I think what motivated Tamerlan could be relatively simple...

[Barack_America]

I think he had pretty big aspirations for himself; eldest child, athletically gifted, possibly headed for the Olympic games as a boxer. Perhaps he was never a nice man or a good man, but he appeared headed for success and was a source of pride for his parents. Then he decides to beat his girlfriend, gets arrested and his trajectory changes forever. Gone is his ability to become a US citizen and box for the US in the Olympics. Now he can only compete for Russia, and he reportedly had no interest in representing that country (understandably so, for that matter). Perhaps his resentment that he cannot box for Chechnya grows. Perhaps his ability to succeed in something other than boxing fails. His anger about Chechnya grows, and he's surrounded by Americans who have all but forgotten about the conflict, if they had ever cared at all. Perhaps he starts to think about making people care. He starts to read things on the internet, and perhaps he starts to talk about those ideas to his family. He plans a trip to Russia, possibly thinking of contacting some of these individuals. Alarmed, his family contacts Russian officials, but they have no real proof. The FBI finds nothing significant either. The concerns are dismissed. Tamerlan travels to Russia and finally makes contact with a group who stokes his ego about how important to the Chechen cause he could be. He comes back to the US with a plan and who else exists in his life to help him carry it out other than Dzhokhar. That's my theory anyway, thanks for reading it.

[Cleita]

1. It's plausible, but since he's dead we will never know. Let's hope Dzhokhar survives

to fill in the blanks and maybe he can tell us what was going through both their heads.

[snappyturtle]

2. Could very well be. Makes sense to me. nt

[mainstreetonce]

3. It is an excellent theory, but it doesn't matter that much because he is dead.

We have to know how younger brother was linked to terrorism in a way that stands up in court up in court.

It is not going to be easy.

[Barack_America]

5. It matters because we need to prevent others from following the same path...

...or at least be able to detect if they are.

[bluemarkers]

39. or make it harder

for people to kill and maim others no matter their weapon of choice

[leveymg]

4. Where did you read the family contacted the Russians first? Thnx

Your analysis makes sense on a personal psychological level. I still think there are other motives, players and forces behind this.

[Barack_America]

8. That's just also my theory.

I think that if Russian officials had actually detected some sort of activity (i.e. internet activity), the FBI also would have discovered that. That Russian officials requested an investigation, nothing was found and they then dropped it, suggests to me that someone close to Tamerlan may have voiced their concerns based on conversations with him.

[leveymg]

16. There's more - The mother claims Tamarlan was a US asset. Dzhokhar was outraged about Syria.

The evidence is beginning to look more and more like this was politically motivated with an international element to it. Perhaps, anger and frustration at the United States for not doing more to help the Jihadis trying to overthrow the Russian supported Syrian regime.

Family of Boston bombing suspects fled oppression
Apr 20, 2013

Headline News Top Stories Anzor Tsaraev, Anzor Tsarnaev, FBI, Kyrgyzstan No comments

(CBS News) http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57580543/family-of-boston-bombing-suspects-fled-oppression/
Reposted at: http://breakingnewspinboard.com/family-of-boston-bombing-suspects-fled-oppression/

[ . . .]

Zubeidat Tsarnaeva also claimed her sons couldn’t have done it because the older one had been under surveillance.

“He was controlled by the FBI, like, for five years,” she said. “They knew what my son was doing.”
In this image taken from a mobile phone video, the father of USA Boston bomb suspects, Anzor Tsaraev reacts as he talks to the media about his sons, in his home in the Russian city of Makhachkala, Friday April 19, 2013. One son is now dead, and one son Dzhokhar Tsaraev is still at large on Friday suspected in Monday's deadly Boston Marathon bombing which stunned friends who have pleaded for the surviving brother, described as bright and outgoing young man, to turn himself in and not hurt anyone.

In this image taken from a mobile phone video, Anzor Tsaraev reacts as he talks to the media about his sons.

/ AP Photo

At his home in Dagestan on the Caspian Sea, the suspects’ father, Anzor Tsarnaev, said the charges were ridiculous.

“We never even had weapons in the family,” he said. “We escaped oppression, and now look what’s happened. One of my sons is dead and the police are hunting the other.”

The oppression he’s talking about came during one of the cruelest wars in modern history: the Chechen war in the 1990s, which pitted a ruthless Russian army against Chechen independence fighters.

It forced thousands of terrified civilians to flee, including the Tsarnaev family. Their first stop was the neighboring republic of Kyrgyzstan, where Tamerlan was born in 1986.

