General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIf proven guilty do you think the bomber should get the death penalty?
I say he deserves it but I could not personally vote for it because I am against the death penalty. I have no sympathy for this guy whatsoever. I know as a Christian I am supposed to forgive but I feel no mercy towards this guy. I would only vote against the death penalty because I would not want his death on my soul.
He is an evil person and he must be punished. I say put him in jail for life if proven guilty and throw away the key.
hlthe2b
(101,730 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)It has zero deterrence, it's expensive to boot, and it is morally reprehensible.
That sad, likely, unless he becomes the most cooperative guy ever, and there are a series of extenuating circumstances, he will get it.
Riftaxe
(2,693 posts)have killed again? Surely they have been 100% deterred.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)It does not mean what you think it does
Riftaxe
(2,693 posts)I would say they are permanently discouraged beyond a doubt.
dookers
(61 posts)The bomber is probably headed to 23 hours a day of solitary confinement for the rest of life in some fed supermax.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADX_Florence#Domestic_terrorists
Dorian Gray
(13,469 posts)Living with himself after the deaths he is responsible for is far worse than the death penalty.
RC
(25,592 posts)Or admits to himself that he even did something wrong.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)It's not even negotiable.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)sarisataka
(18,220 posts)it would not restore life or limb to anyone
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)I think we could have learned a lot about psychology by continued study of Tim McVeigh and other people who somehow become driven by nutty ideas to do stuff like this.
Mutiny In Heaven
(550 posts)analytical cap for a moment, I would say that it would depend. What sort of pull did his brother have other him? What does he have to say for himself? If - assuming a Federal trial - we get a remorseless killer who relishes in the responsibility of his actions, he's going to be executed whether I like it or not.
If, on the other hand, he is found to be a weak boy in thrall to his brother, I would hope prison is the result. I know Lee Boyd Malvo was younger, but the power of elder influence can be every bit as immense as it was to people who ended up following David Koresh and Marshall Applewhite off the end of the Earth.
Control-Z
(15,681 posts)you say "that it would depend". The rest of your post makes perfect sense, though, and I agree with it.
Mutiny In Heaven
(550 posts)Last edited Sat Apr 20, 2013, 08:34 PM - Edit history (1)
I think it's clear what I was trying to say, but I did a good job of muddling my own opinion with how I view the legal possibilities.
Control-Z
(15,681 posts)Thanks for clearing that up.
Warpy
(110,913 posts)on how a passive, directionless teenager gets radicalized by anyone.
I've always been against the death penalty.
Bradical79
(4,490 posts)I'm not going to shed a tear over this guy for any reason, but I think there are too many flaws with the death penalty as punishment to justify its use.
Response to hrmjustin (Original post)
devilgrrl This message was self-deleted by its author.
avebury
(10,946 posts)Use of the death penalty makes us just as bad as the criminals. It is not a deterrent and there have been too many cases where death row inmates have later been found to be innocent. The legal system is too flawed to prevent innocent people from ending up on death row. Once the person is executed, it is too late to undo any injustices.
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2009/08/17/56525/scalia-actual-innocence/
Scalia says theres nothing unconstitutional about executing the innocent.
Almost two decades ago, Troy Anthony Davis was convicted of murder and sentenced to die. Since then, seven of the witnesses against him have recanted their testimony, and some have even implicated Sylvester Redd Coles, a witness who testified that Davis was the shooter. In light of the very real evidence that Davis could be innocent of the crime that placed him on death row, the Supreme Court today invoked a rarely used procedure giving Davis an opportunity to challenge his conviction. Joined by Justice Clarence Thomas in dissent, however, Justice Antonin Scalia criticized his colleagues for thinking that mere innocence is grounds to overturn a conviction:
This Court has never held that the Constitution forbids the execution of a convicted defendant who has had a full and fair trial but is later able to convince a habeas court that he is actually innocent. Quite to the contrary, we have repeatedly left that question unresolved, while expressing considerable doubt that any claim based on alleged actual innocence is constitutionally cognizable.
So in Justice Scalias world, the law has no problem with sending an innocent man to die. One wonders why we even bother to have a Constitution.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Scalia is such an icky person! I agree with you on the death penalty 100% but if this guy gets it he will deserve it. I just don't think the government should kill someone after saying killing is wrong.
Control-Z
(15,681 posts)No death penalty. It's barbaric. I feel like our country sinks a little lower every time an execution takes place.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)99Forever
(14,524 posts)Life without parole works just fine. Our government shouldn't be in the business of killing people.
tularetom
(23,664 posts)He deserves it but maybe not as much as the guy who owned the fertilizer plant in Texas and killed a shitload of his own employees because of his fucking greed.
silverweb
(16,402 posts)[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]Life in prison without possibility of parole, subject to study by scientists. Let the rest of his miserable life contribute to our understanding of criminality in all its permutations.
