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Logical

(22,457 posts)
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 08:54 PM Apr 2013

Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was unarmed in the boat! So why in the hell did they say.....

they "exchanged gunfire" and why did they shoot like 30 bullets at the boat?

It always seems like when one cop hear another cop fire they all tend to all unload their guns.

I doubt we will ever know the whole story. And I am not too worried about Dzhokhar Tsarnaev getting shot but I am about the next unarmed suspect who might not be the real suspect.

Story.....
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/24/boston-bombing-suspect-unarmed_n_3150723.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

55 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was unarmed in the boat! So why in the hell did they say..... (Original Post) Logical Apr 2013 OP
I'm not sure but it sounds like mercymechap Apr 2013 #1
How dare you come in this thread and post sentiments that are nearly TheDebbieDee Apr 2013 #2
LOL, yes, because their plan to take him alive included shooting the boat full of holes.... Logical Apr 2013 #3
Did any bystanders get killed? mercymechap Apr 2013 #54
Listen to the tape malaise Apr 2013 #19
They did the "Police Officers! Come out with your hands up!" thing.... Honeycombe8 Apr 2013 #4
I think it was panic fire. n-t Logical Apr 2013 #8
Apparently they used rubber bullets.. HipChick Apr 2013 #11
Wow, did not know that. They can put a hole in the boat? n-t Logical Apr 2013 #13
These look like impact points, not bullet holes, to me. randome Apr 2013 #17
Wrong color. X_Digger Apr 2013 #31
The cover would be easier to make a hole in, wouldn't it? Rubber bullet or no. randome Apr 2013 #32
Not really, no. Rubber bullets sting, but they won't even penetrate clothes. X_Digger Apr 2013 #39
Look at this post...I was also listening to the police scanner and heard them call for rubber bullet HipChick Apr 2013 #43
Get ready for a shitload of DU.... NYC_SKP Apr 2013 #5
I am sure you are right. The "exchanged gunfire" part was basically a lie. n-t Logical Apr 2013 #9
Not basically....... It was a lie newmember Apr 2013 #30
Oh, you took a dandy bashing, newmember! NYC_SKP Apr 2013 #34
Thanks , I'm fine newmember Apr 2013 #37
A lot of people were fine with post-9/11 retribution, too. NYC_SKP Apr 2013 #41
Do we know that the bomber pnwmom Apr 2013 #53
Who said they exchanged gunfire? I saw reports that the earlier conflict Honeycombe8 Apr 2013 #33
Maybe because they suspected him of having explosives? Matariki Apr 2013 #6
But why shoot up the boat? If you are going to kill him because of explosives then just..... Logical Apr 2013 #7
How would they have known he was unarmed? Matariki Apr 2013 #10
No one has confirmed the rubber bullets part yet. n-t Logical Apr 2013 #15
another ridiculous theory newmember Apr 2013 #35
You're still ignoring the evidence that DUers listening to scanners heard 'No live ammo'. randome Apr 2013 #36
How about this? Dyedinthewoolliberal Apr 2013 #49
I don't disagree that the police can be WAY too trigger happy Matariki Apr 2013 #12
Cop said "he saw a hand come out with an object in it." Life Long Dem Apr 2013 #14
OK, that makes sense. But that whole everyone emptying guns deal happens a lot. n-t Logical Apr 2013 #18
The Object Hand of DOOM! alcibiades_mystery Apr 2013 #21
Also, they said he tried to commit suicide by shooting himself in the mouth. Cleita Apr 2013 #16
Other reports said the neck injury was a knife injury. n-t Logical Apr 2013 #22
Actually the SWAT team that took him into custody said it *looked* like a knife wound magellan Apr 2013 #47
Just a guess... wercal Apr 2013 #20
Is cover fire into the ground or something? n-t Logical Apr 2013 #23
Usually right over their head.... wercal Apr 2013 #25
Thanks for the info! n-t Logical Apr 2013 #26
You're about to head down Epistemology Trail alcibiades_mystery Apr 2013 #24
LOL, I have no idea what your post meant. n-t Logical Apr 2013 #28
Hey, you can just take those fancy words over to FOX NEWS!!!! NYC_SKP Apr 2013 #42
I know why!!!!!!!! Heather MC Apr 2013 #27
Another question - did they KNOW it was him and not a homeless guy needing a refuge? elfin Apr 2013 #29
The boat owner reported a bleeding man in his boat. Just outside the perimeter of the search. kwassa Apr 2013 #40
Boston residents were mercymechap Apr 2013 #55
Here's what we got by my count: Skip Intro Apr 2013 #38
Bonus points for working the Glenn Beck Saudi angle in geek tragedy Apr 2013 #45
Pondering events = Glen Beck time? Skip Intro Apr 2013 #50
The truth is the truth, eh? geek tragedy Apr 2013 #51
Remember the MOVE fiasco in Philly? Recursion Apr 2013 #44
Having lived close enough to the MOVE event to be able to hear the sirens JoePhilly Apr 2013 #46
I just meant cops "taking fire" from what turned out to be other cops (nt) Recursion Apr 2013 #48
Do you know he didn't toss one of those homemade hand grenades pnwmom Apr 2013 #52

