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avebury

(10,946 posts)
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 03:16 PM Apr 2013

Does this give you warm and fuzzy feelings on

Friday's house-to-house searches?

Posted as separate thread to get wider visibility.

It makes me very uncomfortable. I would have been worried that they might have shot my dogs as one of my babies does not take kindly to strangers in her home.

42 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Does this give you warm and fuzzy feelings on (Original Post) avebury Apr 2013 OP
The milk was starting to go bad. rug Apr 2013 #1
I think I would have welcomed their presence -- better they find someone gateley Apr 2013 #2
It sure doesn't look like they were all that understanding with those people Fumesucker Apr 2013 #4
Yes I watched it. They were looking for a person who had gateley Apr 2013 #15
If they seriously thought those people were the terrorists they would have been on the ground Fumesucker Apr 2013 #17
But they had to determine that they weren't armed. This is America, remember -- we love our guns! gateley Apr 2013 #20
I was waiting for this, thucythucy Apr 2013 #27
Trust me, with my little dog I don't think avebury Apr 2013 #5
"Raids"? How about searches? Sheesh. gateley Apr 2013 #3
I would have been worried... hlthe2b Apr 2013 #6
There is a difference between letting them check your avebury Apr 2013 #8
Can you really be so obtuse to not recognize they were sent from property to avoid being casualty?! hlthe2b Apr 2013 #10
Making people walk out of their home, hands behind their avebury Apr 2013 #11
Honestly, if you don't get that they had to conside the possibility that the suspect was being aided hlthe2b Apr 2013 #14
There were so many people there, they may have felt they needed to organize them. gateley Apr 2013 #16
House-to-house "raids"?? Seriously?? kestrel91316 Apr 2013 #7
That's not what I saw on the video rocktivity Apr 2013 #12
They didn't seem in any hurry to answer the door - better they bang for a moment gateley Apr 2013 #18
I'd be hesitant to answer a door that someone was banging on rocktivity Apr 2013 #21
What -- did they hurt their feelings by not being polite? gateley Apr 2013 #22
Do you have any idea WHY LEOs use a loud voice? IT'S SO THAT THEY ARE HEARD! randome Apr 2013 #25
"someone" wasn't banging on the door, they were uniformed gateley Apr 2013 #28
The argument that they took too long to answer the door is specious. In my 1monster Apr 2013 #24
You probably would have hollered "coming!" gateley Apr 2013 #29
Perhaps, but my house is pretty sound proof, especially with the second door... I've 1monster Apr 2013 #34
Well, it's a good thing these guys weren't at YOUR door, then! gateley Apr 2013 #36
I don't answer my door that fast because I avebury Apr 2013 #39
Did you watch the video? Mojorabbit Apr 2013 #13
When there was a bomber and cop killer on the loose in your neighborhood? gateley Apr 2013 #19
It was the same situation of having them come and look around Mojorabbit Apr 2013 #32
Okay. Fine. You're not going to convince me, I'm not going to convince you. gateley Apr 2013 #33
Looks that way Mojorabbit Apr 2013 #41
... gateley Apr 2013 #42
I would have a question about the film. Did the person see this for all the houses chelsea0011 Apr 2013 #9
I asked the same question on another OP with the same video, thucythucy Apr 2013 #30
The thing is... liberalmuse Apr 2013 #23
I've seen this SPECIFIC video posted about 20 times on DU. JoePhilly Apr 2013 #26
All those people cheering in Watertown thucythucy Apr 2013 #31
Yeah and that the police state would have taken it off the internet by now treestar Apr 2013 #35
Disturbing, but even more disturbing is that the people of Boston welcome this. egduj Apr 2013 #37
The way they treated those people made me very uncomfortable too. forestpath Apr 2013 #38
Under the circumstances, I think they did a professional job. Boston should be proud of them. AAO Apr 2013 #40

gateley

(62,683 posts)
2. I think I would have welcomed their presence -- better they find someone
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 03:17 PM
Apr 2013

hiding in my house than me discovering him!

I'd have just warned the officers about the dog -- maybe leashed him/her up while they searched. I'm sure they would have worked with you on it.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
4. It sure doesn't look like they were all that understanding with those people
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 03:21 PM
Apr 2013

Did you actually watch the video?

gateley

(62,683 posts)
15. Yes I watched it. They were looking for a person who had
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 03:56 PM
Apr 2013

set off a bomb at the Boston Marathon, had killed an MIT cop, had opened fire and lobbed explosives at the police in Watertown -- how SHOULD they have comported themselves?

