You Won’t Believe What These Muslims Are Protesting About

[redqueen]

When a Muslim fraternity from the University of Texas at Dallas took to the streets to protest against domestic violence, these striking pictures made waves around the world. Muslim America rocks — we just don’t hear about it often.



...

http://www.upworthy.com/you-won-t-believe-what-these-muslims-are-protesting-about?g=2&c=bl3

Posted by an atheist who is concerned about some of the anti-religious hatred and bigotry being shared here lately.

Yes, there are extremists of all sorts, including religions. No, that doesn't give you the right to be an asshole.

[drm604]

1. Why won't I believe it?

Obviously, Muslims come in all stripes, just like Christians. They range from very conservative to very liberal.

[redqueen]

3. This is aimed at the people who don't think that way. nt

[Comrade Grumpy]

6. Obviously, it's not so obvious to some people.

[dkf]

2. Too bad Tamerlan wasn't around these guys.

Of course he would have probably called them infidels and interrupted various meetings.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. Cause we all know Tamerlan Tsarnaev is the

Only Muslim in then world... Be fair, how about Timothy McVeigh? He was a Christian. So by that broad brush you are using, all Christians are extremists too.

[dkf]

7. No he isn't. He is generally atypical of American Muslims as is his mother.

That is why he felt more comfortable in Dagestan where he apparently wanted to stay.

How many American Muslims believe 9/11 was a plot by the US to frame Muslims. That is crazy talk.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. How Americans believe it?

I have met quite a few, natively born Christian Americans to boot.

The Truthers are not just Muslims, they are mostly NOT Muslim.

But hey, if you care to continue with the brush ...none will stop ya

Here, a handy tool

[uppityperson]

10. I often disagree with the poster you are poking, but in this case so far he's ok, not sure why

you are doing this though since he is talking about 1 person, not a group.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. I am not poking, but you know what?

I just pointed out the broad brush.

Have a good day

[uppityperson]

12. Broad brushing one person. Oh kay. eom

[redqueen]

21. I think perhaps posting about what an extremist would do,

in a thread about the broad brushing of all due to the actions of the extremists, could be perceived as disruptive.

We all know the extremists exist. And in the context of this particular type of extremist, which the media here has been demonizing for years, none of us need lessons in how they might act.

[dkf]

25. Isn't your post and the rally partly a response to what happened?

Or was it planned independently of the incident or prior to and you have only found it now?

Right now we are confronting the result of a very drastic position on a hard line version of Islam. These guys are the antidote I would assume. So I posit the question, could exposure to groups like this have turned Tamerlan around? Or does it make him more upset as did his own mosques preachings on MLK. How else do you get to people like Tamerlan to think more like this group?

[tammywammy]

30. The rally was on March 24.

http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=18906879

Members of Alif Laam Meem, the founding chapter of the new Alpha Lambda Mu Fraternity, held signs that said "Muslims Say No to Domestic Violence" and "Muslims Say Yes to Women's Rights" at the Men's Rally Against Domestic Violence in Dallas on March 24 to protest the abuse of women and to put a positive face on a religion they say is often misunderstood.

"Muslims are always on defense," fraternity president Ali Mahmoud said in a phone interview on Monday morning. "We usually get called in to explain ourselves and instead we decided to take the offense and tell people what Islam is instead of what it isn't."

A sophomore who was "born and raised in Dallas" on Spongebob and the occasional fast food meal just like a lot of other young Americans, Mahmoud thinks people often have the wrong idea when it comes to Islam and domestic violence.

"We wanted to clarify the misconception that any kind of domestic violence is allowed in our religion," he said. "And it may seem apparent through the media that it's allowed, but that's majorly a cultural phenomenon and not an actual teaching of our religion."

[Honeycombe8]

52. I don't think McVeigh was religious at all. So if he was raised Christian...

he wasn't a practicing one and didn't live his life according to any religion, that I have read. Unlike the Boston bombers, who were, according to members of the family, radical in their religion, and their religion played a part in their crimes, obviously.

[nadinbrzezinski]

54. Ok, how about Rudolph, who went after an abortion clinic?

We got 'em

[Honeycombe8]

57. But that's going after a source of the disagreement (if that's what you'd call it).

The main people who are terrorizing innocent Americans (that is, those who haven't done anything to the criminal and aren't connected to their cause directly), are Muslims. Like what the IRA did, when they aimed their terrorism at innocent British citizens because they had a beef with the British government.

