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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMississippi school forces students to listen to christian lecture while teachers block exits
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/04/26/mississippi-school-forces-students-to-listen-to-christian-lecture-teachers-block-exits/Northwest Rankin High School in Flowood, Mississippi is under fire for allegedly forcing its students to attend and listen to Christian lectures during three assemblies held in April alone. Worse yet, students were barred from leaving and teachers blocked the exits to prevent any of them from doing so. One student was able to film one of the assemblies. As a result, a lawsuit has been filed on behalf of the students by the American Humanist Association. The organization filed the suit on Wednesday.
According to Raw Story,
The assemblies showed a video laced with Christian messages about overcoming personal hardships through Jesus Christ and were allegedly led by local church officials.
These church officials spoke about Jesus Christ dying for our sins and that the only way to atone for those sins is to accept Jesus. In other words, Christian officials were trying to indoctrinate students into the Christian religion whether they liked it or not.
Under the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment, such assemblies are unconstitutional because they violate the religious freedom of those who do not want to be in attendance. And since the school forced all of the students to be there and physically blocked them from leaving, these students were held against their will. That action is known as unlawful restraint and it is a felony. So this high school basically committed a crime in the effort to convert non-Christians to Christianity.
BethanyQuartz
(193 posts)The rest of the world thinks we're crazy because of stuff like this you know. I have to laugh at the sheer fanatical idiocy though. Good for the student who managed to record the evidence.
Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)There is far *less* religious indoctrination in the USA than in most countries.
Hell, even here in the UK, most state schools have a compulsory "daily act of collective worship of a broadly Christian nature".
BethanyQuartz
(193 posts)But I'm surprised you bring up the UK. I expected a comment about some deeply fundamental country in the Mideast or other. I'm surprised that happens in the UK. Europe as a whole is much more atheist than America. Much, much more.
Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)A lot of European states with much less religion per capita than the USA have state religions.
BethanyQuartz
(193 posts)You have my sympathy along with those kids in our more backwoods states.
Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)The C of E are about as close to being atheists as you can get while still technically being a church.
quakerboy
(13,919 posts)Some might argue that being a church has very little to do with being theist or atheist.
dickthegrouch
(3,172 posts)HOWEVER, the students are not required to attend it.
In fact that religious instruction is the ONLY instruction required by the Act. My high school had a supervised area for students not wishing to attend and there was no problem with anyone not attending.
In respect of the OP, I'd make as much as noise as possible until the staff removed me for being disruptive. I'd cite statute and court cases and tell them the names of the FBI agents I was going to complain to. I'd tell them that a single blemish on my school record as a result of exercising my freedom would cause them to lose a whole lot more. I'd find their buttons and stamp on them.
reACTIONary
(5,770 posts)quakerboy
(13,919 posts)Doesn't know any FBI agents by name. Nor do they generally know statutes or court cases by heart.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)dickthegrouch
(3,172 posts)Is that they go research that stuff and put real fear into those criminally ignorant educators.
An FBI agent's name can be found in the newspaper.
kiri
(794 posts)One of the things thats so disappointing to me is that 50 years after the Supreme Court decision, were still fighting some of the same battles, Schempp said. Youd have thought they wouldve abated by now.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)I dunno .... they might do something similar in, say, Saudi Arabia, just not with Christ involved. And also in China or Korea, just not religion involved....
lpbk2713
(42,753 posts)Nope.
Not when their time is diverted to all this proselytizing.
Tx4obama
(36,974 posts)Mississippi High School Lawsuit: Students Allegedly Forced To Attend 'Lectures' On Being 'Open' To Jesus
Students at Mississippi's Northwest Rankin High School who claim that they and their classmates were forced to attend assemblies about Christianity and the power of Jesus Christ are getting help from a top atheist organization to put an end to the meetings.
