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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDylan Klebold and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev
I'll be honest. Even if the bombing had never happened, Tamerlan Tsarnaev doesn't seem like the kind of guy I would had liked. His appearance alone puts me off. He looks like someone who wears too much cologne if you know what I mean. Throw in the domestic abuse charge and I really get the picture of a swaggering... well, douchebag. Dzhokhar on the other hand seems like someone I might have regarded as a sweet kid. He looks almost angelic in the photos I've seen, with those big brown eyes, moppish hair, and baby face (I realize some photos circulating are from high school). The description of his laid-back personality also appeals to me. Even knowing what he did, I can't help feeling a twinge of pity for him. However, in the end both brothers are adults who are equally responsible for their evil actions. It may be true that Tamerlan was the leader, the mastermind, the dominant personality. But Dzhokhar wasn't being forced at gunpoint.
Comparisons have been made to the Colombine killers Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris. It seems to be commonly accepted now that Harris was the psychopath who engineered the whole massacre and Klebold was just some confused kid who went along for the ride. Yet Dylan killed multiple victims by himself. He went along with a plan to massacre innocent people, most of them kids too. I've always thought it unfair that Eric Harris' parents get to have their some remembered as a pure psychopath while Dylan Klebold's parents probably receive a bit more sympathy.
It doesn't matter how sweet and likable a person you are; when you do monstrous things, you've made yourself into a monster. It doesn't matter that it wasn't your idea or that a stronger personality talked you into it. People have free will and are supposed to resist others who would lead them toward evil. Dzhokar has no moral high ground above Tamerlan. His actions were equally evil. And if we feel any pity toward Dzhokar, then I don't think Tamerlan is less deserving of that if we analyze things rationally. One could argue that Dzhokar was the stronger one in a sense. He was better assimilated, with lots of American friends, unlike his brother. He was a naturalized citizen. He might have been able to pull his brother back from the brink of madness instead joining him there. No matter how much more likable Dzhokar seems than Tamerlan, I reject the idea that he was just a pawn in all this. He made his own choices.
dems_rightnow
(1,956 posts)Please expound on this.
Cooley Hurd
(26,877 posts)...than with facial characteristics.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)Oh, I think I know what the OP means. It's also why you're not likely to get a detailed explanation.
Thanks for picking out the line that made me
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)Nine
(1,741 posts)caseymoz
(5,763 posts)When it's a clear cut case of a guy killing four people; maiming, wounding, and injuring 170 others; throwing bombs in public and firing 200 rounds at the police, then all's fair, especially when a trial is moot.
I think the better than the OP's metaphor is the term "douche bag."
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)The guy is responsible for several deaths, hundreds of injuries, domestic violence and a day of terror in Boston, but it is too early at this time to conclude whether he wore too much cologne. We'll have to await the lab results before going there.
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)just for giggles.
Nine
(1,741 posts)MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)Probably for the reasons of identification enumerated in the OP (BTW, I'm still unconvinced that Dylan Klebold wasn't a self-motivated murdering asshole): he seems sweet. I don't know that he does. So he snowed a bunch of high school kids and liked to take hits from the bong. So what? I don't get it.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)behalf. Apparently you've missed the commentary from the many friends who knew him.
I think some people need to have neat and tidy groups of people: good/bad
With no possibility of one merging or morphing into the other.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)I also think some people need neat categories of good and bad, but I'm certainly not one of them.
MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)and believe that both of them weren't just out and out killers is delusional. I mean, think about it. You have your freedom to go and do pretty much whatever you want-have family, have cars, good schools and none of that is enough in life? Gotta shoot / bomb people at point blank range-screw em'. These are not killers with a shred of conscience. They have none.
Shankapotomus
(4,840 posts)played by the younger brother in these horrific crimes, however, we should take note that there were no actual innocent deaths we can attribute to the younger brother after the older brother was killed.
If fact, we know Dzhoukar even (albeit accidentally) took out Tamberlan for us, although probably while he was being subdued.
Of course, after his brother's death Dzoukar did shoot at police, unsuccessfully.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)except I argue that nineteen is not an adult. It's a transitional stage.
Both young men are sociopaths. You cannot take part in something like this if you aren't seriously messed up, capable of feeling nothing for the pain of others. No matter the influence of another who appears to be more in charge.
Look at the self-satisfied face of Dzho immediately after the bombing. This is the face of a sociopath. He is smiling and pleased with himself.
Younger bro was every bit as messed up. He just had a better cover.
bluedigger
(17,086 posts)But it is no excuse, just as you say. We have free will, know the difference between right and wrong, and should expect to face consequences for our actions. No sympathy from me.
Benton D Struckcheon
(2,347 posts)Doesn't sound like someone who was all sweet.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)he can feel remorse and spend the rest of his life in prison finding something to give back to society.
I believe in redemption and rehabilitation.
Dxhokhar may very well be able to be reached. Maybe by his coach.
This young man has a chance to realize what he did was wrong, he hurt innocent people and he now has a life behind bars left for doing something worthwhile.
Zax2me
(2,515 posts)Let's not tie Klebold to Islam.
caseymoz
(5,763 posts)Whatever mental path he took to get there doesn't matter. It's irrelevant to his guilt, it's irrelevant to the punishment for the guilt. The good kid he was is history.
If this were a fiction where nobody real gets hurt, or a nonfiction book written after the case is settled, then sympathy might be appropriate. You get to know people in such works the way you never get to know them in real life. A certain detachment from the damage and trauma is appropriate, either because they're not real or because they're in the dead past. (Though even there you have to remember also it's a writer's interpretation of him.)
But in The World, the damage he did is real and can't be reversed, nullified, or rewritten. Consideration of his exact thought processes have nothing to do with his case now. They are only good if they help us spot the next creep who might do this and somehow stop him.