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cali

(114,904 posts)
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 04:08 AM Apr 2013

Young Men Are Weird

There’s something I’ve been thinking about since we saw those shaky images on Thursday afternoon. David Remnick’s piece captures a part of it in a phrase: “the toxic combination of high-minded zealotry and the curdled disappointments of young men.”

<snip>

When we saw those pictures on Thursday it wasn’t clear there would be a foreign connection. To me, frankly, they looked like frat guys. It even occurred to me whether the perpetrators had consciously put on this sort of get up to disguise themselves. Knowing what we know now, that seems unlikely. But when I did see those pictures and see what looked more like frat kids than jihadis or white supremacists the thought that came to mind to me was Columbine — no clear ideology just the hard underlying precipitate of young male alienation, cockiness and aggression.

It now seems clear that Islamic radicalism played some role in these attacks, quite possibly a lot (as evidenced by the older brother’s profile, recent trip to Caucasus and Russia’s apparent tip to the FBI), but we need to wait to get a fuller picture.

However that may be, and speaking in general as opposed to about this particular case, I don’t think we should see these as mutually exclusive explanations. Particularly in America and with young men like this I think these ideologies are something more like sheaths into which the same young unattached male toxicity is poured.

http://editors.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2013/04/young_men.php?ref=fpblg

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BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
2. attributing this to young men in general
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 04:50 AM
Apr 2013

makes no more sense to me than to Islam or Muslims. Yes, young men commit the highest proportion of crimes, but only a small percentage of them are even criminals let alone terrorists.

rightsideout

(978 posts)
3. Good point
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 05:17 AM
Apr 2013

Most of the World's problems are due to testosterone.

All the conquering over the centuries. The raping, pillaging, theft, polluting, torture, greed, war, infatuation with weapons. Mostly men who can't control what's going on between their legs.

So yea, most of the world's ills come down to men in general. The younger ones are just more sloppy about it.

There's really no difference between white supremacists and jihadists. Underneath, they are still men who use their uncontrolled aggression as a means to an end. To stop it just castrate them all. Not all men. LOL. Just the ones that use their aggression to hurt others. Send them to jail and castrate them or as my dad always says. "Hang em by their balls."

Divernan

(15,480 posts)
6. High testosterone levels plus the "curdled disappointments of young men"
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 06:14 AM
Apr 2013

According to MayoClinic.com, testosterone levels in men peak during the teen and early adult years, then decrease about 1 percent a year after age 30.

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/228100-when-does-your-testosterone-level-start-to-drop/#ixzz2R5dWggnq

I understand "curdled disappointments" to refer to the low self esteem of under-educated, under-employed young men who are working at low-paid, dead end jobs - or long term unemployed - which means they are still living at home with their parents or a a greatly reduced standard of living compared to that which they experienced growing up. These young men are targets for advertising - getting them to define their self-worth by the car they drive or having the latest i-phone. And yes, I understand that young women are also dealing with self-esteem problems from being underemployed and underpaid - plus added stress if they are not anorexic-level thin and otherwise "hot". But young women don't have the testosterone fueled aggressiveness and don't identify their sexuality with fast cars and guns.

The military has long used psy-ops based on young men's testosterone levels and low self-esteem to recruit. And even the two bombers' own uncle referred to them as "losers". When one is a loser, one looks for someone to blame, or to look down on. This really fuels hatreds of all sorts, and particularly racism. "Well, I may be an uneducated, unemployed loser with no future, but at least I'm white!"

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
4. There's no way (for me) around the fact that basically only young men do this sort of thing
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 06:11 AM
Apr 2013

Along with pretty much all of the rest of the violence out there.

Not that that leads to any particularly workable solutions, just saying.

ManiacJoe

(10,136 posts)
7. This really should not surprise anyone.
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 06:18 AM
Apr 2013

Violence tends to require speed, strength, and agility. This tends to be the realm of young males, as any military recruiter will tell you. The use of tools just allows the not-so strong or fast or agile to participate at a reasonable level.

October

(3,363 posts)
11. That, combined with immature brain development
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 06:54 AM
Apr 2013

Clearly, none of these perps think things through - typical of young adults.

The seeming rise of rape culture, too, involves young males who seem oblivious to rules, decency - these types of criminals are sociopathic and feel victimized when caught. Mind-boggling.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
14. If by 'this sort of thing' you mean bombings, unibomber started at 36 Nichols was 40
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 08:48 AM
Apr 2013

the first WTC bombing, was that the youth? No. Is 36 super young? 40?

midnight

(26,624 posts)
5. I don't think this article makes this matter more understandable via the journalists weird idea that
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 06:13 AM
Apr 2013

young men are weird... In fact, in high school, I found that the whole foot ball team could meet this guys interpretation of cockiness and aggression.

Quantess

(27,630 posts)
8. This article reads like the author woke up hungover,
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 06:26 AM
Apr 2013

remembered they needed to write something for the deadline, and scrambled this together.

DCBob

(24,689 posts)
9. The authors choice of title is "weird".
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 06:36 AM
Apr 2013

He might as well say humans are weird. The characteristics cited in the article are part of normal human nature... the factors that lead an individual to terrorism and mass violence are something else.

sorefeet

(1,241 posts)
12. Yeah young men are wierd.
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 07:07 AM
Apr 2013

For fucks sake I used to be a young man and trust me your so full of testosterone that things sometimes do get a little weird. I think some of the commenters on DU are weird because they have to be so politically correct that they lose plain old common sense. I know what your saying cali.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
13. Humans haven't remotely evolved to adapt to civilization yet
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 07:40 AM
Apr 2013

In evolutionary terms we are all cavemen and cavewomen existing in an environment for which we aren't remotely adapted.

The "weird" behavior of young men is simply a manifestation of the aggression needed by the hunter portion of a hunter gatherer society when you take the hunters out of their bear skins and caves and put them in Aeropostales and subdivisions.

Gracile naked apes who have evolved to hunt woolly mammoths and defend against smilodons with pointed sticks and chutzpah aren't going to be an excellent fit for civilization.

As Neal Stephenson pointed out in The Cryptonomicon, we are all stupendous badasses who are the result of hundreds of millions of years of natural selection in which only stupendous badasses lived to pass on their genes to the next generation. The miracle is that the great majority of us are adaptable enough to fit ourselves into civilization.

The author is a maroon, to put it kindly.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
17. Sports and the Army
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 09:33 AM
Apr 2013

that's about all we've got for 'em. I could imagine some other alternatives.

Tamerlan got thwarted from his boxing career...bitter and angry about that...

I haven't seen this mentioned here, but what about the possible influence of sport-enhancing steroids on Tamarlan?

Steroids can even make people turn to religious zealotry (I've seen it).

(---------I agree, it's a miracle we even have some degree of civilization at this point.... )

 

alphafemale

(18,497 posts)
15. Many people are weird. Some weirdos use that as a reason to bring hurt and pain into the world.
Sun Apr 21, 2013, 09:01 AM
Apr 2013

Others bring art, and music and joy.

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