Do you know somone who is still living pre-9/11 in a post-9/11 world?

[SummerSnow]

I have a relative who is living pre 9/11. She has no state ID.no birth certificate no social security card and lives in NYC. This is how she is living pre 9/11.
Before 9/11 people could enter state and federal buildings without showing their state ID. After 9/11 that changed.Especially in NYC. Bags are being checked in subways now. My relative needed to open a bank account.When she tried she was denied cause she didn't have a state ID. So I asked her did she take her birth certificate and social security card.She said she can't find it and believed she accidently threw it out.So I told her to order a new one.Well she was denied a new one cause she didn't have a state ID and her social security card is invalid cause she wrote all over it. Crossed out her maiden name and scribbled her first husbands name and when he died and she remarried she crossed out the first husbands last name and scribbled in there new husbands last name.So they told her it was invalid.So I said well order a new one with your current husbands last name.So when she went to do this at the social security office to apply for a new sscard they told her she needed her birth certificate.Well remember she lost it and couldn't get a new one cause she needed a social security card. Recently her daughter was sick overseas and she needet too go.she couldn'tapply for a passport cause she has no state id., no birth certificate and no social security card.She went to the dmv to get a state ID was denied cause she does not have a birth certificate..or social security card.She was born in the US. and living pre 9/11

[graham4anything]

1. Is this an analogy? I know people who like to think 9-11 didn't happen and forget that it did.

[SummerSnow]

2. not an analogy at all.When the world changed she didnt change with it.Now she is in a post 9/11 ..

world and cant do anything.She is not in denial at all 9/11 happened. I associate her not taking care of her business with laziness.

[graham4anything]

6. I didn't say she was in denial. I said as an analogy some like to think it didn't to promote causes

In the 1970s they say 90% of people smoked. Then change came in and 90% dont and the ones that do can't smoke in most places in NYC and outside alot of places too.

[SummerSnow]

8. No.She just became complacent and the world kept turning.

[HiPointDem]

7. why would you associate it with laziness? she didn't need those things

before and apparently got along fine. was there some official announcement i missed that we need documents xzy or we won't be able to function?

no, all those requirements just crept up bit by bit and if you didn't need them for some reason at the time, you wouldn't have noticed unless you were paying attention to those kinds of things.

[graham4anything]

11. Actually yes, there was. But another analogy-

the first generations come to the country and keep the language
the second and third quickly want to adapt

it's only stubborn Americans here for generations that don't want to adapt to change-
using language as examples-
all kids should be taught 10 languages in school, including French, Italian, German, Spanish Japanese, Chinese and English or more (pick your choice).

Yet stubborn people hold to the same old English as the only language in a post-modern age world.

Rebels without a cause then some get pushed aside, becuase SHOCKINGLY others have more to offer.

Almost all foreign people understand English. Go overseas and the know English. They won't admit it, and may laugh(a small minority would laugh), but they know English.
Whereas, some go overseas, and they don't and are lost.

And ID is a known thing.
It's been 11 years now.

From when it happened, to when Bush missed Richard Clarke's memo and said he would smoke OBL out and didn't, to when President Obama came and got OBL, to now.

[SummerSnow]

20. Spot on..and yes its been 11 years.

[sabrina 1]

31. I haven't changed a thing. Still have the same IDs, no state iD. Not all of us live in fear.

Things happen, people don't have to spend their lives cowering in fear because of them. I am from NY and have not needed any special ID. The day this country becomes so fearful that everyone is afraid to go out and willing to give up their rights, is the day to go to a free country where the people are less scared of everything. But no one I know has allowed these fears people such as yourself seem to live with, stop them from living the way they always lived.

You should try not to be so afraid, it doesn't do a thing to prevent situations out of your control. Fear is irrational and debilitating. Just because the Bush gang wanted to use 9/11 to remove Constitutional rights doesn't mean it worked, Most of us have zero respect for liars like Bush so his fear mongering never worked on us.

Everyone dies sometime. If people lived their lives thinking about it all the time, no one would be living at all.

[SummerSnow]

12. I associate it with laziness..

There was announcements.the DMV changed its policy on how to get state IDs or DL.State and federal offices put up signs what you needed to have to get in. Banks became more strict on what you needed to open accounts.Airports became more strict as well.She was here watching it happen she was not asleep. She knew what she had to do but told.me she never thought she would need it.

[el_bryanto]

3. Catch 22 - she might need an attorney

I mean there has to be a way to thread that needle.

Bryant

[graham4anything]

4. or needle the thread.

[SummerSnow]

5. I totally agree she needs an attorney.I mentioned it and she said she has no money to hire one....

I said what if you were mistaken for someone? You can't prove who you are. She gave me a blank stare.

[treestar]

9. She should order a new certified copy of her birth certificate

If they demand her ID, they may have a procedure for people without IDs - affidavits or some such thing.

