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ProgressiveProfessor

(22,144 posts)
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 11:23 AM Apr 2013

Bloomberg to ban e-bikes

NEW YORK (CBSNewYork) - Mayor Michael Bloomberg is expected to sign a new law banning the e-bike, which some say is fast and dangerous.

More here: http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/04/26/mayor-bloomberg-expected-to-sign-e-bike-ban/
------------------
More 1%er hubris from the Emperor of NYC. There were other alternatives than to unilaterally ban electric assisted bicycles.

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Bloomberg to ban e-bikes (Original Post) ProgressiveProfessor Apr 2013 OP
Like what alternatives? randome Apr 2013 #1
Law enforcement ProgressiveProfessor Apr 2013 #4
Restricting e-bikes to parks, then? That might be an alternative. randome Apr 2013 #9
lol octothorpe Apr 2013 #30
How about a gyroscopically-stabilized electric unicycle? krispos42 Apr 2013 #36
But I bet an enterprising engineer could MAKE those kind of bowling pins! randome Apr 2013 #46
Allow something that causes far less pollution or danger than cars? Fumesucker Apr 2013 #6
I was under the impression that they're not legal in NYC in the first place Fumesucker Apr 2013 #2
E-bikes are pretty heavy Robb Apr 2013 #5
They can be not much heavier than an ordinary bike Fumesucker Apr 2013 #13
The battery and motor add 20 to 40 pounds to the bike. hack89 Apr 2013 #42
Odd, my battery weighs six pounds and my motor weighs eight Fumesucker Apr 2013 #51
Why do you have to make it personal? hack89 Apr 2013 #60
Here is an electric mountain bike that weighs 68 pounds hack89 Apr 2013 #61
Have you ever actually *seen* an ebike in the flesh? Fumesucker Apr 2013 #65
So there is a wide range of bikes with a wide range of weights. hack89 Apr 2013 #68
Now you know how non-gunners feel when you get all picky about gun terminology Fumesucker Apr 2013 #71
They don't have to be heavy but some are heavy hack89 Apr 2013 #72
The point being that you were arguing about something of which you have *zero* knowledge Fumesucker Apr 2013 #75
ok. nt hack89 Apr 2013 #83
Pretty much any new vehicle will get immediately banned these days Posteritatis Apr 2013 #8
Just a renamed and redesigned moped! whistler162 Apr 2013 #91
I think it's a matter of quanitity krispos42 Apr 2013 #40
Federal law defines ebikes under 750 watts (one horsepower) as "bicycles" Fumesucker Apr 2013 #43
Ah, okay. krispos42 Apr 2013 #95
More fake outrage...eom Kolesar Apr 2013 #3
How dare the mayor sign a law passed by city council!!! Robb Apr 2013 #7
See this ProgressiveProfessor Apr 2013 #11
I'd say you certainly got the last word in there! randome Apr 2013 #14
Classic authoritarianism from Bloomberg. backscatter712 Apr 2013 #10
City council passed the legislation because of citizen complaints. Ikonoklast Apr 2013 #50
Post removed Post removed Apr 2013 #12
I'd say you certainly got the last word in there! Kolesar Apr 2013 #15
Posts that prove the Perfesser wrong usually don't get any replies. baldguy Apr 2013 #16
Ha! We can both be right, right? randome Apr 2013 #19
Bloomberg justifies anything he wants, often with astroturf ProgressiveProfessor Apr 2013 #20
So now you're doubling down with a conspiracy theory. geek tragedy Apr 2013 #28
Saying that Bloomberg rules by hubirs is not a conspiracy theory ProgressiveProfessor Apr 2013 #31
So he manufactured the complaints of ebikes? nt geek tragedy Apr 2013 #54
And has done little to crackdown on the manics while ProgressiveProfessor Apr 2013 #56
This message was self-deleted by its author ProgressiveProfessor Apr 2013 #59
That's the most interesting thing. People who don't live in NYC, and hate everything it stands for DanTex Apr 2013 #53
Then your problem should be with the state of New York, not Bloomberg. baldguy Apr 2013 #35
Bloomie is a 1%er whose hubris knows no bounds ProgressiveProfessor Apr 2013 #55
Yeah, there are a lot of people who don't like Bloomberg. They're mostly Republicans. baldguy Apr 2013 #63
I don't think any supporter of OWS or related efforts think much of him either ProgressiveProfessor Apr 2013 #64
Yeah, right. You "support" gun control. But you attack every Democrat who tris to pass it. baldguy Apr 2013 #70
Far from it. ProgressiveProfessor Apr 2013 #88
