anyone would think PETA is an objective source of information

[Omaha Steve]

46. Doesn't piss me off at all, the entire point of the post is get DUers talking about it

Fair question. The nice thing about PETA is the amount of undercover video they shoot to back up what they say.

Several states including NEBRASKA are trying to pass laws against undercover videos on animal cruelty. Why have animal cruelty laws at all then?

OS

[red dog 1]

51. ALEC is behind these so-called Ag-Gag Bills to make these undercover videos illegal

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022634051/

[red dog 1]

36. + 1

[Major Nikon]

23. People tend to ignorantly equate the anatomy of humans and animals

Forcing a feeding tube down a person would be undoubtedly cruel, but it isn't so for ducks. Ducks and geese are designed to swallow fish whole, including fish that are larger than the relaxed state of their throat. They also have a separate air passage that originates from their tongue. Their livers are also designed to swell prior to migration. If the feeding operation was painful to the birds, they would be running away instead of lining up.

Studies have also shown that farm animals have far less stress than animals in the wild. Animals in the wild stress over starvation, migration, and being eaten by predators. So while a human may not like the idea of living life in captivity, ducks and geese have no such compunction.

[Major Nikon]

29. A well thought out and informed reply

For which you should be commended.

[red dog 1]

33. "Forcing a feeding tube down a person would be indoubtetly cruel, but it isn't so for ducks"?

How the hell do you know that?

What is your source for this "nugget" of information?

Or is this merely your opinion?

[Major Nikon]

35. A more relevant question is how do you know it is?

If you want to change a food practice that has literally been around for several millennia, it might be a good idea to at least provide some evidence that it is actually cruel other than "how would you like it if...".

Just sayin'

[red dog 1]

41. A more relevant question is how do you know it isn"t cruel?

YOU made the statement
"For a human this would be intolerably cruel. For some animals, much less so"

It might be a good idea for YOU to provide some evidence that it is NOT cruel, or painful.

Or are you of the opinion that ducks and geese cannot feel pain?

[Major Nikon]

43. I already did

All you have to do is play the video.

[red dog 1]

49. You never answered my question.

Are you of the opinion that ducks and geese cannot feel pain?


As far as your video proving or disproving anything,

On May 11, 2012, Anthony Bourdain Tweeted the following:

"Every time a chef is threatened, someone should skin a panda."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/11/foie-gras-protests-bourdain_n_1509604.html/

[Major Nikon]

50. Now that's funny

Does this look painful? Keep in mind it's bigger and not quite as smooth as the feeding tube

[red dog 1]

53. Keep in mind that the fish is not being forced down the duck's gullet.

[Major Nikon]

85. I'm not sure how it would go down otherwise

One of life's big mysteries for some I suppose.

[red dog 1]

86. "I'm not sure it would go down otherwise"?

What exactly does that mean?

I pointed out that in the photo you posted, the fish is not being forced down the duck's gullet; and you respond with "I'm not sure how it would go down otherwise"???

[Major Nikon]

87. It means the animal has to force it down itself

When an object is bigger than the relaxed state of the opening, it stands to reason that some force must be involved as gravity alone isn't going to get the job done.

So the animal can, and often does force larger and more irregular objects down its own throat quite willingly, yet you would have me believe that a smaller and smoother object would cause pain. So far your best argument seems to be "how would you like it if...", which given the evolutionary distance between human and waterfowl seems quite weak.

[red dog 1]

88. "It means the animal has to force it down itself"???

"When an object is bigger than the relaxed state of the opening, it stands to reason that some force must be involved as gravity alone isn't going to get the job done.
So the animal can, and often does force larger and more irregular objects down it's own throat quite willingly.??

Haven't you ever seen a duck, goose, or even a seagull eating a large fish?

They move their head from side to side, with a fast motion, and with THIS action, .plus gravity,. they are able to swallow a large fish..

Also, why haven't you answered the question I've put to you several times?

Do you think a duck of goose feels pain?....Yes or no.

[Major Nikon]

89. I've already answered that question

Yet you seem unable or unwilling to answer any of mine. Quite telling that.

Seeing as how I've been generous enough to answer the question you incorrectly claim I didn't, here's one for you. Do you think the insertion of the feeding tube causes pain or distress on the animal? If you do, some evidence to support your opinion should follow. As you have already implied that my opinion isn't worth much to you, I'm going to reciprocate in that regard.