In a lawsuit filed by the American Humanist Association on behalf of the plaintiffs, students claim that the school sponsored mandatory Christian Assemblies" organized by a local Evangelical church. Alexis Smith, a senior at the school who says she attended one of the assemblies, says in the lawsuit: "Faculty and parents stood near the exit door, preventing students from leaving," while an administrator "harassed several students who attempted to leave." She claims that a classmate not involved with the suit videotaped the entire event.
-snip-
The complaint goes on to claim that the church representative concluded the assembly with a Christian prayer.
According to an unnamed plaintiff and the plaintiff's friends, at least two separate assemblies for other classes played out similarly, and made other students feel uncomfortable.
-snip-
Full article here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/26/mississippi-high-school-lawsuit_n_3164796.html
RainDog
(28,784 posts)This is just like the Scopes Trial, in terms of forcing certain religious groups to understand that their views of the separation of church and state are not in line with reality.
Evangelical Christians think it is their duty to force their beliefs on others and they don't care if they violate the Constitution to do so because their religious belief trumps others' Constitutional protections.
These groups need to back off. They won't stop, tho, unless the judiciary forces them to.
I wonder if a jury of their peers will recognize others' rights?
Sherman A1
(38,958 posts)This event was in my opinion beyond absurd. I hope the school and it's officials have an "interesting" time in court.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)This is twisted.
Response to Tx4obama (Reply #3)
Name removed Message auto-removed
leftyohiolib
(5,917 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)chervilant
(8,267 posts)I wonder if you'll get excoriated for that delicious bon mot...
Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)if we keep cutting them slack, they will get there eventually. If you want to go to church go to church.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)backscatter712
(26,355 posts)ZRT2209
(1,357 posts)RKP5637
(67,104 posts)Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)OriginalGeek
(12,132 posts)and gay kids beat up.
Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)While I can't offer an authoritative rebuttal, I find it deeply implausible that the Taliban are less prone to violence against gays than American Christians are - or, indeed, that they're not much, much more so.
Are you sure you're not just making that up?
OriginalGeek
(12,132 posts)more than they throw acid.
Either way, it's pretty shitty isn't it?
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)I should say Catholics allied with other various right wing extremist groups.
http://www.advocate.com/news/world-news/2013/04/22/man-nice-beaten-antigay-violence-sweeps-france
Quantess
(27,630 posts)by pointing out who is worse. I agree that Islamist fundies tend to be worse. It's not an excuse though.
Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)hootinholler
(26,449 posts)exactly what immediately came to mind.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)truegrit44
(332 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Children are not chattel, and you would not be able to file a suit since it wasn't your rights which were violated.
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)The child doesn't even have to agree at all.
Minors can't file on their own, who do you think files for them when injured or wronged?
I know this, ask me how I know.
xmas74
(29,674 posts)I thought this was something that every parent knew.
I've also sued for child support through the courts on behalf of my child.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Which is not always true, and unlikely in the context where the parent is clearly following their own agenda regardless of what the kid may want.
It is by no means automatic.
What we have in the thread are people who don't have them saying "if it was my kid I'd sue". No - only after a determination the kid was on board. It's not the parents' suit.
Read the story again, and notice who is acting on behalf of the kids participating in the suit.
Also, flip it around. Is it your position that if one of the kids wanted to sue, that it would be up to the parents to disallow it? That's simply saying "don't tell my kids what to believe, I'll tell you what they should believe."
(e.g.
http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F3/333/417/603160/
333 F.3d 417: S.g., As Guardian Ad Litem of A.g. a Minor and Individually, Appellant v. Sayreville Board of Education; Georgia B. Baumann; William L. Bauer)
Crunchy Frog
(26,579 posts)Not that it would have very far to go.
Forced religious indoctrination of children in a public school setting should result in prison sentences.
RKP5637
(67,104 posts)let their god defend and save their asses. US has some bad cases of pathologically delusional minds in some areas.
Crunchy Frog
(26,579 posts)Wish we could give them what they really wanted, and feed them to some lions.
