You know what Conspiracy Theorists have in common with Creationists?

[Bicoastal]

They don't give equal skepticism to their own theory as they do to the official story.

I've heard Intelligent Design advocates go and on about slight discrepancies in the fossil record, and then turn around and say "See? GOD!" Of course, discrepancies don't prove or disprove anything--the world is rarely that simple--but to them, it means that magic wins. Of course, they'll never deign to answer HUGE problems about their own supernatural account, it just is, because their bible tells them so.

Well, replace "God" with "Government" and you have basically have your typical Alex Jones listener. Everything and anything points to a false flag operation, but they'll never explain how the government did it, at least in any detail beyond "they did their scary magic government thing!" It's enough that a few facts are on the grey side instead of black and white, and they discount the entire story. It's the same brand of zealotry.

[xfundy]

1. That,

and they're both NUTS.

[LegaliesGeorgeCarlin]

16. Double Standard

We all know that Rove stole elections for Bush but the Right labels that a crazy conspiracy as they do about much of the solid reporting on BradBlog. The bigger the lie the harder it is to get people to accept it because some lies are si big people would have to reorganize their entire belief systems and not just one thought especially if that lie has become the platform on which many subsequent beliefs stand. People are too lazy and fearful to attempt such a challenge.

[zeemike]

27. Mostly fearful.

There are some people that have a great fear of looking foolish....so their strategy is to never believe anything but the official story...Rove and the manipulators of public opinion use that fact to their advantage.

And welcome to DU.

[LegaliesGeorgeCarlin]

31. Agreed

Thank you. Luckily I live life now not caring what others think. I questions the answers and think for myself. It's really the best way to realize anything in a substantial way...if only our society taught people to think for themselves.

[NightWatcher]

2. I love it that if you question one story, you're a "conspiracy nut"

I'm so fucking sick of the false equivalencies that have crept into DU from the outside world.

Questioning who may have killed JFK is not the same as someone who thinks Obama is Kenyan who rigged the Honolulu Press to fake a birth certificate. Having concerns about one thing doesn't make you a loon that thinks the government sprays people with chemtrails.

[Bicoastal]

3. There's "asking questions" and then there's wingnuttery.

And when it comes to the latter, in the words of Justice Stewart, I know it when I see it.

[LegaliesGeorgeCarlin]

33. Sock Puppets

Here is a conspiracy theory for you. The New Yorker and New York Times reported a while back that conservative neocon NGOs were paying people to monitor sites like this and Huffpost; these people got paid to comment and further the neocon agenda and could control up to 16 phoney online sock puppet profiles. Anyone who questioned the push to war, the Patriot Act, the TSA or pushed conspiracy theories was attacked and one of their methods was to try and reduce the discussion to juvenile responses with lots of curse words and obscene 8 th grade sexual insults. The main guy they interviewed quit because he got tired of all debased commentary. Too bad we can't pay people to run that kind of software on foxnews.com or politico.

[jollyreaper2112]

7. The kicker is the not questioning their own theories

Scientists are happy to wail at evolution with sledgehammers to see where it breaks. It's the trust someone has in a theory they'd stake their lives on. If there's a hole, they damned well want to know about it.

I do think there's a big difference between doubting the official story and supporting an incredibly elaborate conspiracy theory as gospel truth.

Frankly, I don't trust the official like on 9-11. I don't doubt four planes were hijacked, that the towers fell from impact and fire, that the planes were piloted by human beings. I think a lot of the official story details sound funny. On principle, I don't trust a goddamn thing that came from the Bushies.

But there's a world of difference between that and talking chemtrails, controlled demolitions, and nuttery without a shred of proof.

Some religious people I've talked to are willing to talk seriously abut the holes in their claims. Usually they're the ones who make the least preposterous assertions. Evolution is real, universe is 14 billion years old, began with a bang, God lit the fuse. That's a claim far harder to falsify than the Earth being 6,000 years old, Jesus rode a dinosaur to temple, Noah's Ark is a real thing, etc.

[greyl]

25. Nice line.

"Scientists are happy to wail at evolution with sledgehammers to see where it breaks."

[cui bono]

10. +1

When critical thinking is ridiculed you know a site has jumped the shark.

[LegaliesGeorgeCarlin]

14. Coincidence Theorists

I agree 100%. After being an avid reader of DU and living this website I must chime in too. I am sick of all the myopic Councidence Theorists who infect these forums and chide those who ask hard questions. No wonder we have so few journalists and so many stenographers. Just like I'm not going to blindly follow Obama just because my guy is now in the White House I will also question things that don't add up. 911 and JFK are good examples and unfortunately everything we are saddened by that is ruining our country can be traced to not confronting the truth about these two evils. If we did the causes we support would have more support and the criminals who are against us would not be able to hide in plain sight. Napoleon said history is a just a fable agreed upon and U bet he had some experience to back that up. We have 500,000 people in prison on conspiracy charges so trust me conspiracies do exist and the more money that's at stake the more incentive there is to cover up or further a Grand Lie. At one time creationism was the official story and evolution was the so called conspiracy theory.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

4. There is, of course, no reason to be skeptical of this assertion

and any such skepticism is indicative that the skeptic is probably part of the problem.

