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"Why should the guilty be read their rights?" (Original Post) whatchamacallit Apr 2013 OP
Because that's the American way... asswipe! n/t nebenaube Apr 2013 #1
Did you notice the quotes? whatchamacallit Apr 2013 #3
Sorry... n/t nebenaube Apr 2013 #17
No prob whatchamacallit Apr 2013 #18
Without context, how is anybody here to know what your post is about? longship Apr 2013 #27
Because there is no "guilty" until after a conviction. morningfog Apr 2013 #2
Exactly! whatchamacallit Apr 2013 #4
They are the detained. Downwinder Apr 2013 #5
Right. For how long? whatchamacallit Apr 2013 #6
Not long, coming up on nursing home time. Downwinder Apr 2013 #12
Not to mention.... musical_soul Apr 2013 #28
That is the American way. In_The_Wind Apr 2013 #7
Yeah, I know whatchamacallit Apr 2013 #9
Not to me. I totally got it! In_The_Wind Apr 2013 #11
Whew! whatchamacallit Apr 2013 #13
Yep! In_The_Wind Apr 2013 #14
For anyone who needs to understand the justification for the Miranda rule, the best place to AnotherMcIntosh Apr 2013 #8
... undeterred Apr 2013 #10
Because they are not "Guilty" until due process through the court system truebluegreen Apr 2013 #15
Ah... whatchamacallit Apr 2013 #16
I just love the Socratic method nadinbrzezinski Apr 2013 #19
"Have you stopped beating your wife yet?" nt bemildred Apr 2013 #20
You DO realize what you just said, right? MrMickeysMom Apr 2013 #21
Please read more of the thread. whatchamacallit Apr 2013 #23
Okay... understood... MrMickeysMom Apr 2013 #31
Did someone actually ask that question? gollygee Apr 2013 #22
Not directly whatchamacallit Apr 2013 #24
We're really reaching for the stars lately. MrSlayer Apr 2013 #25
i know you don't mean that-- hence the quotation marks. BlueCheese Apr 2013 #26
Agreed and noted MrMickeysMom Apr 2013 #29
But but but malaise Apr 2013 #30

longship

(40,416 posts)
27. Without context, how is anybody here to know what your post is about?
Tue Apr 23, 2013, 12:54 AM
Apr 2013

You used quote marks. Okay. I will bite.

Who said this? Or is this a sarcastic remark?

The tag is your friend in these posts. Or, provide sufficient context for us DU pedants.



On edit: upon reading the rest of this thread, I still don't know why you posted this OP. Whole waste of time, if you ask me.

whatchamacallit

(15,558 posts)
6. Right. For how long?
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 12:13 PM
Apr 2013

Gitmo long? Let's hope you're never "detained". Of course you don't worry because you're not a terrorist... but then how would anybody know without due process... Hmm... so circular and confusing...

musical_soul

(775 posts)
28. Not to mention....
Tue Apr 23, 2013, 01:22 AM
Apr 2013

I'd hate to see somebody go free because they were not mirandized. Not sure where the line is on that one, how much cops can get away with.

whatchamacallit

(15,558 posts)
9. Yeah, I know
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 12:23 PM
Apr 2013

The question is in quotes to ape a disturbing lack of reasoning by many DUers. It's facetious. Wonder how many times I'll have to explain this...


 

AnotherMcIntosh

(11,064 posts)
8. For anyone who needs to understand the justification for the Miranda rule, the best place to
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 12:21 PM
Apr 2013

look is the reasoning provided by Supreme Court in MIRANDA v. ARIZONA, 384 U.S. 436 (1966)
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=384&invol=436

Among other things, the Court explained:

"A recurrent argument made in these cases is that society's need for interrogation outweighs the privilege. This argument is not unfamiliar to this Court. See, e. g., Chambers v. Florida, 309 U.S. 227, 240 -241 (1940). The whole thrust of our foregoing discussion demonstrates that the Constitution has prescribed the rights of the individual when confronted with the power of government when it provided in the Fifth Amendment that an individual cannot be compelled to be a witness against himself. That right cannot be abridged. As Mr. Justice Brandeis once observed:

"Decency, security and liberty alike demand that government officials shall be subjected to the same rules of conduct that are commands to the citizen. In a government of laws, existence of the government will be imperilled if it fails to observe the law scrupulously. Our Government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the Government becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. To declare that in the administration of the criminal law the end justifies the means . . . would bring terrible retribution. Against that pernicious doctrine this Court should resolutely set its face." Olmstead v. United States, 277 U.S. 438, 485 (1928) (dissenting opinion).