Thank you for proving your dishonesty. baldguy Apr 2013 #93
So if someone doesn't support your exact agenda they don't support "REAL gun control" ProgressiveProfessor Apr 2013 #101
Electric bicycles are NOT 'currently unregulated in the state of New York'. PoliticAverse Apr 2013 #57
NYS law treats electric powered bicycles as bicycles. Those regs only apply to gas powered bicycles. baldguy Apr 2013 #69
Those rules apply to manufacturers, not individuals Fumesucker Apr 2013 #82
Why not enforce traffic laws Cal Carpenter Apr 2013 #17
And when they start doing that you'll whine about the fascist NYC cops harrassing cyclists. baldguy Apr 2013 #37
You have strange and inaccurate predictive skills n/t Cal Carpenter Apr 2013 #48
I don't know. I would imagine he is spot on. MattBaggins Apr 2013 #67
Apparently it's not the bikes themselves Courtesy Flush Apr 2013 #18
Sounds like a typical NY cabbie Fumesucker Apr 2013 #22
How many motorists or pedestrians are on sidewalks going 30 mph? geek tragedy Apr 2013 #24
What? You can't walk 30mph? HappyMe Apr 2013 #34
30 mph ebikes are rare and almost always custom made, usually by the owner Fumesucker Apr 2013 #39
Couldn't we say that about any law though? octothorpe Apr 2013 #38
Bikes shouldn't be on the sidewalk Travis_0004 Apr 2013 #44
Maybe because the messenger services use them? randome Apr 2013 #47
They're parked on sidewalks. nt geek tragedy Apr 2013 #49
Bookmarked so I can come back and read the testimonial about nearly getting killed by an ebike... JVS Apr 2013 #21
Not the biggest Bloomberg fan, but it's hardly the act of an emperor geek tragedy Apr 2013 #23
When was the last time Bloomie wanted something and did not get it? ProgressiveProfessor Apr 2013 #26
Which borough do you live in? nt geek tragedy Apr 2013 #29
I used to live in NYC ProgressiveProfessor Apr 2013 #32
There is a simple solution.. sendero Apr 2013 #25
There are some Federal laws that NY needs to align with ProgressiveProfessor Apr 2013 #27
Which specifically supersedes State law... PoliticAverse Apr 2013 #58
I have an ebike I built myself Fumesucker Apr 2013 #33
I understand... sendero Apr 2013 #84
There is a threshold, one horsepower or 750 watts for electric Fumesucker Apr 2013 #86
Don't they have traffic laws? Life Long Dem Apr 2013 #41
He's at it again, isn't he? smirkymonkey Apr 2013 #45
That's one, Newest Reality Apr 2013 #52
Hmmm.... sarisataka Apr 2013 #62
From the link pokerfan Apr 2013 #66
It's nice that the gunners have found a non-gun topic they can respond to finally. bluedigger Apr 2013 #73
Actually it looks like the other way around Union Scribe Apr 2013 #74
Ouch. N/T beevul Apr 2013 #80
*Rolls eyes at Bloomberg, again* Jamastiene Apr 2013 #76
It doesn't make sense to me Yo_Mama Apr 2013 #77
Actually, they sound like a good idea if driven properly. nt Deep13 Apr 2013 #78
Fast and dangerous like say... a motorcycle? bunnies Apr 2013 #79
Not even close to a motorcycle Fumesucker Apr 2013 #81
Really? He feels the need to ban something like that? bunnies Apr 2013 #85
Did you know he also funds gun safety groups? Robb Apr 2013 #87
Does that makeup for all his other crap? ProgressiveProfessor Apr 2013 #89
One of them is Mayors Against Illegal Guns. Robb Apr 2013 #90
Have you looked at their felony rate? ProgressiveProfessor Apr 2013 #97
Bloomberg also donated a TON of money to Planned Parenthood. Robb Apr 2013 #98
You can't pink/green/blue or white wash the 1% stench and hubris from Bloomie ProgressiveProfessor Apr 2013 #100
Donated more than $1 billion to Johns Hopkins. With a "b", "billion." Robb Apr 2013 #102
He is still a 1%er doing 1%er things ProgressiveProfessor Apr 2013 #103
Plus he's really pro gun control. Robb Apr 2013 #104
Bloomie is still a rabid 1%er with even more hubris than money ProgressiveProfessor Apr 2013 #105
E-bike? That seems the same thing as an electric motorbike. Which is a vehicle... Honeycombe8 Apr 2013 #92
Bloomberg says they're fast and dangerous -- but let me tell you something . . . markpkessinger Apr 2013 #94
In my interactions with them in the past I saw them coming ProgressiveProfessor Apr 2013 #99
They're ALREADY illegal on public streets, for good reason. This bill just makes it easier NYC Liberal Apr 2013 #96
What is the "good reason" ebikes are illegal? Fumesucker Apr 2013 #106

