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Sat Apr 27, 2013, 02:50 PM

Obama's Fault

Last edited Sat Apr 27, 2013, 03:48 PM - Edit history (2)

_______________________

Liberal Librarian ‏@Lib_Librarian 1h

So the ENTIRE FUCKING SENATE votes for FAA bill, and yet, of course, it's Obama's fault. Yes, paragon Bernie Sanders (Elizabeth Warren) acquiesced to the bill.


related:

No benefit in Obama vetoing furlough fix of FAA employees
http://bobcesca.thedailybanter.com/blog-archives/2013/04/faa-suspends-all-furloughs.html?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=faa-suspends-all-furloughs&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

62 replies, 5238 views

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Arrow 62 replies Author Time Post
Reply Obama's Fault (Original post)
bigtree Apr 2013 OP
Skittles Apr 2013 #1
Post removed Apr 2013 #6
AnotherMcIntosh Apr 2013 #30
Lady Freedom Returns Apr 2013 #2
Skittles Apr 2013 #8
Lady Freedom Returns Apr 2013 #9
Whisp Apr 2013 #25
Skittles Apr 2013 #58
Cha Apr 2013 #11
Fuddnik Apr 2013 #38
Cha Apr 2013 #3
freshwest Apr 2013 #4
treestar Apr 2013 #17
Cha Apr 2013 #5
rhett o rick Apr 2013 #15
Cha Apr 2013 #23
rhett o rick Apr 2013 #34
Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2013 #7
Cha Apr 2013 #10
Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2013 #12
Cha Apr 2013 #21
bvar22 Apr 2013 #19
Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2013 #27
treestar Apr 2013 #14
Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2013 #16
treestar Apr 2013 #18
Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2013 #22
treestar Apr 2013 #24
Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2013 #26
woo me with science Apr 2013 #36
Fuddnik Apr 2013 #39
treestar Apr 2013 #40
Fuddnik Apr 2013 #44
treestar Apr 2013 #50
Fuddnik Apr 2013 #53
SammyWinstonJack Apr 2013 #54
AnotherMcIntosh Apr 2013 #31
treestar Apr 2013 #43
AnotherMcIntosh Apr 2013 #49
treestar Apr 2013 #51
Number23 Apr 2013 #61
treestar Apr 2013 #13
rhett o rick Apr 2013 #28
Cha Apr 2013 #32
rhett o rick Apr 2013 #35
Cha Apr 2013 #37
treestar Apr 2013 #41
rhett o rick Apr 2013 #46
treestar Apr 2013 #52
rhett o rick Apr 2013 #59
treestar Apr 2013 #60
SammyWinstonJack Apr 2013 #56
Cha Apr 2013 #29
ProSense Apr 2013 #20
freshwest Apr 2013 #45
MannyGoldstein Apr 2013 #33
Fuddnik Apr 2013 #42
MannyGoldstein Apr 2013 #47
rhett o rick Apr 2013 #48
Fuddnik Apr 2013 #55
n2doc Apr 2013 #57
Jamaal510 Apr 2013 #62

Response to bigtree (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 03:05 PM

1. missing the point

the point is, there will be EXCEPTIONS for the cuts that affect the wealthy

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Response to Skittles (Reply #1)


Response to Skittles (Reply #1)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 04:14 PM

30. Exactly!

 

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Response to bigtree (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 03:08 PM

2. "ENTIRE FUCKING SENATE votes for FAA bill"

But it is Obama's fault...

"But he could veto it!"

But the Congress would just override it. But it is Obama's fault...

Ya know, it would be a big help if more people would start calling/e-mailing their reps and make sure they know where we stand. The other side has got their people doing it all the time. And we all know that it is the squeakiest wheel that get's the most oil.

Our work STARTS at the ballot box, not ends.

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Reply #2)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 03:16 PM

8. calling and emailing does not seem to make much of an impact anymore

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Response to Skittles (Reply #8)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 03:34 PM

9. Becase not enough of our side is doing it.

The best and cheapest way the Big Money does what they do is to get people out here to call on their reps. on their behalf.

We need to start doing more in mass. Those that are calling/e-mailing can't do it alone.

In truth those that do back the Big Money is a small number, but they are louder. They are always at it, due to the pressure/fear indoctrination of the big money.

We can, if we gather our numbers again, make those fearful voices of the minority. We can do it, we have the numbers, but to many have given up. We must get the word, the fever, out their again.

