the 4th grade science test that has gone viral: sad but its true

[rdking647]

this is so sad. a 4th grade science test from a christian school that included such gems as did dinosaurs live with people (true according to them) is true....
so sad that parents would allow their kids to be brainwashed by this crap.

http://www.snopes.com/photos/signs/sciencetest.asp

private religious schools that push this kind of nonsense should be outlawed.

[gopiscrap]

1. Private schools, charter schools and home schooling

should all be outlawed!!!

[hughee99]

5. Amen! I feel bad for the President's children, who must be getting a second rate education

because they're in a private school. What we need to do is force all children into the public school system because I'm sure studies have shown that it is where all children learn best.

[AgingAmerican]

25. Doubt they are being taught that Jesus rode a dinosaur

...or that global warming is a hoax because the ice is melting on Mars...

[hughee99]

34. Who knows? Since the post I'm responding to lumps in all

private, charter and home-school educations together, why not assume they're all substandard compared to a public school education?

[demwing]

90. +100% /nt

[TimberValley]

21. Your proposal sounds like the beginning of a totalitarian society.

Is this still the land of the free?

[KamaAina]

22. Andover should be outlawed?

Okay, maybe its male cheerleading program should be banned.

[NewJeffCT]

65. There are plenty of good private schools out there

including religious ones - and I'm an atheist. I don't know enough about charter schools or home schooling to have an opinion on them, though.

I don't think they should be outlawed, but I do think they should have some sort of standards.

[RebelOne]

141. My daughter is an educator in a charter school,

and she is teaches English and Reading Comprehension. Even if she taught science, there is no way she would instruct students on that anti-science agenda. She is an atheist, as I am.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

149. To paint all home schooling with the same brush as this school is wrong.

It can be far better that public school's even.

[cleanhippie]

2. This is what we deserve when we put religious beliefs on a pedestal and shield it from criticism.

When religious opinions are held sacred above factual scientific data, this is the outcome.

[SunSeeker]

4. +1

[Eleanors38]

7. ^^ You said it.

[Marr]

16. +1

[Initech]

40. Yes yes yes.

[LanternWaste]

106. ame with political and philosophical opinions too...

Same with political and philosophical opinions too... they are given far more weight in the here and now than actual scientific data, and far too many people allow philosophy, politics or religion-- these imaginary constructs which exist no where but our imaginations to control, run and dictate their lives.

[Iggo]

109. Yer goddam right.

[Apophis]

117. + infinity.

[Phillip McCleod]

119. +1 \n

[gcomeau]

3. Sent their kid to a religious school...

...surprised they're being taught unsupported ridiculous magical beliefs instead of fact based scientific conclusions.

Sigh.

[sigmasix]

6. teaching lies in place of science is child abuse

Why do Teabaggers hate America and children so much?

[cleanhippie]

9. They are not teaching lies, they are teaching ignorance.

And teaching ignorance should be a crime.

[snagglepuss]

14. Nail meet hammer.

Welcome to DU

[Buzz Clik]

26. No it is not child abuse.

It's small minded, backward, and ignorant, but abuse? No.

[cleanhippie]

32. It IS abuse. It's indoctrination into a dangerous and ignorant cult.

It's the mental abuse of children.

But I don't expect those who may have been indoctrinated themselves to understand the damage being done. And that is the problem.

[Ter]

35. It's not abuse because they believe it to be true

Science contracts itself all the time. Maybe public school mislead you on some things. The latest thing is teaching fact that the moon was captured in an collision with a Mars-sized planet. No way they could know for sure, they talk out of their ass too much for my tastes.

[cleanhippie]

48. Uhm, okay.

[Ter]

71. If that's the best you've got, it's no wonder you've already lost

n/t

[Lordquinton]

74. Science does not contradict it's self

Scientists come along all the time, and have new theories, some of them get tested and are found to be supported, and those replace the old way of thinking. Some come along with an unproven theory and get media attention before their theory gets reviewed, then when it does get disproved, the media makes a big stink about how awful it is that the scientific method actually works.

We are constantly increasing our knowledge, and as a result, our understanding is constantly being revised.

