Cynicism does not equal progressivism.

[MineralMan]

Progressives work toward attainable goals, and then move forward toward new attainable goals. They do not work to obstruct any positive change. Those who do that accomplish nothing, but actually create regressivism.

[Fumesucker]

1. I haven't found that many people who are born cynics

Just the opposite in fact, children are generally trusting and open if they haven't been given some reason not to be.

Cynics are made, not born and in the political realm they're made by a broken system.

Besides, people differ on whether changes are positive or negative, so many things are a matter of perspective.

[Marr]

2. Progressives don't paddle to the right, just because it's "attainable".

My problem with this White House and the Democrats in Congress is that they aren't even paddling in the right direction. It's not a matter of speed.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

3. Pedantry does not confer correctness

What qualifies you to speak as the Voice of Progressives? Last I checked, you seem to be very centerist (after you switched to the Democratic Party, I mean). It seems odd that you're assuming the universal voice of the progressive.

[MineralMan]

4. Just expressing my opinion.

Yours might differ.

[freshwest]

5. Very true.

[dionysus]

6. the people who have been at it since 2007 will never change....

[MineralMan]

9. Irrelevance does not equal a real response. nt

[Bluenorthwest]

11. Your histoy is most certainly relevant when you attempt to lecture others

Actions have consequences.
And rhetoric does not equal rectitude.
Nor does verbiage equal validity.

[MineralMan]

13. Oh, fuss and bother.

Balderdash, as well.

[bluestate10]

8. You're going to get roasted by the holier than thou crowd. They see no way but the way they

define. I happen to agree with your viewpoint. The fact is, President Obama, in less than five years in office has done more for progressive change than the progressive heroes, Bernie Sanders and Dennis K did or have done in their entire political careers.

[MineralMan]

10. Thanks!

[Bonobo]

12. Apples and oranges

You are a bit confused.

Tactics have nothing directly to do with one's moral positions.

In fact, I would argue that it is your position that is the more cynical one.

If great people throughout history had thrown away ideals in favor of pure pragmatism, no great changes would ever have occurred.

[MineralMan]

14. I do not think I amconfused.

Your opinion might differ, though.

[Bonobo]

16. Yes, I was expressing my opinion.

Strange that you feel that needs to constantly be said, like a mantra.

Of course that is what people do here -express their opinions.

My opinions is that you rationalize the abandonment of moral positions based on the self-fulfiliing prophecy that "it is not possible".

That makes you easily manipulated in the service of more nefarious agendas --in my opinion, of course.

[Number23]

15. The denizens of this forum will scream and bray

But this is the truth. Those who gush about being an "FDR Democrat", as if that means anything in 2013 to anyone outside of the four corners of this web site as well as focuses only on the man's good deeds and completely ignores his own shortcomings and multiple compromises, will come a'hollering.

The gushing that some do over those who talk a good game and accomplish absolutely nothing while endlessly criticizing those who have to negotiate to get some or any of the goal accomplished says more about this place than anything else ever could.

EDIT: Heh. To see how right or wrong I was, I actually did a search on "I am an FDR Democrat." SHOCKINGLY, DU was the only place that turned up such a phrase.

[Electric Monk]

18. I guess you didn't look very hard

SHOCKINGLY, DU was the only place that turned up such a phrase.

A quick search also found these:
http://elemming2.blogspot.ca/2007/03/i-am-fdr-democrat.html
http://countywidenews.com/guest-column-fdr-democrat-meets-forgotten-man-p1599.htm
http://www.ourcampaigns.com/alldiscuss.html?To=News&NewsID=6603&DOffset=13
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/08/27/1011149/-Dear-Hippy-Punching-fanboys-this-is-BULLSH-T-if-you-want-me-to-work-to-re-elect-Dems-knock-it-off

[Number23]

19. Thanks. I didn't see the other Dems that were okay with the oppression during FDR's term

and long for a return to those days. FDR fixed a lot, but he ignored a hell of a lot too. But I guess that's okay because he's a demi-god to the people who scream and gnash and hate "cheerleaders" unless they're "cheering" for the right person, I guess.

Thanks for pointing them out to me. I knew I was wrong to think that all of those people would be here on DU.

[JaneyVee]

17. A word about my personal philosophy.

It is anchored in optimism. It must be, for optimism brings with it hope, a future with a purpose, and therefore, a will to fight for a better world. Without this optimism, there is no reason to carry on.

If we think of the struggle as a climb up a mountain, then we must visualize a mountain with no top. We see a top, but when we finally reach it, the overcast rises and we find ourselves merely on a bluff. The mountain continues on up. Now we see the "real" top ahead of us, and strive for it, only to find we've reached another bluff, the top still above us.

And so it goes on, interminably.

