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JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 07:04 PM Apr 2013

Guestworkers to get "nearly half of all IT job openings for which a college degree is required . . "

S. 744, the comprehensive immigration bill introduced by the Senate “Gang of Eight,” dramatically increases the number of skilled guestworker visas available to employers in information technology (IT) and other sectors. The principal IT guestworker visa is the H-1B (49 percent of H-1B holders work in IT), which under current law is capped for private-sector employers at 65,000 per year plus an additional 20,000 for foreign graduates of U.S. universities. With certain exceptions, S. 744 will raise the cap initially to 115,000 and if strong demand continues, to 180,000 per year, with an additional 25,000 reserved for foreign graduates. Thus, under the likely high-demand scenario, we would have 120,000 more H-1Bs annually than we do now, and 58,800 of them would be in IT.

We can reasonably predict, therefore, that guestworkers will fill nearly half of all IT job openings for which a college degree is required each year. In a new report, Guestworkers in the High-Skill U.S. Labor Market, Hal Salzman, Daniel Kuehn, and B. Lindsay Lowell calculate that in 2011 there were approximately 483,000 IT job openings for college grads filled in the last year (including those with advanced degrees), a third of which were filled by newly arriving guestworkers in three different guestworker programs. As the figure shows, if S.744 is enacted and the maximum number of H-1B workers were allowed to enter and work in the United States, nearly 220,000 new job openings in IT would be filled by guestworkers—almost half the annual total as of 2011.

http://www.epi.org/publication/gang-of-8-bill-new-it-jobs-college-degree-guestworker-h1-b/

34 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Guestworkers to get "nearly half of all IT job openings for which a college degree is required . . " (Original Post) JDPriestly Apr 2013 OP
believe me, they use the word "skilled" VERY loosely Skittles Apr 2013 #1
Can we talk? Can we talk? Mopar151 Apr 2013 #7
do you get the dreaded SCRIPTS? Skittles Apr 2013 #9
No, I get lousy "engineers" Mopar151 Apr 2013 #12
I notice they lie a lot Skittles Apr 2013 #13
Some do, some don't Mopar151 Apr 2013 #14
Oh, they most certainly do! OhioChick Apr 2013 #10
Dammit. Matariki Apr 2013 #2
Exactly... octothorpe Apr 2013 #25
And there ARE young people ready and willing to fill these jobs Marrah_G Apr 2013 #3
His security clearance is a major plus at least. octothorpe Apr 2013 #26
American students studying math, computer science get kicked in the teeth yet again. reformist2 Apr 2013 #4
This is a travesty LittleBlue Apr 2013 #5
This is SO wrong. n/t whathehell Apr 2013 #6
How many nanoseconds will it take for employers to shout that it's not enough? IDemo Apr 2013 #8
At least they'll be here legally, and documented as it were. Leslie Valley Apr 2013 #11
arizona border control efforts are aimed at mexicans, not foreign IT workers here legally. that is w msongs Apr 2013 #18
And that's bull crap Leslie Valley Apr 2013 #19
riiight Lurker Deluxe Apr 2013 #28
The issue is not whether immigrants should come and work here. JDPriestly Apr 2013 #21
This article contains some patently misleading 'facts' WilmywoodNCparalegal Apr 2013 #15
Not real surprising you're a fan of them, since you're paid for them. (nt) jeff47 Apr 2013 #17
I strongly oppose immigration visas that do not provide a path to citizenship if desired. JDPriestly Apr 2013 #24
We need one set of rules JustAnotherGen Apr 2013 #30
Right. We lived in a foreign country on education exchange visas -- more than once. JDPriestly Apr 2013 #31
My husband JustAnotherGen Apr 2013 #32
Right. Thanks. JDPriestly Apr 2013 #33
Not crazy about bringing people into the country to work while Skip Intro Apr 2013 #16
I hear immigration lawyers are making a killing these days. Honeycombe8 Apr 2013 #20
And my parents wonder why I refuse to pursue IT as a career. Initech Apr 2013 #22
My Alma Mater's 2011 class has 96% working average salary 58K, 2010 100% working Avg Salary 59K NotThisTime Apr 2013 #27
program brought to you by Bill Gates... WhaTHellsgoingonhere Apr 2013 #23
There are 5 million Americans working in the core IT sector, and about half a million unfilled leveymg Apr 2013 #29
Obscene. woo me with science Apr 2013 #34

