Mass. police: Bomb suspects didn't have gun permit / and hijacked person 'escaped' not released

[Tx4obama]

Mass. police: Bomb suspects didn't have gun permit

CAMBRIDGE, Mass. (AP) — A Massachusetts police official say the brothers suspected of bombing the Boston Marathon before having shootouts with authorities didn’t have gun permits.

Cambridge Police Commissioner Robert Haas tells The Associated Press in an interview Sunday that neither Tamerlan Tsarnaev (tsahr-NEYE'-ehv) nor his brother Dzhokhar had permission to carry firearms.

-snip-

-snip-

The suspects were also accused of hijacking a Mercedes on Thursday night.

Haas says the pair didn’t release the driver, but he escaped when he was left alone while the two men entered a convenience store.

Full post here: http://www.boston.com/2013/04/21/mass-police-bomb-suspects-didn-have-gun-permit/p7PKp9xmXPd7jWv9hcNlTJ/story.html

[MADem]

1. I heard a report that the hijackee was a woman, and they took eight hundred bucks from her

after demanding her ATM card. They went to two ATMs and the card finally pooped out so they couldn't get any more.

I don't have any "backup" for what I heard, though--so I may have heard wrong!!

[Tx4obama]

4. Thanks I changed 'man' to 'person' in subject line. I heard about the $800 too.

I heard (probably on the TV) they went to three ATMs.

Something like: one ATM wouldn't take the pin number, at the second they got the $800, and at the third the machine said that the person had reached their daily withdrawal limit.

[freshwest]

5. That's what the live television coverage that went overnight said. Lucky the person escaped.

The person was quoted, but not on the air, as saying the two brothers claimed they were the marathon bombers and also that they had killed the MIT officer.

It was good that the BPD set the goal to take the second brother alive, to go to trial and let all of this testimony come out. It will be a rough day for the bombing victims who saw up close what happened, like Jeff Bauman.

[Frustratedlady]

2. That was one lucky guy.

[alsame]

3. As I said the other day, these guys

were not very smart..."he escaped when he was left alone while the two men entered a convenience store".

[freshwest]

6. And that they were there was caught on the store camera.

Another lucky thing was the cell phone of the driver was left in the vehicle and they located it that way. The owner must have been terrified and is probably thanking lucky stars for the escape as it's unlikely that he or she would have survived what happened later.

[jakeXT]

7. But who robbed the store and when ? At same time they were there ?

Why do you leave a hostage alone in the car ?

[gateley]

9. At first they were saying that they robbed it, then saying they didn't. I don't know what they're

saying now.

What I'm interested to find out is what the "disturbance" was the MIT officer was responding to.

[freshwest]

10. It seemed the robbery was coincidence, they didn't do it. And they may have lost the driver by

being distracted by the robbery themselves?

I listened to live television from Boston almost all night and into the morning and things really went bad after that. The PD was coming to check that out the robbery and it could be the driver ran into the store and told the police about his vehicle, and that's what started the chase, as no one would knew what they were driving in.

They said on the air that there was a call to shut down cell towers to prevent any more explosives going off. I heard that on the air, the explosives, and the neighbors in the houses were freaking out. Then the gun fire happened and the police were retreating.

The SUV went fast, tossing out explosives and running through the police literally, stopping only get out to toss another pressure cooker bomb that didn't go over 20 feet it was so heavy. It went off and hurt the police officers. Then they were shooting and tried to make their getaway.

It wasn't until later that the police chief said that in the chaos, the younger brother drove the SUV over his older brother trying to drive off, one report said he was drug for over 30 feet by the SUV. I had a friend who died when a car thief backed over him and drug him down the road tearing him all up. That would explain what some have said the condition of Tamerlan's body was in.

[jakeXT]

11. Why do you need 2 cars, and why do you need to tell that you are the bombers?

On Thursday night, one officer encountered the two cars being driven by Tamerlan and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev. The officer was instructed to wait for backup but before it arrived, the brothers jumped out of the cars and started shooting at his car. The five other officers arrived and an intense firefight ensued. “We estimate there was over 200 shots fired in a five- to 10-minute period," Deveau said. And it wasn’t just bullets. The brothers also threw explosives at the officers, including a pressure cooker bomb.