[red dog 1]

90. Where have you answered my question?

Which post was it?
What was the post number?
What was your answer?
Was it that stupid chef's video, where the guy claims, (with no evidence to back up his claim) that force feeding ducks & geese does them no harm?
If so, then that wasn't YOUR opinion, was it?
It was the chef's opinion.

I, on the other hand, am not afraid to answer your question directly, without using photos or videos.
Yes, I DO "think the insertion of the feeding tube causes pain AND distress on the animal", and that is only my OPINION, just as the chef in your video offers HIS opinion to the contrary.

And how, exactly, have I implied that your opinion isn't worth much to me?

[Major Nikon]

92. Post #84

Had you bothered to watch the video, you would have seen a veterinarian explain in great detail why your opinion that it causes pain has little merit, so your claim that it was only the chef's opinion doesn't hold much water.

Some animal experts, though, say emotions are trumping science in the case of foie gras.

Robert Gordon, former president of the New Jersey Veterinary Medical Association, made a surprise visit to New York's Hudson Valley Foie Gras farm in 2005 and said what he saw surprised him.

"I didn't see any evidence of stress among birds that were tube-fed," he said. "In fact, many were trying to push their way to the front because they wanted to go next. Back then, I was quoted as saying, 'Taking the rectal temperature of a cat is more stressful than the tube feeding of these birds.' "

Ducks naturally gorge themselves before migrations, which causes liver swelling, Gordon pointed out.

"The other side of the argument is that none of them do it that intensely for that period of time to cause what you'd define as a pathology of the liver," Gordon said. "The argument is that we're exaggerating that condition. But I go back and say, don't we exaggerate milk production? Many of these issues aren't science-based, but opinions are made and developed based on zealous and possibly ill-informed propaganda."

http://www.sacbee.com/2012/06/21/v-mobile/4578083_lawmaker-may-sponsor-repeal-of.html#storylink=cpy


So far you've attacked ample evidence I've provided as "bullshit" and "stupid" with not one iota of evidence of your own in support. I'm not going to continue to debate this subject with you under those conditions.

Cheers!

[red dog 1]

105. I apologize for the language I used in my first rely to you.

[DonCoquixote]

65. Can plants?

If the fact that animals feel pain is all that would make a food banned, then we would be able to yell at the plants that will eat our remains as we rot into the ground and become fertilizer. I can agree the foie gras is cruel at worst, silly at best, but to act self righteous just because you eat your nice organic produce that costs much more than any working class person can afford is arrogance at it's highest.

And none of it justifies threatening a child's life...period.

[red dog 1]

71. You're absolutely ight about threatening a child's life,.. that is totally inexcusable,

But to imply that the pain involved in forcing food down duck and geese gullets is in any way comparable to the "plants that will eat our remains as we rot into the ground and become fertilizer" is patently absurd..

I am not at all "acting self-righteous" by wanting humane treatment of animals, including ducks and geese, as well as cows, pigs, chickens etc. up to and including the time they are slaughtered.

For your information, abuse of these animals is a violation of federal law, The Animal Welfare Act.

And, for the record, my family and I cannot afford "nice organic produce that costs more than any working class person can afford"; and I also resent your implication that I am being "arrogant" in any way.

[DonCoquixote]

72. apologies about the produce comment

though sadly many vegans do tend to pull that card.

[RandiFan1290]

110. What is amazing is that anyone would think Anthony Bourdain is an objective source of information

[Major Nikon]

111. It's good that you think so

One should be skeptical and informed about one's source of information.

In the case of Bourdain, he is no longer a practicing chef and has no vested interest in the sale of the product in question. He also knows the industry and knows something about the supply chain. He has stated that there are producers out there that mistreat animals, and it's up to the chef to insure their supply chain doesn't include them. This is true for all meat suppliers.

If you go a bit further, you'll find numerous vets and veterinary organizations which have refused to label the practice as cruel. You can also find all sorts of research on the subject that monitored the stress level of the animals and found no problems. Or you can just go with what PETA says, who is known for sensationalism and is a stated veganism advocacy organization.

[red dog 1]

27. "You can't produce good foie gras by being cruel to ducks or geese"?

Don't you mean, "You can't produce good foie gras by NOT being cruel to ducks or geese"?

Look at the photo, she's force feeding ducks in order to get enlarged livers, is that not being cruel?

How would like someone to force feed you so that your liver would get enlarged?