Big Money is counting on us not calling/e-mailing so their small numbers will be able to keep looking like the majority. I say we start disappointing Big Money and get our voices loud again!

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Reply #9)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 04:08 PM

25. gerrymandering makes them titanium.

 

that's why the teabaggers and their minions keep on crossing the lines - they are not threatened.

Sorry to be such a pessimist - but if public opinion on better gun laws was so high and the shits don't care about That - that just tells you they are not afraid of 'the people'. They have it in the bag, another way has to be found.

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Reply #9)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 05:49 PM

58. and you know that - how?

people get tired of seeing no results for their efforts

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Reply #2)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 03:41 PM

11. And, the DEMS voted for it for a reason, LFR.. they know the big picture just like

the President does.

From the link..

..And if you go down the list, I promise an overwhelming majority of Democrats who voted for yesterday’s bill also support ending all furloughs.

“Both sides are the same” is a terrible message to present at a time like this.

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Reply #2)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 04:41 PM

38. Passed with unanimous consent.

Translation: They were all meeting with donors somewhere else, and they didn't even take a vote.

If one. Just one Senator had objected, it's a fail, and they would have to discuss and vote on it.

So, Obama doesn't get ALL the blame. He could have still vetoed it, and they would have to really vote on it. The totally dysfunctional Senate shares some of the blame with Obama.

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Response to bigtree (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 03:10 PM

3. Yeah, any whiff and it brings out the ODS that has nothing to do with reality.

Democrats, including myself, have said for quite some time now that furloughs are a distinctly bad thing and that furloughs at the FAA in particular could have far reaching effects on the economy. And while Congress’s motivation for jumping into action may be cynical or selfish, that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t use the opportunity to put some people back to work.

As for the idea that President Obama should veto a bill that would end the furlough of FAA employees — there would be no benefit to doing so.

The bill passed with a solid, veto-proof super-majority, so even if the president felt inclined to veto the bill in the interest of negotiating a broader deal, he would have nothing to show for it other than weeks of bad press. And make no mistake — the effects of FAA furloughs on the press almost certainly played a role in how quickly they were averted.


I’m aware that Eric Cantor and John Boehner believe they’ve scored some big victory, but I don’t care what they think and neither should you.

thanks for the link, bigtree.. It wasn't just getting the planes on time. There are Safety Issues, too.

The Professional Aviation Safety Specialists, a union that represents FAA employees, reported a number of incidents it said were due to the furloughs.

In one case, it said several flights headed for Long Island MacArthur Airport in New York were diverted on Wednesday when a piece of equipment failed. "While the policy for this equipment is immediate restoral, due to sequestration and furloughs it was changed to next-day restoral," the union said.

http://news.yahoo.com/senate-passes-bill-ease-faa-furloughs-005441034--politics.html

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Response to bigtree (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 03:13 PM

4. He is the whipping post for those who need someone to blame.

Last edited Sat Apr 27, 2013, 04:59 PM - Edit history (1)

The price of gas just went down in my area:




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Response to freshwest (Reply #4)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 03:56 PM

17. And when gas prices go up, the same

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Response to bigtree (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 03:14 PM

5. Nobody's missing the point.. "W.H. warns against piecemeal sequester fixes"

President Obama plans to sign legislation eliminating FAA furloughs causing flight delays, but the administration is firmly against piecemeal fixes to other impacts of sequester cuts, press secretary Jay Carney said Friday.

"This is a one-off case, if you will," he said, adding "the sequester itself cannot be finessed. It is having negative consequences around the country."

http://www.politico.com/politico44/2013/04/wh-warns-against-piecemeal-sequester-fixes-162731.html



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Response to Cha (Reply #5)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 03:55 PM

15. You cant be serious. He is "firmly against piecemeal fixes" but cant or wont do

 

a damn thing about it. Explain being "firmly against" while signing such a bill?

Seems that the often used rationalization that the "GOP made him do it" wont work in this case. Seems the Democrats made him do it.

And the "he had to sign" because there was a veto proof majority is bullshit. He could at least show the America people that he is looking out for us. It would have been a good lesson for Congress to delay their vacation flights to override his veto.

Seem the buck doesnt stop at Pres Obama's desk.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #15)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 04:07 PM

23. He wanted to sign it just like those Dems who voted for it did so

for a reason. Looking at the WHOLE PICTURE of the FAA. Good for them.