At least I can't think of another religion or group that is doing that to Americans.

But there are wackos and evil people of every race and religion and non-religion and culture, who will kill innocent people for some cause. I was just pointing out about McVeigh.

[nadinbrzezinski]

58. Ironically you made my point

But there are wackos and evil people of every race and religion and non-religion and culture, who will kill innocent people for some cause. I was just pointing out about McVeig

I love it...

And this is the point, explained clearly. The people who commit terrorist acts are usually extremists and a minority of any group.

Sorry, but there are 1.5 BILLION Muslims...I won't join you

[Turborama]

16. FWIW, I got what you meant here and down thread

And you're making some good points.

It just looks like 1 poster read you wrong.

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. It happens

[HappyMe]

4. k&r

The bigotry and hate has been way too intense.

[zeeland]

9. You have the highest post count

I've seen.

Oh, and great pic.

[lame54]

13. Excuse me - I have every right to be an asshole...

That's what makes this country great

[Phillip McCleod]

14. wrong. it's not 'anti-religious hatred' anymore than it is 'bigotry'..

..to point out that fundamentalism and even violent extremism have as much or more basis in holy scriptures as do liberal and moderate reinterpretations.

indeed, the reinterpretations are cherry-picked, whereas the fundamentalists may cite chapter and verse of the koran, bible, or upanishads for that matter to justify the oppression of whole classes of people, theocracy, war on other faiths, and a host of other modern evils.

it's the liberal believers like the men pictured who have the uphill battle of trying to reach into the brains of fundies and pluck out the verses of their scripture that make them beat their wives into submission.

to hate religion for what it is, what it will continue to be as long as it's *written down that way*, is not bigotry. what is bigotry is to hate believers for the act of believing. to hate religion is to hate an idea.

i hate that idea, ok? it's no good.

[Canuckistanian]

44. +1000

Good points, all.

[Marrah_G]

15. I hope their speaking out can help start a sweeping change within their religion

I'd like to all religions move towards true equality and worth for women.

[FuzzyRabbit]

29. A sweeping change?

No "sweeping change" is required.

Most Muslims, by far, are not fundamentalists. The press in this country portrays all Muslims as extreme fundamentalists, but don't believe it. If you knew any Muslims, as I do, you would know they are just like anyone else.

Hell, they don't even proselytize like many Christians I know.

[Marrah_G]

34. Yes, a sweeping change

When you look at women's inequality around the world, religion is most often the root cause.

[FuzzyRabbit]

40. When you look at women's inequality around the world, religion is most often the root cause.

Agreed, but Islam is certainly not alone in this.

My point was that very few Muslims are the terrorists that the popular press would have you believe they are.

[Marrah_G]

41. I didn't say Islam was alone in this.

It takes a movement to change the views of a massive religion. I hope to see more and more men stepping up and changing how their religion thinks.

[pampango]

46. Thanks. Confirmed by this Pew poll.

http://www.pewglobal.org/2012/07/10/most-muslims-want-democracy-personal-freedoms-and-islam-in-political-life/

[Phillip McCleod]

47. no but there are shades of 'wrong' and islam is *more* wrong..

..on the question of not just women's rights, but a complex of other related human rights issues, as well.

[H2O Man]

17. Recommended.

Thank you for this.

[ninehippies]

18. check these guys out

http://www.upworthy.com/this-is-what-happens-when-a-judge-sentences-a-man-to-dress-up-like-a-woman-2?c=ufb1

[redqueen]

23. Oh yes, thank you!

Those guys are doing a very necessary thing.