[Major Nikon]

32. How would you like it if someone gave you nothing but grass and water?

For a human this would be intolerably cruel. For some animals, much less so.

Equating people to animals is like comparing apples to oranges.

[red dog 1]

34. "For a human this would be intolerably cruel. For some animals, much less so"?

So, what your saying is that "for some animals", being hooked up to a force-feeding machine might, indeed, be cruel, but "much less so" than for a human?

"Much less" cruel implies that these animals do suffer, but not as much as humans would, right?

[Major Nikon]

37. No, it implies that it's less, which could include zero

At the bottom of the scientific classification of animals you have species, several rungs up on the ladder you have class, in which humans and waterfowl diverged quite a few years back. The expectation that both would react the same to a given stimuli is a poor one.

[red dog 1]

42. "No, it implies that it's less [cruel], which could include zero"?

"Which could include zero"?

What the hell does that mean?

Does that mean the ducks and geese feel "zero" pain when hooked up to these force-feeding machines?

[Major Nikon]

44. That would be a pretty good place to start

Seeing as how the animals are under no visible stress.

[red dog 1]

60. How about an answer to my question:

Are you of the opinion that ducks and geese cannot feel pain?

[Major Nikon]

84. If one were to put a duck in a vise and squeeze it to death

I'm pretty sure it would feel pain before the end. I'm not sure what that has to do with putting a feeding tube down an animal's throat that is designed to swallow much larger and irregularly sized objects. Perhaps you can explain that, or perhaps queries only work in one direction in your world.

Just sayin'

[Jamastiene]

115. Got a link for that?

I want to see some solid evidence of ducks, lambs, or calves eating people or even wanting to try to eat people. You made the claim. Back it up.

People who have no compassion for animals are anthropomorphizing themselves. I have yet to see someone who is cruel toward animals have any emotions or feelings whatsoever. The whole damn lot of you are soulless, heartless, and utterly emotionless.

[kestrel91316]

11. Shameful behavior on the part of the animal "rights" activists.

It's basically terrorism, and some of those customers might be murdered.

I've never forgotten nor forgiven them for murdering that vet school dean or whoever he was years ago in TN, IIRC.

Have I mentioned yet today how much I hate PETA?

[Omaha Steve]

12. Police: Rumors Link Animal Rights Activists to Dean's Killing

Rumors! (all I could find) and ''Everything in it was unconfirmed,''

Why would animals rights activists kill ANOTHER activist?

Militant animal rights groups are the Jihad wing associated with Westboro Baptist. Easy to start rumors. The rumors about the DA killings in Texas were wrong. Get the point?

http://www.apnewsarchive.com/1990/Police-Rumors-Link-Animal-Rights-Activists-to-Dean-s-Killing/id-689a8da3ce44b4c36153a2197602ea62


AP , Associated Press
Feb. 24, 1990 11:23 PM ET

KNOXVILLE, TENN. KNOXVILLE, Tenn. (AP) _ Police nationwide were alerted last week to rumors that militant animal rights activists might be planning to kill a veterinarian school dean each month for a year, authorities said.

Homicide Detective Lt. Larry Johnson of the Knox County sheriff's office, lead investigator in the Feb. 8 ambush slaying of University of Tennessee veterinary school dean Dr. Hyram Kitchen, said the information was released as a precaution only.

''We just put out third-hand information,'' Johnson said. ''We put it out for only one reason: we didn't want to sit on anything.''

Kitchen, 57, was gunned down outside his home in north Knox County as he was leaving for a work-related breakfast meeting.

He was shot eight times with a .22-caliber revolver, twice in the back of the head.

FULL story at link.




http://www.wbir.com/rss/article/170236/2/Cold-Case-Murder-of-former-UT-vet-school-dean-still-mystery

Cold Case: Murder of former UT vet school dean still mystery (11:09 PM, May 19, 2011)

He was a popular professor, an advocate for animals, a husband and a father.

He also is a murder victim.

On Feb. 8, 1990, Dr. Hyram Kitchen was gunned down in the driveway of his Northwest Knox County home.

FULL story and video at link.

[tblue]

39. It's a rumor

Do not spread.

[flvegan]

14. Do tell how that is so, and speak specifically to how "murder" comes into play.

Please.

"Might be" is funny.