Nobody was thrown on the ground, shoved, pushed, handcuffed.

I think they behaved as should be expected in a situation like this.

There were so MANY people in the house, that might have raised alarms, too. Even so, they handled it professionally if you ask me.



Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
17. If they seriously thought those people were the terrorists they would have been on the ground
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 04:01 PM
Apr 2013

I've hosted parties and other gatherings in my home with a considerable number of people when I had a home big enough to do such a thing.

And it turned out the shelter in place actually stopped them from finding the terrorist because the man who spotted him wouldn't go outside until after it was lifted, whereupon he noticed the blood and torn tarp on his boat and subsequently the terrorist.

gateley

(62,683 posts)
20. But they had to determine that they weren't armed. This is America, remember -- we love our guns!
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 04:08 PM
Apr 2013

It was a dangerous situation, and again, I think they did what they needed to do without going over the top.

thucythucy

(7,986 posts)
27. I was waiting for this,
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 06:43 PM
Apr 2013

the "if only they hadn't asked for people to shelter in place the suspect would have been found earlier."

Maybe so.

Then too, maybe, earlier in the day, before he bled out, he would have still had the strength to shoot and kill the guy when he lifted the tarp.

Maybe he would have had a prolonged shootout with the police, and killed and wounded another cop.

Maybe he would have been killed himself, thus ending any possibility of getting any answers out of him.

In which case people would be complaining about that.

Then too, if "shelter in place" hadn't been requested, and a bomb had gone off, say, at Park Street Station during morning rush hour, some people no doubt would have been outraged that the city wasn't shut down as it should have been. Probably many of the same people now second guessing "shelter in place" would have been expressing outrage at city officials "not taking the proper precautions."

It's real easy to complain and second guess when you aren't the one making the life and death decisions.

avebury

(10,946 posts)
5. Trust me, with my little dog I don't think
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 03:22 PM
Apr 2013

there is anybody on this planet that could get in my house or on my property without her alerting. She may be only 9 pounds but she can be pretty vicious.

hlthe2b

(101,730 posts)
6. I would have been worried...
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 03:23 PM
Apr 2013

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

that they would not be able to stop on the way out to pat my precious furry girl, leaving her forlorn and confused, since, in her mind, all people belong to "her" and all should be at her beck and call.


Ok, this is a bit of sarcasm, but really. Can we be realistic about this? There are no reports that any pets were hurt and they assuredly encountered some. While I decry these incidents of pet injury--when they have occurred in other jurisdictions, the scenarios were very very different. These Boston neighborhood searches were meant to PROTECT the residents of these neighborhoods by apprehending a very dangerous individual known to be in the area, not to somehow spy on them or try to find illicit drugs or any other unrelated issue.

avebury

(10,946 posts)
8. There is a difference between letting them check your
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 03:27 PM
Apr 2013

property and making you leave you property like you are under suspicion and getting a pat down. None of the people who were made to leave this house even got to take something with them. If I am going to be made to leave my property I am going to want my wallet, checkbook, credit cards, car keys and so on. If they let the people stay outside the house it would not have been so bad but to make them walk up the street?

I would expect to let them come in, walk through to see no bad guy and then leave.

hlthe2b

(101,730 posts)
10. Can you really be so obtuse to not recognize they were sent from property to avoid being casualty?!
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 03:31 PM
Apr 2013

really? They were supposed to leave them there with an heavily armed bomber suspect--who might well have been carrying other bombs or a suicide explosive device in the backyard yards away




REALLY?!


As for the other searches, they were allowed back in immediately after the search. Removing them while doing the search allowed the offices to ensure they were not being held hostage.

Honestly.... I do not understand how a handful here can not GET IT.

avebury

(10,946 posts)
11. Making people walk out of their home, hands behind their
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 03:42 PM
Apr 2013

necks and then patting them down DOES NOT treat them like potential victims but potential targets. If I was told, grab your dogs, your purse walk up the street until we clear your house - no problem. Being treated like a criminal - problem.

