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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums"Obama is going to be reluctant to publicize chemical evidence for fear it traps them in a corner."
For all of those outstanding reasons the Obama White House is still categorically unwilling to say the line has been crossed. It will probably continue to insist that until it has new and firm evidence. What looms above this is fear of the Iraq example and the fear of undertaking some sort of precipitous action on the basis of that later turns out to have been embellished or fabricated.
It was a mistake to set the red line if they were not willing to act on it. There is a certain amount of leeway they have, but leeway is shrinking by the day ... If this evidence turns out to be solid if it turns out to be attributed to the regime itself it may turn out to be the case that this was an act of testing those red lines by using small scale attacks.
If they continue to dodge these questions and they continue to set the bar so high that the evidence for chemical weapons use can never be conclusively demonstrated, then it will have been a grave mistake, because it will have been shown that red lines can be transgressed without any consequences. Which means that other red lines and further violations become more likely. He [Obama] should not have set it, if it was a bluff.
It is absolutely important that the evidence receives a very high degree of scrutiny and the public is able to see that process play out. I would like to see that evidence publicised and made clearer. But the administration is going to be reluctant to do that for fear that it traps them into corner, but I think it is the only way forwards.
http://audioboo.fm/boos/1354260-obama-was-wrong-to-set-red-line-on-syria-s-chemical-weapons-if-he-doesn-t-act-on-it-says-shashj.mp3 (5-minute audio file)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/middle-east-live/2013/apr/26/syria-chemical-weapons-red-line-live
Interesting the Obama, like Bush, may be reluctant to publicize evidence, but for the opposite reason. Bush was reluctant for fear that it would eviserate his case for invading Iraq. Obama may be reluctant for fear it will trap him in his own words.
I am sure there are many that want the evidence "receive a very high degree of scrutiny and the public is able to see that process play out" (as never happened in Iraq - no outside experts ever agreed that Saddam had WMD) in the belief that will prove that no gas attack happened. I understand the administration's fear that relying on a group of "experts" to determine the "facts" leaves them vulnerable. If an attack is determined to have happened, do you back down ("Just kidding about that whole 'red line' thing. It sounded like the right thing to say at the time. Go ahead and do whatever you want. But in the future when I say something I really, really mean it." or be pressured to show that you mean what you say.
The interviewee in this audio clip has for a long time been cautioning against drawing 'red lines' in the confrontation with Iran and is now applying the same principle to Syria.
I think that 'bluffing' has been a part of foreign relations (and of life in general) since the beginning of time. You often are not sure if someone really means what they say or are just saying it for effect.
I suppose it would have been more honest of Obama to say to Assad in March, "We think you should not gas your own people, but if you do that is your call." Of course, that might attract the attention of other dictators. Today it seems that many repressive regimes look to having nuclear weapons as the best protection from outside interference with their divine rule. The new 'Assad rule' may be that chemical weapons (much cheaper and easier to get) are an equally good insurance policy against outside support for pesky domestic demonstrators.
brooklynite
(94,331 posts)I know it's true; I read it on DU.
razorman
(1,644 posts)just admit that it's none of our damned business. We have no more business going into Syria than we did Iraq. High-stakes matters like these are instances where you should NEVER bluff. If you bluff, and are called on it just once, your word is then worthless.
bigtree
(85,974 posts). . . all of that speculating, on and on, completely ignoring the unreliability of reports like this.
Is it too much to ask that we actually have clear and incontrovertible evidence of chemical weapon use by the Assad regime before making it into some contest or test of Obama's will or candor?
mark seibel ?@markseibel 9h
Evidence of sarin use in #Syria far from certain; 'low or moderate' confidence, say intel sources http://m.mcclatchydc.com/dc/db_112235/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=ScyMDwCz
pampango
(24,692 posts)"clear and incontrovertible evidence of chemical weapon use by the Assad regime" would either call his bluff or force him to do something he is trying very hard not to do. As long as evidence is unreliable and confidence in it is "low to moderate" Obama has a lot of wiggle room.
All sides (including Russia and even Assad - with conditions) are calling for an investigation on the ground in Syria. While the Syrian government has been resisting the entrance of a UN investigation team, it may happen - depending on how much pressure Putin wants to put on Assad. As evidence becomes more reliable and the confidence level increases, Obama's wiggle room may decrease dramatically.
If you do not wish to engage in hypothetical scenarios that is fine. I think this article is as much about Obama's current attitude and reservations about events in Syria as it is a prediction of what direction events might take.
veganlush
(2,049 posts)But the information must be vetted.
BeyondGeography
(39,345 posts)Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)but is desperate to avoid war. It's good to have grown-ups in charge.
global1
(25,224 posts)I asked this question yesterday and got few responses. So I'm including it here under this post.
I'm wondering if Hagel jumped the gun and mentioned chemical weapons use in Syria before he got it cleared to say that from the White House. Did he speak out of turn? Did he put President Obama in a pickle because he spoke before he was told by the WH that he was able to say that?
Here's the link to the few responses I received yesterday to see what the thinking was: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022756191
Again - if Hagel was speaking with the ok from the White House - then it was the WH that put themselves in the bind that the President is in now.
Something isn't adding up right to me. I can't figure out why the President would set a red line and then let himself be boxed in kind of like he is now given the situation.
Any thoughts?