[sigmasix]

19. muslims have Teabaggers too

Professor Zappa spoke about the dangers of fundamentalism in his song "Dumb All Over"- which includes the lyric
"You can't run a country by a book of religion- Not by a heap, a lump or a smidgin', of foolish rules of ancient date, designed to make you all feel great, while you fold, spindle and mutilate those unbelievers from a nieghboring state."
I miss Frank's music and his lyrical ability to capture the hypocrisy of the modern American right wing culture war.
Fundamentalist conspiracy theories are a serious threat to all human life. In the same song Mr. Zappa shares this observation about "end of days" fandamentalist teaching-"And I mean it won't blow up and disappear- it'll just look ugly for a thousand years"
It is comforting to know that other countries have thier own treasonous Teabagger fundamentalists. The problems we face have nothing to do with expressions of faith in the creator, and more to do with fundamentalist religious doctrine and dogma. The fundamentalists of any religion are to blame for violence, hatred and unreasoning bigotry.
Too bad there is no psychological test that can be administrated to uncover the fundamentalist mind set within individuals. Because fundamentalists represent such a serious threat to our future, we ought to be perfecting a treatment regime to cure them of thier serious mental and moral disabilities.

[Phillip McCleod]

48. tell me.. where is that line then?

you make it sound as if it's easy to find, but it is not.. the lines between traditional religious belief, fundamentalism and violent extremism are not so cut and dry.

in point of fact liberal and moderate believers are more likely to rush to the defense of fundies of their own faith than they are non-believers who, even correctly and cogently, criticize the tenets of the faith.. not even believers, just the immoral *tenets*.

it is this dynamic that needs interrupting before fundies can be isolated, because those of us on the outside of a particular faith community have less than no influence. that change will have to come from within.

so far, liberal and moderate believers have been *woefully remiss* in their responsibility to the progressive movement they claim to support.

[sigmasix]

89. agreed- moderation is the responsibility

The moderate members of a faith club ought to be working hard to aleviate the social illnesses caused by the radical fundies within their movement. I don't see much evidence of this endeavor on the part of American neo-Christian right wingers. That may very well be because there are no moderates within the neo-Christian right wing in America. There comes a time in the lives of many adults when they must choose between the single minded moral simplicity of childhood and the nuanced moral responsibilities of an adult. This is the main disability of the Teabagger mind set- they remain morally and emotionally immature by choice. Perhaps the maturity process threatens thier willfull ignorance and bigoted world view.

[watoos]

22. Ah, now I see why

Republicans don't see eye to eye with Muslims. Muslims are pro-women.

[Blue_In_AK]

26. Thank you for this

and especially your last paragraph since I was the recipient of some of that.

[Phillip McCleod]

49. you gave as good as you got, as i recall.

anti-atheist bigotry is far more rampant on this site than anti-religion sentiment.. and BTW we aren't anti-religious.. we are anti-religion. not anti-believer, but anti-belief.

until liberal believers will accept that fact there can be no real dialogue.

[Blue_In_AK]

55. Just defending my family.

I'm not anti-anybody until they start attacking my family. And I certainly am not a terrorist sympathizer or a "muslim fucking piece of shit," which is what I was being accused of.

I myself was raised Christian (Quaker/Methodist) but currently am agnostic. The universe and all that's in it is amazing and full of wonder to me, but I don't believe it was created by a "god." I would categorize myself as somewhat spiritual but definitely not religious.

[wryter2000]

27. Thank you from a Christian

Actually agnostic Episcopalian, but I guess that makes me a Christian.

[Whisp]

28. healthy big rec here! K&R!

I'm about sick of hearing how 'they' are so different from precious, perfect 'us'. How as a citizen of the West some think they have the right to judge others - well look in your own backyard and fix that. The war on women is global - stand up to rape jokes, stand up for your women and girls as friends, instead of being shy about being teased by your buddies that you've been 'pussified' when you do the right thing and stand up for what Is right.

[redqueen]

42. Excellent, excellent point.

Sadly I think that's what is behind a lot of this.

A desperate need to deflect attention elsewhere.

[Sand Wind]

31. Thank's to show that! Nt

[Quantess]

32. This is hopeful.

K & R

[Politicub]

33. Reformed Islam! I like it.

Was bound to happen at some point, and I'm glad to see it gaining some traction.

[City Lights]

35. Thank you for posting this. Good to see. nt

[MellowDem]

36. For Fuck's Sake, "Anti-religious hatred and bigotry"? What ignorant bullshit!

There is NOTHING WRONG with criticizing religion. Given that Islam and Christianity, the two biggest, are both inherently misogynistic and oppressive in a whole host of ways through their religious text, and given that their holy books have disgusting, vile, horrible shit all throughout them, YOU WILL hear all sorts of criticism of these belief systems on a progressive forum.

