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boston bean

(36,186 posts)
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 11:05 AM Apr 2013

So, if a tornado is going to hit,

and you are advised to seek shelter by government officials, is that a lock down of an entire city?

It is a police state?

I'm starting to get really peeved with persons who are trying to make this into something it's not.

The officials did not want the suspect that they felt they had cornered, making an easy escape, via crowded public transit.

The officials didn't want innocent victims to be caught in a potential crossfire with a crazed fucking terrorist.

The officials, did not want large gatherings of persons taking place with a mad man with potential bombs, strapped to himself left as sitting ducks.

The people of Boston, Watertown and surrounding areas, seemed to understand this message loud and clear, and decided it was best for their own safety to let the officials do their jobs.

WTF people!? All of this seems like common sense to me.

51 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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So, if a tornado is going to hit, (Original Post) boston bean Apr 2013 OP
I just hide the threads Marrah_G Apr 2013 #1
Pathetic dorkzilla Apr 2013 #12
I truly felt that the reaction here in MA boston bean Apr 2013 #14
I agree with you Robyn66 Apr 2013 #33
Let me see malaise Apr 2013 #2
I think there's a contingent that thinks any display of force MineralMan Apr 2013 #3
nothing says "tornadoes win!" more than sheltering in cellars and bathtubs! renegade000 Apr 2013 #4
I go play in the streets to thumb my nose at the tornadoists. Liberal Veteran Apr 2013 #5
Dangerous ThoughtCriminal Apr 2013 #15
The only thing that can stop a bad tornado is a good guy with a gun. TeamPooka Apr 2013 #31
Or a good tornado with a gun... Javaman Apr 2013 #48
This made me LOL! boston bean Apr 2013 #8
DUzy worthy! Brother Buzz Apr 2013 #11
Ha ha! Perfect! distantearlywarning Apr 2013 #17
Good one nobodyspecial Apr 2013 #20
God damn tornadoes. Dr. Strange Apr 2013 #27
Ok, that's funny. redqueen Apr 2013 #32
Tornadoes ALWAYS win. Jamastiene Apr 2013 #38
Another refusenik here. I figured I was immune. From them and lightning. I'm batting 100 so far. freshwest Apr 2013 #41
i look for a mobile home park DeadEyeDyck Apr 2013 #6
Which is a good place to fly a kite at the same time! randome Apr 2013 #13
cool kite DeadEyeDyck Apr 2013 #18
Nothing to joke about. RebelOne Apr 2013 #21
I can imagine. randome Apr 2013 #25
Years ago, my Cousin's mobile home was hit by avebury Apr 2013 #36
You are not alone in that. Jamastiene Apr 2013 #39
This was an extraordinary event Are_grits_groceries Apr 2013 #7
Actually, it didn't require squat. jeff47 Apr 2013 #29
It's common sense in an uncommon situation Yo_Mama Apr 2013 #9
And if it does become common nobodyspecial Apr 2013 #23
Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom Yo_Mama Apr 2013 #34
I agree nt Progressive dog Apr 2013 #10
It also quite frankly belittles the notion of "Martial Law" or a "Police State"... brooklynite Apr 2013 #16
Perhaps you could do a firsthand OP about what a police state nobodyspecial Apr 2013 #24
After a tornado (or hurricane Sandy) police inspect damaged homes to ensure they were safe FarCenter Apr 2013 #19
What I don't get is what many would say if the cops didn't do this. Lady Freedom Returns Apr 2013 #22
not only that, renegade000 Apr 2013 #28
+1n/t Lady Freedom Returns Apr 2013 #30
That circle is like the snake eating its own tail. No end to it. freshwest Apr 2013 #45
Absolutely... pipi_k Apr 2013 #47
The argument could be made, ohheckyeah Apr 2013 #26
Actually, when tornado sirens go off, avebury Apr 2013 #35
That was the case in Jarrell, TX. on May 27th, 1997. I lived some miles away. It was hellish. freshwest Apr 2013 #46
April 3 - 4, 1974 pipi_k Apr 2013 #50
All indications I have seen and read are that the BPD REQUESTED or ASKED people Jamastiene Apr 2013 #37
When I was a kid and there was a snow day, I'd go WOOT! and have fun. According to DU, I should FSogol Apr 2013 #40
The amazing thing to me ... kentuck Apr 2013 #42
Well, having guys driving around throwing fragmentation explosive devices on the streets geek tragedy Apr 2013 #44
I think city dwellers get "the common good" thing and how cooperation in communities does work. bettyellen Apr 2013 #51
Like fundamentalists of all ideological stripes, they distort facts to match their ideology instead geek tragedy Apr 2013 #43
Progressivism should reflect common sense.It's common sense to ask the populace to stay indoors when stevenleser Apr 2013 #49

Marrah_G

(28,581 posts)
1. I just hide the threads
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 11:07 AM
Apr 2013

Not fucking worth it. They want to see the police, national guard, fbi, etc as all bad, all the time. Nothing we say here is going to change their minds.

dorkzilla

(5,141 posts)
12. Pathetic
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 11:45 AM
Apr 2013

The brothers were throwing explosives out of the window of their car just before the older brother was killed. There was no way law enforcement officials could have known if they were just going on another bombing spree. And what if the devices they found around Boston detonated on their own? Then they'd all be crying "the police didn't do their jobs"! The "hair on fire" crowd is starting to drown out the reasonable people.