RKP5637
(67,104 posts)being persecuted, but yet the ones I see doing the persecuting are some christians. And, that's when they are restricted somehow from persecuting and/or indoctrinating others ... forcing their will on others ... then they scream persecution. I guess this'll get me a few more ignores on DU.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)Besides, you can get really big punitive judgements in civil courts
Crunchy Frog
(26,579 posts)I would personally love to see criminal charges. Barring that, a massive settlement would be good.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)Otherwise being truant would not be a problem and having a closed campus would be illegal.
They could have stood up and turned their backs. However, given how ass backwards the place is, they may have gotten in serious trouble for that.
Sgent
(5,857 posts)18 USC § 247 - Damage to religious property; obstruction of persons in the free exercise of religious beliefs
Its a criminal matter if the US Attorney wants to go that far (he won't). Given, its a misdemeanor since there was no bodily harm, but there are criminal penalties to this sort of foolishness.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)often IMO in violation of student and parents rights.
Again this is a gang buster of a civil suit, but not criminal. Also the plaintiff can get punitive damages well in excess of anything available in a criminal trial.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)I was hoping for some real jail time for the Talibornagain. I guess a large judgement for violating civil rights will have to do.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)the district taxpayers will pay any and all fines. Not those who actually caused this to happen.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)The taxpayer's will elect new schoolboard that doesn't cost them so much money in legal judgements. If not...if they merely regard it as a cost of doing "business"...then it would seem repeated judgements and tax increases are a reasonable redistribution of wealth. Maybe more will join in the lawsuits.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)If peeps taxes go up to pay for the lawsuit settlements, and the money goes to non-talibornagain, then I'd say theres a reasonable redistribution of wealth happening.
Bandit
(21,475 posts)you might have standing in a civil suit...Your taxes should not ever be used to promote religion...NEVER..
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)And lived in the cunty. I don't even live in that stae.
MichelleB
(80 posts)I refuse to enforce religious views onto my children. That's a choice purely up to them and if my children were students there, I would be OUTRAGED!! I think all the parents have a right to be!! Religious diversification is one thing. I think all should know a bit about each religion but to force them on to someone else, child or otherwise is completely intolerable! iMO
newmember
(805 posts)kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)Oh, and federal kidnapping charges for holding them against their will.
newmember
(805 posts)The lawsuit claims the assembly for seniors included a video featuring a number of subjects: A pornography addict, a gay man, a promiscuous woman, drug addicts and people suffering from depression. The one factor that linked all of them was that they'd found hope in God. When the video concluded, the lawsuit claims the school staff applauded, and a representative from the church came forward to tell the studnets that they, too, could find solutions to their problems by turning to Christianity
Recursion
(56,582 posts)then the principal can work with the union to begin the termination process.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Crunchy Frog
(26,579 posts)then why don't you go to a site that's more...friendly towards your views?
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)How do you know which viewpoints should be the approved DU viewpoints? How would anyone know? Is there a list someplace? Or do you have a reason for your animosity towards the poster?
Which viewpoints should be avoided?
Crunchy Frog
(26,579 posts)I was commenting on the apparent expression of total contempt towards this community. Views were being attributed to DUers as a group that I've seen no evidence that they actually hold. If I felt that way towards DU, I would be looking for someplace else that was a better fit.
Of course, everybody has a right to despise this community and still take part in it, at least until they get themselves kicked off. And it's not up to me, as I have no power to demand or enforce anything.
Are you saying that my viewpoints shouldn't be allowed?
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)the only thing that I saw at #37 was:
I neither saw any contempt displayed by the author of #37 toward the author of #11 to whom he was responding nor DUers as a group. Unless, I'm mistaken, he was rejecting a one-size-fits-all approach and expressing his view that those involved with this should be given notice that their wrongful activities are wrongful and be given an opportunity to not repeat them.