Also... not to change the subject, but for California DUers, you might be interested in what's happening regarding the California death penalty.
While many states are moving towards abolishing the death penalty (like the rest of the civilized world), California State Sen. Joel Anderson (R) has proposed legislation to bring back the gas chamber. Not only that, he wants it to work by suffocation rather than cyanide, displacing oxygen with nonlethal gas. Unbelievably, the California District Attorney's Association supports this bill (SB 779).
SAFE California has a petition opposing this huge step backwards in the administration of justice in our state, as well as a campaign of letters to district attorneys around the state. Please feel free to participate and share.
Oppose Gas Chamber Executions in California!
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Yes, I know him.
silverweb
(16,402 posts)[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]I didn't look up his district. He represents East County? They seem to elect the most obnoxious reTHUGs at all levels.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Now want the best part...he is a hard core Christian Right.
silverweb
(16,402 posts)[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]Just forgot to mention it. It goes along with the rest of his profile. Prototype for a stereotype. He's straight from the mold.
Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)I do not believe in the death penalty under any circumstances.
I am against the death penalty...can't be selective.
scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)atreides1
(16,046 posts)...isn't relevant, what does the law provide for in cases like this...what will the prosecutor seek as a punishment for the charges filed?
You say he deserves death but then you admit to your own inability to vote for it because it might have place some type of black mark against your soul...I won't tell you what that makes you, because it would be considered a personal attack
As for you being a "Christian" and yet admit to feeling no mercy toward this man, perhaps you might want to reconsider your idea of what a Christian is supposed to be!
union_maid
(3,502 posts)I see no purpose to the death penalty and lots of reasons why it should not exist.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I am of the mind that he was a follower. Not that it makes him any less guilty, he should be punished to the full extent of the law, but I think his brother was the truly evil one.
Control-Z
(15,681 posts)Would MA law even apply?
BainsBane
(53,003 posts)And there is a federal death penalty. I am personally opposed to the death penalty.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Zax2me
(2,515 posts)I think it would assist in deterring like-minded jihadists who are thinking of planting bombs around Americans including children.
Aristus
(66,096 posts)Texas would have the lowest violent-crime rate in the world.
Take a walk in downtown Houston at 2am some night, and then get back to me about the death penalty being a deterrent to crime.
And since you mentioned jihadists, don't forget: most of them want to die. They want to be martyrs to their cause. I see no reason why we should assist them in this regard.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)closed up for years in a small cell with nothing to do and in social isolation. And then shuffled down the hall in chains, in their little monkey suits, while people look on and he's given a shot. Not very dramatic or heroic, and since it's years after their "brave" act, they are all but forgotten by then.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Zorra
(27,670 posts)Aristus
(66,096 posts)When he dies, very, very old, alone and forgotten, I want him to ruminate before the darkeness falls on him forever; and I want him to realize that it wasn't worth it. And that he threw away any kind of meaningful life he might have had.
So not "to the death', but "to the pain".
It means we leave him in anguish, wallowing in freakish misery forever.
Jennicut
(25,415 posts)None in New England except NH. CT ended death penalty last year, though it is not retroactive. The two men that killed a mother and her two daughters in my hometown of Cheshire in a home invasion will still be put to death. I have mixed feelings about that. I would say that case was more horrific (rape, molestation, being burned to death, strangulation) then the bombings. Alhough a child died in Boston, he was not specifically targeted.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Phentex
(16,330 posts)i'd always say no.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)MotherPetrie
(3,145 posts)DinahMoeHum
(21,737 posts)would be a far worse and more effective punishment than death for a self-righteous fanatic who has no remorse or forgiveness of heart.
The death penalty is not harsh enough and that loser would welcome it as martyrdom.
madinmaryland
(64,920 posts)Cleita
(75,480 posts)To make it stick he needs to get a life sentence for every death he's responsible for and it needs to be consecutive and not concurrent. That way if he comes up for parole on one of his life sentences, the next one kicks in, or so they tell me anyway.
I have an acquaintance, who has a relative who killed 21 people that the police know about. He was sentenced to 21 life sentences. He's never getting out and has been in prison now for 35 years and he's in his seventies.
madinmaryland
(64,920 posts)hundreds of counts of assault and whatever they can come up with. I figured it went without saying that life without possibility of parole meant exactly that.
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)Cleita
(75,480 posts)He should be punished with many consecutive life sentences. Let's see about five is the count I have right now. That will make sure he never gets out on parole.
zeeland
(247 posts)has to say 50 years from now.
Uzair
(241 posts)Nor should anyone else convicted of any crime.