At one point Tamerlan started walking directly toward the police while shooting, and when he ran out of ammunition an officer used the opportunity to tackle him. But when officers were handcuffing him in the middle of the street they suddenly realized a black SUV driven by Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was coming right for them. The officers “dive out of the way, and he drives over his brother and drags him a short distance down the street.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/04/20/boston_bombing_suspect_dzhokar_tsarnaev_may_have_killed_his_brother.html


edit: It sounds like the SUV driver killed the older brother, because I don't see the need to handcuff a dead person.

[FarCenter]

13. If the older brother was the leader of the cell and the link to others and superiors, he had to die

If he had lived he might have been a lead to the organization.

[former9thward]

17. It is standard police procedure to handcuff dead suspects.

A police officer is not qualified to pronounce a person 'dead'. Someone who appears to be dead may come to.

[freshwest]

18. Until you related this, I hadn't heard they were driving two vehicles. It seemed they took the SUV

in order to replace the Honda, but then, I had trouble getting the right link and then stayed with it until they quit the special report on Saturday morning, so may have missed that part of the coverage.

As to why they'd tell the driver they were the bombers, it could have been to get compliance. The driver allowed them to take him (or her, we don't know yet) to three places. As far as getting away, it's likely that when the driver tried to get the third cash withdrawal, they were at the convenience store or an outside ATM machine where he (she) made their escape. I suspect that is how that happened.

We're just speculating until the trial is held and people testify under oath to what the events were. The media is going to give conflicting reports because nothing matters until the trial. At that point the rules of evidence, laws against perjury and the expert grilling of everyone will occur.

And then this story will be history for most of us, but continue to be a nightmare for the wounded and the families of the dead and wounded. Our best wishes to all of them, as well as the family members of the bombers, as this will be a heavy burden for them to bear. Ruslan appears to be the spokesman for now although he had nothing to do with this event.

[jakeXT]

20. An eyewitness says he was run over by Police, but we'll probably never know.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017113840

[LisaL]

21. His younger brother was in an SUV.

Each of them had a car.
The older one got out of his car.
The brother stayed in an SUV.

[freshwest]

25. Your own post in the thread says otherwise:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017113840#post3

What I saw on the live coverage that night as it was happening with the news crews and the sounds and lights from the explosions going off, it was dark as could be.

As far as it never being known and left to generate more CT, not true. Jesus, that video is from a channel promoting 911 truth, Ron Paul and breitbart. The comments all blame the government. It belongs in CS.

Whatever we need to know will come out at trial when the younger brother testifies. EOM.

[MADem]

19. They had a car full of explosive devices--they were looking for another target.

They knew they'd have to make a run for it, because their pictures were on the television, and they probably wanted a spare escape vehicle.

I hope they make it a point to charge the younger brother with the manslaughter of his older brother.

[jakeXT]

12. New details on wild shootout with bomb suspects in Watertown; chief believes older brother was kille

A local officer spotted the brothers driving in two cars, a Honda sedan and the stolen Mercedes SUV, said Deveau. The brothers stopped, jumped out and started firing on the officer, while more police rushed to the scene, he said.

“Quickly we had six Watertown police officers and two bad guys in a gunfight,” said Deveau. At least 200 shots were fired; maybe as many as 300, he said.

The shots, around 12:50 a.m., woke resident Jennings Aske, at 66 Laurel Ave. When he looked out his window he saw a green Honda Civic sedan stopped in the street, with its lights on and the driver’s side windows blown out. A husky man – apparently Tamerlan Tsarnaev -- stood nearby firing a gun.

“I saw him standing there shooting at police,” Aske said. “When he fired, there was a little flash of light. I could hear the gun firing. It was terrifying.”


http://www.boston.com/metrodesk/2013/04/21/new-details-wild-shootout-with-bomb-suspects-watertown-chief-believes-older-brother-was-killed-younger-brother-desperate-getaway/jaIyrXr8fSnf5Pu4xnRbvM/story.html

[malaise]

14. Because money was the priority - money and escaping

Glad she escaped

[jakeXT]

15. Why go to school till Thursday, he had 3 days to get a car and money

His mechanic said he wanted to repair the Mercedes on Wednesday. I don't know to which girlfriend it belonged.

Dzhokar Tsarnaev, 19, was on the campus of University of Massachusetts-Dartmouth every day after the attack until late Thursday, a university official told CNN. Tsarnaev attended classes and dorm parties and went to the gym while the rest of Boston came to a tense standstill.