[SummerSnow]

21. I checked.The original requirements she cant give them

But when I checked for the additional acceptable ID she doesn't even have that stuff

[sammytko]

32. I think she can have "witnesses" sign an affidavit saying that she is "so and so" born in XYZ on

this date.

But, you are probably right - just lazy or maybe afraid of going through the whole ordeal.

This name changing thing because of marriage is a pain. Never will I change my name again!

[SummerSnow]

36. The name changing can be a pain..

when I got married I changed my name. Had to send make the changes at the social security office.It went smooth. A few times I had to fill out forms for another matter and I had to put my maiden name to get some money I was entitled to. It was a pain.I remember having to get stuff notarized to declare I didn't change my name or social security number due to domestic violence.

[treestar]

33. Maybe she can petition a court

or look at other databases where somewhere a government acknowledged her existence. Did she ever have a Driver's license at some point in the past? Social security card, etc. Use Freedom of Information Act to query each government entity. Even schools may have something.

[peace13]

10. I am so sorry for her!

Four years ago my sister who is battling a deadly disease moved back to Ohio so that I could take care of her. She needed an Ohio ID to vote and travel, if necessary. We took her unexpired Idaho drivers license, her birth certificate and her social security card to the DMV. When they entered her social security number it came up with her maiden name from when she lived in Ohio, 35 years ago. They asked how did your name change? we need proof of how your name changed. Well she had been married three times and we had her most recent set of divorce papers only and no marriage documentation at all. They could have traced this back through the DMV's but they would not.

It took two trips to the DMV, loading her and her wheelchair in and out and finally going to a DMV where my husband did many transactions to get this paperwork completed. We were lucky that this worked as it would have taken a year to work through three marriage licenses and two divorce decrees.

Of course this legislates against women mostly as men rarely change their names!

How old is your friend? Does she have any church records that would document her birth? Is there someone who would work with the threads of information to pull it all together for her? How will she collect SS? I wish she could find an advocate!, this is a crime.


Edited to add...women, keep all marriage and divorce papers with you whenever you move. Do not put them in storage or leave an abusive situation without all of your documents. Things are bad and they will only get worse with regard to ID laws!

[SummerSnow]

13. I so agree with you.

I asked her if she had baptism record. She said she lost it.She had her marriage licence. She doesn't remember the church she was baptised at.Both her parents have passed.So when she told me she lost these items.I'm.wondering if its.just misplaced. She has a lot of paper .I'm willing to help her look.But I had along talk with her about how and why this could have happened she told me she just didn't think it was important. I'm confused.

[marions ghost]

17. She should be able to get a birth certificate

from state records where she was born. My dad, who was born at home on a farm, was even able to get one (it took longer, but he did get it). So even if there isn't a birth certificate, you can get official verification of your place and date of birth.

[SummerSnow]

25. Hmm i will.let her know this.thanks.

[marions ghost]

14. Women are too casual about this

--you need to establish things in a new name following a marriage or divorce if there's a name change.

That is a really good example of pre-911 thinking. Women who are not careful to own their own identity are asking for trouble. Glad it worked out for your sister.

[peace13]

15. Thanks for this.

I edited my post before reading your response. It is so true. We have to protect our identity and guard the papers. Really a new concept for Americans.

[marions ghost]

18. Children especially girls need to be taught

"own your identity" -- whatever that means to you. Don't let it be nebulous and cause problems.
Take care of this. It can help the healing after a divorce or bad marriage--to establish your legal identity. Don't let it drift until you get married again.

Women who keep your last name after marriage, always carry a small copy of your marriage certificate in your wallet.

[SummerSnow]

23. I have all my stuff and I keep a duplucate in my sisters place.You never know.

[SoCalDem]

26. and do a girl a favor.. Get her a passport for graduation

even if she never leaves the US, it's a great thing to have and relatively cheap to renew..

[marions ghost]

29. good point

agree. And urge her to use the passport and experience another country, even if only Canada or Mexico, which most Americans can go to. It really helps change your perspective on America.

[SummerSnow]

19. So true. I keep our papers in a safe.

One of my relatives who lived in a shelter in NYC told me everyday the shelter tenants have to sign in and they have to show their state IDs before signing. If not they wont be able to sign in and they will lose their shelter space. You can be homeless and they require this just to.live in a shelter now.

[Phentex]

34. I am still amazed at how common this is...

This came up recently when we were having a conversation about calling customer service. One woman said they wouldn't talk to her because the account was in her husband's name. Then we started talking about women who don't have any utilities or credit in their names and what a problem it is. I cannot believe this is still happening! One of my best friends is going through a rough patch financially and asked for help figuring things out. However, she is clueless about the amount of her mortgage, how to access records, what her spouse's income is, ETC. I wanted to help her create a budget but she has no idea what her income/expenses are!

