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kpete

(71,901 posts)
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 10:23 AM Apr 2013

KRUGMAN: On "Permanent Class Of Jobless Americans"-"Let’s be clear: this is a policy decision."

OP-ED COLUMNIST
The Jobless Trap
By PAUL KRUGMAN
Published: April 21, 2013 5



..................

So we are indeed creating a permanent class of jobless Americans.

And let’s be clear: this is a policy decision. The main reason our economic recovery has been so weak is that, spooked by fear-mongering over debt, we’ve been doing exactly what basic macroeconomics says you shouldn’t do — cutting government spending in the face of a depressed economy.

It’s hard to overstate how self-destructive this policy is. Indeed, the shadow of long-term unemployment means that austerity policies are counterproductive even in purely fiscal terms. Workers, after all, are taxpayers too; if our debt obsession exiles millions of Americans from productive employment, it will cut into future revenues and raise future deficits.

Our exaggerated fear of debt is, in short, creating a slow-motion catastrophe. It’s ruining many lives, and at the same time making us poorer and weaker in every way. And the longer we persist in this folly, the greater the damage will be.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Read it all:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/22/opinion/krugman-the-jobless-trap.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0

94 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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KRUGMAN: On "Permanent Class Of Jobless Americans"-"Let’s be clear: this is a policy decision." (Original Post) kpete Apr 2013 OP
It's not just foolish. It's vicious, and greedy and cruel and immoral. woo me with science Apr 2013 #1
It is economic treason. Occulus Apr 2013 #66
If you dig to the root of every single conservative economic policy it's always cheap labor n/t Fumesucker Apr 2013 #2
Yeah, it's not *just* racism that makes "the party of Lincoln" hate Lincoln n/t nxylas Apr 2013 #17
I agree, and that's why labor rights and the labor movement are so important. senseandsensibility Apr 2013 #79
It's the fact that we allow a handful of CEOs and board members to make decisions fasttense Apr 2013 #84
Yep... IthinkThereforeIAM Apr 2013 #93
When "we" let Republicans control the terms of debate... vi5 Apr 2013 #3
This is not a psychological problem. woo me with science Apr 2013 #4
No argument from me.... vi5 Apr 2013 #6
So we spin our wheels "battling corporate money", wheres the votes? xtraxritical Apr 2013 #35
That's BS. vi5 Apr 2013 #50
It looks like you're a veritable expert on BS so I'll defer. You just keep xtraxritical Apr 2013 #54
Good retort. vi5 Apr 2013 #67
+1000 Of course it's B.S. woo me with science Apr 2013 #57
It's just incredible the number of trolls and dinos here, I'll stick with BS on you. xtraxritical Apr 2013 #69
obama had a democratic majority when he took office. HiPointDem Apr 2013 #60
Yes. And much too much of this woo me with science Apr 2013 #62
I notice that chervilant Apr 2013 #92
^^ THIS ^^ n/t OneGrassRoot Apr 2013 #7
+100. antigop Apr 2013 #11
+10000000000! n/t Triana Apr 2013 #13
I've been saying this for some time now Plucketeer Apr 2013 #16
We have a systemic problem of corporate money in EVERYthing that we need to fix. HughBeaumont Apr 2013 #18
I agree 100% hifiguy Apr 2013 #43
Bingo! sikofit3 Apr 2013 #47
I call it the everything for profit model & it's going to destroy everything CrispyQ Apr 2013 #48
Bingo! daleanime Apr 2013 #55
+100000 Yes. woo me with science Apr 2013 #65
I so agree! NT juajen Apr 2013 #82
Yes yes yes yes yes! AlbertCat Apr 2013 #19
Diagnosis is 100% accurate. Now how to cure disease? on point Apr 2013 #20
Step one.. Term limits.. SomethingFishy Apr 2013 #37
Great post. woo me with science Apr 2013 #58
Disagree on Term Limits Martin Eden Apr 2013 #78
Woo, you hit the nail on the head. dotymed Apr 2013 #39
+1000. closeupready Apr 2013 #44
+1 leftstreet Apr 2013 #63
Is it just GREEED, or does IDEOLOGY also play a large part in this? Martin Eden Apr 2013 #77
Agree Cliff Arnebeck Apr 2013 #5
