Connecticut gun makers demand apology from governor

[ellisonz]

Gun makers in Connecticut accuse Gov. Dannel Malloy of insulting them and creating a hostile climate for their industry.
By Christopher Keating, Hartford Courant

April 21, 2013

HARTFORD, Conn. — Connecticut's gun manufacturers are accusing Gov. Dannel P. Malloy of creating a hostile work environment and essentially driving them out of the state with comments they view as offensive.

The clash reached a flash point in early April when Malloy, a Democrat, gave an interview to CNN's Candy Crowley. "What this is about is the ability of the gun industry to sell as many guns to as many people as possible, even if they're deranged, even if they're mentally ill, even if they have a criminal record," he said. "They don't care."

Those comments prompted outrage in the gun industry.

The National Shooting Sports Foundation, a Newtown-based trade association, wants an apology. And O.F. Mossberg & Sons, a North Haven gun maker with 270 employees, said the comments were "slanderous" to its employees.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-conn-gunmakers-20130421,0,4138105.story

[hlthe2b]

1. I'd love to show them my idea of any "owed" apology.

[billh58]

2. Aw, poor

little mistreated, misunderstood, merchants of death. Here's your apology: suck on it.

[alcibiades_mystery]

3. I'd go further: gun dealers and makers know damn well that they derive considerable income

from the illicit market.

It's not that they don't care. They actively promote murder for their own profit. And not just a few of them: all of them, as an industry. Gun dealers are no better than the gang bangers and mass shooters they supply, knowingly and willingly, and through the licit to illicit pipeline. They're murderers, just as surely as if they were pulling the trigger.

Scumbags.

[CBGLuthier]

4. I guess calling them douchebag merchants of death would be a bit much too

How about profiteering soul-less assholes?

[Politicalboi]

5. Let's see

Who lobbied and threatened for the Senate to kill gun reform? Fuck these assholes. They can dish it out, but they can't take it. May your product be a thing of the past soon. Take your machines of death and shove them up your asses.

[Buzz Clik]

6. Wow, that would really piss me off, too.

Basically because it's true.

[The Wielding Truth]

11. Yea. How dare he utter the truth!

[jehop61]

7. My reply

[dsc]

8. This is the apology I would give them

I am quite sorry that my stating that the gun industry doesn't care if they sell guns to the mentally ill and those with criminal records upset people, but I am even more sorry that the gun industry doesn't care if they sell guns to the mentally ill and those with criminal records.

[Hoyt]

9. Screw gun profiteers.

[louis-t]

10. My response to the gun industry would be...

"Prove that you care if the mentally ill and criminally insane get weapons. Prove it." Assholes.

[truebluegreen]

12. Call the Waaaaahmbulance!

Seriously, fuck the gun manufacturers.

If they find something useful to manufacture I'll happily contribute tax dollars to help them change over, but for now, fuck the gun manufacturers. And fuck the NRA.

[Initech]

30. +1 fuck the NRA!

[annabanana]

13. "A HOSTILE CLIMATE FOR THEIR INDUSTRY"!?!?!?!

It seems more than just in return for the HOSTILE CLIMATE they've created for human beings all across this Country!

[smirkymonkey]

21. Yeah, that's rich, isn't it?

What a bunch of little crybabies! They can go suck it!

[krispos42]

14. Gun makers don't need to sell to "everybody"

The record of the Democrats on the issue is all the advertising and promotion they need. Ammunition has been scarce for five years now, and anything that Democrats would define as "assault weapon" and promptly ban has been flying off the shelves for the same time period.

Of course, all companies that make things have a goal of selling their products to as many people as possible and they don't care if the person is sane, or unable to afford it, or will mis-use it or whatever.

However, gun makers only sell to federally licensed gun dealers, who are required by law to run background checks on all purchasers of new guns. So, the gun industry has NO ability to sell to the mentally ill or criminals.

They are relieved by law from having to worry about that.

[billh58]

17. And yet another

right-wing NRA apologist steps up with a half-truth parading as "fact." When a "federally licensed dealer" sells to a legitimate buyer after the required background check, the process (and the gun) then goes into a black hole.