It is NOT "being an asshole" to criticize these belief systems.

The FACT that quite a few Christians and Muslims in the developed world have had to come to grips with their belief systems and moderate their beliefs through constant intellectual dishonesty and cognitive dissonance doesn't change what the belief systems are, it doesn't change what is written in the religious texts, and it doesn't change the flaw in faith-based beliefs.

Your "concern" is nothing more than a defense of the millenia-long MASSIVE PRIVILEGE religion gets in comparison to every idea, philosophy, or belief system out there as somehow being protected from harsh criticism. Well FUCK THAT.

I hear nobody complaining on here about incredibly harsh criticism of the Republican Party platform. Do you know why? Because it's perfectly rational and relevant. What make religions special? Anyone? Bueller?

There is no such thing as "anti-religious hatred", that's like saying "anti-austerity hatred" or some other made up crap. It's a way to try to label criticism of an idea as somehow impolite. And there certainly isn't anything bigoted with rationally criticizing a belief system.

As for the story, I'm glad that most Christians and Muslims and Jews etc. in the US pretty much don't believe most of or follow most of their own belief system or religious texts, that they cherry-pick the progressive sentiments and ignore the conservative ones in many instances, because if they were more consistent, it would be a pretty terrible place. But I have no problem pointing out that their belief system is still terrible, and their use of intellectual dishonesty, cognitive dissonance, and irrational apologetics does nothing to change that fact, it proves the point.

Faith-based thinking is dangerous and bad for society, and I will always point that out, and it's not being an asshole to do so. Calling those who fairly and rationally criticize belief systems "assholes" and "bigots" is stupid ignorant shit.

[toby jo]

38. Heh, heh. 'MellowDem' . And I agree with you wholeheartedly.

Great pic, though. I like to see stereotypes breaking down, very good stuff.

[Apophis]

39. I agree.

I got attacked here last week for being an Islamaphobe for daring to question their religious beliefs and practices!

[appal_jack]

43. I rec'd for the hopeful OP pic, but I'll kick for this excellent response too.

Last edited Sat Apr 27, 2013, 10:28 PM - Edit history (1)

I rec'd for the hopeful OP pic, but I'll kick for this excellent response too. I was raised Catholic, and long ago left that all behind. The still-religious friends and family I can actually get along with are those who indeed "cherry-pick" their religion. They eat shrimp & shellfish, wear clothing of mixed fibers, treat women and all races as equals, would find slavery abhorrent, etc. despite guidance to the contrary in their Bible.

The one important point you miss, MellowDem, is that people ARE rational to value their cultures, or at least certain tenets of them. Even though I find far too much about Catholicism to be absolutely repugnant, I also recognize the joy & comfort possible through the community of the Church, the smell of incense, the familiar prayers & rituals, the bone-shaking rumble of a pipe organ. Do I hope that more Catholics can resist misogyny and authoritarianism even as they continue to embrace the beautiful parts of their culture? Yes, I do. There's no law that says people have to be rational all the time (and even if there was, secular humanist rebel that I am, I would be sure to break it).

I agree that there is absolutely nothing wrong with criticizing religion. But give these young fellows some credit: if they are really walking their talk about women's rights, then they are helping to move Islamic culture forward. It may seem as silly as a pro-choice Catholic (I know plenty) or a scientific Baptist (I know a few of those too), but it's certainly better than a world filled with close-minded fundies.

-app

[SunSeeker]

64. "Islamic culture"?

Given that Islam is practiced by every race in just about every country, what constitutes "Islamic culture"? The religion itself? That implies every time someone criticizes a religion, they are criticizing a "culture" and per the OP, bigots.

I don't think MellowDem missed an important point. I did not read MellowDem's reply as suggesting people are irrational to value their cultures. It was not a criticism of culture, it was a criticism of religion. Even if religion and culture become one and the same (per your Catholic "community of the Church" example), that still does not suddenly make any criticism of the religion bigotry.

Just because there are good parts/practices to a religion does not put that religion beyond criticism. Criticism of an aspect of a religion does not imply criticism of all aspects of that religion. And it certainly does not amount of bigotry.

