General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAmericans need to face a few sad facts
first of all we are a corrupt, violent society, ignorant of the world around us. We equate freedom with the endless purchase and possession of guns, whereas in reality our freedoms should lie in Washington, where our so called representatives are slowly eroding our civil liberties. We have a government whose only interest lies in the re election of its own members, and where the interests of the people and the country itself are left in the dust. Decisions are made according to re election needs, and according to the size of so called campaign contributions (bribes). We have a sorry history of mass murders since this gun madness began in the texas towers in the 60's and has continued unabated since then, with no end in sight.
We equate everything evil with muslims who are, if you read the koran with an open mind, far more peaceful than christians and, over time, have caused far less sorrow and destruction than the Christians including yes, that old bug a boo, the crusades. Yes the Koran does condone the killing of infidels only, and only if, the Muslims right to pray is impeded or violated. Even then, it is best parlay and settle the problem diplomatically, via a discussion and, if nothing works, then he may resort to violence. The Koran also mentions that respect must be shown to both jews and christians, since they descend from holy prophets, such as Abraham, Moses and Jesus. The bible, booth old and new, and the church, advocates killing anyone who disagrees with established dogma.
No I am not a Muslim; in fact I am a devout atheist who wants to see religion and all that superstitious nonsense banned.
As for terrorists, let's look at home first. What is the definition of a terrorist? One who creates terri, death and destruction anywhere which is convenient to someone's particular cause. Let us look no further than Cuba, the Phillipines, Greece, Argentina, Brazil, Iran, Chile, Nicaragua, El Salvador and Panama. All countries in which we have toppled democratically elected governments and replaced them with thugs such as Noriega, Pinochet and the Shah of Iran.
Once we step off our pedestal and realize that our arrogance and hypocrisy are the cause of many world wide problems, things might improve a bit.
The really sad fact is that Americans are so proud of calling them selves Christians, when in reality our whole lives are spent doing everything contrary to Jesus's teachings. We crave wealth and possessions, we are becoming less and less tolerant towards others and our once proud traditions of generosity and philanthropy towards the less fortunate are being eroded and replaced with greed and selfishness. We create wars for the sake of profit, and our lives dominated by one thing only - money.
Yes you may say, but what about foreign aid? Foreign aid as a rule goes to those who possessions we crave. Oil, minerals, gold etc...When Rwandans were killing each other with the blessing of the Church what did we do? Nothing really, they have no oil or wealth to mention.
We need to wake up and realize that, like it or not, the world belongs to all of us, and the worse we make it, the worse off we will become. America had the potential to be great, to create a world unknown to humanity before, populated by men of genius and eloquence in our government (Jefferson, Franklin etc..) and we are now reduced to the likes of mumbling idiots such as Bush and Palin.
What has happened to us? What has happened to the vision of Americans the world had of us, of the selfless G.I who sacrificed his life willingly for others, and whom the world loved and respected?
Response to historian (Original post)
rug This message was self-deleted by its author.
OKNancy
(41,832 posts)kelly1mm
(4,732 posts)whathehell
(29,034 posts)It's applied to Americans and/or Christians. .
I, along with you, don't make those exceptions.
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)Second Question: Are paragraph breaks missing from most manifestos?
Third Question: How do they make Cheetos so damn tasty?
Gregorian
(23,867 posts)It seems that is what bought down the World Trade Center towers.
It may have nothing to do with the marathon bombing. That might have been ignorance, hopelessness, child abuse, and any number of things. But I think there is a context within which we operate.
KG
(28,751 posts)DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)Ok, got it.
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)not.
what a hackneyed rant.
snagglepuss
(12,704 posts)deaniac21
(6,747 posts)sarisataka
(18,500 posts)upaloopa
(11,417 posts)opinion.
malaise
(268,721 posts)but you raise valid points.
BeyondGeography
(39,351 posts)bvar22
(39,909 posts)A spacer line in between paragraphs will make long swatches of text easier to read on a monitor.