Mopar151

(9,974 posts)
7. Can we talk? Can we talk?
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 07:36 PM
Apr 2013

When schmuck employers wish you were a trained monkey, they tend to communicate that to you by forcing you to work with aforesaid monkeys. That is presented as a "business decision", despite the inability of the monkey in question to drive a forklift. If you point this out, you are told that you are an anti-monkey racist.

octothorpe

(962 posts)
25. Exactly...
Fri Apr 26, 2013, 03:05 PM
Apr 2013

I was looking through various craigslist IT/tech job postings around the country last night, and I was disgusted at the fairly low pay they are offering for positions that have hefty skill and experience requirements. I saw a position for a Network Engineer III position in southern california that wanted like 8 years of experience and a MS degree with numerous professional and expert level certifications (across a wide range of areas), but they were only offering 55k for the job. This is wrong on so many levels. First of all, even in a place with a low cost of living, $55k is way low for what they want. Secondly, 55k is really low for someone living in Southern CA period. That's like making $35k where I live (Dallas, Texas)... That's an entry-level wage. I sent them an email letting them know what pieces of shit they are. I know it doesn't help when I do that, but it makes me feel better when I do.

Marrah_G

(28,581 posts)
3. And there ARE young people ready and willing to fill these jobs
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 07:11 PM
Apr 2013

My son searched and searched for a job in networking/IT after 6 months and dozens and dozens of resumes he finally found one- with a DOD contractor because of his knowledge of military systems and his clearance. Without those two things, he would STILL be sending out resumes looking for a job that these lying companies say we don't have US workers for.

octothorpe

(962 posts)
26. His security clearance is a major plus at least.
Fri Apr 26, 2013, 03:09 PM
Apr 2013

The expectations put on IT people is ridiculous as it is. It's even more ridiculous when we have to deal with these unfair practices that drive down our wages.

reformist2

(9,841 posts)
4. American students studying math, computer science get kicked in the teeth yet again.
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 07:11 PM
Apr 2013

Meanwhile, the salaries of the "winners circle" of Ivy League lawyers and MBAs keeps climbing.

 

LittleBlue

(10,362 posts)
5. This is a travesty
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 07:18 PM
Apr 2013

There are plenty of CS degree holders.

Outrageous that the politicians are selling our youth down the river for cheaper Indian slave labor. What a disgraceful generation.

IDemo

(16,926 posts)
8. How many nanoseconds will it take for employers to shout that it's not enough?
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 07:47 PM
Apr 2013

And how many picoseconds after that will Congress grant their wish?

 

Leslie Valley

(310 posts)
11. At least they'll be here legally, and documented as it were.
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 07:57 PM
Apr 2013

Using their own identities and paying taxes and SS.

Come out the the Southwest and talk to some of the people displaced by the "guest workers".

You know like the roofers, tile setters, sheetrock hangers and tapers, painters, cement finishers, framers and on and on. Or my neighbor lady who ran her home and office cleaning business where she employed 10-15 people legally.

I'll introduce you to a few. See that guy slicing meat at Fry's deli? How about that door greeter at the Harrah's Ak-Chin casino? And here's a dude lucky to get 15-20 hours a week at Lowes. I know them personally and they all either worked for or were contractors in the trades here in Arizona.

Oh I know they aren't big deal IT workers, just hard working citizens. Probably not that important in the scheme of things.

But when Arizona wants to tighten the borders and crack down on people here illegally we get called bigots and racists.

I suppose it's all in whose ox is getting gored.

msongs

(67,347 posts)
18. arizona border control efforts are aimed at mexicans, not foreign IT workers here legally. that is w
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 09:06 PM
Apr 2013

arizona policies are called bigoted and racist

 

Leslie Valley

(310 posts)
19. And that's bull crap
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 09:12 PM
Apr 2013

It's aimed at the people who came to take our jobs.

They aren't all lettuce pickers and landscapers.

Get your facts straight then get back to me.

Lurker Deluxe

(1,036 posts)
28. riiight
Fri Apr 26, 2013, 03:27 PM
Apr 2013

As long as they are taking my job it's all good. Once they come for your job it's a bitch.