The bigger problem I have with the whole thing was where were the trained dogs? They knew the guy was shot by the blood evidence in the abandoned vehicle and at another house. There was no evidence that he got access to another vehicle. I would hope that decent tracking dogs could have located him. He wasn't even within the perimeter under house-to-house searches. It was pure dumb luck that a civilian noticed that things were out of whack in his backyard and called the authorities. Had they not found him Friday night there is probably a good likelihood that they guy would have bled out and died in the boat.

hlthe2b

(101,730 posts)
14. Honestly, if you don't get that they had to conside the possibility that the suspect was being aided
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 03:53 PM
Apr 2013

by the resident, that they could not assume that everyone they encountered was an innocent bystander-- or by contrast under duress (but still posing a threat) should the suspect have been holding them in the house. Your imagination in terms of backseat driving the actions of these trained professionals does not seem to include the possibility that had the suspect been holding them in the house, he could very well have strapped a bomb on a homeowner and sent them out to meet the police.

I don't question the need for these precautions. Though I would be the first to band together if there was evidence that the pet of an innocent homeowner had been hurt (as was your original concern). There is no report that this occurred and that any of the measures, no matter how harsh they may appear, were not justified by the circumstances.

gateley

(62,683 posts)
16. There were so many people there, they may have felt they needed to organize them.
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 03:59 PM
Apr 2013

And they didn't have to leave for any long period of time, just until everybody was checked, it appears.

If they're not sure who you are and if you're affiliated with the suspect, they're not going to let you grab your "to go" kit. They want to make sure you're unarmed and in the clear.

I think they did their job.

 

kestrel91316

(51,666 posts)
7. House-to-house "raids"?? Seriously??
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 03:24 PM
Apr 2013

They knocked on doors and went through homes with the permission of residents, making sure everybody was ok and nobody was being held hostage by or harboring him.

Would you prefer that the police would not be allowed to do that???

rocktivity

(44,555 posts)
12. That's not what I saw on the video
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 03:47 PM
Apr 2013

I saw banging on a door, and people being shouted at and being abruptly removed from their homes with their hands up -- why do that if they had "permission?" If someone had been hiding in house, he would have had plenty of time to get "ready" to fight back. Unless they had a particular reason to approach that particular house in that manner, it's hardly the stuff of cooperative "warm fuzziness."


rocktivity

gateley

(62,683 posts)
18. They didn't seem in any hurry to answer the door - better they bang for a moment
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 04:05 PM
Apr 2013

than kick the door in.

This was a serious situation. They didn't shove anybody (that we saw), throw anybody on the ground, or abuse them in any way. They just organized them to come out one at a time to be frisked.

Considering the circumstance (and how many fucking people were IN that house??) I think they did what they needed to to clear these people so they could move on.

I really don't understand the criticism.

Seriously and sincerely -- how would you have handled it?

If I was under that much pressure and knowing there was a possibility a killer was holed up inside, I'm not sure I could have been as professional. And I'm the sweetest person I know (except for California Peggy

rocktivity

(44,555 posts)
21. I'd be hesitant to answer a door that someone was banging on
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 04:09 PM
Apr 2013

Especially if I had a doorbell.

Maybe they weren't dressed, weren't near the front door, or both. That's no reason to yell and scream at them.


rocktivity

gateley

(62,683 posts)
22. What -- did they hurt their feelings by not being polite?
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 04:12 PM
Apr 2013

A fucking bomber/cop killer was on the loose! This was an EXCEPTIONAL circumstance!

And as somebody else noted, how did they know it wasn't a hostage situation?

NONE of those people were dressed or near the front door?

gateley

(62,683 posts)
28. "someone" wasn't banging on the door, they were uniformed
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 06:46 PM
Apr 2013

cops and guys in swat gear. They had to know what was happening in the neighborhood.

And again, EVERY one of those people wasn't dressed? NOT ONE person was near the door?

There were SO MANY people inside, NOT ONE could peek out the window?

This was an EMERGENCY. They did not drop by to chat, and if they were giving the cops grief, or took their time answering, they had every reason to yell at them.

1monster

(11,012 posts)
24. The argument that they took too long to answer the door is specious. In my
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 06:24 PM
Apr 2013

home, it can take 45 seconds to a minute to answer the door. Due to aging of the occupants and the design of the chairs, it is not always easy or fast to get up. Then there is the fact that the inside of the house is U-shaped with the entrance at one end of the U and the living room at the bottom of the U away from the front door, and a another door between the entrance and the living room.