Contradictions are found in religion, the bible, for example, has tons of them, and they are real contradictions because they are all supposed to be true, and the direct word of God, science has nothing of the sort. There may be conflicting theories, but that stuff gets sorted out.

[cleanhippie]

76. Uhm, okay.

Your post deserves nothing more than that. It's absurd on its face.

Try again with something more intelligent and I'll give you better.

[LiberalAndProud]

91. I'm sure that's a typo.

"contracts" did you mean contradicts or corrects?

just wondering.

One of the differences between religion and science, is that science has mechanisms for self-correction; religion -- not so much.

[MAD Dave]

154. Exactly

Last edited Fri Apr 26, 2013, 11:05 PM - Edit history (1)

Science has mechanisms to correct error. Errors are made everyday and are caught and corrected everyday too. It's the beauty of science.

[Phillip McCleod]

120. there's shades of 'wrong' yes.

but any hotly debated theory (by scientists, not believers) with mountains of evidence is better than..

..gawd put it there.

iow, bill o'reilly is way MORE wrong than an astrophysics seminar. ever been to any? their idea of 'hotly debated' and bill o's are wildly wildly *wildly* different.

[Warpy]

132. The people who burned that baby alive in Chile

thought it was absolutely true that a 5 day old infant was the antichrist.

I suppose that's not abuse, either, since the parents thought it was true.

Working theories that have evidence in their favor (in the case of the Earth-Thea collision case samples of Moon rocks and computer modeling) are taught in the schools. Those that have evidence only from a book of New Stone Age myths are not.

Teaching religion and mislabeling it science is abuse.

[Buzz Clik]

37. Sorry, but you don't get to define "child abuse" based on whatever suits your mood.

According to your definition, I suppose that involvement in religion is a form of child abuse. However, let's be careful just how ridiculous were are in these definitions: the Christians are still in control, and they could easily define raising a child in an atheist household as a form of abuse. Are you prepared for that?

I strongly suggest you stick with that standard, accepted definitions and leave the entire subject to people who know what they are talking about.

[cleanhippie]

50. Neither do you.

And when teaching fact over fiction (science over religion) becomes a problem (which is not "teaching atheism&quot I welcome the debate. Until then, teaching children that te earth is 5000 years old, that fossils are a test from god, and all te other ignorant bullshit that contradicts reality as "the gospel", that is child abuse.

If you want to perpetuate the ignorance and indoctrinate your children into that nonsense, go for it. I'll stick with science and reality.

[Buzz Clik]

52. sigmasix brought it up, not me. Have you read any of this thread at all?

Ok. Enough of you shitty attitude. Back on ignore.

Do you ever contribute anything substantial to any conversation, or is it all like this?

[cleanhippie]

56. I edited. Putting me back on ignore? Now I don't need to read YOUR shitty attitude.

Ignore. Ha! More like putting your head back in the sand so you only hear what you want to hear. That's the same thing these parents are doing to their children by sending them to religious school that teaches more ignorance.

Thanks for making my point. Well done.

[Sirveri]

150. You need to think about what he's saying from a different angle.

You calling it child abuse puts those who are religious on a defensive footing, which makes them much more resistant to change and generally intractable. You won't win any hearts and minds using that style of rhetoric. If your goal is to actually encourage change, you're going about it the wrong way.

Yes, you might think and know in your heart that it's child abuse, or it meets whatever your definition is, that's fine. The point is to convince other people that it's bad, not that it's child abuse.

For instance, female genital integrity campaigners in Africa typically use the term FGC or female genital cutting instead of FGM or female genital mutilation. Why, because they obviously get better traction if they don't tell people that they're mutilated. They might THINK they are, but most people can't handle such a large step, so you baby them into the concept. Once you get them to accept that the practice is wrong, you can then rephrase it to a more hostile term.

[Phillip McCleod]

121. christians *have* defined 'child abuse' that way in some places..

..in these united states.

no, not way back when. now.

..

gotcha.