Although I tend to think that all those involved should be fired, I also appreciate the concept of listening to and respecting different viewpoints. IMO, I think the poster was saying that different viewpoints should be considered and rehaibilitatoln should be offered to the pricipal and teachers when he said at #37, "No, this is DU."
If somehow the full expression at #37 is an "apparent expression of total contempt towards this community," I don't get it.
If you are seeing something that I have not, what is it?
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)Should I have been fired?
Crunchy Frog
(26,579 posts)JimDandy
(7,318 posts)If so, then yes you should be fired.
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)Which is that teachers have very little say, if any at all. They are the absolute lowest rung on the ladder, almost certianly had no idea what the assembly was about, and would have been fired anyway for not following orders. Teachers are forced into this bullshit just like students are.
Blaming teachers for this is like blaming bank tellers for the Wall Street collapse.
For the record, I say through the assembly and then threatened to sue. The principal swore he had no idea that it was going to become religious at all. It was supposed to be -- and started off as -- some patriotic thing about working hard to rise above humble circumstances, and then quickly turned into a Jesus thing. Also, it was free.
Over the course of a week, the principal walked to every classroom and apologized in person to every teacher and every student, and then the teachers had a wonderful discussion with students about the first amendment. So we let that one go.
Lady Freedom Returns
(14,120 posts)One of the cases in point ?.
Captain Stern
(2,201 posts)Of course they blocked the exits..they had to! How else could all those kids be saved?!?
It only sounds crazy if you're not crazy.
alp227
(32,018 posts)These teachers wish those kids grew up to work in "right to work" facilities forced to work for hours and hours with locked exits.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)It's a freaking school, people, not a church. How dare they?
Where I grew up in the South, public schools were SECULAR. This would have never, ever have happened.
What the hell is wrong with these nuts? No, wait, I know. This is your public school on Teahadism.
Between this and the insanely religious comments I found tonight on youtube about Obama's PP speech, this is scaring me half to death.
Take a note of how crazy it is, we now live in a country that is turning into something like the Taliban, look at the fanaticism and dogma:
http://www.youtube.com
/watch?v=laYQ2DDFmCg
Split to show the page without the video popping up. Erase the space.
SunSeeker
(51,550 posts)Back when I went to a public elementary school in the deep South, the only mention of God was in the pledge of allegience. This shit is crazy even for the South. It's unconstitutional and it's child abuse.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Sgent
(5,857 posts)where I grew up we did line up and say a prayer to Jesus every day before lunch which was led by our teacher -- that was elementary school in the early 80's. I remember they handed out bibles (NT only) through 7th or 8th grade every year.
At HS in the 90's we still had a preacher to lead us in prayer at our graduation, football games, etc.
It wasn't as overt as this particular event, but it was still pretty bad. The other problem is that if your bring a lawsuit or complain to much you will have to leave the community.
LostOne4Ever
(9,288 posts)They had a mandatory baccalaureate ceremony where they had the Catholic preacher come in and preach at us at my high school. I complained to the school councilor saying it was unconstitutional and she responded:
"Don't worry, its non-denominational."
>.>
I dropped the subject. Apparently everyone in my part of Texas is Christian.
/sigh
When my brother graduated I found out they had made it optional. I came across her at the grocery store and asked her about it and she said the state made them do it that way
defacto7
(13,485 posts)A lot of crimes committed. There should be a lot of law suits and jail time served on ALL planners and participants. This really is big. If this kind of thing is let to slide, America is dead.
ReRe
(10,597 posts)... if it's a private church school, then this happens. If it's a public school, this is not supposed to happen. I hope the school administration gets the constitution thrown at them.
The ACLU will be on their doorstep on Monday morning.
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)they still cannot lock the doors so the students cannot get out. Unlawful imprisonment, besides being a fire hazzard.
ReRe
(10,597 posts)shenmue
(38,506 posts)It has no obligation to hold services.