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Response to Cha (Reply #23)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 04:24 PM

34. I am just bitter because they fooled me too. I thought that at least lots of people would be

 

hurt by sequestration and maybe we could get something done. How naive. I will tell you about the WHOLE PICTURE, the 99% are getting screwed. And either the Democrats are complicit or they're being played like a Stradivarius.

I wonder if the airline industry will send the checks to the Congress-critters homes or their offices.

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Response to bigtree (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 03:15 PM

7. So, he could have avoided caving and vetoed it.

 

And, if he wanted it to pass he wouldn't have been held to blame when it did.

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Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #7)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 03:36 PM

10. Veto Bernie Sanders and all the Dem Senators who voted FOR It.

It wouldn't have been worth it,

The only ones who are "blaming him" are the ones who aren't looking at the whole picture.

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Response to Cha (Reply #10)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 03:52 PM

12. It seems that the ones defending him are "blaming" the left for holding him to account.

 

He could have vetoed it and avoided the "blame".

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Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #12)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 03:59 PM

21. He didn't want to veto it.. the funds were in the FAA and they could be

reallocated. It wasn't just travelers who were affected.. there were Safety Issues, too.

The "left" can blame him all they want. I don't really give a shite. Blame away.

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Response to Cha (Reply #10)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 03:57 PM

19. "The Whole Picture" = "The Uniquely American Solution"

The RICH can BUY exceptions to The Sequester so that they don't have to suffer the slightest inconvenience, while The Rest of Us pay the bill.

The Whole Point of The Sequester is that Everybody Suffers!
Making special exceptions for the RICH kinda trashes the whole thing, doesn't it?

[font size=4]Its "The Uniquely American Solution"!!![/font]



You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.
[font size=5 color=green]Solidarity99![/font][font size=2 color=green]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/center]

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #19)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 04:11 PM

27. Well, we wouldn't want the poverty stricken politicians to be late for the fundraisers.

 

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Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #7)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 03:54 PM

14. Why would he veto it if Bernie Sanders is OK with it?

Why don't you throw Bernie under the bus too, at least be fair.

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Response to treestar (Reply #14)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 03:55 PM

16. Oh, I don't know. Maybe to avoid folding and being held to account for it.

 

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Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #16)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 03:57 PM

18. If Bernie Sanders voted for it, it must be "progressive" no?

Why did Bernie and Elizabeth Warren cave? And if they are for it, why aren't the DU progressives OK with it?

They must be thrown under the bus too.

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Response to treestar (Reply #18)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 04:05 PM

22. Really. Is Bernie's opinion sacrosanct to you?

 

I have no idea why they caved. Politics-as-usual would be my guess.

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Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #22)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 04:07 PM

24. You mean Bernie is too conservative for you?

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Response to treestar (Reply #24)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 04:10 PM

26. In this instance, yes.

 

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Response to treestar (Reply #24)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 04:34 PM

36. Now, did you take note of what Tierra y Libertad just did there?

No wonder your eyes are spinning.

When you spend your time trying to create a cult of personality around individual politicians, of course it throws your argument off when someone insists on focusing on the merits of issues instead, and rejects a third grade rhetorical attempt to suggest that they have been trapped or embarrassed if they don't approve of every single thing that politician ever does or says.

You see, that just made your argument look foolish, and juvenile. Just like the cult of personality.

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #36)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 04:47 PM

39. Let's just blame it on Ole Bernie.

He's not a REAL Democrat you know?

Bernie didn't vote for it, he probably threw up and said "fuck it". There was never an actual vote taken. It was done the cowardly way. Unanimous Consent. That way every one can blame everyone else.

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Response to Fuddnik (Reply #39)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 04:50 PM

40. That's your excuse for Bernie?

Why is it such a bad idea, if Bernie was OK with it?

IMO it is a shallow reaction to simply condemn it. There are a lot of reasons for airports to remain functioning.

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Response to treestar (Reply #40)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 04:54 PM

44. I'm sure you have equally valid reasons to throw kids off Head Start.

Talk about shallow cults of personality.

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Response to Fuddnik (Reply #44)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 05:06 PM

50. You are changing the subject

It's not about where I stand, it is about where Bernie stands. There must be some reason the airports are fundamental to the economy.

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Response to treestar (Reply #50)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 05:13 PM

53. And Wall Street Too!!

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #36)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 05:15 PM

54. ...

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Response to treestar (Reply #14)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 04:19 PM

31. Solution: Elect Bernie Sanders as President so that the buck stops with him. When he does

 

what Obama is doing, then we can respond similarily.