When are people gonna get off of this shit?
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Second I agree with your view on the death penalty but since it is an emotional issue you will never hear the end of it anytime soon.
treestar
(82,383 posts)due to age, and pending what may come into evidence. Even if one thinks the DP appropriate for an advanced society, someone this young should only be subjected to it if he is completely lacking in remorse and says he is glad he did it and would do it again.
GeorgeGist
(25,294 posts)MrSlayer
(22,143 posts)Treason is the only crime specifically mentioned in the Constitution. The penalty, according to the Constitution, is death.
Follow the Constitution.
TheKentuckian
(24,949 posts)"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court. The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted."
The penalty is spelled out as death, it says Congress declares the punishment, further, acts of terror are not by definition acts of treason.
MrSlayer
(22,143 posts)They are acts of war against your own country. Blowing people up is an act of war.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)It's a lot of things, but not treason
MrSlayer
(22,143 posts)It's an act of war against your own country. Treason.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Even if these guys had provable links to a terror group, they are still non state actors
Words have very specific meanings. This one does not mean what you want it to mean
It is terrorism, which can get you the DP in a federal court.
It is using WMDs which can do the same.
These guys did not raise in open insurrection, which is the other definition of treason under American law.
Likely you'll get that pound of flesh though
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)No reason he should continue to eat good food, wear clean clothes, watch tv, play cards, exercise, have friends, have a life of sorts.
But life in prison will do, if that's the way they go.
I'm sure they're looking into sending him to Guantanamo, if he has terrorist ties, although that would be controversial.
MrSlayer
(22,143 posts)He's a naturalized citizen.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Or you are telling me and millions of others we are not? Who knew?
bluedigger
(17,077 posts)You know you can't be President, right? That's really the only distinction.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)bluedigger
(17,077 posts)Just how far down the chain of succession is prohibited?
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Let's say. Secretary of State, as in Kissinger, he would automatically be passed over.
Beyond those three, sky is the limit.
Some folks (will never pass) have suggested removing those limitations since it takes otherwise qualified people off the ballot as it were. It was funny when Rs entertained that for five seconds due to Arnie
bluedigger
(17,077 posts)MrSlayer
(22,143 posts)The subject line says "he's not a non-citizen" which means that he is indeed a citizen.
Come on.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Permanent Resident Alien
An alien admitted to the United States as a lawful permanent resident. Permanent residents are also commonly referred to as immigrants; however, the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) broadly defines an immigrant as any alien in the United States, except one legally admitted under specific nonimmigrant categories (INA section 101(a)(15)). An illegal alien who entered the United States without inspection, for example, would be strictly defined as an immigrant under the INA but is not a permanent resident alien. Lawful permanent residents are legally accorded the privilege of residing permanently in the United States. They may be issued immigrant visas by the Department of State overseas or adjusted to permanent resident status by U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services in the United States.
http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.5af9bb95919f35e66f614176543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=9a1f95c4f635f010VgnVCM1000000ecd190aRCRD&vgnextchannel=b328194d3e88d010VgnVCM10000048f3d6a1RCRD
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)The younger one became a citizen on Sept 11, 2012
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)He beat the significant other.
This afternoon Barackobama (Dzu'er) and Chris Van Zandt came up with the possible motive. Due to that denial he could not box for the US in the Olympics, and for good reason did not want to represent Russia.
After he was denied his life seemed to go to hell.
Yes, I was reading the post as Van Zandt was offering the same
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)If you got a green card you need to remain squeaky clean if you plan on citizenship. I would not be posting here, or going to marches, or be a reporter if I still had a green card...it can be removed with no recourse whatsoever for any reason.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)MrSlayer
(22,143 posts)So, take that.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)It is more than just carrying out a heinous crime.
DainBramaged
(39,191 posts)This seems to suit you well
morningfog
(18,115 posts)DainBramaged
(39,191 posts)go find something you have a clue about instead of giving other people shit.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Maybe next time.
DainBramaged
(39,191 posts)Bye froggy
morningfog
(18,115 posts)If you did, you would agree that it is a hard case to make with the given circumstances. I am sorry you either can't be bothered to read a helpful link or are incapable of comprehending what you read.
ETA: I saw your big tough guy thread got hidden, lol. Rough night for the machismo, huh?
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)Treason is narrowly defined. Terrorism is a criminal act. In this instance, a criminal act which was specifically not aimed at overthrowing the US government, levying war against the US, et cetera. You're apparently ignorant of the Constitution.
MrSlayer
(22,143 posts)Bombing the country is an act of war. It's not like stealing a hat.