[Luminous Animal]

17. So I guess Anon's hacking and exposing Stuebenville rapes was terrorism, eh?

[justiceischeap]

114. +1000! nt

[nomorenomore08]

13. No real "good guys" here.

I mean, if people really want their foie gras then fine, but I won't go out of my way to stick up for them.

That said, I still think the activists harassing chefs are assholes. Like I said, no good guys.

[flvegan]

15. Heh. n/t

[Behind the Aegis]

18. Tacky.

I don't like foie gras, veal, and such. It is cruel and it is totally unnecessary. However, this type of "activism" is bullshit. Let's see how "funny" or "poignant" these tactics are when someone does the same to a Gay youth site, the rape prevention hotline, and the list could go on.

[Major Nikon]

24. They got the idea from Fundies

...who used to write the tag numbers down of people who frequent gay bars.

[Behind the Aegis]

48. That is about the same kind of tactic.

Amazing that so-called progressives find this type of behavior acceptable.

[tblue]

40. Gay youth aren't torturing anybody.

Not the same thing.

[Behind the Aegis]

47. You missed the point, I see.

Foie Gras is not illegal.

[tblue]

52. Doesn't make it right.

It's cruel.

[Behind the Aegis]

54. You're right, it doesn't make what they did right.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Personally, I am against the production of foie gras and veal, and wish it would be outlawed, but it hasn't been, and it is legal. This does not give "activists" the right to publish the names of those who purchase and use those products in order to shame or harass them.

Would you support someone publishing a list of people who had abortions? There are a number of people who think that is cruel, including some left of center. I don't; I think it is legal and should remain as such, it should also remain a private affair.

[Bluenorthwest]

67. Foie gras production or sale is most certainly illegal in CA. Since 2004. The chef in the OP has

flouted that law for 9 years for his own profit and now that he's caught he's blaming not his own scofflaw self but those who call him out for his unlawful vending of a cruel food.
It is interesting to note that the CA law allowed for the introduction of a cruelty free foie gras production method if one could be devised and thus far none has been offered.
You keep saying it is not illegal, but it is.

[tblue]

73. Oh Bluenorthwest,

Somebody wants me to care about the people who participate in this vile activity. I couldn't care less about their privacy. There are plenty of people I will do anything to protect, but not that crowd. Let them go crying to the poster badgering me. He cares, so let him work on it. I'm busy.

[Omaha Steve]

77. So it was also illegal...

At the wedding reception a few weeks ago in another thread!!!

[Behind the Aegis]

78. It is not illegal to possess or eat it.

You and others like you keep claiming it is illegal, but it isn't, the illegality is very specific. What the person in the OP did IS illegal; then again so is hacking. I guess two wrongs do make a right.

[tblue]

76. No.

And if this is your issue and a cause tat moves you, then go work on it if you are so inclined. You can't make me support something I don't support.

[Behind the Aegis]

80. You are supporting illegal actions.

The OP also says it posted the names of ALL the customers, not just ones who bought foie gras. I doubt any distinctions were made for those getting threatening/harassing phone calls. So it seems you and a few others are of the school of "two wrongs, do make a right."

ETA: Oh, and go re-read this subthread, YOU would be the one "badgering" me!

[tblue]

94. You are badgering.

With all due respect, I don't care what you think but you seem to be way too concerned about what I think and an inexplicable need to control it. Can't be done. Go help the fg eaters if you are so concerned about them. Makes me no difference. You are wasting your time with me. Honestly.

[Behind the Aegis]

95. And I don't care what you think. But you are projecting.

YOU responded to my post. I have no need to control jack-shit about you, I was only countering your remarks, which, as I said, was IN RESPONSE TO MY POST. What I do care about are people's rights to privacy, something you have made perfectly clear you don't give two shit about if they are "bad" people according to you. But, we do agree on one thing, it is a waste of time to respond further to someone who doesn't care about other's rights to privacy based on whether s/he likes who or what they are.

[Omaha Steve]

97. What if they hacked and published...

Child porn abusers. Where is the line in the sand?

[Behind the Aegis]

98. That is illegal activity.

What is happening at Hudson Valley is NOT illegal activity. Do you honestly not see the difference? Now, as for the restaurant chefs in California serving foie gras, they are in violation of the law of their state, and that information should be passed onto the proper authorities, but the persons in Colorado and Virginia whose information was published, how is that kosher in your eyes?

[Omaha Steve]

99. So you care about kids that are abused

Buy don't have trouble looking at videos of what these ducks go through?

