Younger brother killed older brother...

[TeeYiYi]

–During a shootout with police on
Thursday night, the older brother,
Tamerlan Tsarnaev, exited the vehicle he
was in and started walking down the
street, shooting at officers. He ran out of
ammunition when he was only five or ten
feet away from police. One officer then
tackles him, and he and two or three
others try to handcuff him.

–As they try to handcuff the older brother,
the younger brother comes barreling at
them in the vehicle. The officers dive out
of the way, and Dzhokar runs over his
brother, dragging him for a short distance.
Police think this is what killed him.

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2013/04/20/boston-manhunt-the-day-after/

TYY

[GeorgeGist]

1. Its CNN.

[HooptieWagon]

3. I've read it elsewhere that he ran over his brother.

[MichiganVote]

2. I know the religious mem is the current fav explanation

but I think the older brother was essentially a spree killer. Wouldn't surprise me if they found other skeletons in his closet.

[Zax2me]

6. They did find 'skeletons' in closet - video links to radical Islam

Preachings and family members confirming he was turning more radical in the name of Islam.

[Bucky]

19. Another skel: a close friend who was murdered by a slit throat (still unsolved)

Might be him or it might just indicate some of the dangerous circles Tamerlan was running in.
Or it might be a tragic coincidence.

[TeeYiYi]

4. Hopefully they have video...

...so they can make a dvd for the younger brother to watch every day in prison.

TYY

[former9thward]

35. He would be proud of that dvd.

Older brother probably told younger brother to make sure he was not taken alive.

[LisaL]

41. Somehow I doubt that.

[Ghost in the Machine]

72. Why doubt it? If they were on a jihad, do you thimk the nutjob would rather fail, get caught...

... and spend his life in prison, or die as a martyr for "the cause" and collect his 72 virgins in heaven??

I could be totally wrong, but then again, it could also explain his actions of exiting the vehicle and charging right at the cops with guns ablazin'. I don't know about you, but to me that sure sounds like the actions of someone who didn't want to be taken alive.

Ghost

[HiPointDem]

5. i bet that's a lie.

[LibertyLover]

8. Brian Williams on NBC

mentioned during the coverage Friday evening that the older brother had been run over by the younger during the firefight. FWIIW.

[HiPointDem]

16. what brian wms says means diddly to me.

[Bradical79]

25. I bet that's a lie

[HiPointDem]

31. you'd lose that bet. williams is a tool. literally.

[cali]

33. Why would the police lie about this?

Wait, don't tell me. I know. The police ran him over and they want to pin it on Dzhokhar.

[VanillaRhapsody]

47. Perhaps baby brother was trying TO detonate the explosives on the brothers body???

or another possibility is that younger brother was in an abusive relationship with older brother (by 5 yrs his senior) who has always been a sociopath and younger brother was scared to death of him. There have been many women who have been in such toxic relationships with their husbands and go along with anything he says (even to the point of harming others) because they have been bullied and beaten for so long....I happen to have seen a couple of sibling toxic relationships...no question this would be an extreme example...but it does happen.

[Honeycombe8]

50. I doubt that. Baby brother looked smugly happy after the bomb went off. nt

[VanillaRhapsody]

51. Based on what?

the one blurry image from a video of a moving object? Have you not known seen that distort a persons actual facial expression before?

[marions ghost]

53. yep

[Honeycombe8]

59. The pic of him looking smugly happy. Not someone who was coerced into doing something

he totally disagreed with and found aborrhent...blowing a man's legs off and such.

[VanillaRhapsody]

77. You mean the picture taken from a video? You'v not seen the distortion of facial expression that can

cause before now? One fraction of a second frame from a video doesn't adequately represent what was on this man's mind. Or are we amateur mind readers now too?

[VanillaRhapsody]

78. That could just as easily have been a grimace...

you do not know frame of mind from a blurry millisecond shot from a video..

[FarCenter]

7. Maybe younger brother wanted to keep older brother from triggering his explosives?

Explosives were found on the body of the older brother.

[elehhhhna]

11. hardly a good idea to prevent an explosion by running over the materiel

[FarCenter]

13. Most explosives aren't triggered by an ordinary mechnical blow or modest pressure of a tire, etc.

PETN, nitroglycerine, etc. are sensitive.

A good explosive doesn't go off unless you want it to.

[premium]

15. In Vietnam,

we used to use C-4 to heat our C-Rats, water, warm our hands.

[William Seger]

36. Yep

You could set it on fire or you could stomp on it -- just don't do both.

[Pelican]

75. Still a practice today...

Bedouins and some Afghans dig up old mines for the same reason...

