Ralph Nader on Bush Presidency: He Is Comfortable with Bush’s Inferno

[Coyotl]

Thanks to Ralph Nader, Gore lost the chance to be president even though he won.

Is Nader comfortable with what he did to world history?

He Is Comfortable with Bush’s Inferno
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2013/04/20-4

George W. Bush is riding high. A megamillionaire, from the taxpayer-subsidized Texas Rangers company, he makes $150,000 to $200,000 per speech, receives a large presidential pension and support facilities and is about to dedicate the $500 million George W. Bush Presidential Library and Museum on April 25.

President Obama will be at the dedication, continuing to legitimize Mr. Bush, as he did from the outset by announcing in 2009 there would be no investigations or prosecutions of the Bush officials for their crimes.

In an interview with the New York Times, Mr. Bush continued to say he has no regrets about his Presidency. “I’m comfortable with what I did,” ....

[still_one]

1. and you Mr. Nader will forgotten

[hrmjustin]

2. I can never forgive Nader for what he did.

I know he had the right to run but he knew he was hurting Gore and he still went forward with it and look what it got us. You can say with the use of exit polls and and raw vote from 2000 that gore would have won those states without nader on the ballot.

[betterdemsonly]

53. Nobody has to care about an opposing candidate

no one does. Given that Gore is dlc and given that he chose Lieberman has his running mate, is to probable he would have gotten us into Iraq as well. That is the record of the dlc.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

76. Not a fan of Nader at all

but yeah, why the fuck did Gore choose Lieberman? Clinton left office with a 65% approval rating. That election should never have been close.

[hrmjustin]

91. Gore was against the Iraq war.

Gore would have made a good president and while Nader was not the only reason he did not become president it is a large reason.

[betterdemsonly]

92. Gore has a record of acting differently after retirement

than he did when in office. Fair weather guy that he seems to be. Many dems opposed the wars when they were seen as Bush wars.

[hrmjustin]

93. First I did not get to welcome you to Du so Welcome to Du betterdemsonly.

Second you have a point that he was a hawk when he was in office. But he did come out against the war in 2002.

[betterdemsonly]

94. Thank you!

n/t

[GeorgeGist]

3. Still beating that red herring, eh?

Btw Nader isn't a member of scotus.

[Coyotl]

5. What percent of the Florida vote went to Nader?

You don't need much education to do math.

[pnwmom]

15. 95000 votes went to Nader. The case would never have ended up at SCOTUS otherwise.

[betterdemsonly]

64. Gore should have worked harder to win

Green voters.

[DevonRex]

4. You have got to be FUCKING KIDDING ME. FUCK RALPH NADER

AND COMMON DREAMS.

Ralph Nader gave us George W. Bush and he has the goddamned motherfucking NERVE to criticize OBAMA for going to the opening of the a presidential library?????????

Fuck Ralph Nader to hell and back.

[dionysus]

79. +1000000

[DevonRex]

83. ...

[Ash_F]

6. Wow DUers are furious at Nader

...for being a better Dem then most elected Dems.

[Hekate]

8. It's the hypocrisy, and btw he's not a Democrat

Nader used to be worth something. Now he is a smug self-righteous hypocrite who does harm to us all.

[Coyotl]

10. No. Nader is hated for handing the election away.

[betterdemsonly]

54. Nader is a liberal

not a democrat. Gore is a conservative democrat. I voted for him, but given what we know now about dlcers, and the third way, I consider it unlikely Gore would have resisted the temptation to get into the Iraq war.

[Coyotl]

70. Gore would never have started a war on iraq without reason to do so

and there was no real reason to do so.

[betterdemsonly]

81. Obama would never add chained cpi to social security

Obama would never approve of Keystone!

There are many things people believe about dlcers that turn out not to be true.

[Coyotl]

84. WOW, that's the biggest false equivalency ever!

[betterdemsonly]

88. Comparing Gore to Obama and Clinton is a false

equivalency?