mercymechap

(579 posts)
1. I'm not sure but it sounds like
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 08:58 PM
Apr 2013

you are dissatisfied with the way it was handled? I don't think the cops knew if he still had a bomb and I don't know that they should have approached him without knowing that he was disabled. The two idiots did enough damage, we didn't need any more cops being victims, and if they had killed him I wouldn't be grieving for him.

 

Logical

(22,457 posts)
3. LOL, yes, because their plan to take him alive included shooting the boat full of holes....
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 09:02 PM
Apr 2013

for no reason. I bet you also are 100% sure they knew no bullet would kill an innocent bystander.

mercymechap

(579 posts)
54. Did any bystanders get killed?
Fri Apr 26, 2013, 12:56 AM
Apr 2013

Would you have volunteered to go and "fetch" him out of the boat? Hmmmmm.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
4. They did the "Police Officers! Come out with your hands up!" thing....
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 09:06 PM
Apr 2013

When a suspected murderer doesn't come out after being warned, the police have to go get 'em, the first concern being that no officers or civilians get hurt. If they had wanted to kill him, they would have. So much gunfire, I'm wondering if it was to scare him into coming out.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
17. These look like impact points, not bullet holes, to me.
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 09:19 PM
Apr 2013

Some described the boat as 'swiss cheese'. Swiss cheese has holes and I don't think this picture shows holes.

X_Digger

(18,585 posts)
31. Wrong color.
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 09:56 PM
Apr 2013

Having shot rubber bullets before, they leave a black smudge, and smell like tires.

Yes, those are holes in fiberglass.

Look at the hole in the cover on the left.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
32. The cover would be easier to make a hole in, wouldn't it? Rubber bullet or no.
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 10:00 PM
Apr 2013

And I would think live ammo would go THROUGH the fiberglass, not just make a mark. But I'm no ammo expert.

X_Digger

(18,585 posts)
39. Not really, no. Rubber bullets sting, but they won't even penetrate clothes.
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 10:21 PM
Apr 2013

They certainly don't penetrate a boat hull.

Those are holes in the hull, you can see the white edges of the gelcoat beneath the red.

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
5. Get ready for a shitload of DU....
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 09:07 PM
Apr 2013

"why are you so concerned for this bomber terrorist"

"why do you hate Boston?"

"why are you siding with the haterperp?"

NB: "haterperp" was actually used in another OP representative of the odd sorts of reactions to any posts that suggest that the cops might have, well, shot a lot of bullets into the boat without as much reason as one would like.

Refer to this: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022751025



 

newmember

(805 posts)
37. Thanks , I'm fine
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 10:16 PM
Apr 2013

The funny thing about my thread was I know most people posting in it believed exactly what I said in it.

But for some strange reason don't want to admit it.

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
41. A lot of people were fine with post-9/11 retribution, too.
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 10:23 PM
Apr 2013

We're all just human.

