Losing My Religion & a Perspective on the Boston Bombers

[HockeyMom]

Much is being talked about their radicalization, "who" influenced the younger brother, and even for the Christian wife who converted to Islam. How could a teenager do this? SOMEBODY must have influenced them, including the former Christian wife.

No, I don't think so. I spent 12 years in Catholic school. By the time I was 15 I had had enough of the BS, of this religion, and ALL religions, and admitted to myself that I just did not believe. I came to this conclusion all by myself, and 50 years later, I still feel the same. I never told my parents and just went along with it all until I graduated HS.

My school was only girls. We regularly had dances with an all boys Catholic HS school. It was there that I became friends with a boy who would later become a very, very famous athlete. I will not name him for his privacy. In his 20s he converted from Catholicism to Islam. Although we never talked religion per se, when the subject of the church came up, we both would either laugh, or raise our eyes. I knew that he wasn't going to remain "faithful" and he knew I wasn't either.

Although we both took different paths, he to Islam, and me to Atheism, the seeds were sown already as young teens, whether we told anyone or not. Nobody influenced me and I doubt anyone influenced him either. It was our OWN decisions.

[Brickbat]

1. Some kids find their own path, some follow the ones laid down for them.

Maybe no one spelled it out for you, or forced you to follow your path, but there were certainly things that influenced the decisions you made to get where you are today. And your friend too. Your experience is representative of one thing -- your experience.

[HockeyMom]

10. Oh, not just MY experience

look at the other posts. I didn't particularly single out the Catholic religion, but I did so because I went to their schools from 5 years old to 18 years old. Is that enough brainwashing? Far more than most of the terrorist Muslim converts. Not going to get into all the promises of the Glory of Heaven, or the Fire and Brimstones of Hell, but how different is that really from Islam with THEIR promises and threats?

Humans have free will. Did anyone threaten physical punishment in this life against the person or their families, in their case? This is where BRAINS come into play. You cannot force religion, ANY religion, on anyone. Learned enough Christian history to know that. People can go through the motions, and in their minds and privacy, do exactly the opposite. My feeling is that religion exists to control people which they do through promises and FEAR. In another of my OT, I posted John Lennon's "Imagine". That was decades after I came to the same conclusion.

[Junkpet]

27. No...

...neither humans nor any other organism has free will. All your experiences/learning (generalized or direct), environment and biology dictate your behavior. The only control you have is to control those contingencies which control you. Yes, that sounds like free will, but consider the loop and you'll quickly realize that, though we don't have fate either, humans have no more capacity to "make their own decisions" than anything else. Sure, it's so immensely complex that it's near impossible to untangle all the variables and to predict behavior, it's an important concept to understand if we're ever going to truly move forward and solve the problems that plague us.

[catbyte]

2. I tell people that I respect their faith/religion but it is a lie.

I guess I don't want to hurt their feelings or something, but I don't respect their religion. Not at all, but I never tell them that. I suppose that makes me spineless, I don't know.

[HockeyMom]

4. Same here

As long as they don't try to force, or legislate, their religion on anyone else, I don't care what they do in the private lives. Our family is still Catholic and we go to family weddings and funerals. When communions comes around, my husband and I just sit there. Nobody has ever asked us why. I will give them credit for that and minding their own business.

[CANDO]

29. I was raised Protestant

And I have pretty much rejected organized religion. I can't say I'm Atheist, but definitely agnostic. On the topic of communion, I was taught that unless you are "right with god", you shouldn't partake in communion. To this day, I've never taken communion. What drives me is being authentic. I've never felt comfortable in a religious setting because they've always felt contrived. I watched people speak in tongues and pass out under the influence of the holy spirit, but always got the impression that it was all a put-on. Both the tongues speaking and the passing out were always the same group of individuals within the church who I knew or felt were attention seekers.

[amuse bouche]

5. I used to be like that

But no more. Life is short. I no longer pretend. To me the word faith, now means fraud

[reformist2]

6. That's called tolerance. It's a good thing.

[catbyte]

9. That's a charitable way to look at it. Thank you!

[amuse bouche]

12. Not really

It's like tolerating bank robbers

It's simple cowardice

[catbyte]

18. Thanks for the cold cup of coffee

[amuse bouche]

21. Throw some ice, cream and sugar

in for a delightful taste sensation

[Arugula Latte]

7. To me, "respecting" religion means that you don't impede others from doing their own religious

thing, whatever it may be (unless it's harmful to others -- like the nuts who don't give their kids medical care). You can still go ahead and think that most of that nonsense is pure crap. Just because someone's mythology tells them that the world is 4,000-years-old doesn't mean you have to think that that belief is valid or worthy of esteem because it's labeled "faith." As Twain said, "Faith is believing what you know ain't so."

Unfortunately, a lot of religious institutions *cough - Catholic Church - cough - cough* think they should be able to impose their views on others through public policy. They don't respect the secular nature of the government. That is what pisses me off to no end.