[Electric Monk]

9. I hope you see the irony of your assertion, or else you're part of the problem.

As to the OP's assertion: "They don't give equal skepticism to their own theory as they do to the official story. "

You know this how?

[freshwest]

5. Cults take people away from conventional knowledge, tell them they are superior to non-believers,

who have not been initiated into the esoteric (secret hidden) knowledge. The idea they have power from what they've been converted to, turns them into true believers and zealots.

Anything that is presented after they join the cult is filtered and discarded as it doesn't have that binding force. Anyone speaking against it is stupid, evil or both. Those such as Beck and Jones use tools such as music, fast imagery and anxiety producing memes to create recall.

They blend history, science fiction, dramatic presentation with fear to keep their followers coming back daily. After all, the world is going to hell, so it's a survival instinct.

The world is changing, not dying, and some will win and some will lose. But they keep on looking for a solution to keep what they had that is fading. Most are the Ron Paul refugees with all the self-righteousness of a Nazi.

They, and only they, are going to save the world, no one else can do anything, so diss them. And get out of their way. Hitler and his nutsos thought they were bringing a golden age, and if only the old ways were swept away, the ancient this or that, the world would be a better place.

Demagoguing is not new. This is exactly what Carl Sagan said he was afraid of when he wrote 'The Demon Haunted World' about people who are being miseducated by media to grasp at things like they are magic, because really, they are not trained in thinking now.

I'm concerned about what this means, not that the world is going to end, but The Idiocracy. It's not an accident these folks hate government, demonize the educational, medical and all other things they are taught to be afraid of and run from.

Because there will be a place for them as those who don't fall for this, continue to learn and advance in life. And it's exactly the slavery the say government or Obama is bringing. It'll be from their tribal, feudal thinking and they'll be the serfs. They will get what they expect.

[Bluenorthwest]

8. They also don't do well with the why the government did it part....

They claim huge efforts are made to 'stage' events and such, but they can never explain what was attained by the dark forces that did the horrible thing. They claim the government does very difficult things to gain....nothing.

[Electric Monk]

11. The MIC needs perpetual war to justify its continued existence and immense budgets. nt

[cui bono]

13. They... geez.

Who are you talking about exactly? And do you not think the govt ever does anything in order to gain something and that they might do secretive things that are illegal?

[Bluenorthwest]

17. Well I'm responding to an OP that states who the they is, that's how English works, kiddo.

There is a world of reality in between the Alex Jones World View and a view that says 'the govt never does anything illegal'. Your desire to paint with hyperbole is exactly what I was talking about,

Those who think there are NO conspiracies or hidden stories are no closer to understanding things than those who simply assume EVERYTHING is such a plot. Those are the two groups who could not spot an actual conspiracy if it bit them on the butt and stole their pin number.

[cui bono]

18. Right, and without refuting that "they" aren't all Alex Jones fans, which the OP seems to think.

I'm glad that you don't think that way, I don't think that's clear in your post though, it seems to continue the OP's sentiments.

I have no desire to paint with hyperbole, I was merely responding to what had been said until then, and as I said, you seemed to agree with the OP since you didn't refute that the OP says all conspiracy theorists are Alex Jones type nutbags and continued the line of thinking.

And really, no need to call me kiddo and be so snarky. If you reread the OP and your post I'm sure you can see why I thought you felt the way I thought you did.

Again, glad you don't.

[Bluenorthwest]

20. It was perfectly clear in the words of my post, you just place your own inferences onto what you

read. Not a good habit. And you did use hyperbole, insulting and condescending in nature at that.
The tactic of answering any criticism with 'oh, so you just believe the government is perfect' is utterly lame material. Utterly.
'Do you believe in Santa Claus?'
No
'Oh, so you hate Christmas and think everyone should spend the day gambling.'

Those tactics indicate an unwillingness to discuss facts, to compare and contrast. Is it not ironic that people who claim the government lies to suppress truth so often get upset when others question truths they present? If you don't think people should take media or government at face value,why should they not question those who propose some theory? If your actual agenda was for people to question and become aware and informed, why would you take the position that if they don't agree with you instantly and fully that they 'think the government never does wrong' or something? Isn't that similar to those on the right who when confronted with possible official wrongdoing say 'oh, so you hate America'?
Just some thoughts.