In several child custody court rulings, atheist parents have been discriminated against, either directly or indirectly. As child custody laws in the United States, are often based on the "best interests of the child" principle, they leave family court judges ample room to consider a parent’s ideology when settling a custody case. Atheism, lack of religious observation and regular church attendance, and the inability to prove one's willingness and capacity to attend to religion with his children, have been used to deny custody to non-religious parents.[70][71]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination_against_atheists

[Buzz Clik]

135. I do not see where atheism is being equated to child abuse.

[eqfan592]

148. "I do not see..." you should have just stopped right there. nt

[Buzz Clik]

152. Oh, zing!

So, you tell me, Einstein -- where in that post does it say anything about child abuse?

[eqfan592]

161. Sorry, but I've had my fill of bandying words with willfully ignorant and obtuse people for one day.

nt

[Buzz Clik]

163. "Bandying words" is the new euphamism for bullshit?

When you make a statement founded on nothing, it's bullshit.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

68. clean, I strongly agree. This IS child abuse.

It is about as bad as teaching kids that if they pray hard enough, they can play on the unlit 70 MPH highway at night, because their prayers will protect them.

[AverageJoe90]

51. It may not be actual child abuse, but does come damn close sometimes, IMO. n/t

[Buzz Clik]

54. Sometimes.

The overlap between ignorance and abuse is not very strong, but I understand your point.

[Brainstormy]

66. don't know where to jump in here, but

I want to check the yes, it IS child abuse box.

[we can do it]

146. It is abuse. Purposely disabling a child who is counting on adults.

[Buzz Clik]

151. Disabling? LOL!

[Warren Stupidity]

156. Know any kids raised this way?

I do. They are permanently crippled.

[Buzz Clik]

159. From foot binding.

Mentally crippled
Psychologically warped
Academically stunted
Socially challenged
Ergonomically unfriendly
Ecologically unsustainable

I've got a million of 'em. None as bizarre as yours, however.

[we can do it]

164. I do too. They are crippled. Both in critical thinking and how the world works.

[Warren Stupidity]

155. It is the mental equivalent of foot binding.

Yes it is abuse.

[Buzz Clik]

158. Is this some odd game?

You guys are competing to see who can make the most asinine comment?

You're winning.

[TimberValley]

8. It should remain perfectly legal. Freedom of religion/speech. nt.

[ZombieHorde]

11. I agree, but that school should not legally count as school.

Just like me standing on the sidewalk and yelling crazy shit at people who pass by should not count as school.

[Phillip McCleod]

122. hee hee. i can see it now..

.. ..

(cue the harps and fade to vaseline-lens of ZombieHorde in high school)

[TheMadMonk]

18. NO! You are free to believe whatever you want. You should not be free to force...

...those beliefs on others. This includes your own children.

[TimberValley]

24. So parents can't raise their children in a particular religious upbringing?

Charismatic, Pentacostal, Catholic, Protestant, Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist?

[mike_c]

28. they should not be, IMO....

The only way to stamp out superstition and willful ignorance is to break the chain of transmission with education. If parents are not willing to do that themselves, then they are not fit to raise children IMO.

[demwing]

84. And you are welcome to your opinion

just don't confuse yourself with the belief that your opinion has more value than any other opinion

[TheMadMonk]

41. By example, yes. By indoctrination, NO!

BTW: You conveniently managed to forget a couple of Orthodox flavours of Christianity and several more unorthodox, as well as Shinto, Confucianism, Budhism, Judasim, Islam, Taoism, several varieties of polytheism and totemism, ancestor worship, Voudun, Rasta&Pastafarian, Jedi, plus several more I don't have names for.

[rhett o rick]

160. Why dont you state your argument in the form of a statement in lieu

of a half-assed question? No one stated that they dont want parents to raise their children in a particulat upbringing. However, society should have the right to require that all children be given a basic, decent education and that does not include witch-craft.
If you want to teach your children witch-craft or other hocus pocus, more power to you. But they must be taught the basics.

[demwing]

92. and what would you do to prevent this? /nt

[Phillip McCleod]

123. i agree that we *should not* as parents be indoctrinating..

.. or as the euphemism goes, 'raising', our kids in a particular religion.

at times during my own sons' upbringing i believed, at other times i doubted, called myself agnostic, or hid from the topic. i've been atheist again for more than a decade and have had many conversations about religious belief with them, but never once ..

.. NOT *ONCE* ..