The Washington Villagers all go to the same cocktail parties... Spitfire of ATJ Apr 2013 #53
Bingo! ctsnowman Apr 2013 #90
X 1000 ctsnowman Apr 2013 #89
It is leading to a suicide epidemic... OneGrassRoot Apr 2013 #8
Reading at the link. Sad. L0oniX Apr 2013 #23
This is exactly what the 1%ers want hifiguy Apr 2013 #45
Exactly. They want most of us dead. The majority of us. LiberalLoner Apr 2013 #49
It will only get worse. nt woo me with science Apr 2013 #88
expect no help from the dem party on this issue. KG Apr 2013 #9
No. Dems will only SLOW the regression, not stop or reverse it. closeupready Apr 2013 #46
The business class fears full employment because it gives workers too much power. The bosses byeya Apr 2013 #10
IMHO, the desired rate of unemployment among the super-rich is beyond 6%. AnotherMcIntosh Apr 2013 #22
IMO, you are correct but as a fig leaf to federal law, the Fed claims to be aiming at 6%. byeya Apr 2013 #25
Neither party has any intention of fixing the problem because duffyduff Apr 2013 #12
It's a no-brainer ... but somehow deficits are taking a priority, even though ... Fantastic Anarchist Apr 2013 #14
Austerity = jobs lost = less revenue = more austerity = more jobs lost = less revenue = more aust... L0oniX Apr 2013 #15
High levels of UE allow the currency to be inflated without creating hyper-inflation Yavin4 Apr 2013 #21
People need to understand that monopolistic capital enterprises - who swing the most political byeya Apr 2013 #27
Maybe we should stop rewarding companies that offshore abelenkpe Apr 2013 #24
This "fear of debt" only started in the year 2008 Canuckistanian Apr 2013 #26
It also started with the election of Clinton byeya Apr 2013 #29
It started with the stagnation of the economy in Japan. JDPriestly Apr 2013 #41
as well as the end of the "WAR ON TERROR" Cosmocat Apr 2013 #87
Oh, I've believed this for some time. If there is high unemployment, there are lower wages Cleita Apr 2013 #28
I agree with you. Incrementalism doesn't work when you're talking about major shifts in byeya Apr 2013 #31
I think it needs to be longer and crippling. Cleita Apr 2013 #32
"A day or two of unpaid leave" was tongue in cheek. You are correct that people of good will byeya Apr 2013 #38
A general strike is a very powerful tool for getting WHEN CRABS ROAR Apr 2013 #75
What causes countries to devolve into chaos and poverty and caste systems? JDPriestly Apr 2013 #30
W/O detracting from the points you made, I would say the heirs of the WalMart fortune and NOT more byeya Apr 2013 #33
True. But even if they are more capable, and some are, then they are a part of society JDPriestly Apr 2013 #42
Amen to that. Humans are social beings and create societies and as much as the over-weathy byeya Apr 2013 #71
They still need workers and this is where the underclasses have strength if they Cleita Apr 2013 #34
This is a terrible policy decision that was created because the midnight Apr 2013 #36
K&R Meanwhile Obama is taking this golden opportunity to push for his pet, Chained CPI MotherPetrie Apr 2013 #40
Obama Proposal Gives Americans A Pathway Back to Work ProSense Apr 2013 #51
Since you are bringing up Krugman in this context . . . markpkessinger Apr 2013 #68
Actually, ProSense Apr 2013 #70
BOTH parties support massive increase in 'guest workers' RIGHT NOW markiv Apr 2013 #52
yes, they just voted for a massive increase in h1bs too HiPointDem Apr 2013 #61
and it's global florida08 Apr 2013 #56
big kr HiPointDem Apr 2013 #59
This is an important OP. "This is a POLICY DECISION." woo me with science Apr 2013 #64
Krugman is a main stream economist and a good one and it's been fun watching him learn byeya Apr 2013 #73
There wasn't much talk of debt when Bush and his minions were LibDemAlways Apr 2013 #72
K&R forestpath Apr 2013 #74
I like secondvariety Apr 2013 #76
Wow. ctsnowman Apr 2013 #91
The monied interests that own this country and DC are eating just fine, thank you. blkmusclmachine Apr 2013 #80
Yeah, but that leisure extraordinaire could be short lived... Amonester Apr 2013 #81
K/R yep. nt limpyhobbler Apr 2013 #83
du rec. nt xchrom Apr 2013 #85
Actually it's one of the lies that perpetually annoys me. Savannahmann Apr 2013 #86
Kicking for this important issue. n/t area51 Apr 2013 #94