For my part, as a long time lurker and short time poster, I have to say I am sickened by whats going on here. So for the time being, I'm done with DU. I am sad to see what's happening here.

Stay strong!!!

boston bean

(36,186 posts)
14. I truly felt that the reaction here in MA
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 11:48 AM
Apr 2013

would be one to emulate.

We kicked ass and got the job done.

We kept our cool and let the authorities handle it.

Authorities didn't harm any innocent person, like what happened in CA. It was as restrained as restrained could be. The public felt safe, they did their job. They did not over react to the situation, imho.

I just can't believe that what seems to be such common sense, to be used to tear down a region that just experienced a terror attack.

malaise

(267,838 posts)
2. Let me see
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 11:07 AM
Apr 2013

Isn't that what officials in the US said about forced evacuations when hurricanes are approaching Cuba?

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
3. I think there's a contingent that thinks any display of force
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 11:08 AM
Apr 2013

or arms by government is unacceptable. Are those who feel that way anarchists, pacifists, or something else? I have no idea, but it's a common theme, no matter what happens.

It all seemed quite appropriate to me in Boston, considering what the situation was there. The end result was the capture of a very dangerous person who had placed bombs in a crowd. I'm sure the people of Boston aren't offended by the police response at all. Some folks, though, will turn anything into some sort of nefarious government activity. To them, I say: Feh!

Jamastiene

(38,187 posts)
38. Tornadoes ALWAYS win.
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 07:44 PM
Apr 2013

They do as they please and if you are in the way, tornadoes don't care. They'll pick you up and throw you into the next county without a second thought. I think tornadoes ALWAYS win.

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
41. Another refusenik here. I figured I was immune. From them and lightning. I'm batting 100 so far.
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 10:09 AM
Apr 2013

Faced down small tornadoes on my property, looked them in the eye and they disappeared when the wind changed. Effing magic!

RebelOne

(30,947 posts)
21. Nothing to joke about.
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 06:09 PM
Apr 2013

I live in mobile home park in North Georgia and I am terrified when I hear the tornado sirens go off.

avebury

(10,946 posts)
36. Years ago, my Cousin's mobile home was hit by
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 07:39 PM
Apr 2013

a tornado (nobody home at the time which was good). To the dismay of her mother (my aunt), my cousin's dog survived. That is so bad! I would never wish that about anybody's pet.

Jamastiene

(38,187 posts)
39. You are not alone in that.
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 07:47 PM
Apr 2013

I live in a SWMH on 2/3 acre with only one other mobile home in the neighborhood. I lose it when they say a storm is spinning up. Last Friday, we had one that became a tornado just as it was leaving my neighborhood. I freaked. I'm still sore all over from that panic attack. I literally tensed up so bad, it made my muscles sore. Tornadoes do NOT play.

Are_grits_groceries

(17,111 posts)
7. This was an extraordinary event
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 11:17 AM
Apr 2013

that required "shelter in place" to protect people and make it easier to catch the bomber. If troops are deployed for tornadoes and the like usually it is to help in some way. They may have to protect the area from looters as a military exercise.

Unless this becomes a pattern for a lot of problems, then I'm not going to worry about it.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
29. Actually, it didn't require squat.
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 06:23 PM
Apr 2013

The police made a request. Lots of people complied. Fewer people didn't comply.

Nothing happened to those that didn't comply. That's how you know it wasn't martial law or similar.

You have the right to refuse a search if the police don't have a warrant. That doesn't mean you have to refuse a search if the police don't have a warrant.

Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
9. It's common sense in an uncommon situation
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 11:31 AM
Apr 2013

People don't want this to become common sense in common situations.

I agree it made nothing but sense in this situation, was good police procedure, and that people showed good sense in following the warnings.

nobodyspecial

(2,286 posts)
23. And if it does become common
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 06:09 PM
Apr 2013

Let's raise hell. In the meantime, I think common sense trumps ideological purity tests.

Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
34. Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 07:26 PM
Apr 2013

That's always going to be true.

I worry about SWAT teams and so forth very much. Also RICO. I am afraid our police are becoming militarized.

This, however, seems to be a completely different situation.

brooklynite

(93,878 posts)
16. It also quite frankly belittles the notion of "Martial Law" or a "Police State"...
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 02:28 PM
Apr 2013

...which SOME of us (myself included) have lived through. Suppression of free speech, interference in the political process, arbitrary arrest, etc.

nobodyspecial

(2,286 posts)
24. Perhaps you could do a firsthand OP about what a police state
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 06:11 PM
Apr 2013

really looks and feels like. It's as silly, simplistic and disrespectful as calling everyone you disagree with Nazis.

 

FarCenter

(19,429 posts)
19. After a tornado (or hurricane Sandy) police inspect damaged homes to ensure they were safe
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 06:02 PM
Apr 2013

before letting people back to their homes.