[catbyte]

19. I despise the Catholic Church for deeply personal reasons related to the torture my mom

went through when she was forced to attend Catholic Indian School. She carried the physical & emotional scars her whole life. It's in cases like this I wish I believed in heaven & hell because those nuns and priests deserve to burn for eternity.

[Arugula Latte]

26. I'm sorry.

That is horrible.

Terrible things have been done to thousands and thousands of people in the Church's name. (Like the Magdalene laundries/asylum.) It's not the only evil-doer religion, of course, by any means.

[JI7]

11. i don't tell anyone i respect their faith, but i do judge them on what they do as anyone else

i don't think anyone is good or bad just because they are religious or not religious.

but i do find those who are religious and usually good tend to be the types who don't really talk about how good they are because of it. i'm often surprised to find out they are religious because they arne't the type to preach and think they are better than others.

but i think those type of people would be good anyways.

[amuse bouche]

3. We had similar early routes

Catholic schools and the shear hypocrisy by the people running them turned me sour to them.

I had to investigate and learn there were actual people who rejected it all.

Hallelujah...Freedom

I have come to believe people use religion to rationalize their hatred and bigotry

They hide behind the dogma to lay the blame of their actions and thoughts elsewhere. It is just so transparent and obvious

[FarCenter]

8. I lost my religion in confirmation class

Too many questions.

Too few answers that made any sense.

[amuse bouche]

14. lol

I got ejected from a CCD class for asking a question that befuddled the teacher

I was about 8 yo and asked..If God made Adam from nothing, why did he need to cut his rib for Eve?

Good grief, you would have thought I murdered someone. That day taught me how easy it was to get a rise out of them all.

[FarCenter]

17. IIRC I asked what a soul was

Never did get a straight answer. Have concluded that it is a vacuous concept.

[catbyte]

20. Ha. I got bounced from a Vacation Bible School a sitter dragged me to when I kept asking

who made God? The Baptists were not amused & my mom had to find another sitter the rest of that week, LOL.

[oldhippie]

16. Same here

Confirmation class for the Dutch Reformed Church. My parents wanted me to belong. I decided that I had enough of the malarkey. No one influenced me, the crazy bible stories just didn't make sense. I've never really been a believer, even at a very early age.

[amuse bouche]

22. It goes to show

their brainwashing doesn't work on all of us. At least not for long

[closeupready]

13. At a friend's funeral, his deeply religious family condemned him,

saying, "the wages of sin is death". That hurt me to know that this is how they regarded him, and I can't tolerate the lies that people believe and spread to others.

I try to keep my mouth shut, but if people are using their religious views in attempts to coercively keep other people down, that's when I speak up.

[hfojvt]

15. I bet lots of people influenced you

That you read books, talked to people, listened to people, watched TV shows, and movies, etc.

I don't believe you made your own decision in a vacuum, even if all these years later you cannot remember the things you read, heard, or saw that influenced your decision.

[HockeyMom]

23. Nuns, and especially Priests, influenced me

but to the negative. I had/have my own mind. I got into many an argument with a Priest as a teenage female. All they could give me was FAITH, and to shut up and BELIEVE. Sorry, not good enough. This is a major reason why I cannot understand what they say about Muslims. Their own don't question the radical agenda?

Even my parents, CINO's as some would say today, considered themselves AMERICANS first, and Catholic/Christian SECOND.

[randome]

24. Everyone has a tipping point at the confluence of individuality and the need to belong.

So many factors influence all of our decisions. It could be something you saw on TV at just the right moment. To say it was just YOU and nothing else makes it sound a little too easy, I think.

The books we read. The people we meet. The things we eat. All of these have an effect on the churning maelstrom of our personalities. If something sensible gains a foothold, is it because you willed it or because all those effects came together at just the right time?

Even saying that the nuns and priests had a negative influence on you. Well, something else had to be in place for that negative influence to gain hold, I think.

I'm an atheist like you (although I don't like to use any label, even that one) and I'm not trying to lessen the YOU that came to this decision. I just think all our decisions are much, MUCH more complicated than choosing a simple path.

[HockeyMom]

25. And what of my friend who converted to Islam

also with 12 years of Christian school? Who "converted" him? While my family wasn't religious, from what he told his family was. He rejected his family's religion, and all the religious education he had too.

People cannot come to their choices all on their own?

[kwassa]

28. It is not difficult to guess who your friend is.

I went and checked his bio, and everything lines up with your account and timeline.

[MellowDem]

30. No, childhood indoctrination into religion is not your own decision...

it may have been your decision to leave, but the majority don't, though here in the US, where there are more opportunities for education, it is more likely for people to eventually get over their childhood indoctrination.

Lots of people influenced you in your decision, everyone is influenced, it's just a matter of who or what ideas win out, and if you indoctrinate children from a young age in religion, you're much more likely to win out with your view.

Which is why it's by far the biggest way religions get their members. The way they keep them is mostly social/familial/cultural pressure and fear of hell. It certainly isn't through logical reasoning.