Please note that ALL of the attackers above have resorted to Ad Hominems.
None of them have addressed any of the content you have posted.
Your post is not really all that controversial,
but is certain to rankle those who believe in USA Exceptionalism,
and prefer the easy road of simply blaming others for our problems.
While Blaming Others creates a shallow, angry facade of righteousness,
it has never proved useful in solving problems,
or changing things for the better.
Kudos for those who aren't afraid to look in the mirror.
DURec.
fleur-de-lisa
(14,624 posts)you might have noticed that this poster had some good points. Although I don't agree with the first sentence (I don't consider myself to be 'corrupt, violent, or ignorant of the world' around me), some good points were made.
But, no, let's all read the first sentence, pinpoint the technical errors, and proclaim this as flame bait. This is why DU sometimes needs a reality check. As in, check the cynical version of yourself at the door and perhaps read beyond the first sentence.
TheKentuckian
(25,020 posts)Breaks are good for the digestion of the eye.
rightsideout
(978 posts)Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)JNelson6563
(28,151 posts)I agree with what you say in the OP, Historian. I think our society may one day implode.
Sad to see some of the responses to this post.
Julie
Are so right Julie.
You have no idea how right you are. Actually, you probably do.
DakotaLady
(246 posts)... your well chosen words were what I was thinking.
Thank you
johnnyreb
(915 posts)It's a beautiful day in much of the country and everyone is savoring the relief of the recent bombing arrest. It's understandable that some are not ready to jump right back into the heavy stuff. Unfortunately the bad guys count on that.
olddots
(10,237 posts)or typing
historian
(2,475 posts)I had expected some intelligent answers to my post in DU. Instead all i saw was the usual infantile responses of insults, idiotic comments about my grammar and a complete lack of historical understanding to any of the facts i raised concerning out involvement in other countries, Why is this? Again, ignorance pure and simple. I wonder how many of you even know where Chile is? Or how many of you have heard of the desaparecidos in Argentina which we caused? Judging by the general response, not many. Not matter how blogs i raise this subject in I rarely hear objective, studious or open minded responses; only silly childish insults and responses. You don't have to agree with me by any means; after all i was only expressing my opinion. However, the immediate responses of knee jerk hatred and ignorance i received only confirms my point - America is on its way out due to this very ignorance and inability to face reality.
In any case Johnny thank you for your response. It's obvious i won't find much intelligent discourse in DU which is sad so - that's it then. Bye
Bernardo de La Paz
(48,966 posts)It is ridiculous to blame it on the US and say that the right wing Argentinians and military didn't do it.
Over-drawn hyperbole sabotages a line of argument. Too much or too deep self-flagellation is counter-productive.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)echo chamber echo chamber echo chamber echo chamber...
Bernardo de La Paz
(48,966 posts)Took you over 2000 posts to reach that conclusion?
Please let me know when you find a site with "intelligent discourse" high enough to meet your standards for discussion and debate (and not simply meet your political point of view). I'd sincerely would like to add good sites to the ones I visit.
Bye-bye.
Gidney N Cloyd
(19,824 posts)...a little attention to how we express ourselves will earn us a wider audience for what we want to say.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(48,966 posts)cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Mnemosyne
(21,363 posts)Americans need to face a few sad facts
first of all we are a corrupt, violent society, ignorant of the world around us. We equate freedom with the endless purchase and possession of guns, whereas in reality our freedoms should lie in Washington, where our so called representatives are slowly eroding our civil liberties.
We have a government whose only interest lies in the re election of its own members, and where the interests of the people and the country itself are left in the dust.
Decisions are made according to re election needs, and according to the size of so called campaign contributions (bribes). We have a sorry history of mass murders since this gun madness began in the texas towers in the 60's and has continued unabated since then, with no end in sight.