[Behind the Aegis]

100. Do you understand the difference between "legal" and "illegal?"

And, if you bother to look at what I have already written, more than once, I wish the practice would be outlawed, so take your strawman fallacies elsewhere and kindly answer the questions asked of you.

[Omaha Steve]

101. Just as much as you understand pain and suffering

Slavery was legal. Want that back?

[Behind the Aegis]

102. So you have nothing and continue to flail with one logical fallacy after another.

Do you support the hacking of a gay youth site and publishing those names and numbers? What about a site for testing of HIV? Sadly, I understand more about pain and suffering than you do about logic and legality.

[Omaha Steve]

55. It is in California!

[Behind the Aegis]

57. I must have glossed over that sentence.

I re-read it twice and saw it, that is the problem with reading on-line sometimes. I guess, then it is OK, so when we see names of pot users from other states, that will be acceptable, as well.

Um, the Hudson Valley factory seems to be in New York and not all customers are in CA. "The law does not prohibit the consumption of foie gras, giving it as a gift, or its importation from outside California."

[red dog 1]

56. Foie Gras is illegal in California.

[Behind the Aegis]

58. Poor reading on my part. I glossed over it.

"The law does not prohibit the consumption of foie gras, giving it as a gift, or its importation from outside California."

So, this is still a problem.

[Xithras]

59. Foie Gras is NOT illegal in California.

It was on the menu at a wedding reception I attended in Sacramento just a few weeks ago.

It's illegal for farms to specifically enlarge bird livers in California, and it can't be sold at restaurants. It's perfectly legal to import it from other states, and to posses and consume it. There are Foie Gras sellers all over the country who are more than willing to overnight you all the Foie Gras you can stomach. You just can't resell it.

[red dog 1]

62. You're right....my mistake.

[Omaha Steve]

63. 1/2 illegal?

[Bluenorthwest]

69. But note the angry chef in Laguna specifically says he sells it, in his resturant.

That is illegal, and Chef Mega Money has been doing it in spite of that law for 9 years.

[petronius]

93. Small correction: the law passed in 2004 but it only went into effect in July 2012

The delay was so that the one foie gras producer in CA could try and develop an acceptable technique (not sure if they did - their website lists everything as "Sold out" with a note that they can't currently sell any duck products).

But there's no doubt that some restaurants have been flouting the law since July, e.g. with promotions like a $50 glass of wine plus a 'complimentary' side of foie. Thus far, it doesn't seem like the state has done much about it...

[Warren DeMontague]

108. And poultry aren't people.

Not the same thing.

[Phillip McCleod]

20. good for them.

there *should* be a price to pay for animal cruelty.

[life long demo]

26. I think this is great

Who ever did it probably understands that if they are caught there are consequences. But still I think it's great especially in light of the fact that so many states are imposing ag-gag bills.

[MoonRiver]

31. Crying no tears for the foie gras bastards!

This is torture pure and simple. It must end.

[tblue]

38. Animal abusers get no sympathy from me.

YAAY!!!! Makes my day.

[MineralMan]

45. I don't eat foie gras. I don't care for it.

I don't eat pork belly, either. Too much fat is bad for my health.

I do like eating duck, though. My preference is wild duck, but I gave up duck hunting a few years ago. I like goose, too, but it's gotten hellaciously expensive. Again, I don't hunt anymore, or I'd hunt geese, too. Still, my Hmong neighbor often has a goose on the table during his big gatherings, so I get goose then. He hunts them. There are so many geese in Minnesota, and so few goose hunters.

Foie gras, though. Who want to eat a fatty liver? That said, it is wrong for people to threaten those who do eat it. Very wrong.

[Nine]

61. So anonymous hackers stole the info and North American Animal Liberation Press Office published it.

Great journalistic accountability. They'd better hope no one gets hurt because of this.

[aristocles]

64. Had some last night

And slices of duck breast with cranberries.

YUM!

[tblue]

74. Are you on the list?

Yet?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

75. Meanwhile, our government is force feeding prisoners in Guantanamo

http://rt.com/usa/guantanamo-prisoners-hunger-strike-551/

[Omaha Steve]

81. If they don't care about ducks...

People outside their circle of friends won't get any support either.

[panader0]

83. Thanks for the link

I posted about this a coupla weeks ago and haven't seen anything in the paper lately.