It's entertaining, actually, to catch others and ourselves being, well, fallible.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
53. Do we know that the bomber
Fri Apr 26, 2013, 12:41 AM
Apr 2013

didn't toss another little bomb from the boat?

One of those homemade hand grenades he'd been tossing at the police earlier?

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
33. Who said they exchanged gunfire? I saw reports that the earlier conflict
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 10:01 PM
Apr 2013

involved an exchange of gunfire, but not with the 2nd. Although they may have reported that...early reports of incidents always contain some errors before the dust settles.

 

Logical

(22,457 posts)
7. But why shoot up the boat? If you are going to kill him because of explosives then just.....
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 09:10 PM
Apr 2013

have the helicopter shoot the heat image?

Matariki

(18,775 posts)
10. How would they have known he was unarmed?
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 09:14 PM
Apr 2013

He'd already been involved in a shootout with police. Maybe they weren't taking any chances.

Anyway, weren't they using rubber bullets and stun grenades to disorient him?

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
36. You're still ignoring the evidence that DUers listening to scanners heard 'No live ammo'.
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 10:12 PM
Apr 2013

Instead, you insist on your own 'evidence', which is...non-existent.

Dyedinthewoolliberal

(15,485 posts)
49. How about this?
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 11:59 PM
Apr 2013

Which seems perfectly reasonable; "Come out with your hands up!" or some variation thereof. Nowadays it seems (seems I repeat) that the LEO's just shoot first and ask questions later..........

Matariki

(18,775 posts)
12. I don't disagree that the police can be WAY too trigger happy
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 09:16 PM
Apr 2013

Especially things like drug raids on the wrong house that ends with someone dead.

But it seems they handled the thing in Boston pretty well.

 

Life Long Dem

(8,582 posts)
14. Cop said "he saw a hand come out with an object in it."
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 09:18 PM
Apr 2013

It appears as if Dzhokhar Tsarnaev did not have a gun in the boat. So how did the shooting start there?

The issue goes to what the police were perceiving. One officer had the high ground and saw the tarp on the boat flip up and said he saw a hand come out with an object in it. He didn't think it was a gun, he thought Tsarnaev was about to throw another bomb. He fired a couple times.

Other officers who were just arriving, saw the tarp flip up and heard gun fire and apparently believed it was Tsarnaev firing out, so they laid down covering fire at that boat until the incident commander said cease fire.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57581048/police-believe-tsarnaev-brothers-killed-officer-for-his-gun/

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
16. Also, they said he tried to commit suicide by shooting himself in the mouth.
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 09:18 PM
Apr 2013

How could he do that if he didn't have a gun?

magellan

(13,257 posts)
47. Actually the SWAT team that took him into custody said it *looked* like a knife wound
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 11:40 PM
Apr 2013

...but said it was possibly a shrapnel wound:

COOPER: There's a report that he was shot in the throat. Unclear whether that was self-inflicted, or at what point -- could you tell that?

CAMPBELL: I did see a throat injury. To me it looked more like a knife wound. It wasn't a puncture hole. It was a slice where it was spread open, possibly a piece of shrapnel from one of the explosives that they were using the night before. It didn't look like a bullet wound to me. It looked more like a cut of some kind.

http://election.democraticunderground.com/10022739227

wercal

(1,370 posts)
20. Just a guess...
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 09:20 PM
Apr 2013

Covering fire.

I saw a night vision video of 3 flash grenades being thrown into the boat.

Whoever threw them was obviously very close to the boat. How did he get there? He probably sprinted to his position, while the police were firing.

wercal

(1,370 posts)
25. Usually right over their head....
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 09:29 PM
Apr 2013

Or where the head would be, if they were trying to see/observe what is going on around them.

That's Army training at least.

I have no idea if the police use a different tactic, considering surrounding houses, etc.

 

alcibiades_mystery

(36,437 posts)
24. You're about to head down Epistemology Trail
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 09:28 PM
Apr 2013
How do you know what it was like? Were you there?

No. I'm going by published reports.

Well what about unpublished reports? You don't have those, do you?

No, actually. Just the public statements and reports.

But you don't have all the published reports? You haven't read the newspaper from rural Mongolia, have you?