[brooklynite]

58. Som in the middle of a firefight, the younger brother had the presence of mind to deactivate bombs..

...he had been throwing out the window a few minutes earlier?

[Electric Monk]

9. Picture of the corpse looks like a car drove over his face

Very graphic, not for the squeamish.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c0e_1366394274

[LisaL]

22. Agree. Face looks very dark red in colour.

[rightsideout]

28. Totally agree

You can trace the path the car's tire took by seeing how the hematoma tracks along the right side of his body and shoulder and the left side of his face and neck, like the car ran across him.

[fleur-de-lisa]

32. Well, that explains his face, but does anyone have an explanation for the gashes on his torso?

Doesn't look like they can be explained by gunshot wounds, crushing by vehicle or any explosive device he was carrying.

I don't recall that any law enforcement officials had medieval swords at the time. What gives?

[cali]

34. done by docs in hospital in an attempt to save his life is what I've heard.

[fleur-de-lisa]

37. Thanks. Because of cardiac arrest? . . .

Damn, where is Aristus when you need him?!?

[LisaL]

39. The gashes on his body are from a medical procedure.

He went into cardiac arrest and doctors were trying to save his life.

[TeeYiYi]

38. Thoracotomy incision...

...when they tried to restart his heart. Check out the betadine stains surrounding the incision.

TYY

[geomon666]

10. We won't know until the autopsy

That story doesn't jive with the postmortem photo though.

[lastlib]

12. add a vehicular manslaughter charge to the pile......

One more won't make any diff..........

[malaise]

14. Most reports said he ran over his brother's body

meaning he was already dead from gunshot wounds

[HiPointDem]

18. that would be my guess.

[TeeYiYi]

23. I've read reports...

...where he was still alive at the hospital and they tried to save him.

TYY

[LisaL]

24. Why would somebody be putting handcuffs on a dead body?

[Journeyman]

26. SOP. Everyone arrested is placed in handcuffs, breathing or not. . .

Would you want to be the policeman who didn't handcuff a dead perp only to find he wasn't and then got away (or worse)?

[LisaL]

40. He wasn't even dead when he arrived at the hospital.

Doctros tried to save his life.

[Journeyman]

44. Uh huh. But that has nothing to do with the question I answered . . .

No matter what his condition -- breathing or not -- he entered the ambulance handcuffed.

[LisaL]

46. Well, if he wasn't dead when he arrived at the hospital, then he sure as hell wasn't dead at the

scene.

[Journeyman]

48. And he was handcuffed. . .

Full circle now.

[Danascot]

30. Interview with ER Doc who attended the Tamerlan

Apparently he was still alive when brought in but died of cardiac arrest.

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/04/19/updates-on-aftermath-of-boston-marathon-explosions-2/?smid=tw-nytimes#the-doctor-who-treated-tamerlan-tsarnaev

[Barack_America]

42. Wow. A bedside thoracotomy. I've only seen that once.

It did not end well.

[Heddi]

56. Less than I think 1% ever do. THe one I saw recover

was a 21 year old girl going the wrong way at 70 mph on the interstate...drunk as hell. Hit another car that burst into flames (those folks got out alright).

Girl comes in and she starts going down fast. Lots of chest trauma from hitting the steering-wheel. The MD's pop her chest (I'm an RN in the ER) and she's in cardiac tamponade. The MD pulls out a clot the size of a liver from around her heart, we get a pulse back, sew her up and to the OR she goes for clean up and better sew up.

Few days later one of the MD's and another RN from the ER go upstairs to see how she's doing...she's under arrest and extubated. Does nothing but complain about how her chest hurts from the CPR and how we gave her a nasty ass scar b/c of the thoracotommy.

I'm like "you stupid little wench...you're SO LUCKY to be alive for a variety of reasons, not excluding the fact that less than 1% of thoracotomy pt's make it...and you're upset because of a scar? And your chest hurts? FUCK YOU"....what a turd. Nearly kills other people because of her stupidity and she's got a sad because she has a scar.

I hope that the many years that thoracotomy gave her will give her some perspective on 2nd chances as she gets older

[Paulie]

67. What a story!

Wow.

[winstars]

71. WOW x 1,000,000,000 Just another day in the ER??? Incredible story my friend... nt

[Barack_America]

76. If she were a nicer human being she probably wouldn't have survived.

Luck often favors the undeserving in these instances. Had an experience similar to yours with a young girl that in no way should have survived her heroin overdose with her brain intact. Hope she went on to actually use it, but I doubt it from the way she acted in the unit.

[Bucky]

17. How Cain and Abel-ish

[Bradical79]

20. I thought I heard he was shot first then run over

Was switching from Nbc to Cbs so I don't remember which network was reporting at the time. It wasn't clear if he was alive at the time. First ive heard of any tackle.