Then they moved again, to Dagestan, and Dzhokhar came along in 1993.

Several years after that, the family emigrated to America.

Boston suspects’ father calls fugitive son a “true angel”
FBI interviewed dead Boston bombing suspect years ago
Complete Coverage: Boston Marathon Bombings

To their friends, the boys were just normal American kids, though they did keep links to their Chechen and Muslim past.

Tamerlan, the oldest, started a YouTube profile he called “Islam,” and about two years ago he began to talk more openly about religion.

Nineteen-year-old Dzhokhar had a page on the Russian social networking site Vkontakte, where he, like most teenagers, posted light-hearted cell phone videos. More recently, he posted a montage of images from the civil war in Syria.

[librechik]

29. thanks

sadly, I'm inclined to believe her

[leveymg]

32. If this is, indeed, Syria Regime Change Blowback, I would not be the least bit surprised.

I've been saying for almost two years that it was just a matter of time before the decision to aid the Saudi-backed Sunni opposition blew back into our faces in some terrible way.

[librechik]

33. yikes--what a mess!

[John2]

35. It is a very logical theory as opposed

he was sent here to cause Jihad. Younger kid brothers sometimes look up to older siblings and form close relations with them. People should not count that out.

The older brother could have just become more concerned about World events and decided to act upon his own concerns. There are people in this country that are aggressively trying to influence U.S. Policy, because the U.S. is a super power with a lot of influences, domestically and foreign, this includes militarily. This is a leap, but there are groups in this country and in Syria upset we have not openly entered the War there on a certain side, because they see it as fighting oppression and for Democracy. The majority of those groups are Sunni. Right now, Public opinion in the U.S. is tired of Foreign Wars but another 9\11 could get them on a knee jerk reaction again. That could also be a motive if individuals are really concerned about their causes and disappointed with the U.S.

[emulatorloo]

41. His mother lacks credibility as far as I am concerned.

Does not appear to be playing with a full deck.

[DirkGently]

6. People seldom commit violence for purely ideological reasons.

Violence requires rage. Rage is personal. I think the way most radicalization works is that someone with existing anger or frustration is given a theoretical framework in which it makes sense to act out.

With the younger brother you wonder if he was that angry as well, or whether he was helping the only family member he was in contact with, and trying out a "rebellious" worldview the way college freshmen try out Objectivism or the Hari Krishnas. I wonder if he had a full appreciation of the difference between contemplating a radical worldview in theory, and actually becoming a random mass murderer.

[Barack_America]

11. Dzhokhar was essentially abandoned in this country with his brother...

...whom everyone (including their father in an interview) seems to consider a "bad influence" on the kid. It has been widely reported that Dzhokhar idolized his brother, and he doesn't seem to have been a very strong-willed individual.

[leveymg]

23. The younger brother clearly wasn't a hardened Jihadi - he would have killed himself.

Quite capable of killing others, however.

I agree with your personal analysis.

[whathehell]

40. Correct. He needed no "political" reason to beat up his girlfriend, I'd guess.

Such a nice young man.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Van Zandt agree with you

Right now on the teevee machine.

[Barack_America]

9. Sweet. Sounds like I might have a backup career.

Always useful in this economy.

[Anansi1171]

10. I think you bring a lot of insight to the fundamental question of Tamerlan's motivations.

The question that now sits before us is what happened during his seven-month trip to Russia in 2012. That now becomes crucial. If he linked-up with others who helped further radicalize him, plan and train for this monstrous endeavor then that fits a well-worn pattern we have seen before.

Again, can we as a society offer meaningful paths to self-development to young males in their late teens and twenty's who are struggling and otherwise lost. But that's one side. His Uncle was right in many respects; whatever his set-backs, its a shame he could not ultimately accept some responsibility for those that and that he saw him self as a victim needing to be avenged.

Why can't all these counter-terrorism expects work more diligently on such essential and preventive questions?

[Barack_America]

12. It seems there are a lot of family members in Russia who might be able to shed light on that.

Perhaps even his parents if it becomes apparent that cooperating is the best chance of saving their younger son.

[patricia92243]

13. He probably hated the American system that got him in trouble and ruined

his future over nothing worse than beating a lowly woman. (sarcasm)

As he said - he didn't understand Americans.

[marlakay]

24. Don't they consider your arms weapons when you are a boxer? nt

[malaise]

14. Maybe he got hit in the head once too much

with that boxing.
I find nothing suspicious about his traveling to Russia or the state where his parents reside.