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
1. It's not just foolish. It's vicious, and greedy and cruel and immoral.
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 10:30 AM
Apr 2013

It is being done because the corporations profit from a desperate workforce, and greedy, boot-licking politicians oblige.

Occulus

(20,599 posts)
66. It is economic treason.
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 05:33 PM
Apr 2013

We should call it what it is. It is intentional, and it is being brought to us by people who out and out lied to elected. THAT is fraud, involving public monies at all levels, and it could and should be argued is in itself an actual crime.

senseandsensibility

(16,713 posts)
79. I agree, and that's why labor rights and the labor movement are so important.
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 09:29 PM
Apr 2013

That's also why labor history is never to be spoken about on corporate TV or taught in schools.

 

fasttense

(17,301 posts)
84. It's the fact that we allow a handful of CEOs and board members to make decisions
Tue Apr 23, 2013, 06:08 AM
Apr 2013

over the wealth we create. We workers create the products, provide the service and build the structures. Why don't we workers control the wealth that we create from those products, services and structures? Why do we allow CEOs and board members to take the things we create and make money off them? Why don't we make the decisions of what to do with our creations and what to do with the profit from our creations? Why do we turn those decisions over to a handful of corrupted men? The whole structure of corporations is what is destroying our country.

By letting them make those decisions over the wealth we create, we are giving them money to buy our political system. So that when and if rational laws are passed to control corruption and excess, these CEOs, bosses and board members use that wealth to overturn rational regulations.

We have to take back the wealth that we make.

 

vi5

(13,305 posts)
3. When "we" let Republicans control the terms of debate...
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 10:34 AM
Apr 2013

This is what happens.

When "we" try to play nice and aknowledge some merit in the other's side's viewpoints (even when there is none) so as to seem "fair":

This is what happens.

When "we" don't vigorously make the case for the historical and economic data that proves and shows time and again that progressive economic policies benefit the entire country and make the economy stronger:

This is what happens.

Republican obstructionism or not, fillibuster or not, our elected Democratic politicians should have been out there calling bullshit on this manufactured deficit hysteria from day one. But much like the Irag war they instead chose to cower and instead chose to try and win the love and affection of beltway "centrists" and the "serious" people in DC. And now we are all paying the price.

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
4. This is not a psychological problem.
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 10:43 AM
Apr 2013
Our problem with elected Democrats is not that they are "trying to win love and affection."

Our problem is that they work for corporate interests
, just like Republicans do. Our problem is corporate money in government, both parties. Our problem is Wall Street's purchase of our government and our elections, and their bankrolling of groups like ALEC and the Third Way, and their purchase of the media. It is a problem of corporate money purchasing candidates and purchasing policy.

It is important for us to be clear about this. The one percent would love us to spend another four years bewailing the psychological state of our Democrats, and doing nothing to solve the problem.

We have a systemic problem of corporate money in politics, that we need to fix.


 

vi5

(13,305 posts)
6. No argument from me....
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 11:13 AM
Apr 2013

That is most definitely a bigger part of it. I was merely oversimplifying with snark, lest I be compelled to go on a much longer rant on this subject. The point being I am with you 100%.

 

xtraxritical

(3,576 posts)
35. So we spin our wheels "battling corporate money", wheres the votes?
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 01:17 PM
Apr 2013

None of these problems can be addressed until we get strong Democratic majorities in all three branches of government. If we keep wailing about "corporate money" our funding will dry up and we'll have no chance of reaching our goals. You're just giving a gift to the RepubliCONs and the Kochs. Get real people, get out the vote and stop broadcasting the "negative" information.

 

vi5

(13,305 posts)
50. That's BS.
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 02:42 PM
Apr 2013

Yes, we need a democratic majority. But that doesn't excuse the Democrats who are in office from acting and speaking and voting as they do.

It's two separate issues and not mutually exclusive. So we're not allowed to want and work for a Democratic majority while still being able to complain about the Democrats we do have being horrible at messaging and communicating and for not giving full throated voice to progressive economic issues and/or not buying into painfully obvious spin and horseshit?

We can play chicken or the egg all day long. By the same token of needing that majority I'd say it's pretty goddamned hard to actively convince people they should vote Democratic when most of the time what they see is Democrats addressing things with Republican framing and proposing solutions based on Republican talking points and ideology.

It's awful hard to convince people that the deficit hysteria and especially the tie in to Social Security/Medicaire/Medicaid is bogus when the leaders of our party stand up there and talk about it as though the issue is real and those things are tied into it.

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
57. +1000 Of course it's B.S.
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 04:27 PM
Apr 2013

And the poster obviously was unable to respond to the points you made, except with a juvenile insult.

There is no good argument for not addressing the corruption of money in the system, so the defenders will always resort to diversion or pollution of the thread with unpleasantness.

One way the defenders of corporate policy seem to try to discourage these important discussions is to try to make them so juvenile and socially unpleasant that people will keep silent instead of speaking out.

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
62. Yes. And much too much of this
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 04:51 PM
Apr 2013

Last edited Tue Apr 23, 2013, 10:39 AM - Edit history (1)