[rightsideout]

29. He was shot first, taken down by police, then ran over.

You can see the bullet wounds on the upper and middle part of his body and arms. The police fired at him and he fell. They ran over to him to keep him on the ground and handcuff him and that is when his younger brother ran over him with the car as he was trying to run down the police. They ducked out of the way but his brother was still on the ground and he got ran over.

The Washington Post had a good accounting of the events.

[marions ghost]

55. that makes sense

since it looks like we can just take our pick of any number of stories, I'll go with this one...

[onenote]

21. This is based on what the Watertown Police Chief told Blitzer

I am dubious that the Chief has all the facts, particularly the facts concerning the cause of death of the older brother. From his account, you wouldn't even know whether the older brother had been hit by any gunfire. (He indicates the older brother was exchanging gunfire with cops at a distance of 5-10 feet, ran out of ammo and was tackled and brought to the ground).

Given that initial reports from the hospital was that the older brother had a possible blast injury and multiple gunshot wounds, I'm going to await more information before buying the story that he was killed by being run over.

[TeeYiYi]

27. Photo of drag marks on the street...

TYY

[Bad Thoughts]

43. Who was he TRYING to run over?

If the policemen were covering the brother's body (dead or alive), perhaps he was trying to hurt the policemen, not the brother?

[LisaL]

45. I think he was just trying to get away from police.

So whoever was in his way.

[marions ghost]

54. that's my guess

he didn't intend to run over his brother

just trying to get away.

[dkf]

49. How this kid lives with himself I do not know.

I bet he wishes he were dead. We need to put him on suicide watch.

[TeeYiYi]

63. He doesn't...

I read today that the bullet wound in his neck was self inflicted. He supposedly put his gun in his mouth and fired, only to have the bullet go straight through and out his neck. That's why he can't talk...for now.

TYY

[dkf]

64. Wow.

[TeeYiYi]

65. Here's the link...

http://m.cbsnews.com/storysynopsis.rbml?&pageType=eveningNews&catid=57580608&feed_id=29&nb_splitPage=5

TYY

[dkf]

68. Double wow. I guess there's a correct technique to killing yourself by sticking a gun in your mouth

[FarCenter]

73. The Ernest Hemingway

[TeeYiYi]

74. Don't aim for your tonsils...

...or uvula.

TYY

[zeeland]

52. Is there not a possibility that

The older brother knew it was the end, told his younger brother to just get out of there
and he exited the vehicle with all intentions of committing suicide by cop? Anyone
walking toward police shooting, then running out of ammo, knows they are going
to die. They may have already said their goodbyes. We know nothing of the details.
The media cannot be depended on for the truth.

[Junkpet]

57. Maybe...

...the older brother was shot dead and the younger brother, in a panic, drove his car through the only out he thought he had...which just happened to be over his older brother's dead body. I don't think there's any point of speculating further when there's an obvious and simple explanation. I mean, what does any of it really matter except the facts?

[Quantess]

60. I agree with your assessment, but

people think it's great entertainment to speculate and dream up unsubstantiated scenarios woven from whole cloth.

[sabrina 1]

66. Except he was alive when he reached the hospital, although not in very good shape as he died shortly

afterwards. They might have had an agreement to not be taken alive, the younger brother might have been trying to hit the police, but they jumped out of the way, exposing his brother to the car. He might have been hoping to scare the cops, pick up his brother and take off.

There are a million possibilities even that the younger brother thought his brother was dead. In those seconds he probably wasn't thinking much other than not getting himself taken into custody.

But I doubt the OP is true. The older brother was probably wounded in the gun fight and the car going over him may have contributed to his death, but it's likely not the only factor.

[rehabiti]

61. dont care

i dont care

[Lex]

62. you care

enough to take the time to post in a thread about it

[WinkyDink]

69. You OUGHT to care.

[WinkyDink]

70. "Police think....." Not "An autopsy proved."

[KharmaTrain]

79. Fight Or Flight...

...one of the most basic responses. Methinks if you're in a major gunfight the adrenaline was flowing by the gallon...he sees his brother go down and looks to get the hell out of there whatever way he could. He probably didn't think about running over his brother...just finding the fastest way out of a bad situation.

For several hours throughout the night MSNBC ran this image:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-_djXMT7evkw/UXD8Avu--QI/AAAAAAAAeDk/2o33q0SJC1w/s400/Watertown+Shootout.jpg

It appears to be the elder Tsarnaev sprawled on the ground...not moving. At the time they assumed he had been taken into custody and when it was later announced that he was dead they stopped showing the video.

So many loose ends in this story that I expect we'll get better answers to in the days ahead...