.. did i *tell* them what to believe, or tell them 'this is true, and everything else is a falsehood sent to test your faith (or lack of)'

if each person is to exercise free will and free conscience, then they must feel free to do so. indoctrination can and too often does snuff that out at an early age.

*that* is child abuse.

[Bosonic]

38. They should be forced to remove any mention of science from future tests

None of those answers are the product of the scientific method.

[Angelonthesidelines]

73. Yes, perfectly legal they shall remain

I have no problem with parents raising their children on wrong subjects.

I do have a large problem with vouchers paying for these idiot academies.

[Apophis]

82. Wow.

Purposely teaching children false information should NOT be protected under the First Amendment.

I don't care if it's their stupid-ass belief. It's still wrong.

[demwing]

85. that's _your_ belief

Does it only apply to the test above, or would you have all religion criminalized?

[Apophis]

87. How can anyone condone this?

Teaching impressionable minds this kind of false information should be outlawed.

[demwing]

88. Again, just the above example, or should all religious teaching be criminalized? /nt

[Apophis]

95. If I seem to recall, and correct me if I'm wrong,

doesn't the bible teach people not to lie? Or purposely deceive? Or are the people who teach children false information hypocrites?

It should be criminalized to teach children false information like the test above. If they want to learn that crap when they're adults, that's fine.

You aren't going to change my mind on this issue.

[demwing]

97. I don't care to change your mind

but you are avoiding the question. Are you saying that all religious teaching should be criminalized? Yes, or no?

If no, then which teaching are criminal, and which are not? What's the process for deciding?

if yes, just say so.

[Apophis]

98. Teaching children the misinformation on the test should be illegal.

No to all religious teachings. If adults want to believe the nonsense, that's their prerogative.

[demwing]

103. interesting that that was your 666th post !`

lol

but thanks for clarifying.

Needless to say I think you're wrong, and that this type of invasion into the relationship between parents and their children is fucking dangerous. You scare me as much as the religious fundies.

[Apophis]

112. Giving kids that misinformation is dangerous.

It won't get them into any accredited colleges and they'll be ignorant when it comes to how scientific knowledge is disseminated in the real world.

I'm not the horrible person here. The parents are.

[Phillip McCleod]

126. religious education is one thing, indoctrination into a particular religion another.

yes, indoctrinating children into a particular religion should be against the law in any 'educational' institution in the u.s., by definition of 'educational institution'. they can call themselves 'sunday-monday-tue-wed-thur-fri-sat' schools if they want to hold classes for religious indoctrination 7 days a week, but the children should *by law* be required to attend an school or utilize a home-school curriculum that includes secular material only.

clear enough?

[Niceguy1]

131. why?

Both my daughters go to a Catholic school and I never hsve seen stuff like this. And the education they are receiving is far better than the public school down the street.

[we can do it]

147. Freedom of speech is not teaching lies to children who have no choice.

One more reason against vouchers.

You are free to believe in sky daddy, just don't push that BS on innocent minds.

[Capt. Obvious]

10. When they get to college they learn about electricity

[dballance]

13. You Hit on My Thoughts Exactly. They'll Be So Far Behind Other Students in College

Not all of these kids are going to go to Liberty University or one of the other religious whack-job colleges. So when they get to a real school, a secular one that teaches actual science, they're going to be lost. They're going to be so far behind the kids that were taught in secular schools they might not be able to catch up. Or, they might want to cling tightly to the BS they've been taught and challenge the college professors about what the professor is teaching. They won't be getting any passing grades for that.

[Initech]

49. Any electrical engineer would laugh in your face if said that.

But that it's in a textbook????

[SalviaBlue]

12. "Were you there?"

Holy shit!

[Occulus]

78. The only possible answer to that question is "Yes, I was."

Let them deal with that.

[ohheckyeah]

94. Which reply begs the question...

were THEY there? Are they seriously suggesting we can only understand science, or history for that matter, if we were there?

Holy shit is right.

[MattBaggins]

124. So about that zombie dude

Were you there when he supposedly came back to life?

[ohheckyeah]

144. Why yes, yes I was.

I look really young for my age.

[Politicub]

15. This works against the fundie indoctrination

Once most of these kids are old enough to experience the world on their own, they're going to quickly learn they have been fed a pack of lies.