[Barack_America]

15. I wondered about that too.

I've wondered how thorough his autopsy might be, if you catch my drift. I just didn't want it to seem like I was dismissing his responsibility in this.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. From the death photo

Way too much facial damage...leading to way too much recent brain damage.

So don't expect the autopsy to be good for that

[Barack_America]

20. Oh. I couldn't bring myself to look. nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. Way too graphic

It should not have been leaked to be honest

[Spitfire of ATJ]

27. It certainly showed proximity to a bomb.

[Heddi]

46. they will be able to tell if he had chronic head injury

it's called 'acute on chronic' head bleed. This is common knowledge for anyone who works in emergency medicine. it's one of the ways long standing child abuse can be diagnosed. Acute on chronic subdural hematomas.

Surely you'd know this, having worked so long in emergency medicine yourself, right???

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. Yeah, take a good look at the photo

A good forensics officer might be able to tell, but serious, take a good look.

The hematoma is ...quite frankly, epic

[Barack_America]

49. Actually, molecular diagnostics could probably still make a diagnosis.

Old trauma looks different. But I still doubt the investigation will go down that road.

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. True, but most coroner offices are not that fancy

Though quantico probably has them. I wish (I agree with you, they won't go there) they did though.

[Heddi]

56. no, most coroner/medical examiners

are that 'fancy'. it's basic autopsying. Or do you have years experience in post-mortem forensics, too?

[nadinbrzezinski]

58. Good bye, keep at it

Never claimed that, you did.

[Heddi]

59. you sure do reply a lot

to people you supposedly have on ignore (for the record you told me a year ago you put me on ignore)

the function only works if you actually USE it

[Heddi]

51. I did see the pictures

and I've seen real life (and real dead) people who have had much worse and much more devastating injuries and as long as gray matter is in place, you can tell chronic and acute head bleeds. Drs do it all the time.

Again, I'm amazed you're arguing this given your extensive history as an emergency medical practitioner. This is first-day orientation stuff

I mean, you *do* have experience working in emergency medicine, right? Because someone who does would know this stuff like old hat....

[nadinbrzezinski]

53. I do have experience, ten years of it

Have a good long fracking day.

[Heddi]

55. the you should be well versed

in the concept of acute-on-chronic head bleeds and their ability, even post mortem, to diagnose frequent falls/strokes in the elderly, long standing abuse, etc

[nadinbrzezinski]

57. Bye, bye

Welcome to the ignore list, teach.

Good bye, have fun with the bullies and gun nuts.

[Heddi]

60. bye!

I didn't know that correcting bad information is 'bullying' but I guess it is to you. Have fun in the DU you've created where the only posts you see are your own

[Kali]

62. hell, just asking a question is bullying to that one

much less having the audacity to correct one of her pronouncements.

[zappaman]

68. Thank you for bringing real information to this thread

as opposed to blather by condescending know-it-alls.

[OhioChick]

64. +1000 n/t

[DallasNE]

61. I Had That Same Thought

But on reflection the behavior didn't seem consistent with such a head injury. He stayed in Russia for two months and that stay prompted authorities over there to ask this country about background information on him. That should have been more of a red flag than it turned out to be even though he was on some kind of FBI watch list. Lastly, how did they get their guns -- through a private seller at a gun show or the internet? We have a cop shot dead so it is material to this case.

[bluedigger]

17. I think he resented the US for his own problems as well.

Once he lost his chance for citizenship, the US became (in his mind) the root cause of all his problems. His religious radicalization was just a rationalization for his actions, not a cause. He then took advantage of his brother's emotional and probable economic dependency on him to co-opt him in his plans.

[Barack_America]

19. Definitely. Sort of a "how dare you reject me?" sentiment.

And perhaps he had a point. Plenty of native American assholes with US citizenship. And I think we can all point to problems with our society. Maybe he didn't feel responsible for beating his girlfriend, and, considering there wasn't a trial, maybe he didn't.

[malaise]

65. Not just that - he was hoping to represent the US at the Olympics

in boxing.

[reformist2]

21. Things seemed to start getting crazy for him after the murder of his 'best friend' Brendan Mess.

[freshwest]

25. Still don't see that as a reason - but it may have seemed logical to him. They're not the same thing

But to look in the eyes of the man you intend to kill as he did with Jeff Bauman - and to know it'd kill people from all over the world as the blast killed the young lady from China - wait...

It's impossible for me. I can't put this together. I would not kill strangers to satisfy my own feelings. I guess this is why these events are so terrifying.

[reformist2]

31. I'm actually entertaining the idea Tamerlan was involved somehow.

If that's true, it makes his spiraling descent into madness a lot more understandable.