No. Just the published reports that have been widely distributed and that I've seen.

So you don't really know do you?

Fine. I have limited knowledge. But why do you believe the opposite?

Oh, who cares? It doesn't matter anyway so that's why!

--------------SNIP-----------------

It's all very astonishing.

elfin

(6,262 posts)
29. Another question - did they KNOW it was him and not a homeless guy needing a refuge?
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 09:47 PM
Apr 2013

Probably a logical assumption on their part, but what if it had been a hapless vagrant?

I understand they were panicked and in revenge mode after losing Sean Collier, but am disturbed by the reports thus far.

Am glad he is in custody and expect full punishment for his heinous acts, but wonder if his throat injury that prevents full communication was indeed self inflicted or as a result of his capture. Perhaps from earlier fire fight?

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
40. The boat owner reported a bleeding man in his boat. Just outside the perimeter of the search.
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 10:22 PM
Apr 2013

The odds of a bleeding homeless man in a boat ... not great.

mercymechap

(579 posts)
55. Boston residents were
Fri Apr 26, 2013, 01:06 AM
Apr 2013

given a "stay safe - stay inside" alert. Any hapless vagrant wondering about after they were told to stay inside would have no one to blame but himself if he had been foolish enough to wander into an area swarming with cops, and FBI and had been hurt.

Skip Intro

(19,768 posts)
38. Here's what we got by my count:
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 10:16 PM
Apr 2013

A terrorist bombing.

AA planes grounded nationwide.

A Saudi person of interest, on a terrorist watch list, first to be detained now set to be deported for security reasons.

Ricin letters to a select few.

Ricin perp arrested.

Canada busts Al Qaeda plot to bomb train servicing NY.

Two Russians accused and subdued, one now dead, one now living.

There were shots, there weren't shots.

Ricin perp released, charged dropped.

Brothers had an arsenal, they didn't have a single gun.

Brothers had plan to hit Times Square.

The reason for these kinds of contradictions is because we aren't being told the truth to begin with. Meanwhile, CISPA sails, Paul talks drones, and Bloomberg talks about the folly of privacy rights.

Sorry, BS meter riding 10 for some time now.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
45. Bonus points for working the Glenn Beck Saudi angle in
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 11:16 PM
Apr 2013

as well as the American Airlines non sequitur.

You should call into the Alex Jones show.

Skip Intro

(19,768 posts)
50. Pondering events = Glen Beck time?
Fri Apr 26, 2013, 12:12 AM
Apr 2013

I got no use for beck or jones, but the truth is the truth.

There is more than enough about what has happened in the last two weeks, vs what we've been told, to warrant suspicion.

Don't feel the same way? Fine.

No need for a backhanded accusation that I must be a right wing loon because I call bs when I smell it, rather than chanting along.





 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
51. The truth is the truth, eh?
Fri Apr 26, 2013, 12:24 AM
Apr 2013

Well, this:

A Saudi person of interest, on a terrorist watch list, first to be detained now set to be deported for security reasons.


is a lie being pushed by Glenn Beck and the crazies on the paranoid right.

Here's the truth:

http://news.yahoo.com/glenn-beck-conspiracy-theory-whats-evidence-202312996.html

It’s “false and misleading” to use the internal document on the Saudi’s immigration status as evidence of the man’s involvement in the bombings, according to US officials quoted by Mr. Baier in a Fox video blog on April 23.

“The FBI says the Saudi [in question] was just a victim of the terrorist attack,” said Baier.



more

After the FBI determined the man had no connection to the Boston crime, it took several days for the bureaucracy to scrub him out of its system. That is why the document existed for a short period of time, and why it shows evidence of officials trying to change it. But anyone searching the system for his name on the Sunday prior to the bombing would have found nothing, reported Baier, because no US government agency was looking for him.


If you have no use for Glenn Beck, you should not rely upon him for your information regarding news events.



JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
46. Having lived close enough to the MOVE event to be able to hear the sirens
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 11:37 PM
Apr 2013

And see the fire reflecting off the rising smoke, I have to say these events are nothing alike.

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