And if these so-called Christians are lying about something so basic, the kids will wonder if any of it was true.

Thus the rise of the nones.

[Phillip McCleod]

127. true there's plenty of atheists..

..who used to be fundies.

[Marr]

17. That is child abuse.

If filling a kid's head with provably false nonsense-- giving them a completely fictional sense of who, what, where and when they are-- isn't child abuse, then I don't know what is.

[demwing]

86. you're right: "then I don't know what is." /nt

[Marr]

102. How would you feel if someone raised their child to believe it's the year 2350

...and they'll be getting a job on the Enterprise once they finish their Starfleet homeschooling program?

[demwing]

104. I 'd think they were pretty foolish, but not abusive /nt

[Marr]

107. Well, we disagree then.

Filling a child's head with that brand of nonsense would, I expect, strike most people as profound child abuse.

[demwing]

110. Considering that the vast majority of the country

and the work, is religious?

Yeah, we disagree.

[Marr]

118. Wait-- is the "vast majority" of Christianity evolution-denying fundamentalists or not?

This seems to shift according to the argument.

If we're talking about a certain stripe of religious lunatics and bigots, we're regularly assured that they're only a tiny minority of the population. But now you're telling me these ridiculous, fundamentalist teachings are embraced by the majority of the country, and therefore "normal".

I don't think these views are held by a majority of Americans, much less a vast majority.

[demwing]

125. No shift

I just responded to your "most people" comment.

"Most people" are religious, and though some number of those may disagree with that ridiculous test, I do not believe they would agree that the teaching is child abuse.

[Phillip McCleod]

128. as is often the case with 'most people'..

..

they're fucking wrong.

[demwing]

153. In the question at hand

right and wrong is irrelevant. The question was whether most people would agree on the OP's definition of child abuse. Most people--right or wrong--would not agree.

[gollygee]

19. Not only can they teach that

There are areas where religious schools are run on taxpayer money, as charter schools. So we (or the people in that state) can pay for kids to be taught that!

We are devolving and this is one of the reasons why.

[Dash87]

20. I was there and dinosaurs didn't exist. Liars!

[Buzz Clik]

23. That test is beyond bizarre. But interestingly enough...

... one of the most brilliant geneticists I have ever known was a graduate of Bob Jones University.

[Ikonoklast]

42. And two of the dumbest attorneys I've ever met came from Liberty.

Anecdote, data, and all that.

There are always outliers in every set.

[Buzz Clik]

47. Liberty granted Sean Hannity an honorary doctorate. They are clearly idiots.

Just saying that the picture of half a page of a science test from one fundie school is not much to go on when condemning all private schools with a religious base.

[Phillip McCleod]

129. and neither is some supposedly brilliant but unnamed geneticist.

again.. shades of 'wrong'.

[Buzz Clik]

136. You want to see his resume?

[mike_c]

30. OMG....

An insane person. See my sig:

[Enrique]

29. if Snopes hadn't checked it out I wouldn't have believed it

unbelievable, and what I want to know now is are they allowed to do this? Are there any standards whatsoever?

[HereSince1628]

36. Yes, it's hard to believe people would want to do this to their kids.

They are going to embarrass the hell out of themselves on Cash Cab!!!!

I've not seen Young Earth or Intelligent Design as a Jeopardy category either.

[TimberValley]

31. As a Christian, I agree with the answers on the test. nt.

[Enrique]

43. i don't believe you

I think some people might believe the answers, for example some of the children. But not the teachers, not most of the parents, and not you.

[TimberValley]

44. But I do believe it. nt.

[truebrit71]

55. You believe that man lived amongst dinosaurs and the earth is only 6000 years old...

....Really?

[TimberValley]

59. I'm not sure about 6,000 years old, but I do believe 10,000 years or younger. nt.

[cleanhippie]

62. Believing it to be true doesn't make it so, and believing in the fact of contrary facts...

Makes one willfully ignorant, and that is the worst kind of all.

[truebrit71]

64. Wow..

[No Vested Interest]

67. Respectfully, what is the source for your belief?

(BTW, I am a practicing Christian.)

[Occulus]

79. He's dead, Jim

Troll is no longer with us.

[HangOnKids]

81. Thank God!

He was so obvious from day one.