ProgressiveProfessor

(22,144 posts)
4. Law enforcement
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 11:28 AM
Apr 2013

Many older people cannot ride more than around the park on a bike under their own power. Ebikes (and they are not all the behemoth pictured) provide alternatives for them.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
6. Allow something that causes far less pollution or danger than cars?
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 11:30 AM
Apr 2013

I have an ebike myself, it gets a calculated 1686 mpge according to the EPA formula for electric vehicles.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
2. I was under the impression that they're not legal in NYC in the first place
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 11:27 AM
Apr 2013

Also I have a hard time understanding how a bicycle, electric or otherwise, is more dangerous than an automobile.

Robb

(39,665 posts)
5. E-bikes are pretty heavy
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 11:29 AM
Apr 2013

and fit on the sidewalk and through narrow openings. I can see a city being unprepared for them if it already has poor bike-centric infrastructure.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
13. They can be not much heavier than an ordinary bike
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 11:35 AM
Apr 2013

Indeed, they can be lighter than regular bikes, depending on what you start with.

For instance, where is the weight on this bike?

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
51. Odd, my battery weighs six pounds and my motor weighs eight
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 12:49 PM
Apr 2013

Throttle and controller weigh around a pound together.

That gives me around 25 mile range at about 18 mph on the flat.

You wouldn't be impressed if someone who had never even seen a gun were to look up some random website about guns and used that to support an argument here, you aren't impressing me.








hack89

(39,171 posts)
60. Why do you have to make it personal?
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 01:23 PM
Apr 2013

you asked a questioned, I was curious, and I shared what I found with you.

That's it. It was not an attack on you.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
65. Have you ever actually *seen* an ebike in the flesh?
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 02:20 PM
Apr 2013

Have you ever ridden one?

Why are you presuming to tell someone who builds and rides the damn things about ebikes?

I've been posting on DU about ebikes for years, here's a post of mine from 2009 about a 45 lb ebike with extremely high performance, could easily be ten pounds lighter with less performance, ie 35 lbs.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6699545

Bikes are unlike most consumer products in that lighter is more expensive, commercial ebikes almost always start with a bike that would be overweight even without the electric power and then add the cheapest Chinese electric junk they can find (heavy in other words).

This aluminum framed Mongoose Blackcomb pedal only mountain bike weighs 46 lbs.. No batteries, no motor.



hack89

(39,171 posts)
68. So there is a wide range of bikes with a wide range of weights.
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 02:35 PM
Apr 2013

is this something to fight over?

I never said I supported the ban. I never said I don't support ebikes. I merely answered a fucking question and for some reason you have decided to take it personally.

Bye.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
71. Now you know how non-gunners feel when you get all picky about gun terminology
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 02:45 PM
Apr 2013

I know that terminology pretty well myself but I watch the gun enthusiasts get all over people for saying ignorant things.

The way this conversation started was Robb talking about how heavy ebikes were, I demurred and said they did not have to be that heavy and then you disagreed and posted a bunch of crap ebikes and certainly implied that was all there was.


hack89

(39,171 posts)
72. They don't have to be heavy but some are heavy
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 02:49 PM
Apr 2013

so Robb was right in that regard.

When I start advocating to ban ebikes is when you can bring up guns.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
75. The point being that you were arguing about something of which you have *zero* knowledge
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 05:01 PM
Apr 2013

You've never even seen one in the flesh or you would have said so.



Posteritatis

(18,807 posts)
8. Pretty much any new vehicle will get immediately banned these days
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 11:31 AM
Apr 2013

Anything new like that these days gets swamped under by people who decided that if the possibility of someone getting injured in some way involving them is less than 0.000 percent, they're Too Dangerous And Must Be Forbidden.

Think Segways; within days of their initial announcement cities were talking about forbidding them, and there was a huge craze of passing laws banning them the moment someone somewhere first managed to fall off of one.

If bicycles were only invented last week in this society, they'd be illegal by the end of May.

krispos42

(49,445 posts)
40. I think it's a matter of quanitity
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 12:20 PM
Apr 2013

The ebikes mean that anybody, even those that aren't physically fit enough to ride a regular bike at fast speeds for long distances, can now ride along at fast speeds for long distances. I'm one of them, for example. I don't ride, so anything more than a few minutes makes my muscles ache because I'm not used to doing that strenuous motion.

So you'd have both the human-powered bikes, plus the addition of electric bikes. Now, this might ease vehicular traffic a little, but you also know that people on bike tend to play by a different set of traffic laws, regardless of theory. So you'd probably get an increase in accidents involving bikes of all sorts.

Now, in bike versus car, car wins. In bike versus pedestrian, bike wins. So you'd have more injuries, especially the expensive and devastating skull, neck and spine kind.



Technically, they're motor vehicles, I would think.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
43. Federal law defines ebikes under 750 watts (one horsepower) as "bicycles"
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 12:29 PM
Apr 2013

Manufacturers can't legally sell an ebike over 750 watts in the US and very few of the available ebikes actually are that powerful, the great majority are cheap Chinese junk that are under 500 watts and have a hard time going over 20 mph. Anything over 750 watts is considered a motorcycle for licensing purposes.

The batteries alone for a more than 750 watt bike are going to cost more than most of the "ebikes" sold out there.

Ikonoklast

(23,973 posts)
50. City council passed the legislation because of citizen complaints.
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 12:45 PM
Apr 2013

Bloomberg signed it. He isn't a dictator ruling by fiat.

These are unregistered motor vehicles, and as operators of a motorized vehicle they needed to abide by traffic laws.

They weren't doing so, and they'll suffer the consequences.

Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Original post)

ProgressiveProfessor

(22,144 posts)
20. Bloomberg justifies anything he wants, often with astroturf
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 11:53 AM
Apr 2013

You are supporting the actions of one of the most high handed 1%ers out there and his local devout worshiper. You support his food bans as well?

It is possible to regulate e-bikes and more importantly crackdown on the worst of the delivery crowd who are the real source of the problem. Instead Bloomie's answer is to ban a clean tech with some good promise.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
28. So now you're doubling down with a conspiracy theory.
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 12:01 PM
Apr 2013

I like how people who don't live in New York lecture us on how people here really feel.

P.S. this is closing a loophole

http://www.streetsblog.org/2013/04/10/why-are-electric-bikes-illegal-anyway/

ProgressiveProfessor

(22,144 posts)
31. Saying that Bloomberg rules by hubirs is not a conspiracy theory
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 12:05 PM
Apr 2013

I have lived in NYC...and dropped a few idiot messengers while there.

I am aware of the mismatch in classification. NY needs to follow the Federal lead.

Response to geek tragedy (Reply #54)

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
53. That's the most interesting thing. People who don't live in NYC, and hate everything it stands for
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 12:58 PM
Apr 2013

always seem to complain the loudest about what the elected government there does.

 

baldguy

(36,649 posts)
35. Then your problem should be with the state of New York, not Bloomberg.
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 12:13 PM
Apr 2013

The city needs to work withing state law, which only allows municipalities to say where certain vehicles go. To regulate them as you suggest, the state would need create a new class of vehicle.

You need to stop whining about Bloomberg just because he's on the right side of the gun control issue. He's using his wealth to help create a better city, country & world. That's what the wealthy are supposed to do!

ProgressiveProfessor

(22,144 posts)
55. Bloomie is a 1%er whose hubris knows no bounds
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 01:08 PM
Apr 2013

I am far from the only person here who dislikes him and his sycophants immensely.

 

baldguy

(36,649 posts)
63. Yeah, there are a lot of people who don't like Bloomberg. They're mostly Republicans.
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 01:53 PM
Apr 2013

Which explains your issues with him.

The irrational RW hatred of Michael Bloomberg reminds of nothing as much as the irrational RW hatred of Jane Fonda. They remind everyone that she's "Hanoi Jane", and treat every sound she makes as utterances directly from Satan, and they boycott the local multiplex because it made the mistake of showing a Jane Fonda movie once 30 yrs ago.

Well, you can rest assured that this time next year, NYC will have a new Mayor. Maybe your wish will come true and it'll be another Ghouliani-wannabe GOPer.

But Bloomberg's money isn't going away, so the push to enact real gun control that the majority of Americans want isn't going away either.

ProgressiveProfessor

(22,144 posts)
64. I don't think any supporter of OWS or related efforts think much of him either
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 02:07 PM
Apr 2013

Nor are they repukes.

Bloomie is indeed repuke 1%er, who knows what is best for all the rest of us. That you are supporting him, because he is on your side on this issue, speaks volumes. You might want to see what he has said about BSL...

I agree with more gun control in a large number of areas, including UBCs, training, storage, and others. I will support those as being meaningful and effective. DiFi's AWB not so much.

 

baldguy

(36,649 posts)
70. Yeah, right. You "support" gun control. But you attack every Democrat who tris to pass it.
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 02:42 PM
Apr 2013

That's the best joke I've heard all day.

ProgressiveProfessor

(22,144 posts)
88. Far from it.
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 08:25 PM
Apr 2013

I support all of the President's previously announced executive actions, including checks on all transfers, better data collection, and increased enforcement of existing laws (though Biden has disclaimed the latter). I support some things he should have included, like safe storage requirements.

NICS checks or equivalent on all transactions, even private party transaction, inheritance, and gifts. My approach would be a Federal FOID that you would automatically get at 18yo so they are not a "firearms ownership licenses", a common objection to that approach. The check is then if the FOID is still valid for the sale to proceed. This is easy from the IT perspective. Note the NRA rejects the FOID approach.

In terms of hardware, I think that handgun magazines should be limited to what fits in the grip. For those rare handgun designs with the magazine elsewhere, the historic magazines (for old designs) and 10 otherwise sound reasonable. I also support mandatory training for owners, mandatory safety training for children and waiting periods with some reservations. Require that new designs not support magazines that extend beneath the handle (BATF already has authority to force design changes). This is readily demonstrated by the Ruger line of .22LR handguns and the Astra 400/600. Grandfather or buy back at retail price non-conforming magazines. Note that the NRA has rejected magazine limitations

I do not support cosmetic feature bans, bans of semi autos, and the like. I could support future manufacturing bans of magazines larger than those supplied by the manufacturer or generally available in the case of generic magazines. That should take care of the 100 round magazines and other useless bling that gets things spun up.

I do not support the reopening of the roster to allow additional machine guns in private hands. I think suppressors should be handled as they are in Europe...safety equipment.