[Deep13]

79. Stupid appeal to mob justice.

Ducks are livestock. They're not humans and we don't have to care about their feelings. Really, with all the problems in the world, these people are worried about domesticated ducks? That's one of those "first world problems."

[Omaha Steve]

91. Domesticated???

You missed this above perhaps?

http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-food/foie-gras.aspx


To produce "foie gras" (which literally means "fatty liver&quot , workers ram pipes down male ducks' or geese's throats two or three times daily and pump as much as 4 pounds of grain and fat into the animals' stomachs, causing their livers to bloat to up to 10 times their normal size. Many birds have difficulty standing because of their engorged livers, and they may tear out their own feathers and cannibalize each other out of stress.

The birds are kept in tiny wire cages or packed into sheds. On some farms, a single worker may be expected to force-feed 500 birds three times each day. Because of this rush, animals are often treated roughly and left injured and suffering.

A PETA investigation at Hudson Valley Foie Gras in New York (then called "Commonwealth Enterprises&quot found that so many ducks died when their organs ruptured from overfeeding that workers who killed fewer than 50 birds per month were given a bonus. Many ducks develop foot infections, kidney necrosis, spleen damage, bruised and broken bills, and tumor-like lumps in their throats. One duck had a maggot-infested neck wound so severe that water spilled out of it when he drank.

Other investigations at Hudson Valley Foie Gras and America's other leading foie gras producer, Sonoma Foie Gras in California, revealed that ducks were crammed into filthy, feces-ridden sheds and that others were isolated in wire cages that were so small that they could barely move. Investigators also observed barrels full of dead ducks who had choked to death or whose organs had ruptured during the traumatic force-feeding process. The investigators rescued 15 ducks, including two who were being eaten alive by rats because they could not move.


FULL info at link.

[red dog 1]

106. Thanks for posting this, Omaha Steve.

[LostOne4Ever]

107. Okay

So far we have had input from PETA, and from Anthony Bourdain. I see myself as a scientific person, so how about we get something scientific and not base our conclusions from two biased sources? Or at least not as biased.

The EU has a report on this:

http://ec.europa.eu/food/fs/sc/scah/out17_en.pdf

Lets see what it says shall we? Chapter 5 Consequences of Forced Feeding. Welfare indicators. Bingo

[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#dcdcdc; padding-bottom:5px; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-bottom:none; border-radius:0.4615em 0.4615em 0em 0em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"] Chapter 5.1 Paragraph 1[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#f0f0f0; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-top:none; border-radius:0em 0em 0.4615em 0.4615em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]

Daily hand-feeding of ducks and geese is normally associated with a positive response by the
animals towards the person feeding them. In the preparation of this report, members of the
Committee visited a number of farms practising force feeding but this behaviour was not
observed by the visitors on these occasions. When ducks or geese were in a pen during the
force feeding procedure, they kept away from the person who would force feed them even
though that person normally supplied them with food. At the end of the force feeding
procedure, the birds were less well able to move and were usually panting but they still moved
away from or tried to move away from the person who had force fed them. In a pilot
experiment carried out on ducks kept individually in cages, the birds displayed less avoidance
behaviour to the force feeder’s visit than to the visit of a neutral person coming along the
cages one hour after the force feeding (Faure, personal communication). This suggests that
the stranger is more aversive than the force feeder at this time but gives no information about
the force feeding process itself.

So we can infer from this that: The force feeding process is not "FUN" for the animals, but its not as tramatic as meeting a stranger.

[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#dcdcdc; padding-bottom:5px; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-bottom:none; border-radius:0.4615em 0.4615em 0em 0em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"] Chapter 5.1 Paragraph 6 - 7[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#f0f0f0; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-top:none; border-radius:0em 0em 0.4615em 0.4615em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]

Some birds become unable to stand but there is no evidence available concerning the
frequency of inability to stand, or of joint damage, or of the extent of difficulty in walking.
Birds which are force fed seem to spend most of their time sitting rather than standing. The
widespread use of small cages in which the birds usually cannot stand in a normal standing
position makes it difficult to recognise leg problems and leg pain.

Hypertrophied livers can cause discomfort in a variety of other species. Hence it may be that
some discomfort results directly from the hypertrophied liver in force fed ducks and geese. It
appears that this has not been investigated

No direct evidence but it MAY (and probably does) cause pain in the legs and in general.