This is when the straw purchaser hands over the "legal" weapon to a criminal, or their crazy Uncle Billy Bob. In turn the criminal or Uncle BB uses it for whatever purpose, and then re-sells it to another criminal or mentally deranged person. This does not even take into consideration all of the "legal" firearms which are irresponsibly left unsecured to be stolen, allowed to accidentally kill children, or used for suicide by a family member.

Because there is no national database or gun registry in the USA, guns move around freely on the black market every day of the year. At some point in the chain, ALL guns are legal (manufacturer to dealer, dealer to customer) and then the oversight vanishes. Various sources estimate that there are around 300 million guns in the USA, but no one has a clue where most of them are.

The old bullshit line that "criminals will always find a way to get guns" is ironically true because of lax oversight and regulation of guns. But that state of affairs is both promoted and encouraged by the NRA and its supporters, because it sells multitudes of more guns under the marketing ploy of "only a good guy with a gun can stop a bad guy with a gun." See, when you ensure a steady supply of bad guys through a lack of oversight and regulation, you have a built-in market for selling guns to so-called "good guys" like George Zimmerman.

The promotion of what amounts to a domestic arms race between the bad guys and the good guys is a highly profitable enterprise. Just like the Bush family during WWII, the NRA and its right-wing supporters count on selling arms to both sides (indirectly to criminals through the black market) of the conflict. The Americans killed in the crossfire, according to the NRA and DU Gungeoneers, are "statistically insignificant" because the Second Amendment gives them the right to the unchecked proliferation of deadly weapons in this country for their fun and pleasure.

[krispos42]

22. Yeah, thanks for calling me names.

I appreciate it.


I mean, if you knew me, you would know that I actually proposed a comprehensive nationwide background check program that I finalized in the wake of Newtown... which incidentally is about 20 miles from me. And my son is in second grade.

But doubtless you want to hear what my plan is so you can call me an NRA shill some more.

My plan goes like this:

The ATF creates a federal firearm transfer agent license for people that want to have a side business transferring firearms from a private seller to a private buyer.

The transfer agent would not be a stocking gun dealer and would not be able to purchase new-manufacture guns, but they would have all the appropriate forms as well as access to the federal background check system (NICS).

For, say $20, the buyer and the seller would meet with the transfer agent. The transfer agent instructs them to fill out the paperwork, checks and copies identification, then runs the background check on the buyer. If he or she passes the check, the gun is transferred.

To protect privacy, the gun's make, model, and serial number would be recorded with the ATF, as well as the seller and the transfer agent... but not the buyer. That would be held by the transfer agent. If the gun turns up in a police investigation, it would be a relatively simple and quick matter for the police to contact the transfer agent or the seller and find out who it was sold to, but it would keep the government from trolling through a digitized database of gun owners.

This system could and should be used to limit firearm purchases or sales to 12 (or some other number) per year. If a person is selling more than 12 (or whatever) guns per year, then they really need to get a regular federal license and pay taxes on their income. And if they're buying more than 12 (or whatever) guns a year, they should get either a regular federal license or a collector's license.

[billh58]

23. Did an NRA attorney

give you this really weak idea? Where are the teeth in this apparently voluntary process? What prevents straw buyers from continuing business as usual? How does this make even a slight dent in the proliferation of deadly weapons on the open market? What is your objection to a national database of registered guns? Your "plan" is not very much different from the watered-down version that the corrupt US Senate voted down and refused to discuss.

Nope, you're still a "dead cold hands" Gungeoneer and an NRA apologist, but thanks for playing. The common sense answer to combating the out-of-control proliferation of guns -- both legal and illegal -- is universal registration. This will serve not as a "confiscation list" as the fucking NRA and the Gungeoneers would have us believe, but as an "accountability list" to ensure that we know where ALL guns are, who owns them, if they are stolen, and if fines or other penalties for gross negligence are in order.

We register and track many other types of real property (autos, boats, airplanes, land, etc.) and guns should be no different. Registration would not violate the Second Amendment, or any other personal enumerated right. I know that you and your NRA buddies don't agree, but even Heller left regulation of firearms wide open.