I have competing with immigrants in the skilled trades for decades, driving down wages.

I worked in a shop in 92' as a welder and was topped out at $18/hr. That shop is still open ... top wage? $16/hr and it's all mexicans.

Just a matter of time before the same thing happens here as a machinist, automation with cnc machines means all you need is a person to change parts, the machine will do the rest and the operator damn sure isn't going to be making $30+. Fortunately it will take over 10 years for that transformation to happen and I will be retiring.

So ... the IT group has to fight the same battle I have for twenty years, I remember what I was told, "we are becoming a service economy, go back to school and get into computers". Well, now we're becoming a food service economy, tear up your degree and get a job at a fast food place.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
21. The issue is not whether immigrants should come and work here.
Fri Apr 26, 2013, 02:38 PM
Apr 2013

The issues are whether a) immigration should be based on educational level or specific skill capacity; b) immigration based on educational level or specific skill capacity should be justified by an argument that Americans are not smart or well trained enough to do specific jobs that specific immigrants will do (the sharecropper, second-class visa syndrome); c) whether a path to citizenship should be offered to all immigrants or whether a selected group of immigrants, sort of indentured servants who owe their visas to their employers and whose ability to stay in the US is conditioned on their remaining with a particular employer or employers should not be offered a path to citizenship.

I favor equal rights for all immigrants. We got rid of slavery and when we did we also gradually abolished indentured servitude pretty much.

The H1-B visas are a modern form of indentured servitude. There are legends about indentured servants among my ancestors. Indentured servants were better off than slaves, but they were treated very badly.

I strongly oppose the H1-B visas. They provide for a second-class immigrant status. That is deplorable. It is against everything we stand for as a country.

WilmywoodNCparalegal

(2,654 posts)
15. This article contains some patently misleading 'facts'
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 08:29 PM
Apr 2013

One of them - the article states that "under current law [the H-1B visa] is capped for private-sector employers at 65,000 per year plus an additional 20,000 for foreign graduates of U.S. universities."

I underlined the misleading information. The 20,000 separate quota is for foreign graduates, surely, but not just for any foreign graduate. It is only for those who have obtained at least a Master's degree from a U.S. university.

Earlier on, the article mentions that the H-1B is the principal IT guestworker visa. First of all, the term 'guestworker' is weird and does not exist in reality. In reality, these kinds of visas are known as non-immigrant visas. Not all these 'guestworker' visas are for workers. Some are for people who are branching out and establishing U.S. subsidiaries, branches or affiliates of their foreign business. By definition, these are not guestworkers, but they are certainly non-immigrants, because their visas are temporary with the presumption that the foreign national will return to his/her country of origin once the visa expires, even though most of these visas allow for 'dual intent' (the ability to seek permanent residence, while at the same time remaining in non-immigrant status).

The other assertion made about the H-1B is that it's the most common visa for IT. Not even close. The L-1B is by far more commonly used (and abused). Why? Simply because it has hardly any compliance requirements, no wage requirements, no education requirements, etc. Companies can even request 'blanket' L visas to cover numerous workers.

For all its faults, the H-1B does have some substantial compliance burdens. Most employers do indeed abide by the rules. This doesn't mean there aren't those who don't abide by the rules, but in general most do. The H is also much more expensive than the L visa. The H-1B visa prohibits an employer from being reimbursed or paid back by the employee. In fact, the employer is required to pay the filing fees and - most lawyers advice - the legal fees.

The article indicates that the report referenced therein determines that a third of all IT openings for college grads is filled by foreign nationals. There were, according to the article and report, 483,000 such openings. This means that of those, only 161,000 of them were filled by foreign nationals (about 33%). The rest (approx. 66%) were not.

So, the idea that somehow these evil foreign nationals steal the IT jobs from right under the 'Murican workers is not that based in reality.

The article also operates on the wrong assumption that, were the cap to be increased, all those H-1Bs would be for IT occupations. This would be true if one didn't know anything about the H-1B. For those of us who actually do know about this, it is a terrible assumption. Did you know that the H-1B visa includes fashion models? Did you know that they too fall under this cap? And did you know that the second largest bloc of employers seeking H-1B foreign nationals is made up of colleges, universities and their affiliated medical/research institutions?