Knowing that the mountain has no top, that it is a perpetual quest from plateau to plateau, the question arises, "Why the struggle, the conflict, the heartbreak, the danger, the sacrifice. Why the constant climb?" Our answer is the same as that which a real mountain climber gives when he is asked why he does what he does. "Because it's there." Because life is there ahead of you and either one tests oneself in its challenges or huddles in the valleys of a dreamless day-to-day existence whose only purpose is the preservation of a illusory security and safety.

The latter is what the vast majority of people choose to do, fearing the adventure into the unknown. Paradoxically, they give up the dream of what may lie ahead on the heighs of tomorrow for a perpetual nightmare - an endless succession of days fearing the loss of a tenuous security.

Saul Alinsky

[loyalsister]

20. Thanks for that

Sometimes, I think it seems like it's almost trendy for some progressives to bash Obama.
I'm a little perplexed by some of what is coming from the WH, but I am well aware of the obstructive operation of the current congress. the president currently has what is arguably the most difficult job in. the. world. It's reasonable to question his decisions, but pretending that we have any real clue about how hard it is doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

[Bonobo]

21. Here's a perfect example of what you're talking about.

What a cynic! Complaining about cuts to Meals on Wheels! What a Regressive!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022760086

[woo me with science]

23. +10000

Such poutrage and hissyfits.


Child poverty rankings (US just above Romania)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022663781

Incomes Flat in Recovery, but Not for the 1
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014400736

Top 1% get 121% of income gains since 2009 (100% of new income + 21% from your old income)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022384139

U.S. corporate profits stronger than ever, workers' wages fallen to lowest-ever share of GDP (CNN)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021922334

U.S. Income Inequality Now Worse Than Many Latin American Countries
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022268073

Ranks of working poor increasing
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022200197

Inequality Rages as Dwindling Wages Lock Millions in Poverty
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022198286

The Middle Class In America Is Being Wiped Out – Here Are 60 Facts That Prove It
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022144851

Child poverty rates increase unabated
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022268450

40 Percent of Americans Now Make Less than 1968 Minimum Wage
http://www.democraticunderground.com/111631016

Corporate Profits Have Grown By 171 Percent Under ‘Anti-Business’ Obama
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014372334

US poverty on track to reach 46-year high; suburbs, underemployed workers, children hit hard
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002998131

Poverty, hunger among retirees increasing
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002748342

The Economy is "Recovering" By Creating More Low-Wage Jobs... Increasingly Filled By Graduates
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022602162

"Recovery" in US is lifting profits, but not adding jobs
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014414149

Obama to use pension funds of ordinary Americans to pay for bank mortgage settlements
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002205218

What Recovery? Across America, People in Distressed Cities and Small Towns Face Economic Catastrophe
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022545596

Real wages decline; literally no one notices
http://www.democraticunderground.com/11172387

Wall Street Soars with Wealth as Wages Stagnate, Jobs Remain in a Slump
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12526154

Wages for bottom 90% declined 1.2% during 2009-2011 recovery, top 1% income grew 8.2%
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022271466

Three Minimum Wage Jobs Needed To Afford Two-Bedroom Apartment
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022578738

Wages have fallen to a record low as a share of America’s gross domestic product.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022183930

[Hekate]

22. Works for me, MinMan

KnR

[Donald Ian Rankin]

24. I'm not sure the word "cynicism" means what you think it means.

Working towards attainable goals is entirely compatible with - and, indeed, encouraged by - cynicism.

The main difference between cynics and non-cynics in this context (there are others, obviously) is that cynics admit and point out when a goal is unattainable, whereas non-cynics refuse to acknowledge it, and that cynics don't confuse "attainable" with "inevitable" or "likely".

[enjoyingyourpeasyet]

25. Incrementalism is called winning but still losing

It is what happens when Democrats who run for elected office that are not liberal or progressive. Sure they may win but they cause the people to still lose due to with them either siding with the lunatics on the right or watering down good legislation in order to get their vote.

Bottom line is what liberal and progressive gains have been made by pandering to the Corporate Blue Dog Moderate Dems?

[Laelth]

28. Good post. Welcome to DU! n/t

-Laelth

[graham4anything]

40. Try all social issues. Which is all that matters.

George Wallace and Dixiecrats didn't like Martin Luther King Jr.

[Laelth]

26. Perhaps cynicism is not inherent in progressive thought.

However, any sane progressive, in this political climate, has every right and reason to be cynical. I suspect that is why so much cynicism is evident on DU.

-Laelth

[graham4anything]

27. The nation is 80-20, but the 20% fringe on the left and right down out the silent majority

It is time to take back our country.

The voters want both sides together.

They do not want this 50-50. They want 80-20.

The 20% which is made up of those on the right and those on the left are drowning out what America wants.
Just because the leaders in the house and senate are 50-50, does not mean the voters are.

They are captive to the fringes, the extremists who yell the loudest.