[appal_jack]

68. Did I say "bigotry?"

I realize that Islam is a religion that spans many nations, and meshes with diverse geographic and ethnic cultures.

I used "Islamic culture" as a shorthand for the intersections of these factors.

I actually think it's fine and reasonable to criticize both religion & culture wherever they fall short of the ideals of equality, justice, and other human rights. Cultural relativism is an interesting anthropological concept, but it's not the law of my land...

My post was primarily a compliment and affirmation of MellowDem's.

But I stand by my point that many people will choose and/or need to retain some or many of their religious beliefs and practices they have inherited. It's not for me to judge this particular choice, as the fundamental truths of creation and life are still rather up for debate. However, to the extent that they reshape thisreligious/cultural inheritance into something more just and more equitable, it's a good thing.

-app

[Phillip McCleod]

51. +1 ..

..

1 *BAZILLION* that is..

[SunSeeker]

62. Wish I could kick and rec a reply.

[CrawlingChaos]

65. No, YOUR post is ignorant bullshit

There is a level of anti-Muslim hatred in this country (and much of the Western world) that is truly terrifying and goes way, WAY beyond legitimate and fair criticism of religion. It results in oppression, harassment, hate crimes and and the perpetuation of endless wars.

Presumably you can understand the importance of opposing antisemitism; that terrible things happen when unchecked hate toward a particular group is encouraged to fester? This should not be hard to understand! Do you really want to give a helping hand to Pamela Geller's agenda? If that doesn't bother you, you should be ashamed of yourself.

[Fumesucker]

66. Meh, atheists are more hated in the US than Muslims

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/religion/story/2011-12-10/religion-atheism/51777612/1

A new study finds that atheists are among society's most distrusted group, comparable even to rapists in certain circumstances.

[redqueen]

73. No, he's not spewing total bullshit...

he has a point of course. But what he apparently didn't get (and I expected it would happen) was that I'm not talking about reasoned criticism of Islam or Muslim society. So in that way, his post is definitely ignorant. But he does have a point, in that we do need reasoned criticism.

I'm talking about hateful bullshit, and the kind of over-the-top, foaming-at-the-mouth kind of ranting in his post is a good example of it.

[CrawlingChaos]

88. the poster has created a construct where Muslims can't win

Their mere existence damns them to eternal scorn, and they are each responsible for every heinous act committed by any one of the billions of Muslim people in the world. All good is ignored. I guarantee you this poster has a distorted, nuance-free understanding of Islam that is entirely informed by propaganda (that they don't recognize as propaganda). It is dehumanizing to Muslims, and it helps the warmongers.

Of course, women's rights and LGBT rights are issues of critical importance, but they can and should be addressed without heaping undeserved hatred upon innocent people just because of their Muslim identity. I don't know about the poster above specifically, but you can't help but notice the epidemic of oh-so-angry people who have nothing to say about women's rights or LGBT issues unless there's an anti-Muslim angle to the story. It's a very selective outrage.

Excellent OP, btw.

[Bluenorthwest]

74. All religions are just excuses for the behavior of the religious toward others.

The religion is just an excuse, all religions are just excuses for mistreatment of 'the other'. It is the hate for gay people that I am not going to be accepting no matter what deity you hang that dogma on.
Religion is the worship of one's own ego in the guise of the divine, religion itself is the ultimate heresy, it is the tool by which humans appropriate the divine as a device of their own agendas.

[Major Nikon]

86. The problem with organized religion is that it's inherently corruptible

If I pretend to speak for the devine, there is no higher power that a dissenting believer can appeal.

[usrbs]

70. Agree with you 1000% (eom)

[zentrum]

37. We're in desperate need...

...of more stories and images like this.

Thanks

[Honeycombe8]

50. It's these sorts of things that will help change people's hearts about Muslims.

But what's with the red hats? Do they mean something?

[idwiyo]

53. That's a good first step. Good for them. Step number two would be Universal Human Rights.

I will appreciate it very much if you can point me to Reformed Islam group that advocates for Universal Human Rights. You know, not just under Islamic interpretation of who gets what.


I'd like to also know where these guys stand on LGBTQ issue.

[Bluenorthwest]

67. I would also like that information and I invite the OP to PM that information to me.

Universal, including LGBTQ equality. I highly doubt the OP will offer any such information.