All firearms must be secured when not in use, being cleaned, transported, etc. While California got stupid on parts of this, its the right thing to do. Some will miss their old time glass front display cases or wall rack, but proper security is a must. Would consider an exemption for non-functional devices. I believe the NRA has fought mandatory safes. It adds costs to gun ownership, but this has to be done.

Mandatory reporting of theft or loss. This is a no brainer. A number of pro gun people say they will report theirs missing to avoid registration etc. That should be felony country.

Enforce the existing Federal laws about false paperwork by purchasers. Bloomie and I even agree on this one

Somethings I have mixed feelings about/no definitive solution

Mandatory owner training. It is not required to exercise any other enumerated right, but I have seen some very scary stuff over the years. Not sure what the standards should be, but I come down on the side of some training being required. The NRA has fought this.

Mandatory safety training for children. Enough for them to overcome their natural curiosity and get an adult should they find an unsecured firearm. While some would find that more offensive than the fundies find sex ed, until things change, its basic safety and needs to be done. Not sure the best way, but it is clearly called for. NRA has not taken a stand on this but does offer such classes. I don't see it as a talking point.

Waiting periods. For someone who already has firearms, not sure what purpose they serve. For first time owners I support them. Overall I think they are a good idea. Not sure what the right time length should be. 1 week seems good. There are reports that Lanza tried to buy a rifle but was stopped by the mandated waiting period (if the media reports are to be believed). NRA opposes waiting periods

Better mental health reporting and supervision. Seen a number of posts on that here. Clearly something is called for, but how to do it is not clear. Loughner never should have been allowed to have a gun. Also we cannot and should not demonize the mentally ill and the people who serve them as some have done. The NRA has fought additional reporting of some types of problems yet is trying to blame the "crazies". Go figure

===============================================
That's my current working list. Those will address some of the concerns. Clearly it is not enough based on your prior posts, but its a fair start.

 

baldguy

(36,649 posts)
93. Thank you for proving your dishonesty.
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 09:12 PM
Apr 2013

With your reply you prove that this thread that you created has nothing to do with e-bikes, and everything to do with your irrational animosity for Michael Bloomberg - one of the most powerful & effective voices for real gun control.

And the fact that you're being so magnanimous to offer "support" for some of the stuff we already have, are critical of others, and just ignore some things which are absolutely necessary (like national licensing & registration, or keeping the ban on the insanity of CCW reciprocity in place), and the fact that your still find it necessary to attack anyone & everyone who actually supports REAL gun control, that so-called "support" is highly suspect.

ProgressiveProfessor

(22,144 posts)
101. So if someone doesn't support your exact agenda they don't support "REAL gun control"
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 10:48 PM
Apr 2013

I started this thread because I think e-bikes are an important tech that can and will lead to fewer cars. Had it been mayor of LA or DC or Fargo, I would have said the same thing.

Bloomie is currently buying himself demigod status with some over his gun control moves. You still might want to consider all of his positions including one of your pet rocks, BSL for dogs. While he may be on your side on one issue, the majority of his positions are repugnant to most of us. If you want to sell your integrity that cheaply go ahead.

What I support is not currently national policy nor is it policy in most states. Its a moderate compared to some, but more importantly they are effective things that can be agreed to and be implemented.

Your confiscatory approach and incessant personal attacks are not going to help in any way in any venue. Keep them up and you will keep losing on the gun control front and hurt the party in the long run. Take smaller, more effective steps and things could get better.

PoliticAverse

(26,366 posts)
57. Electric bicycles are NOT 'currently unregulated in the state of New York'.
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 01:10 PM
Apr 2013
http://www.dmv.ny.gov/recreation.htm#motor
Motorized Scooters, Mini-Bikes, Dirt Bikes, Go-Karts, Motor Assisted Bicycles

You cannot register any of the motorized devices from the list below in NYS. You cannot operate these devices on sidewalks, public streets or highways in NYS. These devices are motor vehicles, but they do not have the correct equipment or design for operation on roadways.

...

Motor-assisted Bicycle - a bicycle to which a small motor is attached. A motor-assisted bicycle does not qualify for a registration as a motorcycle, moped or ATV and does not have the same equipment.

These devices are not allowed on any street, highway, parking lot, sidewalk or other area that allows public motor vehicle traffic. You are subject to arrest if you operate one of these motorized vehicles and do not have a registration, driver license, inspection, insurance or correct equipment. The DMV can not provide any information about operation of these devices on private property. Contact the local authorities and property owners.


The issues is for 'low-speed electric bicycles' this conflicts with Federal Law which supersedes State Law:

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-107publ319/html/PLAW-107publ319.htm



``(b) For the purpose of this section, the term `low-speed electric
bicycle' means a two- or three-wheeled vehicle with fully operable
pedals and an electric motor of less than 750 watts (1 h.p.), whose
maximum speed on a paved level surface, when powered solely by such a
motor while ridden by an operator who weighs 170 pounds, is less than 20
mph.

...

(d) This section shall supersede any State law or requirement with
respect to low-speed electric bicycles to the extent that such State law
or requirement is more stringent than the Federal law or requirements
referred to in subsection (a).''.