I recall the advice of one of my computer science professors when I was still an engineering major at a large public state institution with strong engineering programs in the early 1990s. He was a naturalized U.S. citizen. As we were talking after class one day, he said that he believed U.S. students would have a hard time competing for IT jobs with foreign students. His reply when I asked 'Why' was simple: because while foreign students are exposed to math and science at early ages, many U.S. students must still deal with weak science and math curricula infused with creationist perspectives.



JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
24. I strongly oppose immigration visas that do not provide a path to citizenship if desired.
Fri Apr 26, 2013, 02:50 PM
Apr 2013

If you are living in America for any length of time beyond a visitor's visa of say 3 months, you should have a path to citizenship. I do not approve of people setting up businesses here who are not either citizens or potential citizens.

Temporary work visas are one of the means that the corporations use to undermine our democracy, our national identity, the fabric of our country and our freedom.

All work visas should provide the opportunity to apply for citizenship here provided the person who applies for citizenship here renounces their citizenship in the country in which they had citizenship by birth. The only people who should have dual citizenship in the US are those who were born with it, with the right or obligation of citizenship in another country as well as the right and obligation of citizenship in the U.S.

Education visas are the only visas that should not include the right to apply for citizenship. And education visas should be strictly limited to the time that the immigrant requires to finish school. Education visas should be strictly enforced to insure that people on education visas do not work or earn income here.

I am not opposed to immigration. I am opposed to immigration that discriminates against certain classes of immigrants.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
31. Right. We lived in a foreign country on education exchange visas -- more than once.
Fri Apr 26, 2013, 03:52 PM
Apr 2013

That's great. In one case, my husband worked there on a teacher exchange program. Even then, at the end of the exchange period, we could have applied to stay on a visa that would have permitted us to apply for citizenship. That's the way it should be.

The H1-B visas take advantage of the workers who get them and the unemployed who can't get jobs the foreign workers take.

JustAnotherGen

(31,780 posts)
32. My husband
Fri Apr 26, 2013, 04:28 PM
Apr 2013

Is an Italian immigrant - and most definitely NOT a tech worker. But he sees just what you've said.

He's a an artist/craftsman/tradesman. . . See what 'lower pay rates' have done to our trades people in America? If only we could put the American and Green Card Holder men and women who swing hammers back to work. Don't get me wrong - there's lots of construction/rebuilding going on down the Jersey shore right now . . .


But you would be shocked at who is doing it and what the rate of pay is they are receiving. . .

Tech needs to fight for their lives or go the way of HVAC - i.e. non certified workers handling haz mat in the consumers home at a few bucks an hour. Fight!

Skip Intro

(19,768 posts)
16. Not crazy about bringing people into the country to work while
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 08:32 PM
Apr 2013

so many of us already here are having a hard time finding work at a livable wage.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
20. I hear immigration lawyers are making a killing these days.
Thu Apr 25, 2013, 09:17 PM
Apr 2013

Getting rich hand over fist. Not helping immigrants, but helping big companies get foreign workers with a temp card.

NotThisTime

(3,657 posts)
27. My Alma Mater's 2011 class has 96% working average salary 58K, 2010 100% working Avg Salary 59K
Fri Apr 26, 2013, 03:10 PM
Apr 2013

If you know what you're doing with a 4 year CS degree no reason to be unemployed, but I can't believe how many kids I meet who can't understand array's or multidimensional concepts in their head and flunk out, and that goes for those here on working visa's too who do a sloppy job in their flow charts, design and development.

 

WhaTHellsgoingonhere

(5,252 posts)
23. program brought to you by Bill Gates...
Fri Apr 26, 2013, 02:47 PM
Apr 2013

...but when he blames it on American education and throws his weight behind a massive campaign railing against public education, well, that *must* be the problem because he's a brilliant and enormously successful businessman. He must know better than us.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
29. There are 5 million Americans working in the core IT sector, and about half a million unfilled
Fri Apr 26, 2013, 03:33 PM
Apr 2013

positions at this time. http://www.comptia.org/documents/Generating_Jobs_White%20paper_online_1618-US.pdf.

Thus, under the likely high-demand scenario, we would have 120,000 more H-1Bs annually than we do now, and 58,800 of them would be in IT.


58,000 isn't half of the IT job openings. It's more like 15 percent.
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