This it's-somebody-else's-fault or someone-else-did-it should stop. Truman wouldn't have passed the buck to someone else.

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #31)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 04:53 PM

43. No one said the buck did not stop with Obama

Though I think Truman is wrong in that. We should not allow the presidency that much power and it doesn't have it under the Constitution.

Why should Obama veto it if he thinks it is the right thing to do? The argument here is about whether it is the right thing to do. When the usual bellwethers of all that is Truly Progressive don't have a problem with it, then maybe there is no problem with it? Maybe it's not just to benefit the rich, or why would not Elizabeth Warren speak out? As Senator she can afford to do so more easily than the President. Same for Bernie.

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Response to treestar (Reply #43)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 05:05 PM

49. Excuse me, but there are those who always come up with excuses and others to blame.

 

Since when, if ever, has the Obama-is-the-greatest camp ever admitted any error that can be laid at the doorstep of Obama?

Obama did not close Gitmo? Oh, that's the Republicans' fault.

Obama participated in giving hundreds of billions of dollars to the banksters? Bush did that before Obama took office.

We are mired down in Middle-East wars and occupations? It started with Bush.

Even with the planned cuts to Social Security. The Republicans wanted to do this first.

For some, nothing is ever his fault. For some, the buck never stops at his desk.

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #49)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 05:07 PM

51. This is not about Obama

But about the fact that apparently the Doyens of all that is Progressive Agree with him in this instance.

So we could as easily say those who blame Obama for everything and find him wrong every time. can't stop doing it even when he and Progressive Icons have the same opinion.

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Response to treestar (Reply #51)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 09:29 PM

61. Hammer meet nail

those who blame Obama for everything and find him wrong every time. can't stop doing it even when he and Progressive Icons have the same opinion.

Obama is so wrong so often that even when Sts Bernie and Elizabeth agree with him, he STILL has to get the fucking blame for doing something wrong. Even if no one knows precisely what the something wrong is, that damned Obama MUST be blamed for it.

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Response to bigtree (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 03:53 PM

13. If Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders voted for it

It must be necessary.

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Response to treestar (Reply #13)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 04:11 PM

28. So Pres Obama, the leader of the Democratic Party

 

has no responsibility here? I find that very interesting. He admits that we shouldnt let Congress fix the sequestration piecemeal but apparently isnt going to do much about it. This is exactly what the GOP wants, once again. Funny that.

"Dont look at the President signing the bill, look over there at Sen Sanders and Sen Warren. Blame them, blame someone."

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #28)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 04:19 PM

32. There was no benefit in Vetoing it.. PBO, Warren, Sanders, and all the

Dems were on the same page.

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Response to Cha (Reply #32)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 04:28 PM

35. Doesnt that strike you odd that the Democrats were on the same page as the REpublicans?

 

Complicit is the word. We're fucked.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #35)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 04:39 PM

37. No, it doesn't. It's not a black and white world.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #28)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 04:51 PM

41. I'm not against it

But for those who are, why should not every Senator be "blamed" too?

And people who think Elizabeth Warren is their White Knight, what do they have to say about it?

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Response to treestar (Reply #41)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 05:01 PM

46. They all made a huge mistake. The Democrats that is. They fell right into the trap.

 

Piecemeal fixing the sequestration is the Republican Dream and now the DEmocrats bought into it.

The whole purpose of the sequestration was to spread the hurt around hoping that hurting the 1% would force the Repubs hand. But the Democrats screwed themselves. Sure it was necessary to fix the FAA. But how are you going to help Grandma? School children? Vets?

I expect the president to lead the party and stand up against the GOP. Pointing out that Sen Warren made a mistake doesnt reduce the president's responsibility.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #46)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 05:09 PM

52. Maybe Obama, Warren and others don't agree it is only for the 1%.

that's the shallow, knee jerk thinking. The economy must keep cranking, especially due to the sequester. Some things are pivotal and safe air traffic is one of them.

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Response to treestar (Reply #52)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 06:38 PM

59. LOL. "It isnt good just for the 1%". That's exactly what they say about tinkle-down.

 

We must keep the corporations making profits or it will hurt the 99%. That is the number one goal of Congress. You think that is a little knee jerky, well that's what deniers have been saying for the last 30 years. Compromise, compromise, this is better than something worse. And now look where we are.

It's just about time for another bank bailout. I cant wait to see how the deniers rationalize that. "It's not just for the 1%."