Do they have to get a warrant to do that?

Lady Freedom Returns

(14,120 posts)
22. What I don't get is what many would say if the cops didn't do this.
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 06:09 PM
Apr 2013

What if the guy was strapped up with a bomb? What if he was able to get into a house and hide, then come out at morning rush and run into the traffic and...

What would those that are mad about this say then? Would they be saying they should have search homes and have people stay in till they have the area cleared? Probably.

renegade000

(2,301 posts)
28. not only that,
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 06:22 PM
Apr 2013

but they'd probably be using the lack of a comprehensive search as evidence of some deeper government conspiracy to scare us into a police state

pipi_k

(21,020 posts)
47. Absolutely...
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 11:48 AM
Apr 2013

there are people who would complain no matter what was done.

It should always have been the other thing, in their opinions.

Frustrating as hell!

ohheckyeah

(9,314 posts)
26. The argument could be made,
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 06:18 PM
Apr 2013

not that I am, that we should be okay with searches, etc. to prevent the loss of life. But, let's face it, it takes a terrible tragedy before we are willing to soften about some of our stands against government intrusion.

The fact of the matter is, there is no one policy that fits all situations and none of us really know how we will react to any given situation until it arises. In a world that often feels like it has run amok we look for black and white answers, definitive rules, that fit every thing and every situation and it just doesn't work that way.

Being advised to take shelter during a natural disaster is something most of us have experienced to one extent or another; what happened in Watertown is not, and therefore is provoking a lot of feelings and discussion as we work out in our own minds what is and isn't acceptable to us. For most people it is hypothetical and therefore has little relevance to how we would really react were we in the position the people of Watertown were in. It's not personal and is therefore an intellectual exercise that doesn't take into account the emotions of the moment.

avebury

(10,946 posts)
35. Actually, when tornado sirens go off,
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 07:32 PM
Apr 2013

we are all outside looking for the tornado.

I don't get too hung up on tornado reporting unless they tell you to get below ground - then you know that it is really serious.

On the May 3rd, 1999 tornado it really didn't matter if you stayed inside. Unless you had a tornado cellar, if the tornado hit your house that day you could just kiss your butt good bye.

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
46. That was the case in Jarrell, TX. on May 27th, 1997. I lived some miles away. It was hellish.
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 11:44 AM
Apr 2013


Roads were pulled up along with the slabs of houses. Being in the bathroom didn't save some of them. Only those in the old storm cellars made it. Fortunately, most of the people in the area it hit were not at home but were in stronger buildings. The debris made it as far as Austin, TX.



pipi_k

(21,020 posts)
50. April 3 - 4, 1974
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 11:55 AM
Apr 2013

I was living in Smyrna, TN

That was the year of the giant tornado outbreak, including the one that decimated Xenia, OH.

Anyway, the radio had been giving tornado warnings all morning, and so when it got a little funny looking, I peeked out my front window and there are a shitload of my neighbors out on the lawn next door pointing up at the sky, watching the funnel come down.

I thought for sure I and the kids (2 and 4 at the time) were dead. No basement where I was. Never had experience with tornadoes, having been born and raised in Mass.

That tornado went the other direction.

The next month...May...we moved back up to Mass.

Jamastiene

(38,187 posts)
37. All indications I have seen and read are that the BPD REQUESTED or ASKED people
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 07:41 PM
Apr 2013

to shelter in place. To me, that is not a loss of civil liberties but only a REQUEST to stay out of the way of danger while they searched for a suspect who had kidnapped a person, bombed a large crowd at a marathon, killing 3 then, killed a police officer at MIT, thrown bombs (just like the ones used at the Boston Marathon) at police officers in highly populated neighborhoods, and had shoot outs with police most of the day.

I don't think they would have to ask me twice in that case. I would have stayed put and tried my damnedest not to get caught in the crossfire.

To me, there is a huge difference between being advised or requested/asked to do something and being FORCED to do it. It would just be common sense to take that advice in that situation.

FSogol

(45,362 posts)
40. When I was a kid and there was a snow day, I'd go WOOT! and have fun. According to DU, I should
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 08:49 PM
Apr 2013

have said, "The corporate police state/Obama is trying to make me stay home to take away my freedumbs!"

It seems like no event cannot be used to bash the police or administration. It gets very tiresome. DU should do better.*

Seems like the Boston area and especially law enforcement did an excellent jobs. Kudos.






* Honest criticism is not whining.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
44. Well, having guys driving around throwing fragmentation explosive devices on the streets
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 10:19 AM
Apr 2013

probably provided some incentive to stay indoors and off the streets.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
51. I think city dwellers get "the common good" thing and how cooperation in communities does work.
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 12:05 PM
Apr 2013
 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
43. Like fundamentalists of all ideological stripes, they distort facts to match their ideology instead
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 10:17 AM
Apr 2013

of the other way around.

Same thinking as those who claim background checks and health insurance for poor people are state tyranny.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
49. Progressivism should reflect common sense.It's common sense to ask the populace to stay indoors when
Mon Apr 22, 2013, 11:49 AM
Apr 2013

a dangerous situation like that is going on.

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