"In this connection, one of our country's distinguished jurists has pointed out: "The quality of a nation's civilization can be largely measured by the methods it uses in the enforcement of its criminal law." If the individual desires to exercise his privilege, he has the right to do so. This is not for the authorities to decide. An attorney may advise his client not to talk to police until he has had an opportunity to investigate the case, or he may wish to be present with his client during any police questioning. In doing so an attorney is merely exercising the good professional judgment he has been taught. This is not cause for considering the attorney a menace to law enforcement. He is merely carrying out what he is sworn to do under his oath - to protect to the extent of his ability the rights of his client. In fulfilling this responsibility the attorney plays a vital role in the administration of criminal justice under our Constitution.

"In announcing these principles, we are not unmindful of the burdens which law enforcement officials must bear, often under trying circumstances. We also fully recognize the obligation of all citizens to aid in enforcing the criminal laws. This Court, while protecting individual rights, has always given ample latitude to law enforcement agencies in the legitimate exercise of their duties. The limits we have placed on the interrogation process should not constitute an undue interference with a proper system of law enforcement. As we have noted, our decision does not in any way preclude police from carrying out their traditional investigatory functions. Although confessions may play an important role in some convictions, the cases before us present graphic examples of the overstatement of the "need" for confessions. In each case authorities conducted interrogations ranging up to five days in duration despite the presence, through standard investigating practices, of considerable evidence against each defendant. Further examples are chronicled in our prior cases. See, e. g., Haynes v. Washington, 373 U.S. 503, 518 -519 (1963); Rogers v. Richmond, 365 U.S. 534, 541 (1961); Malinski v. New York, 324 U.S. 401, 402 (1945).


 

truebluegreen

(9,033 posts)
15. Because they are not "Guilty" until due process through the court system
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 01:42 PM
Apr 2013

determines that they are.

edited to add: And yes, I know it was a teaching moment. (I thought everyone did).

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
21. You DO realize what you just said, right?
Tue Apr 23, 2013, 12:00 AM
Apr 2013

Please say you do understand any finding of guilt is the result of a due process, and that everyone in this country is entitled to due process, which means innocent until proven guilty.

I know that during last 10 years, the USA has not demonstrated this in criminal justice. I know that often the founders of this country were to have set the stage for what kind of Americans we should be.



MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
31. Okay... understood...
Tue Apr 23, 2013, 09:06 AM
Apr 2013

I'm also reading an article in Asia Times (Pepe Escobar) that is provocative and I believe deserves an OP. Guess I better get ready to get flamed with this: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/World/WOR-01-230413.html

I'll read more carefully for quotes next time!

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
22. Did someone actually ask that question?
Tue Apr 23, 2013, 12:01 AM
Apr 2013

I've been busy so I don't know what all is up. I hope I didn't just miss that.

whatchamacallit

(15,558 posts)
24. Not directly
Tue Apr 23, 2013, 12:06 AM
Apr 2013

but there were a lot of "I don't care if his rights are observed" type posts. One DUer didn't want the suspect to have access to a lawyer because the lawyer might do his job. In other words, presumed guilty.

 

MrSlayer

(22,143 posts)
25. We're really reaching for the stars lately.
Tue Apr 23, 2013, 12:10 AM
Apr 2013

How about because you aren't guilty until you've been convicted in court? Due process, ever heard of it?

Seriously.

BlueCheese

(2,522 posts)
26. i know you don't mean that-- hence the quotation marks.
Tue Apr 23, 2013, 12:13 AM
Apr 2013

But you know, we don't really read people their rights before we blow them up using our drone program.

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