[Coyotl]

89. The Iraq war vs. negotiating detail that won't happen in the budget

If I'm willing to propose a detail in a budget that does not mean I'm willing to start a war based on lies.

[betterdemsonly]

90. So you believe President Gore would have supported cpi?

Interesting.

[BeyondGeography]

13. No difference between Bush and Gore!1!1!1!1!1!1!1!1

The greatest example of political dumbfuckery ever.

[betterdemsonly]

55. There isn't enough of a difference for many economic

and environmental liberals.

[BeyondGeography]

67. Then they are total and utter fools

Bush's unaffordable tax cuts plus his war on Iraq, neither of which any sane liberal can safely would have been pursued by Gore, account for half of our $17 trillion debt.

As for the environment, the trade offs are even worse; someone who would have led on climate change and alternative energy vs. an oil industry science denier.

There were profound differences. We lost.

[betterdemsonly]

82. Have the democrats reversed these things since

they controlled both houses and the presidency for a full two years. If these things are so bad, how come they are not different now that the dems have won.

Since Gore stood against the ratifying kyoto protocol as vp, I am skeptical he would have been much of a leader when President.

[Lizzie Poppet]

7. Of course he is. He's a self-satisfied asshole who handed Bush the office.

Fuck Ralph Nader and fuck his vanity candidacy.

[Luminous Animal]

21. Hahaha! It is an article BY Nader ABOUT Obama and the title of the OP is the headline.

Last edited Sat Apr 20, 2013, 09:25 PM - Edit history (2)

In other words, Nader isn't comfortable with Bush's inferno but rather, Obama that is comfortable with Bush's inferno.

[blue neen]

30. That is not how the title of the OP reads.

Clever, but misleading.

[Luminous Animal]

36. Intelligent people click on the link in order to render an informed comment.

[blue neen]

37. Intelligent people also know the proper forms of punctuation to use when posting a title.

Here's a pretty good explanation that I find helpful:

http://homeworktips.about.com/od/mlastyle/a/titles.htm

[Luminous Animal]

40. Oh lowered. Lizzie Poppet read the title of your OP as this...

Ralph Nader on Bush Presidency
He Is Comfortable with Bush’s Inferno

Because she did not click on the link, she, not only didn't realize it was an article written by Nader, but didn't know who "he" was.

That is, Lizzie Poppet thinks that NADER is comfortable with Bush's inferno.

I pointed out that she misread the title, despite the correct punctuation, and made an erroneous assumption.

[DerekG]

9. Imagine if Democrats had proven Nader wrong

You know, if they acted like a progressive opposition party.

[DevonRex]

11. Ya know what?

We don't have to cross every line some asshole like Nader draws in the sand with his toe. And we don't have to act like whatever you imagine we should be, either. Nor whatever fucking pipe dream somebody cooked up around the bongo circle during spring break.

[BklnDem75]

60. +1

[DevonRex]

99. Thank you. nt

[LWolf]

23. +1

[DinahMoeHum]

12. "I don't think I've ever met a bigger asshole" - Bob Weir/Grateful Dead

http://artists.refuseandresist.org/news14/news679.html

(snip)
Ralph Nader is the most arrogant and narcissistic guy I've ever met. I had a meeting with him in the early Nineties. I was jazzed going into the meeting, and I was disgusted leaving. I don't think I've ever met a bigger asshole. If he hadn't run in the last election, we wouldn't be in Iraq and thousands of people wouldn't have died needlessly.
(snip)

[Luminous Animal]

22. Funny that. I've spent more than just a few hours with him and I found him warm, witty, & generous.

On a one to one basis and also when communicating with his volunteers. He is also great with kids.