 

baldguy

(36,649 posts)
69. NYS law treats electric powered bicycles as bicycles. Those regs only apply to gas powered bicycles.
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 02:39 PM
Apr 2013

And another issues is that as long as the motor isn't actually powering the bike, it's not a powered bicycle. It's a grey area that the NY Legislature hasn't got around to fixing. (The Assembly & Senate have both passed the required bills regulating these things, but the standard political dysfunctional stupidity has prevented getting the conference bill together to get it signed by the Governor.)

That's the problem the NY City Council is trying to address. It's got nothing to do with the RW hysteria that the Mayor wants to be a dictator; it's the govt of NYC trying to address an issue that is adversely affecting residents, which Albany has been dragging it's feet on.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
82. Those rules apply to manufacturers, not individuals
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 05:36 PM
Apr 2013

That means an ebike that meets those specifications can be legally sold in the US as a bicycle and not a motorized vehicle. The states are free to set their own rules as to what is allowed on the street and the laws vary widely in that respect.


Cal Carpenter

(4,959 posts)
17. Why not enforce traffic laws
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 11:49 AM
Apr 2013

and bust people who drive these bikes unsafely or illegally (too fast, against traffic, etc)?

I suppose his army of cops is too busy stop-and-frisking innocent black men.

Fuck Bloomberg.

Courtesy Flush

(4,558 posts)
18. Apparently it's not the bikes themselves
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 11:51 AM
Apr 2013

It's poor law enforcement.

“And residents have complained that when they deliver food, they take off, they go high speeds, they go against traffic, they go on sidewalks,” Councilman James Vacca said. “They’re a danger to pedestrians.


The same could be said for any motorist -- or even pedestrian -- who acts recklessly.
 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
24. How many motorists or pedestrians are on sidewalks going 30 mph?
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 11:57 AM
Apr 2013

Also, good luck hiring the 500k police it would take to monitor the delivery guys on their bikes.

HappyMe

(20,277 posts)
34. What? You can't walk 30mph?
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 12:09 PM
Apr 2013

Sidewalks in NYC are crowded enough without adding bikes that can do 30+ mph.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
39. 30 mph ebikes are rare and almost always custom made, usually by the owner
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 12:18 PM
Apr 2013

Production ebikes that you can buy are really no faster than a strong rider can pedal and often not even that fast.

I'm sixtysomething and can reach 25 + mph in spurts on the level on a decent pedal bike, I just don't have the aerobic fitness any more to maintain that speed for more than a minute or so.

Bikes, pedal or electric aren't supposed to be on sidewalks in the first place, a bike is a vehicle and is subject to the same laws as a car while in operation.

octothorpe

(962 posts)
38. Couldn't we say that about any law though?
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 12:16 PM
Apr 2013

"Why have speed limits at all? Good luck hiring all the police needed to monitor millions of cars on the road"

Most of us try not to speed (usually, I think), because want to be safe and because we don't want to risk the chance that a police officer will see us. Seems like the principle would be the same here, no? Full on banning seems silly for such a useful vehicle. Make people take a class or test before they could use them too.

 

Travis_0004

(5,417 posts)
44. Bikes shouldn't be on the sidewalk
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 12:30 PM
Apr 2013

Whats the problem with an electric bike doing 30 mph on the roadway? I ride a bike, and I hit 30 miles per hour just about every trip out. As long as they are on the roads, I see nothing wrong with it.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
47. Maybe because the messenger services use them?
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 12:34 PM
Apr 2013

Some destinations are set back from the street so the impetus is to get as close to the destination as possible before unmounting.

And finding a parking spot on the street must be tough, I'd think.

JVS

(61,935 posts)
21. Bookmarked so I can come back and read the testimonial about nearly getting killed by an ebike...
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 11:55 AM
Apr 2013

and how smart and wise Bloomberg is to do this.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
23. Not the biggest Bloomberg fan, but it's hardly the act of an emperor
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 11:56 AM
Apr 2013

to sign a bill passed by the city's legislature.

Also, libertarianism works a lot better in places like Montana than it does in NYC.

ProgressiveProfessor

(22,144 posts)
26. When was the last time Bloomie wanted something and did not get it?
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 11:58 AM
Apr 2013


Is expecting Bloomie's private army to actually enforce laws that impact public safety too much to ask?

sendero

(28,552 posts)
25. There is a simple solution..
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 11:57 AM
Apr 2013

.... to this. If you want to drive one of these you need a license, same one you'd need to drive a moped or motorcycle.

PoliticAverse

(26,366 posts)
58. Which specifically supersedes State law...
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 01:12 PM
Apr 2013
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-107publ319/html/PLAW-107publ319.htm


``low-speed electric bicycles

``Sec. 38. <<NOTE: 15 USC 2085.>> (a) Notwithstanding any other
provision of law, low-speed electric bicycles are consumer products
within the meaning of section 3(a)(1) and shall be subject to the
Commission regulations published at section 1500.18(a)(12) and part 1512
of title 16, Code of Federal Regulations.