Corporate and bank-cozy appointments, over and over again, including major appointments like:
A serial defender of corrupt bankers for the SEC; the architect of "Kill Lists" and supporter of torture, drone wars, and telecom immunity for the CIA; and a Monsanto VP who has lied and been involved in extremely disturbing claims regarding food safety for the FDA. An Attorney General who has not prosecuted a single large bank but wages war against medical marijuana users and *for* strip searches and warrantless surveillance of Americans. And let's not forget Tim Geithner.
Bailouts and settlements for corrupt banks (with personal pressure from Obama to attorneys general to approve them),
Refusal by Obama's DOJ to prosecute even huge, egregious examples of bank fraud (i.e, HSBC)
signing NDAA to allow indefinite detention,
"Kill lists" and claiming of the right to assassinate even American citizens without trial
Expansion of wars into several new countries
A renewed public advocacy for the concept of preemptive war
Drone campaigns in multiple countries with whom we are not at war
Proliferation of military drones in our skies
Federal targeting of Occupy for surveillance and militarized response to peaceful protesters
Fighting all the way to the Supreme Court for warrantless surveillance
Fighting all the way to the Supreme Court for strip searches for any arrestee
Supporting and signing Internet-censoring and privacy-violating measures like ACTA
Support for corporate groping and naked scanning of Americans seeking to travel
A new, massive spy center for warrantless access to Americans' phone calls, emails, and internet use
Support of legislation to legalize massive surveillance of Americans
Militarized police departments, through federal grants
Marijuana users and medical marijuana clinics under assault,
Skyrocketing of the budget for prisons.
Failing to veto a bipartisan vote in Congress to gut more financial regulations.
Passionate speeches and press conferences promoting austerity for Americans
Bush tax cuts extended for billionaires, them much of it made permanent
Support for the payroll tax holiday, tying SS to the general fund
Support for the vicious chained CPI cut in Social Security and benefits for the disabled
Social security, Medicare, and Medicaid offered up as bargaining chips in budget negotiations, with No mention of cutting corporate welfare or the military budget
Advocacy of multiple new free trade agreements, including The Trans-Pacific, otherwise known as "NAFTA on steroids."
Support of drilling, pipelines, and selling off portions of the Gulf of Mexico
Corporate education policy including high stakes corporate testing and closures of public schools
Legal assault on the union protections of hundreds of thoudands of federal employees
New policies of targeting children and first responders in drone campaigns,
New policies of awarding medals for remote drone attacks,
Appointment of private prison executives to head the US Marshal's office
Massive escalation of federal contracts for private prisons under US Marshall's office


had nothing to do with Republican obstruction anyway.

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
92. I notice that
Tue Apr 23, 2013, 09:49 AM
Apr 2013

your rather erudite summation of the glaring "missteps" of the current administration has garnered a thunderous sound of silence.

...or, is it crickets?

Neither of our "two parties" resemble the parties with which I came of age. My father was IBEW all the way, and encouraged me to read and understand everything about Watergate (the only thing he liked about Tricky Dick was the pardon he gave 'felons' charged with possessing small amounts of marijuana). For many US citizens, Watergate was the iconic unveiling of the "man" behind the curtain.

We MUST get beyond these discussions that deteriorate into derisive and divisive comparisons of the "two parties." The ruthless corporate megalomaniacs own and control our media, our politics, AND our global economy. The "two parties" do THEIR bidding, throwing us little folk a pathetic bone every so often, primarily to succor anew the derision and divisiveness--a distracted citizenry is much easier to control.

 

Plucketeer

(12,882 posts)
16. I've been saying this for some time now
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 11:41 AM
Apr 2013

Like other DUers, I make noise or take actions(s) on the various things our legislators are supposed to address. Each cause - a battle of it's own. And each cause - supported (or opposed) by SOME big monied, special interest working JUST outside the public's field of vision. We MAY even achieve a victory on one issue now and then - mainly on issues that don't have the monied's interests at heart. The truth is, while the individual battles ARE of worth, it's the overall war of special interest influence (money) that we're losing.
Heh - our Rethug congressdolt - has NEVER held an open town hall or Q&A of any sort in the decade he's been in DC. So now - how the HELL does he know what the mood and attitudes of his constituents is??? But not to worry! He's got nicely lined coffers made cushy by corporate farming interests. As a consequence, he needs NO input from the average citizenry he supposedly speaks (and votes) for. Never ONCE has he asked his district: "How would you have me vote on this?" Not once. This performance is basically a crap in the face of those who keep voting him back to DC. And these folks vote how they're TOLD, not on a rep's performance. The money's gotta be removed so that regular folks can act on common sense and need instead of nonsense and greed.

HughBeaumont

(24,461 posts)
18. We have a systemic problem of corporate money in EVERYthing that we need to fix.
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 11:47 AM
Apr 2013

EVERYthing has to be about going beyond just making A BUCK. Health. Education. Human Rights. Culture. Work. Religion. Entertainment. Journalism (or what's left of it). Leisure. Tourism. Transportation.

Government and Politics.

To hell with "WE" . . . What's in it for "ME"?

We're not progressing into the 20th century, let alone the 21st, because corporate and wealthy interests have to have their needs met first, foremost and ONLY.

Think about a simple issue of Universal Health Care.

Tell me, WHAT'S in it for the wealthy to keep it from happening in this country? What's in it for the upper echelons of Corporate America, and in turn, Government, to keep America from resolving a long-term human rights failing?

None of their GREAT-Grandchildren at this point are ever going to be financially affected by a catastrophic medical bill, let alone their present selves.

There are certain things that a normal, non-Ovarian-Lottery-Winning human being cannot pay for out of pocket, and six-digit medical bills and five-digit education bills are two of them.

In WHOSE national interests is it to have an uneducated, sick and dying population?

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
43. I agree 100%
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 01:34 PM
Apr 2013

Everything in this country revolves around making money by any means possible, fair or foul, while the pious hypocrisies of endless opportunity and 'murkan exceptionalism are used to bamboozle the sheeple.

I just got a job offer that will require me to relocate to Hangzhou, China. The company itself is owned and run by Germans. I am gone like shit through a goose as soon as the bureaucratic stuff is completed. The Chinese are at least honest: "This is our system and it is what it is. Take it or leave it." That I can at least somewhat respect.