Could be these people occupied at the back of the house when the police knocked.

Whatever the reason, they were treated like criminals, not like residents who might be in danger.

gateley

(62,683 posts)
29. You probably would have hollered "coming!"
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 06:51 PM
Apr 2013

And they probably wouldn't have found what, about 10 people inside?

The were NOT treated like criminals. Criminals would have been made to lie on the ground and would have been handcuffed. They had to be sure there were not weapons, there was no hostage situation -- they were looking for an armed suspect, not just dropping by. I don't know why people don't seem to understand this was an EXTRAORDINARY circumstance.

I can't believe all the whining.

1monster

(11,012 posts)
34. Perhaps, but my house is pretty sound proof, especially with the second door... I've
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 08:13 PM
Apr 2013

had to go to the door and call people back who had started to leave and were already in their cars.

gateley

(62,683 posts)
36. Well, it's a good thing these guys weren't at YOUR door, then!
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 08:17 PM
Apr 2013
I don't think they would have been going anywhere.

It does make me wonder -- what if someone WASN'T at home? How would they know the suspect wasn't in there and holding the house owner hostage? Or, if the owners WERE away, how would they know that the suspect wasn't in there hiding out?



avebury

(10,946 posts)
39. I don't answer my door that fast because I
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 08:36 PM
Apr 2013

have to grab my dogs. It doesn't matter who is at the door, one of my dogs does not like strangers in her house. In this instance I would be yelling (because both dogs would be barking their fool heads off) I need to secure my dogs first, give me a minute.

My little monster bit a Cox Cable guy in the pant leg and he just dragged her along while he walked through my backyard. Didn't phase him at all. I would also want to secure my cat because she is elderly and an indoor cat only. I wouldn't want her sneaking outside (which she tries to do now that she knows that there are stray cats that come around for food).

Mojorabbit

(16,020 posts)
13. Did you watch the video?
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 03:50 PM
Apr 2013

I have had police come in my house and look around. It was nothing like this.

Mojorabbit

(16,020 posts)
32. It was the same situation of having them come and look around
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 07:06 PM
Apr 2013

inside without knowing what they might encounter and it was done with respect for me, the homeowner. Could have been done here without all the screaming too.JMO

chelsea0011

(10,115 posts)
9. I would have a question about the film. Did the person see this for all the houses
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 03:31 PM
Apr 2013

on the street or was this one of the houses that people were removed and police entered. I have seen some people interviewed from the neighborhood of Watertown and have said police just came to their doors and asked how they were and do they have anything they would like to report. Did the person film their own house when the police arrived? Oh. and this does not make me warm and fuzzy. It shouldn't.

thucythucy

(7,986 posts)
30. I asked the same question on another OP with the same video,
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 06:54 PM
Apr 2013

hours ago, and thus far no answer.

My guess, and it's only a guess, is that for some reason this particular house drew particular suspicion.

Much of the reaction here seems to be from folks who haven't had many dealings with the police. I've seen campus cops act more "authoritarian" responding to calls at a frat house party.

liberalmuse

(18,670 posts)
23. The thing is...
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 04:18 PM
Apr 2013

I'm not a huge fan of cops or authoritarian figures. Not in the least. BUT...we only seem to hear the stories about the cops who shoot the family dog while raiding the wrong house. We don't hear about the cops who try to bust a suspect who is found guilty of domestic violence, and as a result, end up being attacked and sustaining injuries by the family dog (I won't even say what the breed was - you already know. ). The officer refuses to shoot the dog because he loves dogs. He ends up with a helluva lot of medical bills to repair a torn apart leg, but he does not blame the dog - it's a part of the job. A vastly underpaid job if you are a mathematician with an expertise in loss to benefit ratios. That's just a personal story I felt a need to share. And no, I'm still not a fan of cops, but I'm a huge fan of this one, and his partner.

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
26. I've seen this SPECIFIC video posted about 20 times on DU.
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 06:33 PM
Apr 2013

You'd think there would be a couple more of these videos, given that we now live in a police state and all.

Or maybe many on DU can't work the Google and find all of the other instances of this type of raid.

thucythucy

(7,986 posts)
31. All those people cheering in Watertown
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 06:56 PM
Apr 2013

Friday night must not be aware of all the fascist brutality they suffered.

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