[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#dcdcdc; padding-bottom:5px; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-bottom:none; border-radius:0.4615em 0.4615em 0em 0em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"] Chapter 5.2 Paragraph 1[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#f0f0f0; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-top:none; border-radius:0em 0em 0.4615em 0.4615em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]

Birds, including ducks and geese, have a wide range of pain receptors and an elaborate pain
recognition system. Most injuries caused by tissue damage during handling or tube insertion
would result in pain. The oropharyngeal area is particularly sensitive and is physiologically
adapted to perform a gag reflex in order to prevent fluids entering the trachea. Force feeding
will have to overcome this reflex and hence the birds may initially find this distressing and
injury may result.
The beak of a duck is richly innervated and the insertion of a ring through the beak would
cause pain during the operation and might cause neuroma formation, and hence prolonged
pain, thereafter. Similarly, most injuries to the feet caused by inadequate flooring would be
painful.

Its painful to the birds.

[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#dcdcdc; padding-bottom:5px; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-bottom:none; border-radius:0.4615em 0.4615em 0em 0em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"] Chapter 5.3 Paragraph 9[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#f0f0f0; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-top:none; border-radius:0em 0em 0.4615em 0.4615em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]

None of the measures used by Faure and his colleagues (1995-1998) indicate welfare
problems. This conclusion could be due to the fact that the adrenal responses were of a small
magnitude and that the sample sizes used were not large enough to reach statistical
significance but in most of the cases not even tendencies were observed. Adrenal responses
are sometimes masked during feeding so that all individuals which are feeding show increases
or other effects are suppressed. Destombes et al. (1997) showed that restraint of ducks in a
net immediately after force feeding induced a large increase in corticosterone levels so it is
clear that adrenal activity was far from the maximal level. However, because only the
measurement of the pituitary adrenal activity has been taken into account, no definite
conclusions can be drawn concerning the physiological activity of birds in response to force
feeding

No definite physiological issues were found.

[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#dcdcdc; padding-bottom:5px; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-bottom:none; border-radius:0.4615em 0.4615em 0em 0em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"] Chapter 5.4.4 Paragraph 9[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#f0f0f0; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-top:none; border-radius:0em 0em 0.4615em 0.4615em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]

"If individual birds are given too much food or are fed for too long,
their individual metabolic capacity will be overloaded and dysfunctioning will occur. An
inflammatory process results in fibrosis, occlusion of the blood vessels, local liver
haemorrhages, and jaundice. However, it is strongly in the interest of the farmer to avoid this
phenomenon, because the animals suffer from the resulting diseases and because the resulting
fat liver is of no commercial value. "

They have shown that the duck undergo pathological hepatic steatosis from the force-feeding. If they undergo this treatment longer than its proscribed it will kill the birds; if discontinued it results in a return to normal function in 4 weeks. If over done it can cause other serious health problems but this also kills the commercial worth of the bird.

You can read the rest yourself ill summarize from here. They have more fluid feces and some of them get curved and sticky feathers, inflamed feet from the cages. They tend to have less low lesion rates on their livers, and slightly higher lesion rates on their chest than animals kept on the floor (though it is consistent with animals kept in cages).

Though it was speculated that there would be an increase in PAINFUL lesions in the oesophagus, this was not observed by the EU researchers. Another study show it occurs around 6% of the time.

Mortality went to 2-4% up from 0.2% in normal ducks.

My opinion is that it still sounds unnecessarily cruel but under normal conditions not as bad as Peta makes it sound. The details from Peta sounds like the farms they visited over fed the ducks beyond what is normally prescribed. As Anthony Bourdain said, farms that treat their ducks that way ruin their own product.

[cofly339]

109. I'm sorry that this brought me out of just lurking here

Last edited Mon Apr 29, 2013, 07:28 AM - Edit history (1)

peta is barking up the wrong tree, hudson valley produces the best foie in the country, the stuff from sonoma showed more bruising in comparison. I can understand why folks could find foie production heinous, gavrage is profoundly disturbing at a certain level, but when you work with these particular livers they are incredibly free of bruising. I'm a cook, I've been working with this sort of product for 20 years, and i do see why some see it as barbaric, but I think the vast majority of commercial meat is leagues worse, these are small production facilities, nothing like the big-ag stuff we should actually concern ourselves with.

[hrmjustin]

112. Welcome to DU my friend!

[joeybee12]

113. What an asshat that Chef Santana is...

They care more about animals than people, the dipsht says...why, because you don't fucking care about them? Can he be arrested for what he did?