After 25 years of being treated like dogshit in the professional world despite being a law school classmate of the FLOTUS (I am from a very working class background and was diagnosed Aspergers eight years ago) I have reached the Popeye point: "I've had all I can stands and I can't stands no more."

I cannot imagine what would ever motivate me to return to the US.

CrispyQ

(36,230 posts)
48. I call it the everything for profit model & it's going to destroy everything
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 02:14 PM
Apr 2013

fine & beautiful on this planet. Love of money is the root of all evil. Well maybe not all evil, but it sure is the root of a whole ton of suffering & stupidity here on planet Earth.

A government of, by & for The People would provide the following:

- 3 hots & a cot
- health care
- round the clock child/elder care
- education through college
- decent public transportation everywhere

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
65. +100000 Yes.
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 05:30 PM
Apr 2013

The economic assaults and craven sellouts are multiplying on every single front now, assisted by our own government. They will find a way to charge us for the air we breathe.

SomethingFishy

(4,876 posts)
37. Step one.. Term limits..
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 01:18 PM
Apr 2013

Step two no more "legal" insider trading in congress. Step three limits on lobbying gifts. Step four, no politician is allowed to leave office and work for a company in which they lobbied for, gave a contract to or passed a law for. Stop the revolving door between Wall Street and Washington.

Our problem as a nation is that the only way we measure success is wealth. The richer you are the more successful you are. We don't value knowledge, insight, compassion and love... In general anyway...

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
58. Great post.
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 04:37 PM
Apr 2013

It is important to start talking specifics.

But I love your summary, too....because, really, what we are talking about is changing the malignant messages and corporate brainwashing that we are marinated in from birth. We are talking about changing the values and priorities of our nation.

Martin Eden

(12,803 posts)
78. Disagree on Term Limits
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 08:40 PM
Apr 2013

I agree with the rest, but term limits would encourage the revolving door. Genuine public servants like Dennis Kucinich would be booted out just as they were beginning to become effective lawmakers and champions of the public interest. Many who would want that kind of career would be dissuaded because they'd have to abandon it when the limit is up. We'd have a Congress full of rookies learning the ropes, and very likely a bunch of short term advantage seekers. There will always be ways to parlay that time in office into something more lucrative in the private sector whose interests were represented.

We have to cut the cord between corporate/one percenter cash and campaign financing. Almost everything else is a symptom of that core disease.

dotymed

(5,610 posts)
39. Woo, you hit the nail on the head.
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 01:22 PM
Apr 2013

Most at DU will not admit that most democrats are sold also....including the POTUS obviously.

If we do not run a Bernie Sanders type of president soon, IMO, we will never regain (at least some) control of "our" govt. We KNOW the dlc and media will be gunning for a real person as our leader.
It will take d&r's to elect him/her.
Trying to get election reform from those who need reformed is impossible. It will take a leader who will stand among the majority and get dirty.
America is almost a third world nation already. One more 4 year term from a fascist will seal the deal.

Martin Eden

(12,803 posts)
77. Is it just GREEED, or does IDEOLOGY also play a large part in this?
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 08:29 PM
Apr 2013

Without a doubt our erstwhile democracy is corrupted and owned by the corporate oligarchy.

But I have difficulty understanding how the profit motive would yield a policy destructive to economic growth. When Joe six-pack has money in his pocket, corporations end up with that money when he spends it. I understand why the 1% refuses tax hikes and cuts to the MIC, but why would they want austerity when deficit spending will put more money in their bank accounts?

I think there must be a strong ideological desire on their part to destroy the New Deal and Great Society while there is an opportunity to do it. They're willing to forego profits in the near term to realize a long term goal.

On second thought, at the core of that ideology and their long term goal is lust for wealth and power on an even larger scale -- unfettered CORPORATOCRACY.

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
53. The Washington Villagers all go to the same cocktail parties...
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 03:18 PM
Apr 2013

I picture people like Tweety grabbing off the hors dourve tray as it goes by and bloviating at one end of the room and Hannity doing the same at the other end of the room.

OneGrassRoot

(22,917 posts)
8. It is leading to a suicide epidemic...
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 11:19 AM
Apr 2013

especially in those in their 40's and 50's, too young for retirement though too old to obtain a livable wage, having no safety net any longer, and thus feeling they are literally worth more dead than alive.

I have a friend who is director of a suicide crisis center in a major metropolitan area, and we've been discussing this growing horror.

Just look at the captions from the various letters sent in to gawker regarding long-term unemployment. It's fucking heartbreaking...and maddening...because the bulk of the suffering is SO UNNECESSARY!!!!!!!!!!!!!



http://gawker.com/tag/hello-from-the-underclass

LiberalLoner

(9,761 posts)
49. Exactly. They want most of us dead. The majority of us.
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 02:29 PM
Apr 2013

The resources are running out fast and so they need to cull the herd so they have enough for themselves and their children.