This makes me crazy. It's 2013.

[marions ghost]

35. Everything major needs to be joint--in both names

yeah, duh. Whew, no idea of income or expenses...yikes.

Like you say--it's 2013. C'mon ladies, get real.

[SummerSnow]

37. Oh wow.Thats sad.Are we that dependent on men?

[Phentex]

38. Don't know if it has anything to do with men...

I think some people just stay in the dark because they don't feel the need to know. There was a thread recently about financial awareness (I don't think that was the exact term) but basically the idea that some people don't learn about finance until they get into some kind of difficulty. Of course, there are many women who let their spouses take over the finances and don't look back. And there are men who don't know how to budget. But what's up with people being adults and not having their own names on things? Why wouldn't someone know how to find out what their mortgage is? Who doesn't have access to their bank account information? Fred and Wilma Flinstone, that's who!

[SummerSnow]

39. I agree with you.Those are very good questions.

In someway I think there is more to her situation than meets the eye. I could be projecting. Idk.Maybe a few talks over tea and cookies will open up some things.

[Phentex]

42. I find it interesting...

Glad you posted about it.

There's another side too: some people want to live off the grid.

[SummerSnow]

22. She has her marriage licence.Im wondering if her

husband can sign something so she can get her papers.

[cali]

16. I sort of am.

Yeah, I have a driver's license, but no bc. My passport expired. No SS card.

I live in Vermont where things feel pretty much the same as they did pre-911.

[SoCalDem]

24. If she was born in a hospital, and knows her birthdate

she can probably go online to the vital statistics page and order one..

We've done it many times over the years due to sports participation for our sons (easier to order a new one than to look for the ones we have ...somewhere)..

we've never had a problem..

Indiana & Kansas
never needed any other ID to order it..

same for the marriage license we needed for our medical insurance

same for SS..I replaced my old one with a phone call

[SummerSnow]

27. Yes she was born in a hospital and see what they can do to help her.

[SoCalDem]

28. you might try online first..and if that fails, call the votal statistics office

directly.

Our kids had ZERO IDs and we had no trouble getting them..

[SoCalDem]

30. Just checked..rules have changed a bit...BUT

This is from crazy Kansas..surely her state is not as loony

Once she has this, she can get the rest

IDENTIFICATION

ID IS REQUIRED OF PERSON COMPLETING FORM
Due to identity theft and other fraudulent use of vital records, acceptable ID is limited.

IF YOU DO NOT HAVE A GOVERNMENT ISSUED PHOTO ID, YOU MUST SEND PHOTOCOPIES OF ANY TWO OF THE FOLLOWING (MUST BE TWO DIFFERENT FORMS OF ID):

Social Security Card (must be signed)
Current Utility Bill With Current Address
Bank Statement With Current Address
Current Pay Stub (must include your name, social security, With Current address number plus name and address of business)
Car Registration or Title

[Oilwellian]

40. I just used this service to get a copy of my husband's birth certificate

Didn't need an ID to get it. Just needed to know his mother's maiden name, father's name, place and date of birth. Received a certified copy within a week.

https://www.vitalchek.com/

[SummerSnow]

41. I will direct her to this site.thanks

[Oilwellian]

43. I should add...

She'll also need her SS # but won't need to show a copy of it. I'm hoping she knows it by memory. Also, at the very end of the check out process, they will ask security questions about the streets she lived on and other places she has lived. Once the service gets the birth certificate, they send it via UPS overnight and she will have to be there to sign for it. Total cost is $50 bucks and well worth the money if you need it right away. Otherwise, going through the state's vital records office could take weeks. Also, my request was for a Louisiana birth certificate. Don't know if they're required to follow each state's rules and for NY they will have to ask for a photo ID. I hope that's not the case. It wasn't for LA. I wish her luck. It's a papers please world we now live in.

[markpkessinger]

44. "Bags are being checked in subways now."

I'm not at all sure what the sentence, "Bags are being checked in subways now," has do to with the rest of your post, but here are a few things you and your relative should know about subway bag checks.

I have lived in NYC since 1981, and I carry a bag or backpack most days, and use the subway multiple times each day. I have NOT ONCE had my bag checked. These bag checks appear fairly randomly, but mustily during the morning and evening rush hours, never at all stations, and never even at all entrances to a particular station at the same time. No one is required to submit to a search. If someone is asked to submit their bag for searching, and that person refuses, hw or she will be denied entry at that particular entrance to the station; HOWEVER, all he or she needs to do is walk maybe a block or two to an alternate entrance to the same station, where almost invariably there will be no bag check set up at all. And it is perfectly legal to do so.

Look, the bag checks are, to be sure, ridiculous. But they are made alll the more so by the fact that (a) they are not universal and (b) it is so easy to get around them. It's a stupid policy that isn't making anybody any safer. But don't make it out to be more oppressive than it actually is.