If they want something else, they need to build a private school. There is no state church and it's against the law to have the state compel a religious function.
ck4829
(35,045 posts)Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)That is why these idiots believe working for less money and giving billionaires tax breaks is the right thing to do, Jeebus told them so.
IDemo
(16,926 posts)It's as plain as the Earth is flat.
RKP5637
(67,104 posts)forcing, coercing, bamboozling people into their indoctrination camps! These people are no different than those many castigate, they just go by different names in the US.
Phillip McCleod
(1,837 posts)..if it wasn't for indoctrination. they *all* exist by this means.
believers calling it 'raising our children as christians'..
..but i don't care if you're UU, if you tell your kids 'these myths are true and those myths are false' then that's child abuse.
RKP5637
(67,104 posts)malaise
(268,930 posts)on point
(2,506 posts)If she sinks and drowns she loves god
If she floats she is a witch!!
temporary311
(955 posts)Lucky Luciano
(11,253 posts)They would probably let you leave the assembly shortly after that.
think
(11,641 posts)but there is that passage in the Bible where Jesus holds his apostles at gun point and waterboards them into believing so I understand where they are coming from...
MineralMan
(146,286 posts)of Jackson, MS. Demographically, it's 80% white. As a small town, objections to this nonsense will lead to ostracism for those who object. That's how these small towns get away with unconstitutional religious stuff in their schools. Only a small number of the people who live there object to it, and objections lead to ugly behavior by some other residents, so people tend to keep their mouths shut.
Only action by organizations like the ACLU can work in small towns like that one. Fear of retribution keeps residents who object from voicing those objections. It's a very sad situation, repeated in towns all over the country.
MountainLaurel
(10,271 posts)Is writing a book on the violence that often faces litigants in church-state cases from their communities, from the "educators" involved, and sometimes from their own families.
Phillip McCleod
(1,837 posts)..hailing from just that sort of town, myself i can say it was exactly that stifling atmosphere that sent my family fleeing to 'the city' when it started to negatively impact my older sister, who was getting bullied bad. sadly, once we got to the city, it was i who was bullied and there were just *too many* students for teachers and admins to do anything about it, or they just didn't care. i was once shouted down in a civics class for blithely referencing the theory of evolution. red faced tweens screaming 'maybe *you* came from a monkey, but *i* came from GOD!!' the teacher just smirked.
out of the frying pan.. into the fire.
MountainLaurel
(10,271 posts)A friend of mine whose father was a county school superintendent in Jerry Falwell Land spent part of her childhood under state police protection when her dad tried to get rid of the practice of children being let out of school several hours a week to attend bible instruction at a local church. They got death threats, most of her friends were no longer allowed to associate with her, and her father was attacked by a local pastor in a Burger King parking lot.
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)This shit is just an old tradition, forming the minds of the slaves early in life.
How befitting a world-view created to control slaves is used in this manner.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)Just wait until after you're dead and everything will be rainbows and lollipops. Okay, back to work. *cRaCk!*
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)Seriously, wouldn't that be a fun project?
Brimley
(139 posts)Correct me if I'm wrong.
ellie
(6,929 posts)The only way these wackos learn is to hit them in the pocketbook.
obama2terms
(563 posts)Holding kids against their will, are you effing kidding me?! One of the main reasons why I distanced myself from religion years ago, is because of crap like this. Now if they gave the kids an option that would be another story, but this is just plain wrong, way to be a good influence on kids, not.....
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)n2doc
(47,953 posts)I thought schools spent all their time on test prep. Mississippi must have decided they weren't going to do well on those anyway, so why not god-ify them heathens.
Bette Noir
(3,581 posts)St. Olaf cut off the hands of pagans who refused to convert.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)find it hard to understand why I should not use a little rethug thinking regarding the states that act so much like a rethug - why should they not be subjected to a little practice called disaster capitalism which requires the state to be reduced to totally helpless before anyone helps them? They think God is going to just materialize out ot the blue to fix things for the "good" people so let them wait to be helped by their god.