``(b) For the purpose of this section, the term `low-speed electric
bicycle' means a two- or three-wheeled vehicle with fully operable
pedals and an electric motor of less than 750 watts (1 h.p.), whose
maximum speed on a paved level surface, when powered solely by such a
motor while ridden by an operator who weighs 170 pounds, is less than 20
mph.
``(c) To further protect the safety of consumers who ride low-speed
electric bicycles, the Commission may promulgate new or amended
requirements applicable to such vehicles as necessary and appropriate.
``(d) This section shall supersede any State law or requirement with
respect to low-speed electric bicycles to the extent that such State law
or requirement is more stringent than the Federal law or requirements
referred to in subsection (a).''.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
33. I have an ebike I built myself
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 12:06 PM
Apr 2013

Peak speed is actually *slower* than when it was pedal only, the motor gives enough drag going down steep hills that it slows the bike down from what it would do otherwise.

What the electric power really helps with is keeping from slowing to a dead crawl up steep hills, at sixty something I don't have the energy I used to.

This is my setup in its current configuration.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/11282343


sendero

(28,552 posts)
84. I understand...
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 05:58 PM
Apr 2013

.. but there are several levels of engines for these things. The first ones were made with 30cc weed eater / chainsaw engines. Those won't go very fast. But they are making some bigger ones now.

I suppose there could be an engine threshold for licensing.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
86. There is a threshold, one horsepower or 750 watts for electric
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 06:34 PM
Apr 2013

50cc for gas.

Varies some from state to state but that's pretty common, some states like NY don't allow any unlicensed motorized vehicles.

Even in Europe where they are much more restrictive 200 or 250 watt ebikes are license free and don't have to be registered.

250 watts is about double what an average out of shape rider can do for a longish period, say half an hour but human power limits are kind of strange, that same out of shape person could probably do close to 750 watts or one horsepower for a few moments to maybe a minute or two. It takes roughly 400 watts to go 20 mph on the straight and level on a decent upright bike but the power demands go up sharply with speed after that.

 

Life Long Dem

(8,582 posts)
41. Don't they have traffic laws?
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 12:23 PM
Apr 2013

Like no riding bikes on the sidewalk and no speeding, and obeying the rules of the road as any motorist would do. Instead of banning them because they make no noise, how about having them make noise?

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
45. He's at it again, isn't he?
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 12:30 PM
Apr 2013

I am kind of glad I have moved from there. He just won't stop trying to manage people's lives.

Newest Reality

(12,712 posts)
52. That's one,
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 12:51 PM
Apr 2013

non-stop sack of Emperor you have there.

Autocratic, oligarchical, plutocratic meritocra-al-a-docious!

It has to be nice to be able to get whatever you want.

sarisataka

(18,220 posts)
62. Hmmm....
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 01:33 PM
Apr 2013

an affordable, eco-friendly means of transportation. Similar to what NY bike messengers, stereotyped as modern kamikaze, have used for years.

Residents complained; do human powered bike get complaints...
It might encourage people to travel on their own rather than taxi or public transit...

license it...no
enforce traffic laws... oops, didn't mean to say that
regulate their speed, only allow models with a limited top speed... no, not good enough

*BAN IT!!*

pokerfan

(27,677 posts)
66. From the link
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 02:21 PM
Apr 2013
“(E-bikes) also have very quiet motors. So, you don’t always hear them coming.”

You don't hear bicycles either.

“And residents have complained that when they deliver food, they take off, they go high speeds, they go against traffic, they go on sidewalks. They’re a danger to pedestrians.”

E-bikes don't do these things. Bad riders do. Is Bloomberg saying that NYC doesn't have laws against speeding, driving the wrong way or driving on sidewalks.

So much stupid in this law.

bluedigger

(17,077 posts)
73. It's nice that the gunners have found a non-gun topic they can respond to finally.
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 03:24 PM
Apr 2013

I guess uniting in their hatred of all things Bloomberg gives them some cover for their single minded posting focus at last.

Union Scribe

(7,099 posts)
74. Actually it looks like the other way around
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 03:37 PM
Apr 2013

where people who agree with Bloomberg on one issue make excuses for him. Or are you a fan of moving to shutter libraries, stop and frisk minorities, oppose unions, fund education deform, and his idea that the Constitution should be re-interpreted after the Boston bombing?

Jamastiene

(38,187 posts)
76. *Rolls eyes at Bloomberg, again*
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 05:10 PM
Apr 2013

He's such an asshole. Hasn't he ever heard of poker cards in the spokes to make noise on a bike? Just ask that they use those cards in the spokes and not drive on the sidewalks, ffs. Since when is any bicycle more dangerous to pedestrians than cars? Is he going to ban cars next? What about chewing gum? I'm surprised he hasn't banned bananas, because the peels are unsightly and slippery. He fucking annoys me and I don't even live in the city.

Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
77. It doesn't make sense to me
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 05:14 PM
Apr 2013

Make reasonable rules and enforce them, but why lock urban dwellers into either muscle-propelled bikes or motor vehicles?

Urban problems such as traffic congestion and pollution would be greatly ameliorated by more electric bikes. Also, we are an aging society, and these may be necessary for older persons.

Just my two cents.

 

bunnies

(15,859 posts)
79. Fast and dangerous like say... a motorcycle?
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 05:21 PM
Apr 2013


on edit: wouldnt it make more sense just to make them follow the traffic rules?

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
81. Not even close to a motorcycle
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 05:32 PM
Apr 2013

Indeed most ebikes aren't even as fast as a strong rider on a regular bicycle. I have one I built myself and it's actually slower on steep downhills than it was pre-electrified because the motor has some drag, about 25 to 27 mph max where before I could go well over 30 on a long downhill.

However it does let an old fossil like me get up the steepish hills in my area without having an aneurysm, the slower you are going the more assist an ebike gives you, over about 20 or so most of them don't give you any assist at all.


ProgressiveProfessor

(22,144 posts)
89. Does that makeup for all his other crap?
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 08:27 PM
Apr 2013

In the eyes of his sycophants maybe, but ask the OWS people if you want an honest opinion.

Robb

(39,665 posts)
90. One of them is Mayors Against Illegal Guns.
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 08:45 PM
Apr 2013

Have you heard of it? Great organization, good work being done, powerful advocacy. Plus the funding to get something done.

Robb

(39,665 posts)
98. Bloomberg also donated a TON of money to Planned Parenthood.
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 10:25 PM
Apr 2013

Probably bugs a lot of the "Progressive Gun Enthusiasts" he did that, too -- even apart from all the support for gun control.

ProgressiveProfessor

(22,144 posts)
100. You can't pink/green/blue or white wash the 1% stench and hubris from Bloomie
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 10:36 PM
Apr 2013

He just keeps doing 1%er things for all to see.

Robb

(39,665 posts)
102. Donated more than $1 billion to Johns Hopkins. With a "b", "billion."
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 10:52 PM
Apr 2013

Also, he's really in favor of gun control.

ProgressiveProfessor

(22,144 posts)
103. He is still a 1%er doing 1%er things
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 10:56 PM
Apr 2013

Can one buy acceptability in your world? If so, what is your price?

ProgressiveProfessor

(22,144 posts)
105. Bloomie is still a rabid 1%er with even more hubris than money
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 11:44 PM
Apr 2013

What did he have to spend for you to ignore he ignominious actions and see only those you approve of?

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
92. E-bike? That seems the same thing as an electric motorbike. Which is a vehicle...
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 08:55 PM
Apr 2013

that should be on the streets, not sidewalks.

markpkessinger

(8,381 posts)
94. Bloomberg says they're fast and dangerous -- but let me tell you something . . .
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 09:34 PM
Apr 2013

. . . As someone who, a few years ago, was hit by a bicycle messenger, you won't convince me that they are inherently more or less dangerous than a bicycle. I was walking south along the west side of Third Avenue. As I crossed East 54th Street, which runs westbound one way, my primary concern traffic-wise was from traffic turning onto 54th from Third Avenue. I did a quick, peripheral glance to my right, and saw nothing coming, but, since there was no reason to expect any eastbound traffic emerging from 54th Street, focused most of my attention on any traffic on Third Avenue that might be looking to turn. And I had the "Walk" sign. I crossed, my eyes still looking slightly to the left, when . . . WHAM . . . this bicycle, operated by a bicycle messenger peddling like he was in the Tour de France, hit the right side of my body. The force of the impact threw me up in the air, and then down on my left side, arm outstretched above my head, so force of my full body weight came down on my ribcage, resulting in very badly, badly bruised ribs. I got myself up from the pavement as the cyclist asked if I was okay, but needless to say, the wind had been knocked out of me, so all I could do was respond with a kind of glazed nod. He then said -- get this -- "Next time you really should watch where you're walking," and then sped off. Asshole. My point is, any vehicle can be dangerous -- it's the driver that counts.

ProgressiveProfessor

(22,144 posts)
99. In my interactions with them in the past I saw them coming
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 10:33 PM
Apr 2013

and made sure they got the worst of the incident.

Yet somehow large sodas are more pressing than pedestrians' safety.

NYC Liberal

(20,132 posts)
96. They're ALREADY illegal on public streets, for good reason. This bill just makes it easier
Sat Apr 27, 2013, 09:59 PM
Apr 2013

to enforce the existing law. Hence why the title of the bill is "A Local Law to amend the administrative code of the city of New York, in relation to the enforcement of motor scooter provisions".

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
106. What is the "good reason" ebikes are illegal?
Sun Apr 28, 2013, 02:28 AM
Apr 2013

Because they aren't in the vast majority of states, indeed in my state they are specifically allowed by law on bike paths. Even in Europe where things are often much more closely regulated ebikes are legal.

If you actually were to ride most commercial ebikes you would be underwhelmed by the performance, they are by no means what you seem to be imagining.

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