[Apophis]

99. Yay! The stupid RW troll is gone!

[SalviaBlue]

45. I hope you are not a science teacher.

or any kind of teacher for that matter.

[Ikonoklast]

46. You believe religious dogma trumps reality?

The physical world must hold lots of horrible surprises for you.

[cleanhippie]

60. You can agree all you want, but you will continue to be wrong and wilfully ignorant.

Good luck with that.

[mercymechap]

72. I'm a Christian too, and I don't agree with

the answers on the test. While I don't believe that this test can be used to gauge the teachings at all Christian schools, I do know that some Christians have disregarded science and have come up with ideas that are not supported by facts or the Bible. The idea that the earth is less than 10,000 years old is ridiculous and not accepting that does not make you a reprobate.

[Apophis]

83. You're part of the problem in this country.

I don't see how anyone can believe humans walked with dinosaurs when there's mountains of evidence showing otherwise. It's just stupid to believe that.

Way to remain ignorant. I suggest you go to college and learn something.

[Ter]

33. Outlawed?

It's a private school, deal with it. Should telling kids Santa is real also be outlawed? I really can't take it anymore with so many here calling for new laws every day.

[Buzz Clik]

39. +1!

[sammytko]

58. agree!! n/t

[cleanhippie]

63. Chil abuse is a crime. This is child abuse.

[Ter]

70. And this is why Republicans win elections

If we didn't say things like this and banning plastic bags and Happy Meals, I'm convinced we would have 85% majorities in both Houses and Governors.

[cleanhippie]

75. Republicans win because there are those like yourself that would prefer we ignore reality

and give religious beliefs special privilege.

I detest willfully ignorance. I see you don't.

[Phillip McCleod]

133. +1

[eqfan592]

162. +1000000 nt

[Occulus]

80. If the bible gives the value of pi = 3, as I understand it does,

then teaching it as fact is an actual danger to ALL OF US, should any such fools taught that it is true enter any position of any architectural or engineering responsibility.

Shit like this should be banned as the very real danger it is.

[muriel_volestrangler]

115. It should be illegal to deliberately teach lies and call yourself a 'school'

Various professions have standards that you have to show you can pass before you are allowed to practice them. Teaching should be one of them. If they can't teach, they should just be called 'child minders'.

[Phillip McCleod]

130. telling kids santa is real is WAY WAY different than telling them god is real.

for one thing.. eventually the parents admit they LIED.

[proud2BlibKansan]

53. Of course it's true.

I don't understand why anyone would doubt it.

[ZRT2209]

57. that test is an obscenity

[adieu]

61. Home schooling should definitely be disallowed.

As for charter and private schools, they should be accredited, like every other school.

But the real important issue is why such information should be taught in school in the first place? Whether one knows that dinosaurs were around from 165 million BC to 65 million BC or not is not really pertinent to day-to-day living. One can go through one's life full of richness and happiness without ever even knowing that dinosaurs existed, never mind when they existed.

It would be better if schools taught a method of analyzing information, so that whether you're getting information about dinosaurs or witches or black holes or whatever, you have a system to analyze the "truthiness" of the statements.

Giving tidbits like "dinosaurs roamed the earth 4000 years ago" is like giving a person a fish (in this case, a very small, inedible fish). Giving people a method to analyze information given to them is like teaching them how to fish.

[The Straight Story]

77. Like hell.

Anyone who wants to ban home schools is not a friend of either freedom or progressives - but they do love having others control their lives. I never understood people wanting others to make choices for them (from abortion to what bar you drink at to what soda pops you can buy).

But hey, if you think a few people sitting around in congress are smarter than you and should make choices for you in your life just say so - but leave the rest of us alone.

[Phillip McCleod]

134. i don't oppose home schooling but curriculum should be regulated.

that is, home school curriculum must be secular in nature and not religious indoctrination, or the child will have to supplement with school attendance.

sunday school is not school, no matter how it's dressed up.

[demwing]

89. thankfully, you don't make the home schooling rules

as it appears your bias gets in the way or your reason

[adieu]

93. Bias is well founded

Most parents are not good teachers. Most parents know very little about the various subjects. Kids also need to learn how to interact with other kids. I've met numerous families who home school their kids. More harm than good. Not very well-adjusted kids. And these are the non-kooky home schooled kids. I'm not talking about those who teach creationism or what-not.