A student at the school told The Boston Globe that she saw Tsarnaev at a party Wednesday night that was attended by some of his friends from intramural soccer.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/04/20/us/boston-younger-brother/index.html

[freshwest]

16. Days later photos made the news, if their plan was hiding in plain sight, it would fail then.

Thus explaining their rush to flee.

[HiPointDem]

23. that doesn't make sense. the classes & parties were before the bombing and if he went to the gym

after the bombing that means it was open, not at a 'standstill'.

[gateley]

8. They'd been saying that the brothers "let him go" -- this is interesting. Thanks for the update!

[HiPointDem]

22. if he was left alone in the car, then they let him 'escape'.

[moondust]

24. Did they buy the guns on the Internet?

Without a background check?

Hmmmm.......

We clearly can't do anything to prevent that from happening because Vampires Congress.

[Recursion]

26. They bought them illegally one way or another

Not sure how it being on the Internet makes that better or worse?

[moondust]

27. Universal background checks

would have theoretically prevented them from buying their guns on the Internet if I'm not mistaken. They might have gone underground to get them if for some reason they knew an underground seller.

[Recursion]

28. They were currently theoretically prevented from buying them on the Internet

Actual gun stores and gun dealers have to do background checks online just like in person

People who put up an ad on God knows what community web board saying "I have a gun to sell" are already, in MA, legally required to run a background check, which they clearly didn't do.

I'm just saying the law you seem to want is already in force in MA.

[moondust]

29. What if the Internet seller is in some other state?

Why would that seller pay any attention to MA law?

[Recursion]

30. Because Federal law already says sales from one state to another require a background check

Whether it's on the Internet or not, a firearm sale between two states has to go through a Federally licensed dealer who must perform a background check. If the dealer uses the Internet to expedite this transfer doesn't matter; the buyer still has to come to the dealer's store and physically show an ID so he can run a background check.

(Looking at that I'm not sure I'm being clear: if you live in CT and want to sell your gun to someone in MA, the law requires that you complete the sale through a licensed dealer in MA, who receives the gun from you, runs the background check, takes the buyer's money if he passes it, pockets a fee, and gives the rest of the money to you.)

[moondust]

31. And that's for all (legal) sales across state lines?

So all the gun sales on eBay and Craigslist go through this if they cross state lines?

[Recursion]

32. That is correct, any interstate gun sale

The Internet doesn't have any specific loophole, it's just that it makes it easier for two private individuals in the same state to find each other in the first place.

(Both eBay and Craigslist have terms of use that forbid gun sales, incidentally, and they aren't known as good places to sell guns because the ads can be taken down without notice. It's more often community web bulletin boards.)

[moondust]

33. I wonder about enforcement.

Who would ever check Internet sales to see if buyer and seller complied? I could easily imagine a scenario similar to a gun show where the seller is "supposed" to check the buyer's driver's license but instead they simply go out to the car and do the deal with no questions asked, in this case dropping the package in a Fedex box and driving away.

[Recursion]

34. Well, that's the main anti-gun-control argument to begin with

It's one thing to have all these laws, but if they aren't realistically enforceable doesn't this just become The War on Drugs 2?

[moondust]

35. A universal background check law covering Internet sales

could probably beef up penalties as a deterrent as well as add additional screening responsibilities for shippers, perhaps package scanning or something. And maybe add some manpower to enforcement. Stuff like that.

It will be interesting to find out where they got the guns.

Good night.

[Recursion]

36. I guess. People buy pot on Craigslist. I've done it.

But, yes, I'm very much for beefing up ATF funding and getting them a director. A few well-placed stings could probably deter a lot of illegal trafficking.

[Abq_Sarah]

38. If it's through a licensed gun dealer

They're required to keep records of every firearm that passes through their hands, including transfers for 20 years. No FFL wants to get on the wrong side of the ATF since the penalties are very high. If someone sold a firearm, particularly a handgun across state lines by dropping it in a FedEx, UPS or USPS box without declaring the contents, they've already violated federal law. All common carriers have strict rules for firearms shipping. Internet sales aren't the problem, it's face to face sales, absent a licensed dealer and no amount of new laws are going to stop someone who is intent on violating the law.

[madville]

37. eBay and Craigslist prohibit gun related postings

And such sales are already illegal under federal and most state laws. They already broke a thousand laws, a couple if more wouldn't have slowed them down much.