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)and bombing that targets a military or government office or installation. The latter would qualify as treason and "an act of war"; what happened in Boston does not. You have no idea what you're talking about.
s-cubed
(1,385 posts)Worried senior
(1,328 posts)I can see that some crimes are so horrendous that it's only human to want to see the villain dead but I still do not believe in the death penalty.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you. Friedrich Nietzsche
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)frogmarch
(12,145 posts)Junkpet
(40 posts)...and let's assume he's guilty because, frankly, there's really no question about it. Though I don't think there should be a possibility that he ever takes another free breath, I don't believe the death penalty should be used in this case. For one, assigning him to death has potential to elevate him to martyrdom in the eyes of his sympathizers. Rather than his death seen as a deterrent against future acts of terrorism, it may actually become a catalyst. Secondly, this boy is an extremely valuable asset. Primarily for the information that he has that directly relates to the Boston Marathon, he and his brother's radicalism, others involved and any other potential threats/cells that threaten us. Who knows, however, if there are other ways he may be used.
Personally I think the death penalty talk from the AG and other top level government bureaucrats is heavy right now so there is room for negotiation once the defending attorney gets involved. The need for us to know more about the details of this travesty should outweigh our bloodlust for revenge.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Junkpet
(40 posts)backscatter712
(26,355 posts)Last edited Sat Apr 20, 2013, 08:26 PM - Edit history (1)
Though you may have to bring in someone from Saudi Arabia to help with that.
Let the punishment fit the crime!
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)99Forever
(14,524 posts)What a wonderful human being you must be.
Riftaxe
(2,693 posts)The recidivism rate for terrorists who enjoy such slaughter is exactly 0 after being executed. The murder rate of people sentenced to life in prison is significantly higher.
ohiosmith
(24,262 posts)nobodyspecial
(2,286 posts)idwiyo
(5,113 posts)City Lights
(25,171 posts)La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)i think its immoral to kill people when humane options are available. this doesn't change because a person was a terrorist or some other random criterion
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)It makes no sense to kill to illustrate that killing is wrong.
Also too many innocents have been executed.
Life without parole is a bad enough sentence.
Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)AP/Boston Regional Intelligence Center
I'm making a guess that he was motivated in large part by a romanticized image of the heroic Chechen fighter - a folklore that he was likely raised on - and then led and shaped into this particular action by an older brother who he likely worshipped - He ended up doing something that he would have never otherwise dreamed of doing. Something I suspect he will regret for the rest of his life.
How else would you explain a 19 year-old boy who was captain of his high school wrestling team, who volunteered for community projects on a number of occasions, who everyone who knew him describes him as a really, really nice kid, who had lots of friends, who was reported to have always been upbeat and friendly, who appeared to everyone to be completely assimilated and Americanized and who no one - absolutely no one = recalls him ever, even once expressing any ill will whatsoever toward America, who seemed far, far more interested in sports and rap music than in politics or religions - just why, just why would someone like that get involved in something like this?
MADem
(135,425 posts)This is a recent picture:
WillyT
(72,631 posts)No.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)rehabiti
(22 posts)welcome to du
Carolina
(6,960 posts)zappaman
(20,605 posts)petronius
(26,581 posts)littlewolf
(3,813 posts)he will be in SHU (segregated housing unit), because if he was in Gen Pop
he would be dead. SHU gets out of their cell for 1 hour per day 45 minutes for
exercise and a 15 minute shower. at least at NC state level, not sure about Fed time. and NC state policy states they only have to have exercise 3 times per week.
but we do it daily because, if something came up and we were unable to provide
exercise 1 time, we still met policy.
let him sit and remember what it was like to be free, and how it feels to have
your life completely controlled by others, who really doesn't give a sh*t about you
or what you want.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)LiberalFighter
(50,504 posts)No.... too expensive.
Response to hrmjustin (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
LiberalFighter
(50,504 posts)Nine
(1,741 posts)I will not be celebrating that day, but I won't be shedding tears either. If I had it in my power, I would abolish the DP. But I don't have it in my power. I don't consider the DP absolutely immoral, but I do think society would be better without it. And if the death penalty is going to be used on anyone, it should certainly be used on this person.
DainBramaged
(39,191 posts)hear music again
smell flowers again
see a woman again
where it's hot or cold and nothing in between
Maybe that will give the families of the dead and injured some comfort.
But I have a feeling that feeling sorry for this turd is gaining momentum here and elsewhere, and it disgusts me.
Hell Hath No Fury
(16,327 posts)I do not believe in the DP -- it reeks of Old Testament vengeance. I think he needs to spend a very long time thinking about what he did, preferably with a photo of Martin Richard holding his "No more hurting people" sign in the cell with him. Hopefully he may one day come to a place where he can be part of the solution instead of the problem.
rehabiti
(22 posts)same idea