[cui bono]

28. Okay, whatever. I asked you a question based on you continuing the OP's use of they

as Alex Jones followers. That is exactly how the OP used it and you didn't change how it was used.

I really don't see how you can't see that and how you can think all those thoughts about what I posted. I explained it in my last post and now you go off on some meaningless diatribe that is a complete misunderstanding of both my previous posts.

[cui bono]

12. So you think everyone who looks into conspiracy theories listens to Alex Jones?

Boy, you need a little more exposure. Or just learn how to not generalize so much. Do you also think everyone who likes comedy watches the stupidest sitcom every made?

And do you believe everything you are told by TPTB or the mainstream media? Because that is what is really nutty.

[SidDithers]

15. Many CTers are hugely entertaining, tho...

There's comedy gold in the conspiracist worldview.



Sid

[ErikJ]

19. Easy to convince and brainwas people who think Jesus rode dinosaurs.

[AverageJoe90]

23. Or that Obama is a war criminal,

or that global warming is either a hoax, or, on the other hand, is going to kill us all and that we can't stop it, etc.....(inevitably!).....n/t

[grahamhgreen]

21. Here's a real conspiracy: Iraq Has WMD, lets go to war forever.

[AverageJoe90]

22. I've noticed a similar problem with climate doomers + deniers & Obama bashers as well.

Climate deniers....well, most people here know the drill by now in that regard

Climate doomers will themselves go on and on about slight discrepancies, tiny mistakes, small oversights, etc. in studies done by the IPCC and other official organizations, and how their favorite people are being ignored, and they'll occasionally throw out their own conspiracy theories about how the IPCC and other organizations are trying to hide the true severity of global warming from the populace, that anyone who challenges their bullshit is a "minimizer" or a secret denier, etc. and that humanity will go extinct, we're all parasites, etc. I've even seen some New Agey(and the shoe fits!) mumbo-jumbo theories being thrown about involving truly strange intrepretations of Chaos Theory and certain other things.

And then Obama bashers, too, use a similar M.O. as creationists, just as the climate doomers/deniers do. They're all a bunch of wackos in their own way, but as much as we'd like to ignore them, it's become impossible. So, instead, we need to continue debunking their bullshit: Yes, global warming is real. No, we are not doomed, nor are we at actual risk for extinction, or near-term civilizational collapse(for all you wannabe Atlases and pseudo-Galt types out there), yes, most of the doomsters' spokespeople are either totally ignorant or intellectually dishonest.....and no, Obama isn't a war criminal or trying to screw us all for the 1 Percent, and yes, our big blue rock really is 4.6 billion years old.

Hey, it's a tiring job, but someone's got to do it, right?

[graham4anything]

36. Yup. also NRA folk.Debunk the same old same old a thousand times, they say it 1001.

[AverageJoe90]

37. But of course, going into RKBA or talking with certain people in E/E, you'd get the impression......

that they think that they're the only ones with any facts, and they're the rational ones and that we're the crazies(when nothing could be farther than the truth!).

[SeattleVet]

24. It's even worse than we thought!

If even a small fraction of these conspiracy theories are true, the numbers of people who had to be involved in the conspiracy would exceed the population.

So the thing is, we're ALL a part of the conspiracy, they just haven't let us know, yet.

[zeemike]

30. Actually the opposite is true.

The better the conspiracy the fewer the people involved.
And if you don't think a handful of people can manipulate things you really are naive

[Skip Intro]

26. Is it your position that anyone questioning the government

is a conspiracy theorist?

And subject to the full weight of scorn and disgust a conspiracy theorist deserves?

[zappaman]

29. I don't like the term "conspiracy theorist" anymore.

I prefer "conspiracy buff" cuz it's a neat little hobby to spend so much time analyzing all the minutia of the JFK assassination, looking for the one thing that will break the case.
Or spending so much time of your short stay on the planet obsessing on the BFEE.
It's cute..."Conspiracy Buff" is a term that reflects that.

[LegaliesGeorgeCarlin]

32. Coincidence Theorist

I love the term Coincidence Theorist. I thought I coined it myself but I'm sure it's just a coincidence. I bet Robert Anton Wilson would love this thread if he were alive today.

[Octafish]

34. Yeah. It's not like the Bush and bin Laden families were in business together...

...other than in the Carlyle Group and through James R Bath.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1946852&mesg_id=1951151

[graham4anything]

35. Yup. They are like arsonists/anarchists/cults. It's the fire, burn it down, and don't care

logic never steps in.

[redgreenandblue]

38. The other side of the coin are people who will support the "official" narrative at all costs.

WMDs in Iraq? If you doubt them then you are a "conspiracy theorist".