 

byeya

(2,842 posts)
10. The business class fears full employment because it gives workers too much power. The bosses
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 11:28 AM
Apr 2013

want approx. 6% unemployment to keep the cards stacked in their favor. They even have taken to calling it "the natural rate of unemloyment" which, of course, is BS.
Why do you think Bernacke has said he will stop QE3 when the unemployment rate nears 6.5%? Even though the Federal Reserve has the dual charge of containing inflation AND promoting full employment, Ben is siding with his class against wage earners.

 

AnotherMcIntosh

(11,064 posts)
22. IMHO, the desired rate of unemployment among the super-rich is beyond 6%.
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 12:03 PM
Apr 2013

And the "official" unemployment numbers are bogus.

 

byeya

(2,842 posts)
25. IMO, you are correct but as a fig leaf to federal law, the Fed claims to be aiming at 6%.
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 12:59 PM
Apr 2013

It's interesting that austerity undermines to monetary policy of the Fed and other central banks around the world. Austerity mainly inflates the stock market at the expense of jobs and wages and austerity mainly pumps up the borrowers at the expense of savers.
The ultras are getting it both ways to their financial advantage.

 

duffyduff

(3,251 posts)
12. Neither party has any intention of fixing the problem because
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 11:31 AM
Apr 2013

both subscribe to discredited and debunked "globalism" pushed by neoliberals which is a race to the economic bottom.

Fantastic Anarchist

(7,309 posts)
14. It's a no-brainer ... but somehow deficits are taking a priority, even though ...
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 11:37 AM
Apr 2013

... our policies will increase them!

 

L0oniX

(31,493 posts)
15. Austerity = jobs lost = less revenue = more austerity = more jobs lost = less revenue = more aust...
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 11:39 AM
Apr 2013

erity ....and outsourcing jobs = less revenue ....LESS TAX REVENUE

Yavin4

(35,357 posts)
21. High levels of UE allow the currency to be inflated without creating hyper-inflation
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 11:53 AM
Apr 2013

That was the lesson of the 1970s. Back then, we inflated the currency in order to pay off the Vietnam war. The problem was that American labor was heavily unionized, so whenever cost of living rose, so did the pay of a large percentage of American workers. Paul Volcker, the then-chair of the FRB, killed off hyperinflation with 20% interest rates.

Policy makers need a steady rate inflation in order to pay for our MIC, and our banks need it in order to pay back shitty loans. The key to creating this steady stream of inflation is to cut labor out of the picture. Hence, the permanent UE class.

 

byeya

(2,842 posts)
27. People need to understand that monopolistic capital enterprises - who swing the most political
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 01:05 PM
Apr 2013

weight - have pricing power so inflation for them is not the horror they claim it is. Strong unions can successfully demand cost of living increases that keep their purchasing power.
It's the rentier class that suffers and the capitalists invariably side with them against labor.(Also hurt are savers and pensioners but they don't have the clout or the friends that the rentier's have.)

abelenkpe

(9,933 posts)
24. Maybe we should stop rewarding companies that offshore
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 12:35 PM
Apr 2013

with tax breaks and subsidies? Maybe we should so something about countries that offer subsidies to lure work away from our shores. Maybe if our country valued workers (aka taxpayers) and had reasonable trade policies we wouldn't be losing good paying jobs and could hire more people here?

One thing that has to change though is health care attached to employment. No one wants to hire workers over age 50 because they fear that they will be saddled with large health care expenses. It is simply a fact of life that the cost of health care rises as we age. We need single payer. Now. Every day we wait more and more people over 50 will find it difficult if not impossible to find work. That's what is so cruel about third way and republican plans to raise the age of eligibility for ss and medicare. WTF are people supposed to do between age 50 and 67?

Canuckistanian

(42,290 posts)
26. This "fear of debt" only started in the year 2008
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 01:03 PM
Apr 2013

Funny how that coincides with the the election of Obama.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
41. It started with the stagnation of the economy in Japan.
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 01:26 PM
Apr 2013

The right-wing experts blamed what looked like statistically slow growth on the high debt of the Japanese government.

That scared everyone. But I don't understand what caused Japan to fall into such economic stupor. Perhaps the economy of Japan is not really as stagnant as we hear?

Krugman adjusted the growth statistics to compensate for the fact that the Japanese population is on the average older than ours. Krugman took into account the fact that so many Japanese live very long and discovered that maybe Japan is not doing as miserably as many Americans of the Heritage Foundation ilk think.

Here is an article discussing Krugman's optimistic statements about the Japanese economy.

Not only is he right in dismissing the basket case story but if you look at the aggregates that matter to Japanese policymakers, it is clear that Japan has done far better than the United States over the last two decades. For a start Japan has increased its net overseas assets by nearly $3 trillion — at a time when the United States’s net overseas LIABILITIES ballooned by $8 trillion. Underlying this contrasting trajectory is the fact that Japan ranks with Germany as the only major advanced nations with super-strong current account surpluses (the current account is the widest measure of trade and is not affected by the distortions caused by rampant transfer pricing, which have disguised the strength of Japan’s visible trade in recent years).