[demwing]

96. My personal experience trumps your personal experience

because my experience is first hand. I home schooled my children all the way through middle school. They are not kooks, nor have they ever had an issue interacting with other kids. Both graduated with honors, one is a computer tech, the other going off to college in August. I've known and interacted with scores of families that home school, and most of them had nothing to do with using the process as a means of teaching religion.

You bias is not well founded.

[Apophis]

100. Agreed.

[Phillip McCleod]

138. i don't think it should be outlawed, but curriculum should be secular.

if parents want their children to receive extracurricular religious indoctrination that's different. and of course allowance should be made for secular religious education.. about a *variety* of religions, dead and living, to better understand their role in history, anthropology, psychology, etc..

but home-schooling one's kids that people rode dinosaurs?

no, if that's what parents want to teach, then by law their children should be required to attend a secular primary educational institution.

[RedstDem]

69. ill be retired and these fourth graders will be running the country

Scared!

[Phillip McCleod]

139. not if my H.S. Junior has anything to say about it!

.. which knowing him.. he will.

[Alva Goldbook]

101. This is what you call child abuse.

Intentionally making children stupid based upon your delusions is cruel, and destroys the potential of children. That is child abuse.

[demwing]

105. that's your opinion

and I'm glad Holder is in charge of Justice, and not you.

[Alva Goldbook]

108. So you're saying that it's okay to lie to children?

It's okay to intentionally make them stupid?

[demwing]

111. Some "lies" are harmless

Santa is a good example. I also disagree that teaching a child your religious tradition makes them stupid.

And neither is "abuse"

[Alva Goldbook]

114. We're not talking about religious tradition now, are we?

We're talking about teaching children in a science class that the earth is 6,000 years old and that the Flintstones was a documentary.

[cleanhippie]

142. Teaching ones child about ones relgion is one thing, brainwashing them to believe nonsense is anothe

There is a wide gulf between the education about religion and the indoctrination into a religion. From your posts, it seems you do no understand that there is a difference, and that difference is what the point is.

[Apophis]

113. THIS.

[Douglas Carpenter]

116. As Frank Schaeffer described it - "The home school and Christian school movement are creating the

fifth column of the insane."

[GoneOffShore]

145. Home schoolers on DU about to smite you in 3...2....1

[Pisces]

137. I guess you can't legislate stupid. There will be a lot of kids who will not have clue one about

science when they grow up. We are raising a class of ignorant people in our society.

[cleanhippie]

143. Not just ignorant, WILFULLY ignorant. And that should be a crime.

[Brimley]

140. Statement from Sarah Palin

"Well Todd and I are thrilled that the Mavericky teacher who wrote this test was not intimidated by those lamestream 'scientists' with their 'knowledge' and 'facts' but instead chose to teach the Lord's Truth to these kids in defiance of President Obama's plan to turn our children into Muslim Atheist Socialist gay people who can't have kids out of wedlock like my Bristol did God Bless Her youbetcha!"

[freshwest]

157. Tools to create the dystopias of Huxley and Wells.

The decanting of fetuses cited in Huxley's Brave New World to create permanent societal castes is no longer required. Media is now the greatest teacher and millions want this to be reality.

Non-scientific, non-logical education will produce the Gammas, Deltas and Epsilons who will not be questioning what their lives are. This is part of the war on women. Don't need the hatcheries if women cannot control their own bodies, they will be incubators.

Those that embrace higher education will be the Alphas and Betas, who rule over those who are willing to slide into the lower castes. This is not going to be their educational route.

Dystopia was held off by those with Utopian visions promoting socialism and equality, but this could be the future. How close is the tipping point at which we come to believe there is no hope for equality and blindfully assume these roles?

Or will we support the kind of plans Obama is working on and that many want to save our educational system and provide society mobility and equality?

It's up to us, in the end, which vision we support. RWers support a society based on patronage rewarded by their connections and theocracy. This is a perfect vehicle for it. They want a nation without any of the plans Demcrats work on daily to fight this caste system.

Just my humble opinion.