[freshwest]

37. Seeing chaos often leads to a desire for authoritarianism and absolutism to make the crazy go away.

Last edited Sat Apr 20, 2013, 03:45 PM - Edit history (1)

Supposedly that was what drove Johnny Jihad to get involved in extremism by reports at the time. His wealthy family was going in a million directions. He had no authority figure so he fell in with the crowds who call some religious zealots father or brother or whatever they need to fill the gap.

There is an article here that explains a lot about both men, posted on another thread, years of their lives and connections. I appears the younger is not so innocent as first though, that he was putting on a facade.

Tamerlan was being denied full citizenship and his boxing career because he assaulted his girlfriend. Then he sees that his best friend's murder was left unresolved, apparently a drug revenge case. He may have wanted justice and wondering why he was punished when the killers of his friend got away with murder, or seems to.

Life is not fair, you either sit in the red hot hatred of that fact or go on to your next chance. He may have felt he was being denied his, but all he had to do was give it time. Some reports said he thought he behaved as if he was better than everyone else, perhaps felt he shouldn't have to be treated like everyone else which seems common among those impatience and lack of hard work. They expect instant results simply because they demand it which leads to quick anger and extremism.

For some, they can't make what they see as wrong work in their head and explodes. Others get by with some kind of faith. God's Will, needing to pray more, start over or whatever path, peaceful or not they decide to 'make things right.'

We walk through our lives being constantly challenged by the enigma of human behavior and striving to survive. I think this guy took a wrong turn and then justified himself all along the way.

The world is not B & W, although viewing it that way is a great way to give our minds rest. Trying to make it B & W always ends up worse than letting it be.

[heaven05]

26. hopefully

the younger brother will clear a lot up. Thank god they didn't kill him.

[Zorra]

28. Every twisted loser who blows up kids has their own brand of bad potty training.

Both of these losers hated LGBT and women, and had a serious lack of conscience.

"But they seemed like such a nice boys, I can't believe that they did this!"

[John2]

42. No, where do you

get this stuff? Every thing that I have heard, the younger kid had a lot of friends including females. He even had a girl friend and one now claims she had a crush on him. That is not a profile of a boy that was a loser with women. You sure you are not jealous or just have something against macho males.

[whathehell]

43. +10 n/t

[octothorpe]

30. That's similar to what I've been thinking...

His life wasn't working out as he wanted for various reasons (some his fault, some not), and he turned to something to make him feel relevant.

[jonthebru]

34. Who cares, he is dead.

I would rather know why water is wet.

[War Horse]

36. As far as pure speculation goes

this is probably the most plausible I've read thus far

[fleur-de-lisa]

38. Spot on . . . I agree wholeheartedly!

Your hypothesis, plus the fact that he was just a heartless asshole!

[B2G]

44. How does all of this not make it terrorism?

Is that what you're saying? I'm not sure I understand your point.

[Barack_America]

45. Of course it's terrorism. Even terrorism has a root cause.

One that we should understand so we can either prevent or detect others headed down this path. That is my point.

[B2G]

50. Got it. I just think some things can't be prevented

No terrorist outreach program is gonna stop this kind of thing. I honestly think they're beyond reaching. In the case of the terrorist, they are mentally controlled...by religion, ideology, self identification to a group...much like being in a cult.

Do you know how hard it is to de-program a serious cult member? It's very tough.

[iandhr]

47. I think that...

... we should not speculate with out facts.

[DallasNE]

54. Rather Than A Source Of Pride For His Parents

I think he probably had a troubled relationship with his parents and they parted ways with him deciding to stay in America. This could have caused him to go into a funk where everybody else was blamed causing him to write that he had no friends in America and that he didn't understand them. The problem was that he didn't understand himself. He was fairly strict with his religion so he didn't smoke or drink even though his beliefs were secular. His younger brother was everything he wasn't. He was outgoing and popular, even smoked and drank. This was a further source for a seething conversion which lead him to return to Russia for a couple of months where he learned how to select targets, build bombs and recruit his brother that look up to him. A toxic mix for sure. Missing is why his younger brother bought into the transformation that so consumed his older brother and allowed him to become part of this mix since he showed no signs of the paranoia his older brother had become consumed by.

[HooptieWagon]

63. Thats possibly a factor.

I would put it in a more general sense...his life wasn't shaping up to be what his ego had projected, so he started casting blame elsewhere.

[MzShellG]

66. There is no excuse for terrorist behavior......

No sympathy from me.

[Barack_America]

67. Excuse? Sympathy? Try "motive". nt