Our democracy is crashing and the deniers are saying, "it could be worse, it's not Obama's fault, it could be worse." I hate to tell them that someday it wont be able to be worse and the revolution is going to happen with or without them.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #59)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 07:59 PM

60. Do you really suppose that if the economy crashed it would be a good thing?

Of course all businesses have to make a profit, or they close and hire nobody. What compromises would you not make to stop people starving in the streets? There comes a point where the 1% can have all the crap they want, so long as others are not suffering. You're the obverse of the people who can't stand to see anyone get a penny they didn't earn in relief.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #28)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 05:23 PM

56. "Blame them, blame someone." Blame anyone but Obama. It's never his fault.

He is the ultimate victim.


How sad is that?

Either for him or his ever faithful supporters.


It's getting ridiculous.

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Response to treestar (Reply #13)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 04:12 PM

29. Exactly treestar.. it is something they wanted. They weren't arm twisted. PBO,

Elizabeth, Bernie, and all the others Dems are in agreement on this.

I take their word this is the best way and it makes sense to me.

From the OP's link

..And if you go down the list, I promise an overwhelming majority of Democrats who voted for yesterday’s bill also support ending all furloughs.

“Both sides are the same” is a terrible message to present at a time like this.

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Response to bigtree (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 03:58 PM

20. What I don't get is

why some refuse to call out Congress, especially given the level of outrage some of these votes spark.

Unanimous Consent-- If Not Courageous
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022763819

Congress votes to reduce or repeal the estate tax (something the President has been trying to fix), but it's Obama's fault.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2757685

It's great that members of Congress speak up on key issues, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be held accountable.

I mean, some key Democrats are trying to repeal the medical device tax that in part funds the health care law. They're not even putting forward closing a loophole or other tax to replace it.



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Response to ProSense (Reply #20)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 04:56 PM

45. Many people don't know basic civics, how to contact their reps, or take the time to follow up on

bills and see how much is being fought over in the details.

Media is paid to push all the buttons of low information voters and build up some as heroes and tear down others as villains. They are never going to go to the final tally, intentions and compromises to be made.

And the big picture, never. Each of these actions are part of big picture of making government work and the media is not about showing how government works. More like showing every flaw, as their owners believe. If they don't find something real, they will push conspiracies, but it all has the same effect. The strategy is to portray government as an alien entity, against the people, when it is not.

That takes time and reflection and morevoer, good faith. Not a sound bite delivered between commercials to a public used to instant gratification and going with a short attention span.

Their scripts are written against progressives. It wasn't just CNN who declared Obamacare dead before the USSC said otherwise. FOX also went with that script. They parroted the thinking of their billionaire owners. They were sure they had it in the bag, just as they were sure Obama was going to lose the election.

So a public who is looking for a fast answer, picks Obama as the target of all that goes wrong. It's quicker and easier to equate our elected officials with 'them' and corporations and lobbyists for those who haven't worked in these processes.

We can all get into a group and lobby. But we have to organize, commit to spending time and making meetings and friends, and not shout our heads off online or run away. That's what media is telling us to do. If we don't get what we want as fast as the news cycle turns, some of us just give up. And we know exactly who that serves.

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Response to bigtree (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 04:23 PM

33. Somebody should talk to the leader of the Democratic Party, they

 

need this information!

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #33)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 04:52 PM

42. You mean the Chair of the DNC?

The same one from Florida, who aided by Bill (DINO) Nelson pushed through a new Florida Democratic Party Chair, who used to be a lobbyist for ChoicePoint, and her husband was on the Bush legal team during Bush v Gore.

That leader of the Democratic Party? Debbie Whasername Schlitz?

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Response to Fuddnik (Reply #42)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 05:02 PM

47. Hmm... who's the Democrat at the top of the heap?

 

The most influential Democrat of all?

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #47)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 05:05 PM

48. Is this a trick question?

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #47)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 05:16 PM

55. Heap?

It's a pretty big pile.

Oh! That other guy!

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Response to bigtree (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 05:40 PM

57. I don't blame Obama. I blame congress.

Anyone who thinks this can be placed only on the Repubs heads is fooling themselves. The way this went down meant that congress and both parties get the blame. Obama at least complained in his address today that the sequester should be entirely dealt with, not just a piece.

Everyone who does pay attention to these things sees that CONgress can work swiftly, and efficiently, and in a bipartisan manner. But only when it is something that directly affects them. Everyone else, especially the powerless and poor, gets the slow shaft.

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Response to bigtree (Original post)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 10:09 PM

62. K&R

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