Well, I am now yelling back. I am mad as hell that the fringe20 (I would say 15 on the right and 5 on the left) have commandered the airwaves.

It is time for the silent majority to outshout the very vocal minority
I equate the very vocal minority with the NRA.
They just have more airtime and more money used specfic to burn things down.
Nothing positive

100% negative is how the fringe20 operate.
And its the same people same columnists, same altmedia all the time.
And the vast majority of America is not mired in Vietnam, is not mired in Iraq.

President Obama is getting us out of the two wars, those are old stale issues.
Festering hatred against the Bush's is inane.


Best way to defeat them is for Hillary to defeat Jeb

Instead of negativity, positivity
love over hate

because the 20% has shown its true colors since the day President Obama was inuagurated.
They didn't waste a second not showing their discontent.
Same old now for 80 years.(and one of the signs is Adlai vs. Ike. the same as Jimmy vs. Ronnie.)

[Enrique]

30. ok, so if Hillary becomes president

all the negativity will go away? I'm skeptical.

[enjoyingyourpeasyet]

33. See if you would have voted for Hillary you would have gotten a public option

See if you would have voted for Hillary you would have gotten a public option even though she ran on and supported the Heritage Foundation, give all your money to private insurers, Health Care Plan.

Now pay attention Pres Obama ran and won on the Public Option yet when the time came we got the Heritage Foundation, give all your money to private insurers, Health Care Plan aka Obamacare because the MINORITY, 1%, did not want a public option because there is still plenty of money to fleece from Americans on health care.

It is the American way profit on pain and sickness.

[In_The_Wind]

34. Why did you join DU.

[enjoyingyourpeasyet]

43. Because I am a lifelong registered Democrat

Who wishes to express my opinion on a variety of political issues just like everyone else who is here.

Do you have a problem with party members expressing their opinion on issues or just with those who do not agree with your opinion?

I will be up front and say I do not like the corporate moderate wing of the party they do far more harm than good so expect to see many posts expressing negative opinions towards them and their policies.

Did I post something untruthful?

[graham4anything]

35. No. Wrong message. We need 24 straight years of President Obama

Hillary would have had the same thing happen to her, now it is easier, and longer lasting

I love President Obama's health care.
Because of him, as a self-employed, I was able to transfer with pre-existing and no lifetime cap.
It wasn't possible last year, this year it was

some companies are doing so and its because of the healthcare.

Anyway you slice and dice it, love wins in the end
80-20
peace

let the 20 go around the block and meet each other like Kucinich and Ron Paul are doing Thanks but no thanks to that

Anyone not for President Obama is not for Hillary.
The two are a team.

[graham4anything]

37. When it's 80-20, the 20%whiners will no longer be relevant

so it matters little
the 20% will ironically enough become Ralph Nader and john Anderson and Alf Landon
and Jill Stein and Alex Jones and Orly Taitz and all the others.

meaningless.

because when one preaches hate, matters little which side preaches it, but after awhile
it becomes obvious (should I say Transparency is in ironic, huh?)

Love conquers hate.

BTW-FDR and LBJ were authoritarians you know. So was Teddy Roosevelt.
An authoritarian can be a great liberal (or not).

But the day of confescating quotes, soundbytes, messages is coming to an end.

And poll after poll showed the people want unity and if that means compromise, all the great leaders did.

The people do NOT want extremists on either end, and the republicans got stuck with it.

It's a message people have drowned out since day one.

and until the courts are changed nothing will happen.
And people are wise now to extremists doing the back and forth and attempting to fracture.

[davidpdx]

42. +1

In fact I'd go as far as saying it will bring out more hardcore nuts on the left and right. Some of those on the far left are here in DU.

[Fumesucker]

32. You are *far* to the left of a great many Americans

There's damn few that are advocating a total gun ban, you are one of them.

Then you complain about "extremists".

[graham4anything]

39. But I don't ditch President Obama, Clinton or Clinton, and loved LBJ

I am not a one issue person.

Which is why I love LBJ


It's the old serenity thingydingy.

I know what will be happening.
SO I accept the bad, to get the good

Some people love guns and hate drones
I would rather have no guns, and like as Richard Clarke(whom progressives loved in 2002), drones being the most humane form.

at least I have a 100% plan.

I don't want to tear down what I won in 2008 to go back to the Bush's.

[graham4anything]

41. I am a liberal myself. Liberals are democratic social issues. Have no idea what progressives are

I am proud lifetime member of the Democratic party.
And always will be.
Social issues are what is important.
The rest is the small stuff and I don't sweat it.

[datasuspect]

31. being realistic does not equal cynicism

sometimes knowing what you're up against means you can't see the world through a fog of rainbow colored unicorn farts.

[DCBob]

36. you could also add...

complaining, whining, bitching, moaning and bashing.

[sendero]

38. Those accomplish..

... next to nothing and call it something in a bid to placate morons are no help either.