[betterdemsonly]

58. That assumes incorrectly that dlc dems are antiwar

when the record shows otherwise

Also Lieberman, Gore's running mate ran as an indepedent against the dem when he lost the primary to an antiwar candidate, so that type of dem was not only prowar but prowar to the point to disloyalty to the party base. All the major dlcers campaigned for him, including Obama and Clinton. It is beyond hypocritical to bitch about disloyalty from Nader after that. Nader was never a dem in the first place. Merely liberal.

[Politicalboi]

14. There was proof Gore won Florida

Blame those that didn't count ALL the ballots. Had they counted ALL the ballots, Gore would have won. Nadar didn't stop the count. It would have been better without him, but Gore lost to theft, not Nadar. The 2000 election was the first theft, the Pentagon next, and 9/11 after that. Stole our vote, our money, our freedom.

I don't care for Nadar, but IMO it was Bush/Cheney who got away with it. What we should have done was to disqualify Florida. Too many fuck ups, and the government of state is loaded with Bush cronies, and brother.

[pnwmom]

18. If 95000 voters hadn't voted for Nader, none of the smaller problems would have mattered.

Nader said it didn't matter -- Bush and Gore were Tweedle-dee and Tweedle-dum. So he helped out Bush -- to show that he could.

[Luminous Animal]

24. If 300,000 registered DEMOCRATIC Florida voters hadn't voted for Bush, none of the smaller

problems would have mattered.

Remove the beam from your own eye.

[pnwmom]

25. Most of those voters hadn't voted Democratic for decades. Many people change parties

but don't bother changing their registration.

[Luminous Animal]

26. So you say.

[pnwmom]

27. Apparently you never heard of "Reagan Democrats."

They voted for Reagan and, in the national elections anyway, never looked back. (Until recently, when some of the union members have started to vote for Democrats again.)

[Fumesucker]

28. So it was OK those Democrats voted for Reagan and Bush but not some others for Nader?

That doesn't seem terribly consistent.

[pnwmom]

32. They weren't Democrats and hadn't been for years. Also, they each only controlled

their own personal vote.

Nader, by insisting on a spot on the California ballot, though many friends and fellow progressives begged him not to run in the swing states, drew the votes of tens of thousands of other progressives.

[Fumesucker]

33. Then the "Democrats" who voted for Nader weren't Democrats either

Either parties own voters or they don't, you can't have it both ways.

Here's why Nader's claim of little difference between the parties is credible and why Gore lost the election.

Gore's hand picked 2000 VP running mate a keynote speaker at the 2008 RNC.

[pnwmom]

41. But the PROGRESSIVES who voted for Nader were progressives

who, when they threw their votes away on Nader, helped Bush win the election. And Nader openly acknowledged that and didn't care.

[Fumesucker]

43. Is Lieberman remotely "progressive"?

Remember he was pushing McCain and Snowsnookie in 2008, only 8 years since he co headed the Democratic ticket.

Gore is responsible for picking Lieberman, possible the worst VP candidate in US history, and hence Gore is responsible for making Nader's claims far more credible than they would have been otherwise.

It was Gore's election to lose and he let it get close enough to steal by picking that vile creature for his running mate.

I watched the 2000 VP debates, Lieberman spent more time agreeing with Cheney than disagreeing. Lieberman is simply a smarmier and more hypocritical version of Cheney.

Feel the Joementum.

[pnwmom]

45. Lieberman wasn't Gore's finest moment. But the country would have been far better off

if the progressives who voted for Nader had voted for the progressive who was actually electable.

[Fumesucker]

47. Gore terminally damaged his progressive credentials when he picked Liberman

Gore was trying to make it clear that he was no lefty, why blame progressive voters who took his actions at face value?

The country would be far better off if Gore had not tried to triangulate the right and the center against the left with all the grace of a blind drunk hippopotamus.

Like Truman said, when offered a choice between a fake Republican and a real one voters will pick the real one, Lieberman was undeniable a fake Republican and the voters decided they'd rather have the real thing than a fake Republican Droopy Dog.