Like your Gungeoneer buddy and co-apologist, Spin, I will now let you have the last word and tell me how sadly uninformed I am, and that your superior knowledge and intellect can enlighten me if only I will listen to your well thought out reasoning and statistical analysis of all things guns.

Fuck the NRA and its supporters. Fuck them all.

[krispos42]

24. If they did...

...I wouldn't have been working on my car the last several weeks to avoid paying a thousand dollars in labor charges.

I though it was obvious that I was specifying the framework for universal background checks, because that was the topic of discussion.

My goal was to make the transfer process, with background check, easier by having more agents available than are currently in existence with regular FFL permits.

But you go on thinking that registration is the answer. I don't know if you've noticed, but cars, boats, planes, and land is not something that can generally be stolen without being noticed within a few hours. Guns, packed away in a closed or a safe, can be stolen and not noticed missing for a long period of time.

And of course, guns don't have license plates dangling from them that you can see whenever you take them from the house. And having cars registered doesn't stop them from being used in crimes, now does it?

Oh, and yes, the gun registry you so desperately want WILL be used to confiscate firearms. Of course it will! What will happen when an assault-weapon ban is passed? Or the definition of "assault weapon" is expanded? Do you really think the attorneys general will NOT use the list to make sure the guns are removed from circulation?

I'm sure no "legal" guns will be confiscated. And I'm sure that, under the efforts of people like you, the definition of "legal" will tighten on a regular basis.

[billh58]

25. The mean old government

is coming to take away my precious gun, but I need my gun to fight the mean old government. Uncle Wayne is very proud of you and your Gungeon buddies. Buh bye Bubba...

[Sekhmets Daughter]

27. A jury voted 6-0 to Leave it Alone

At Mon Apr 22, 2013, 10:47 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

And yet another
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2731659

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

Personal attack.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Apr 22, 2013, 11:00 AM, and the Jury voted 0-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: This is a tough one. Technically, "right wing NRA apologist" is rude. But it's the only rude phrase in a long and important post. Ask the OP to edit out the insult.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Hey it's a great debate. There are always at least 2 sides to an issue or discussion. DU would be as boring as watching paint dry if there was no 'heat'
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[billh58]

28. Thanks for the update.

I no longer go to the Gungeon to debate them, but when they come to GD I feel like they are fair game -- especially when they openly support the right-wing NRA, and refer to "Democrats" as if WE are the problem.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

29. You're most welcome....

I have taken to posting jury results as instruction...mainly for those who alert.

Keep up the good fight...

[Ikonoklast]

18. Ammuntion has been scarce because of fear-mongering of a Black guy in the White House.

It started the day after Mr. Obama won the first time.

That scarcity was engineered by the Right just as quickly as they could get the word out through their paid mouthpieces.

[ellisonz]

32. +1000

[derby378]

15. The NSSF has a history of distributing gun locks free of charge to anyone who needs one

Some of our local police stations even had boxes of NSSF "Project Childsafe" gun locks just sitting on the counter. Nobody ever asked for any moey in order to grab a lock.

Don't know if the program is still active, but I respected them for trying to do the right thing.

[TheCowsCameHome]

16. Oh, dear. They're offended.

Wah,Wah,Wah.

[littlewolf]

19. well they can leave go somewhere else. TX for example.

I am certain the jobs lost will not be missed
nor will the taxes paid be missed.
oh and the associated businesses that
service those jobs, gone too. but we will
feel so much better.
/s

[billh58]

33. Thanks for a great idea!

If we could somehow convince ALL of the gun manufacturers to relocate to Texas it would be a win-win when Texas secedes. Then they would need import licenses to sell guns in the USA, and we could tax the shit out of them. What a great way to reduce the number of guns, AND earn income for education and health care.

Thanks again...

[baldguy]

20. "You want an apology? FUCK YOU! How's that for an apology?"

[Iggo]

26. I love The Onion.

[neverforget]

31. The governor is correct. It's about the bottom line for corporations.

Fuck the gun manufacturers.