We equate everything evil with muslims who are, if you read the koran with an open mind, far more peaceful than christians and, over time, have caused far less sorrow and destruction than the Christians including yes, that old bug a boo, the crusades. Yes the Koran does condone the killing of infidels only, and only if, the Muslims right to pray is impeded or violated. Even then, it is best parlay and settle the problem diplomatically, via a discussion and, if nothing works, then he may resort to violence. The Koran also mentions that respect must be shown to both jews and christians, since they descend from holy prophets, such as Abraham, Moses and Jesus. The bible, both old and new, and the church, advocates killing anyone who disagrees with established dogma.
No I am not a Muslim; in fact I am a devout atheist who wants to see religion and all that superstitious nonsense banned.
As for terrorists, let's look at home first. What is the definition of a terrorist? One who creates terri, death and destruction anywhere which is convenient to someone's particular cause. Let us look no further than Cuba, the Phillipines, Greece, Argentina, Brazil, Iran, Chile, Nicaragua, El Salvador and Panama. All countries in which we have toppled democratically elected governments and replaced them with thugs such as Noriega, Pinochet and the Shah of Iran.
Once we step off our pedestal and realize that our arrogance and hypocrisy are the cause of many world wide problems, things might improve a bit.
The really sad fact is that Americans are so proud of calling them selves Christians, when in reality our whole lives are spent doing everything contrary to Jesus's teachings. We crave wealth and possessions, we are becoming less and less tolerant towards others and our once proud traditions of generosity and philanthropy towards the less fortunate are being eroded and replaced with greed and selfishness. We create wars for the sake of profit, and our lives dominated by one thing only - money.
Yes you may say, but what about foreign aid? Foreign aid as a rule goes to those who possessions we crave. Oil, minerals, gold etc...When Rwandans were killing each other with the blessing of the Church what did we do? Nothing really, they have no oil or wealth to mention.
We need to wake up and realize that, like it or not, the world belongs to all of us, and the worse we make it, the worse off we will become. America had the potential to be great, to create a world unknown to humanity before, populated by men of genius and eloquence in our government (Jefferson, Franklin etc..) and we are now reduced to the likes of mumbling idiots such as Bush and Palin.
What has happened to us? What has happened to the vision of Americans the world had of us, of the selfless G.I who sacrificed his life willingly for others, and whom the world loved and respected?
Hope it is alright, just thought more will take time to read with breaks. It is very worth reading!
moonbeam23
(308 posts)Mnemosyne
(21,363 posts)madrchsod
(58,162 posts)the problem we have is how we are to effect change.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)That's spin. The actual term is "Arms Sales".
avogadro
(24 posts)this is the biggest truckload of shit I have ever read. This is why wing nuts say we on the left hate America.
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)Which parts are wrong? I missed them.
Skeeter Barnes
(994 posts)Doesn't seem to me like he hates America. He just isn't pretending it's perfect like some people do.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)have to say! Wing nuts are the far, far fringes of society.
Wing nuts hate America so much they support every rotten, anti-American idea thought up by their wing nut leaders.
Liberals, otoh, oppose what is BAD for America. The OP has a lot of truth to it. I notice you didn't argue any of the points made. Wingnuts do that too. They just lash out but never discuss things they are afraid of.
What specific things in the OP are you calling 'a truckload of shit'? The OP had the guts to state his/her opinions, you don't seem willing to share yours other than a ridiculous and laughable fear of what 'wing nuts' might think of the 'left'.
I would be worried if wing nuts ever started agreeing with us. I would have to re-examine our positions to ensure we hadn't gone off the rails.
Arctic Dave
(13,812 posts)Seems you got the dander up of the local, Merica! Love it or leave it, crowd. Which is always a good sign.
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)Some would rather remain in denial because it makes it easier to sleep at night. Denial doesn't fix shit though.
LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)Yes, what you say is true of some Americans but certainly not all of them.