As a moral choice I actually prefer Cheney to Lieberman, Cheney doesn't make any bones about being a first rate asshole, Lieberman is a first rate asshole who tries to disguise it with saccharine false piety, the very worst kind of hypocrite and a traitor to boot.

[pnwmom]

49. OF COURSE you preferred Cheney to Lieberman, even though Cheney was much worse.

Just like how Nader preferred Bush to Gore.

[Fumesucker]

65. I don't mean I prefer Cheney policy wise

I mean I have more respect for Cheney than for Lieberman, Cheney didn't show up at the 2008 DNC pimping Obama, the guy at least has some moral conviction even if I completely disagree with it.

Lieberman is a hollow shell, a Democratic VP candidate who a mere eight years later does a complete 180 and shows up on the Republican team, pimping the worst Republican slate since the Big Bang, zero moral compass whatsoever.

A wolf who is unabashedly a wolf is preferable to a wolf in sheep's clothing.

[Honeycombe8]

16. I never want to hear or read anything about that goofball again. This is the last...

and I think it has been the first...response by me to anything about this man, since his traitorous, arrogant actions.

[pnwmom]

17. I almost missed the part where he equates Bush and OBAMA.

Clearly, he hasn't learned anything since he helped Bush beat Gore.

[olddots]

19. Nader is a putz

can't blame him personally ,people around him probably said " Ralph you're presidential material here is some money "


he did some good in the early 60s for consumers - I wouldn't vote for him for city council in a town of 3 people -

[DonCoquixote]

20. so ralphie equates going to a library

to him condoning Bush, when every president gets one?

Sorry Ralph, I am in Florida, and I heard the talk radio celebrate how skillfully they played you and your tools to get enough votes. Not that you have ever returned ONE CENT of BLOOD MONEY Rush Limbaugh and his followers gave you.

[Fumesucker]

29. That might just be the most deceptively titled OP I've ever read on DU

[Coyotl]

39. Thanks. How could I resist?

[Cha]

31. nader's a disingenuous asshole complaining about bush when

he's the one whose campaigning in Florida helped enscounce him in there. Weasely little nitpicker except when it came to the big important thing. Spouting off his lies about there's no difference between bush and Gore. Too bad so many in Florida believed mr fuckhead.

nader: "look at me.. I'm so fucking pure"

[Fumesucker]

34. Hey, here's Gore's 2000 VP running mate

Last edited Sat Apr 20, 2013, 11:47 PM - Edit history (1)

Do you know where and when this picture was taken and what he was doing?

[betterdemsonly]

57. He is not a dem or a republican

most Americans aren't. Many people do dislike both parties for their corporate corruption and Gore is corporate.

[Cha]

59. Gore is a Global Climate Change Advocate for Environmental Reform.

[betterdemsonly]

61. Only after retiring from politics

When in office Gore refused to help ratify the Kyoto protocol. http://www.dissidentvoice.org/July06/Frank18.htm

He is a fair weather environmentalist, and did not support these things when he was in office.

[Cha]

62. Still a hellava lot better than bush and his crew.

Anyway it is what it is.

[betterdemsonly]

63. Someone who pays lipservice is more dishonest than someone

who honestly opposes such things. So it is better if you think dishonesty is better. Yes he is what he is, and if people don't want to vote for that it is the fault of the candidate not the voter or the persons opponents.

[Coyotl]

71. When in the V-P office, you are limited by the president's positions on issues!

[betterdemsonly]

80. Was the President a republican?

Was Gore not a dlcer, like the President he served?

[Coyotl]

85. Clinton was a Democrat, of course.

How old are you?

[betterdemsonly]

87. 46

n/t

[seabeyond]

35. all ego. nt

[Fumesucker]

38. You got that right

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

42. Gore would have got the votes of the Left if he had appealed to them instead of the 3rd Way/DLC.

Don't blame the voters if the candidate fails to get their votes.