Almost everywhere you look in the details of the Japan story you find that the basket case story could not be further from the truth. Just look at Japanese corporations. Virtually without exception they have continued to boost their revenues — and maintained their employment levels — in the face of a constantly rising yen. The Japanese car industry, for instance, has continued to make extraordinary gains. Toyota boasted sales in its latest fiscal year to $259.5 billion, more than three times its 1989 total of $84.1 billion. And this in a year when output was greatly curtailed by the earthquake. Nissan meanwhile clocked $119.0 billion, also more than triple 1989. Similarly the rest of the Japanese auto industry has gone from strength to strength. The same cannot be said for Detroit. Ford Motor’s sales last year totaled $133.3 billion, up a mere 44 percent on $92.4 billion in 1989. General Motors’s sales were $150.3 billion, up just 24 percent on $121.1 billion in 1989. Not only have the Detroit companies retreated in the face of Japanese advances in the American domestic market but their European subsidiaries have also long been ceding share, as have such European players as Peugeot-Citroen, Volvo, Jaguar, and, of course, Renault.

Moreover the official growth numbers Krugman is working with actually greatly understate Japan’s true performance. This is because in recent years the Japanese Finance Ministry has taken to using the most conservative possible methods to calculate growth. Why? Because the basket case story is a great boon in fending off pressure for the opening of Japan’s still largely closed markets. It also keeps hot money out of the yen and shields Tokyo from lobbying by foreign foundations and governments seeking everything from educational grants to foreign aid.

As for Japan’s demographics, these are conventionally presented as obvious evidence of Japan’s “malaise.” They are actually the opposite. The reason Japan’s demographics are aging so fast is because the Japanese health service has achieved extraordinary success in boosting the Japanese people’s life expectancy. It should be remembered that in the late 1940s Japanese life expectancy at birth was eleven years shorter than in the United States. Now it is four years longer. Meanwhile the Japanese government went from promoting very large families in the 1930s to small families from the late 1940s onwards.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/eamonnfingleton/2013/02/06/paul-krugman-says-it-again-japans-stagnation-is-a-myth/

Cosmocat

(14,543 posts)
87. as well as the end of the "WAR ON TERROR"
Tue Apr 23, 2013, 06:42 AM
Apr 2013

January of 2009, the whole, you can't criticize the COMMANDER IN CHIEF when there are troops in the field thing came to an abrupt end. And, as noted, the world is coming to an end because of the debt that was piled up the previous 8 years became THE point of discussion.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
28. Oh, I've believed this for some time. If there is high unemployment, there are lower wages
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 01:06 PM
Apr 2013

all around. The PTB know how to create jobs and lower unemployment. They have decided this other way works better for their bottom lines. They don't care about how destructive it is as long as their portfolios are profitable. We really need a general strike by the 99%. Nobody, who works, goes to work until this is resolved.

 

byeya

(2,842 posts)
31. I agree with you. Incrementalism doesn't work when you're talking about major shifts in
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 01:12 PM
Apr 2013

how society functions. However, it is more effective to strike when there is full employment; but then solidarity is even more difficult to attain and maintain.
We all need a day or so of unpaid, unapproved, leave.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
32. I think it needs to be longer and crippling.
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 01:14 PM
Apr 2013

To do that will take some long term planning, like setting up food banks and food exchanges as well as bartering for goods and services among the 99% so we still are able to survive but they can't. The time as come.

 

byeya

(2,842 posts)
38. "A day or two of unpaid leave" was tongue in cheek. You are correct that people of good will
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 01:21 PM
Apr 2013

and ordinary means need to be as prepared as possible for a long term action. One problem is that infiltrators and rats will bring down the conspiracy laws on many people - remember Oliver North's long term detention camps plans? - and great sacrifices will have to be made.
Occupy refused to interact with organizations that could reasonably be expected to side with them and refused to make known their plans and goals to avert, as much as possible, the power of police and the laws on the books to prevent a successful peaceful beginning to winning back the concept of We The People.

WHEN CRABS ROAR

(3,813 posts)
75. A general strike is a very powerful tool for getting
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 07:26 PM
Apr 2013

outcomes that would never be voted on by either party, it also has the moral high ground in the fact that it is non- violent.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
30. What causes countries to devolve into chaos and poverty and caste systems?
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 01:11 PM
Apr 2013

Greed on the part of the very powerful.

Are the powerful very often more capable than some of those they take advantage of? Probably.

But are the fates of the powerful nevertheless dependent in some mysterious way on the fate of the entire society and therefore of the poorest and most mediocre in their society?

Yes. Most definitely.

 

byeya

(2,842 posts)
33. W/O detracting from the points you made, I would say the heirs of the WalMart fortune and NOT more
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 01:15 PM
Apr 2013

capable then the average American; they seem to be very average at best.

Nepotism plays a part in who is the exploiter and who is the exploited.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
42. True. But even if they are more capable, and some are, then they are a part of society
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 01:28 PM
Apr 2013

and cannot live this Ayn Rand dream of the independent, high and mighty superman. It isn't real.