[idwiyo]

72. Absolutely, because there is no Universal without LGBTQ equality.

[DesertFlower]

56. K&R. i'd like to see more of this.

i have a facebook friend in egypt who does not practice islam. his parents do. his mom wears a head scarf and mostly black clothes which are very warm especially in the summer there. he hates the way islam treats women.

[basspro1o1]

59. Faith,Religion,or God does Not make you a Good Person -->YOU DO!

I Do Not Believe in any God , if I did it would be the Sun God. I do however believe in people,I put my faith in people something far harder than any religion. I feel if a person needs a faith of some sort to help them have Compassion, Empathy and a Will to be Good and to do Good,then it's fine, but that same person must understand there are those that need no faith to have those very things including Morals. What I have a hard time understanding is why people are so fast to teach themselves and others to not praise themselves and each other?And ALL praise is given over to a GOD. Every action has a consequence; and You and only You Own it. If that action is good praise yourself for it, pat yourself on the back it's ok, if it was bad well You own that also. If you are of faith or a religion and you are damming another's you are in essence damming your own faith as Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all have a core religious text intertwined into each other. What makes Fundamentalism/ Radicalism/Extremism in ANY Religion. 1. To be Uncompromising in their beliefs 2. Have a Literal interpretation of the Bible or Text & Writings of Your Faith! ALL Religions have them, my twitter is filled with bad things done mostly by Christians in the name of GOD, they tend to hurt less people at any one given time but non the less they do hurt many. A true Test of a Faith is to believe in a Faith of people,their abilities,strengths,weaknesses. There are Good People both of Faith and of Non Faith it's YOU that makes YOU be that way. If you believe in Religion or A God of some sort you are the 1st one I'm NOT going to Trust, because you don't think for yourself,believe in yourself and your own actions...... “Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ~ Voltaire ......" Waste no more time arguing about what a Good Man should be. Be one.” ~ Marcus Aurelius

[robinlynne]

60. nice. k&r

[thesquanderer]

61. To be an a**hole is a God given right.

Oh, maybe that's one more reason to be an atheist.

[blkmusclmachine]

63. .

.

[99Forever]

69. Why wouldn't I beleive it?

Why do you assume that this would surprise people?

Ridiculous.

[redqueen]

76. What's "ridiculous" is the fact that you can't seem to figure out who wrote the title.

Hint: It wasn't me.

[99Forever]

80. I know who CHOSE to post though...

... don't I?

Ridiculous.

[redqueen]

82. lol

[glowing]

71. Any women at the protest? LOL

[randome]

81. Let's break it down further ala Amina Tyler.

Who are these MEN to say that women's rights should be respected and expanded? Isn't that just part of the patriarchy? I mean, they should mind their own business, right? Stop trying to tell women how they should be treated.

And let's talk about their 'dress', too. Those fez thingies only perpetuate the social and cultural conditioning of the subservience of women.

It's all such a farce.

[redqueen]

84. You need to look up the definition of "patriarchy". nt

[dotymed]

75. I guess I too could be considered an "agnostic Episcopalian."

I am American (white Caucasian). I am a "truther."
9-11 sure was a great excuse to revoke our freedoms. Coincidence?
I do not like Alex Jones.....just jaded I guess.

[Ter]

77. While woman's right is still an issue here...

...There are better places to protest this. How about Saudi Arabia or Iran? Maybe some Sudan and Kuwait as well.

[randome]

78. Why would it be hard to believe? Maybe because it's so rare.

And it shouldn't be.

[booley]

79. Humanity: individual results may vary

Maybe it's not any particular religion per se that's the problem.

maybe religion is just used as the excuse?

[wet.hen88]

83. I believe it...

I believe it...have known and worked with some who feel the same way...and the broad brush of many media is wrong, but who said the media always right. More rallys like this one need to happen and be publicized...and they need to police their own, tho they are afraid. Send these young men to Yemen and they would be killed. As always, the poor and uneducated will be stirred to jihad...ddon't know what happened! with the Boston bombers...who were supposedly educated.

[tabasco]

85. The Half-A-Dozen Man March

Well, it's a start.

These men deserve praise.

[smirkymonkey]

87. K&R, Thank You!