[Coyotl]

44. That does not change the history of Nader as spoiler.

Which happens more often in politics. Clinton got elected twice thanks to Perot in the race. That made the Rs take over the right wing third party and drown it in the bathtub while paying for Nader's run.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

46. And, that doesn't change the fact that Gore lost the left in Florida.

Not because of Nader, but because he failed to appeal to them. You might as well say that Nader lost to Bush because he failed to win the middle that Gore stole from him

[Coyotl]

73. You can't change the fact that Gore won with Nader in the race.

But, if Nader had not been in the race the margin would have been enough to prevent the history of Bush stealiong the presidency.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

78. Not if he didn't get votes. But, he did because he attracted the left.

Which Gore didn't.

[betterdemsonly]

52. Spoiler is a sore loser concept

that is antidemocratic and assumes you are entitled to votes. You are not.

[Coyotl]

69. A spoiler in political races is someone who cannot win but can change the outcome

[grantcart]

48. Reminds me of Johnny Carsons' joke about the Menedez brothers.

The Mendez brother's have now provided the ultimate definition of Hutzpah.


They killed their parents and then beg the court for mercy because they are orphans.

[zeeland]

50. Quoting Cheney from The Showtime documentary,

"The World According to Dick Cheney"

"I don't lay awake nights thinking, 'Gee, what are they going to say about me now,'" Cheney says in voiceover. "I didn't worry about it a lot when I was doing it, and I thought the best way to get on with my life and my career was to do what I thought was right. I did what I did and it's all part of the public record, and I feel very good about it. If I had to do it over again, I'd do it in a minute."


Sounds as if they have their stories straight, but I'd be surprised to see either one leave the
Country and travel to Spain or any other country that has warrants out for their arrests
For crimes against humanity. They can throw all the money they have at their ghastly
memorials and the world knows the truth. The world will always know and "the public record"
will reflect the truth if we have anything to say about it, and we will.

[betterdemsonly]

51. Bush's policies are still in place because of dlc democrats

not Nader.

Vote's don't belong to anyone, in a democracy. You have to earn them.

[white_wolf]

56. Pathetic. Why don't you all start blaming Gore for being a DLC sellout?

Perhaps if he stood for something besides corporatism he would have won. Face it, when people are given a choice between a Republican-lite and a real Republican they will choose the real thing 9 times out of 10 and Gore.

[tabasco]

66. Nader equated Al Gore and AWOL Bush

FUCK RALPH NADER.

[byeya]

68. Gore won Florida, The Filthy Five of the SC stole it from him. Nader was irrelevant in this state.

[DCBob]

72. I have to admit I voted for this guy in 2000..

although it didnt matter in my state I still regret it. Eight years of Bush has changed this country and world probably forever.

[betterdemsonly]

86. it is 13 years later

The dems controlled both houses, and the Presidency for 2 years and haven't repaired any of the damage done. Maybe they support those policies too, so it wasn't just Bush that was responsible.

[DCBob]

96. It will take a long time to repair the damage of the Bush/Cheney regime..

especially when we have House controlled by Republicans intent on blocking anything President Obama wants to do.

[betterdemsonly]

97. like chained cpi?

Who will repair that damage?

[DCBob]

98. has that been passed and signed into law?

must have missed that.

[Octafish]

74. 5-4

SCROTUS had more to do with Bush's selection than Nader.

As a DUer once reminded me, Ralph, was participating in the democratic process legally.

[byeya]

95. An accurate, but unpopular, fact here it seems. Agree with you 100%

[Rex]

100. Gore won, the SCOTUS forced them to keep to a timeline

and awarded Bush the office. Much easier to blame a person then an entire institution supposedly in charge of justice.

[jessie04]

75. Thanks Ralph....now go away and dont come back...ever.

n-t

[CanSocDem]

77. Well said.

"The Presidential outlawry continues as a bipartisan dissolution of our constitutional system because the vast majority of “we the people” are not demanding our constitutionally sovereign power."


.