Herlong
(649 posts)And keep going!!
humbled_opinion
(4,423 posts)Is that there simply is not enough to share equally, is it fair that Americans consume the majority of the worlds resources? Simple answer no. But what are you going to do about it? Force people here to live the life a third world nation? That will never happen people in America are born and raised to respect greed, of course we teach our children to share and we hope to instill that desire in each of them but I ask you have you ever did poorly on a test in school and someone else did really well? Is that fair? maybe you fail and get a defeatist mentality and no one is there to help you overcome it.... ever been to Mali or Sudan? Greed is the founding principle of America, I argue it is the soul of the American dream, are you championing the destruction of the American Dream? Our poorest have it better than billions of others in the world.
NRaleighLiberal
(60,008 posts)Broad generalization, but I think mankind in general is easily corruptible and far too much violence is seen as "the solution" in an us-vs-then environment. Are we ignorant of the world around us? I think many in the country do live in a bubble, but, again, it is a broad generalization.
Not sure that is how many describe "freedom", nor is it endless, but I certainly agree that we too easily give up our civil liberties because of our overreaction to events. And that is because, fear is such a strong motivator (and I blame the 24 hr endless looping newscycle - TV - in part for that)
I largely agree with that, and the direction it is heading seems toward worse, than better.
Brief comment - I suspect we've always had incidents, but the ability to report (and repeat) events due to TV, 24 hr newscycle and social media puts it front and center when it occurs.
No comment on that for me. My beliefs are what they are, and I feel no need to either follow or convert. This is just too big an issue for me to even grapple with...but tragic events certainly inflame and enable hatred of those who are not like us.
I suspect that most governments of the world have things they should not have done - not forgiving what we do, but we've done them....and of course reputation is always going to be impacted by actions. We as a country have to live with that, as all countries do. And in a world that will be increasingly impacted by climate change, my crystal ball isn't hopeful for world peace...it is going to be messy and awful at some point.
Another very broad generalization. don't get me started on the hypocrisy of religion as practices by some.
See my comments above about how no government has clean hands in this area.
What has happened to us? What has happened to the vision of Americans the world had of us, of the selfless G.I who sacrificed his life willingly for others, and whom the world loved and respected?
At 57, my wife and I discuss this often - what has happened to us? Or, is it that as we age, we see things differently, notice more? I don't like the whole "great nation" concept, because to me, it is about the world as an organism. We each have our own personal bugaboos (mine is TV - obviously - group think, greed and ego - they drive me crazy). But...all we can do is what each of us feel needs to be done, even in tiny ways, to be part of the solution, not just another element of the problems.
dem in texas
(2,673 posts)Don't use the word "we". You are stating your opinions, not speaking for American society as a whole. I do think you have some good points, but many of your remarks are way off target.
Drew Richards
(1,558 posts)Your interpretation of the Koran and its tenets are horse shit at best and at worst diametrically opposed to the stated tenets themselves. I stopped reading after your second absolute falsehood in interpretations i assumed after being unable to be truthful about the tenets then you really have nothing to say.
Instead you came here to preach you own version of reality...no thanks.
mountain grammy
(26,598 posts)I think most on DU know the realities of our history of meddling and interfering all over the world while ignoring violations of freedom in our own country. Our history is filled with shameful events of unspeakable cruelty. True blue freedom loving Americans committing all kinds of atrocities while waving the great stars and stripes.
That said, name one country whose history isn't the same. No, I'm not excusing it, but it does seem to be a human nature thing. Necessary steps to a civil and just society that people of good faith keep striving for, and, by faith, I don't necessarily mean religion. We can rant about it, or we can work on ourselves and those around us to try to change things.
There is so much good and beauty in America and in the world, I refuse to give in to the dark forces. Every new person gives us hope for the future.
My life is winding down, and, while I won't ignore the ugly and will always speak out against it, I have to concentrate on the good.
RC
(25,592 posts)That's why so many were denigrating your OP. They don't want to face the truth. They like the seeming "power" of us going into other countries and throwing our weight around. USA,USA,USA, RAH, RAH, RAH! As along as "they" don't come here and do the same thing to us, as we have done and are doing, to them. The pressure cooker bombers is an uncomfortable reminder of that.