Rex
(65,616 posts)From the superintendent and work your way down. Won't happen, if that was here in Texas it would be an instant dismissal in court. Our governor goes to churches and gives political speeches and nobody seems to care.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)firenewt
(298 posts)education. Class was held in a building next door to the school - owned by the fire department. We were not forced to attend - could opt out. There never was a problem with attending or not. Nobody was thought less of if they didn't attend. Back then, most everybody went to church yet saw no need to force their views on others.
RebelOne
(30,947 posts)but there were never any religious classes held at all in any school I attended. This was in Miami, FL.
firenewt
(298 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)MountainLaurel
(10,271 posts)Virginia has had several lawsuits filed relevant to that practice.
Initech
(100,063 posts)Zoeisright
(8,339 posts)is "just a piece of paper". Not surprised this happened in the south.
MattBaggins
(7,904 posts)Preamble: Gawd Gawd Gawd Jeebus
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
States Rights and stuff
Nuff said. The End.
Moostache
(9,895 posts)I would immediately start bowing to Mecca in the middle of their love me some Jeebus rally...
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)Another might be to ask whether a person can pray outloud.
E.g., "Please Lord, please make them stop doing this to me."
Apophis
(1,407 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)nakocal
(551 posts)It is really sad that almost all republicans who claim to be Christian do Not follow the teachings of Christ. If there minister said that poor people should be allowed to suffer and die, they would be appalled. But they have no problem voting for politicians that support policies that allow the poor to die.
Being a Christian to them is just saying how much they love Jesus and forcing others to do the same. But just saying you are a Christian without actions does not make you a Christian anymore than my saying Danny DiVito is a five times NBA MVP makes it so.
Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)Yes, that guy that is still evangelizing on TV.
This was in a public high school. Assembly in the gym.
They got away with it by never saying "Jesus" or "God".
He kept talking about "The best friend you'll ever have".
He whined about how his mother wanted to abort him........this was before Roe v. Wade was decided....I'll just leave it at that.
Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)grantcart
(53,061 posts)http://www.wafb.com/story/22080524/northwest-rankin-high-sued-for-religious-assembly
media seems to confirm the facts saying others had complained as well.
Unbelievable
NealK
(1,864 posts)another_liberal
(8,821 posts)"Those who can make you believe in absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)Rozlee
(2,529 posts)He wasn't too fond of religion. Smart man.
Raine
(30,540 posts)them being that receptive to your message.
avebury
(10,952 posts)making a phone call to the police department and insisting on pressing charges against the school and the employees. What they did constituted a clear violation of the 1st Amendment and prohibiting students from leaving the room could constitute detaining someone against their will. I would make sure that my child did have a cell phone and knew that he / she was to call me the instant such an incident began because I would get in my car and drive over and be having a conversation with the school.
SummerSnow
(12,608 posts)Iggo
(47,549 posts)HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)of legal changes brought in by/with ed deform.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)Man bites dog kind of thing.
Education deform would not want religion taking time from test prep
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)that's what's happening.
mick063
(2,424 posts)Last edited Wed May 1, 2013, 12:50 AM - Edit history (1)
Exhibit #57,632
Lydia Leftcoast
(48,217 posts)Religious sermons do not belong in the public schools, not even in a town where most people are some brand of evangelical. If the parents want that, they should send their kids to a school run by their favorite flavor of Christian.
jakefrep
(3,982 posts)...then taken a piss on any teacher that tried to stop me from leaving.
muntrv
(14,505 posts)kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)responsible for this, and there's no telling what I'd do once I got them behind closed doors.
greymattermom
(5,754 posts)my kids had to attend the DARE (aka Drugs are Really Excellent) program at school
Blue Owl
(50,349 posts)Sounds like material for a new Simpsons episode!