 

byeya

(2,842 posts)
71. Amen to that. Humans are social beings and create societies and as much as the over-weathy
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 07:01 PM
Apr 2013

want to believe otherwise, they are part of it too and unless all strata function, even the lord high moguls will eventually have problems.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
34. They still need workers and this is where the underclasses have strength if they
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 01:15 PM
Apr 2013

exercise that strength with solidarity and determination.

midnight

(26,624 posts)
36. This is a terrible policy decision that was created because the
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 01:18 PM
Apr 2013

profits from prison labor are so much rewarding....

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
51. Obama Proposal Gives Americans A Pathway Back to Work
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 03:09 PM
Apr 2013
Obama Proposal Gives Americans A Pathway Back to Work
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022735360

I'm glad Krugman making an issue of the austerity lie.

'The Excel Error Heard Round the World'
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022686815

markpkessinger

(8,381 posts)
68. Since you are bringing up Krugman in this context . . .
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 05:58 PM
Apr 2013

. . . you shouldn't neglect to mention that Dr. Krugman has been very critical of the President's budget proposal, precisely because its priorities are based on the assumptions of that study that contained "the Escel Error Heard Round the World."

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/04/10/imaginary-grownups/

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
70. Actually,
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 06:26 PM
Apr 2013

"Since you are bringing up Krugman in this context . . . you shouldn't neglect to mention that Dr. Krugman has been very critical of the President's budget proposal, precisely because its priorities are based on the assumptions of that study that contained 'the Escel Error Heard Round the World.'"

...I saw that: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2650393

I tend not to ignore what Krugman writes.

Did you make a point about the proposal I posted?



 

markiv

(1,489 posts)
52. BOTH parties support massive increase in 'guest workers' RIGHT NOW
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 03:12 PM
Apr 2013

'gang of 8 is the definition of bipartisan

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
64. This is an important OP. "This is a POLICY DECISION."
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 05:17 PM
Apr 2013

We have for too long been fed the lie that the economy is like weather, attacking randomly despite the efforts of noble politicians. People will endure a great deal of suffering if they believe it is unavoidable and people are working on their behalf. But the lie is falling apart.

The fact is that we are being looted and transformed, through policy, into a corporate state.

It is good to see such a bold statement of the truth, that these predatory policies are CHOSEN.

 

byeya

(2,842 posts)
73. Krugman is a main stream economist and a good one and it's been fun watching him learn
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 07:08 PM
Apr 2013

to take firm well reasoned stands against the shills and stooges of his profession. It's nice to see someone with ethical standards.

Yep, it's a policy decision and from my little vantage point, another lousy one which won't do the wage earners and pensioners much good. Just the opposite.

LibDemAlways

(15,139 posts)
72. There wasn't much talk of debt when Bush and his minions were
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 07:04 PM
Apr 2013

ruining the economy by waging 2 wars on a credit card. Only when Obama took over did the Repukes get concerned about the debt. They are determined to destroy the economy any way they can, while the Dems aid and abet.

 

blkmusclmachine

(16,149 posts)
80. The monied interests that own this country and DC are eating just fine, thank you.
Tue Apr 23, 2013, 12:08 AM
Apr 2013

Champagne and caviar for them, salmonella and e coli for you.

Amonester

(11,541 posts)
81. Yeah, but that leisure extraordinaire could be short lived...
Tue Apr 23, 2013, 12:28 AM
Apr 2013

And those relatively few (1%) who live it should read everything about New York, 1929-30, or even Versailles 1788-1789.

 

Savannahmann

(3,891 posts)
86. Actually it's one of the lies that perpetually annoys me.
Tue Apr 23, 2013, 06:26 AM
Apr 2013

Some things I've noticed. Despite record unemployment, and the numbers we're getting from the Politicians who fear lynching if they tell the truth are bogus, we don't have a homeless problem. Do you want to know how I know that? Where are the stories about the homeless? Every holiday season I could count on dozens of stories about the homeless, but now, none. Not one this last holiday season, or the one before it. Because stories about overflowing homeless shelters would not go well with the propaganda that the economy is doing fine. I mean think for a minute. We have had years of record bankruptcy filings and foreclosures. But we don't have any homeless according to the news. BS.

Wall Street is doing fine, and why shouldn't they? They got bailed out and handed the golden credit card. But we have a political class, corporate class, and both are telling the news people, even Faux News, not to report on the poor. We get statistics every now and then when they can't figure out how to cover it all up, like more people in poverty now than in the 1960's, but that is all we've heard.

Even our favorites at MSNBC have been silent on this story. Nobody and I mean nobody is reporting on the poor, and how they have to struggle to survive. Nobody and I mean nobody is reporting on the homeless and what they're doing to survive. I've seen one story from a British Press, and it was picked up by Huffington Post, but that's all. One lousy story, about how bad things are out there. The rest of the stories are how awesome the economy is and how great things are going for us Americans.

So I know we're being fed a pile of manure under the principals of propaganda. The only thing I can't figure out is why. The only answers I've been able to come up with is that the entrenched powers that be are determined not to talk about it. Because our nation has gone from facing problems, to hoping if we ignore them long enough they'll go away.

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