There is nothing wrong with your use "we" either, as most of us are at fault in some way for the current situation, both here and abroad. From the blind hero worshipers, regardless of the bullying and war crimes, we as a country do, to those who think using our flag as robe is somehow good and patriotic. Karma is real. We really do reap what we sow, whether it is as a individual, or as a country.
Don't be discourage. Don't be afraid to speak up. It gives the more timid courage to also speak up, even if they just start with REC'd.
Word salad, my ass. They just don't want to understand. It makes them uncomfortable and embarrassed, for they realize how wrong they are.
forestpath
(3,102 posts)how do you propose "see religion and all that superstitious nonsense banned"?
While I think organized religion is the most destructive force on the face of the earth, you can't control what people believe. That would make us no better than fundamentalists.
ReRe
(10,597 posts)... I agree with everything you said. Unlike some of us here on DU, I was not turned off by the appearance of your OP. When someone types like that, I stop and give it my fullest attention. Especially when someone calls themselves "historian."
I agree with you. The USA could have been "the shining city on the hill," had it taken the road less traveled. The road of peace, of truth, of knowledge and science, of good will to the world. We could have wiped out hunger in our life time. We could have stopped the killing wars and used the money to build a better country for our selves and many others several times over. There would have been no violent blowbacks. We could have stomped violence and hate to the ground. And I believe that turn in the road could have lead to much more profit than we did after taking the other route.
I was overwhelmed by the words of the Uncle of the young Boston Marathon bomber. What he said was all true. We do have it good in this country. Unlike where he came from, he is free to live and believe what he wants in this country. He can walk down the street and not be accosted. He can work hard and own a home and care for and enjoy his family. We US citizens often take these freedoms for granted.
Because not all of us can have a job with a decent living wage and work hard and take care of our families anymore. That American Dream is gone. Pensions gone, health care gone, Labor Unions gone, home foreclosures up, hunger up, 300 million guns on the loose in God only knows who's hands, kids joining the military in hopes of a college education which they will never see, as they will come home with PTSD, or mutilated/maimed, or worse dead.
Yes, this country took the road most traveled. The route of greed, avarice, hate, intolerance, and violence. We are free, to the extent that the Uncle mentioned. But more and more of us are free also to be homeless, unemployed, hungry, hopeless. And here we are, historian. Like my Mom used to say, we must "take all these sour lemons and make lemonade." We must continue on, fighting the good fight, doing everything we can to change our country for the better. We have no alternative, do we?
DJWBlue
(33 posts)tblue
(16,350 posts)tecelote
(5,122 posts)and they win.
That's why they're here. To drown out opposing opinions and annoy people with strong beliefs that they oppose.
MineralMan
(146,262 posts)How does one create "terri." I have a friend, Terri, and she has nothing whatever to do with violence of any kind. She was created in the same way we all are created, by her parents.
It is entirely possible that there is an idea somewhere in your post, but I'll be damned if I can find it amid the confusing capitalization, punctuation, misspellings and strange structure of your post.
My advice: Slow down. Write carefully. Proofread even more carefully. Read your own post before clicking the Post button.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)I agree with most of what you say other than banning religion. I haven't much use for religion myself however as history has proven, if you take a person's faith from them, it becomes stronger. If you leave it alone people fall away from their faiths. I do believe established religions should pay taxes and be regulated for human rights abuses.
Unfortunately, no one will listen to what you have to say, looking just at the snark you already have received in replies.
Thank you from me anyway.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)dogknob
(2,431 posts)The vocabulary of the willingly assimilated is rather puny, no?
Don't let the bastards grind you down, historian. Our culture needs a sweeping and complete change in its thinking and values. This will never happen if we allow ourselves to be intimidated by those who, rather than listen and think, scan our words for ways they can shut down the discussion.
If you had done this on video, betcha some hawtie on GEFOXMSNBCNN would be rolling her eyes and pronouncing it "depressing."