I hate to rain on people's parade but....

[gopiscrap]

While yes, I abhor the marathon bombings and the killing and injuring of so many....what struck me throughout the day is what a police state we live in. Don't kid yourself..yes, the cops were after somebody we wanted off the the streets, but most of the time all that police power is used insiduosly againt the common person in sneaky ways we don't even realize! So rejoice that that the bombers have been caught, but also realize with a sense of somberness just what this nation has turned into!!! A POLICE STATE!!!

[Dreamer Tatum]

1. If we lived in a police state

None of this would have happened in the first place, genius.

[gopiscrap]

4. Really?

Then why does this stuff hapen in so many other police states?

[Dreamer Tatum]

6. Because you haven't the slightest idea what a police state is?

[kelliekat44]

115. And none of this would have become known to us. nt

[ellie]

145. I have to saw that the openness

of the investigation was interesting. It was almost as if the public could "play along" with the police in finding the guys.

[brooklynite]

122. You know, the first thing a Police State does...

...is shut down communications so you can't complain about being in a Police State.

See the problem?

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

126. Or, if we really lived in a police state

people could not go on an Internet forum and post such a statement..........

[morningfog]

143. That is fucking stupid.

[Skittles]

2. oh stop already

put the pipe down

[William769]

3. Seriousley?

I don't think you really understand what a "POLICE STATE" is.

[gopiscrap]

8. I lived in East Germany

when it was East Germany...and that is what we are becoming with all these police agencies and cops

[William769]

9. Still a major fail and you should know it.

[Dreamer Tatum]

10. I call bullshit nt

[Control-Z]

26. Perhaps you are living with

PTSD or something that makes you believe what you're saying? The bombers' mother insists the FBI was controlling her son. Just like they used to do in the Soviet Union.

[Crabby Appleton]

32. Bullshit nt

[grantcart]

38. I have spent extended time in 'police states' and no one who has

would ever use that term for what we have.

[madokie]

103. Spot on

I'd much rather live with the police we have as to live without the police.

[avebury]

123. The process does have to start somewhere. nt

[moondust]

62. Really?

Did you happen to know these guys?


August 22, 1961: Two East German workers put pieces of broken glass on the top of a 15 feet high wall to prevent East Berliners from escaping, in front of a church on Bernauer Street.

Unfortunately, as private citizens in the U.S. continue to form hate groups/militias and stockpile increasingly lethal weaponry, in addition to this "age of terror," authorities cannot realistically allow themselves to become outgunned or underprotected. I, too, wish it were otherwise. In some cases there is probably some overkill but who's to say when?

[treestar]

111. Then you are really being dumb

Then you would know there would be no discussions of Miranda rights. No trials, no opportunity to challenge the police actions, as this kid's lawyers will get the chance to do that.

And no they don't close down the city over every petty criminal.

And it was voluntary. No one wanted him to kill someone else, and there was evidence he would have.

[avebury]

124. We might want to consider that every Police State had to

start somewhere, someplace, or with some incident. Just an observation.

[longship]

5. .

[sarisataka]

7. Police state...

[Fumesucker]

15. Well it certainly doesn't mean having the highest incarceration rate on the fucking planet n/t

[William769]

20. No incarceration needed.

Just throw up a iron curtain & all are incarcerated. But I'm pretty sure you already knew that.

[Fumesucker]

24. Just because there are worse police states does not mean America isn't headed in that direction

And a monstrous incarceration rate in "the land of the free" is a telling indicator of the direction we are indeed headed in.

[William769]

28. As someone who is retired from law enforcement we will just have to agree to disagree. nt

[Fumesucker]

34. At the current rate of incarceration one in three black males will go to prison in their lifetime

That's far worse than the incarceration rate for black males in South Africa under Apartheid.

Do you wish to argue that SA under Apartheid was not a police state as far as blacks were concerned?

[William769]

40. Now your injecting race into the equation.

I stand by my above comment.

[Fumesucker]

45. It was a simple and straightforward question

Why the dodge?

I'm sure you know about the lecture black parents in America tell their kids about how to act around police.

[William769]

47. And it was a simple & straight forward answer.

You may not like it but thats not my problem.

[Fumesucker]

63. When you are worse than SA under Apartheid there's a large problem

That you don't wish to admit there's a problem is blatantly obvious else you would not be evading my question.

[malaise]

99. Are you serious?

Where did he inject race?

[newmember]

42. Would you say no knock warrants are over used for drug offenses?

With too many innocent people being hurt or killed?

[William769]

43. I can only speak of what I did.

I was F.H.P. (not really warrants) & cross trained FL D.O.C. (We didn't need warrants).

[newmember]

48. But you must have read about the many cases

where people were subjected to harsh treatment , innocents hurt or killed
during the raids. , wrong address etc.......

You must have an opinion about it?

[William769]

52. I do have an opinion

I see both sides of that coin and this is not the time nor the place to discuss it.

I cannot be baited.

[cui bono]

95. Why is this not the time nor place to discuss it? n/t

[gopiscrap]

131. thank you, I agree

[midnight]

22. You do have a excellent point there...

[sarisataka]

25. It doesn't...

a high incarceration rate means we have a punishment oriented legal system. It does not automatically follow that we have a police state

[Fumesucker]

36. The *most* "punishment oriented" legal system on the fucking planet and getting worse by the day

Of course I suppose you think that's a good thing.

[sarisataka]

41. Things we do not have:

caneing
public executions
legal maiming of criminals

I do not believe we are the *most* punishment oriented legal system.

I would much rather see a shift to a rehabilitation oriented system. Even better would be a crime prevention based system. I don't hold out hope for that; you can show how many criminals you lock up but cannot give a nifty stat of crimes that never occurred for the money spent.

[Fumesucker]

65. I actually would be in favor of public executions if we have to have executions

That which you are not ashamed of you don't hide.

We just maim people's minds with years and even decades of solitary confinement, I guess that's so much more humane than maiming bodies.

And in terms of sheer numbers we are indeed the most punishment oriented legal system on the planet by a substantial margin.

[sarisataka]

67. I am in agreement

if executions were public, much more of the public would lose their stomach for executions. (Literally and figuratively)

Our belief that simply locking away those who have transgressed society's norm will correct their behavior is quite ridiculous. Too many have forgotten the precept of let the punishment fit the crime.

[MineralMan]

110. What you're saying does not align itself with history.

Historically, executions were public, even in the US. They were popular events, attended by large numbers of the public. There is no correlation between public executions and laws against executions. We are a bloodthirsty species, overall.

[sarisataka]

136. That was then

I believe modern folks would not find them so entertaining,. Just an opinion, I could be wrong

[MineralMan]

137. I'm not sure about that. I doubt that human psychology

has changed all that much. Public hangings are not that ancient a practice, even in the US. While not everyone is eager to attend such an event, enough would be to make such public executions popular. If they were televised, the audience would be in the millions, I'm sure. I would not be in that audience, though. I oppose all criminal executions on principle, and have all of my adult life.

[sarisataka]

138. You have a valid point

PPV executions would be some of the most watched events I fear. If viewing had to be done in person the appeal would be less. Modern society prefers a layer of insulation when viewing actual death, whether electronic or after the mortician gives the deceased the illusion of sleep. Even then many are very squeamish and want assurance the video is not too graphic.

I agree, I do not like the cost of life long incarcerations but executions are not an acceptable alternative. It is something barbaric which we should be able to put behind us.

[HiPointDem]

66. "crimes that never occurred for the money spent" -- balance that with crimes committed by

those who went to jail for minor drug offenses and came out hardened & unable to get decent jobs because they had records...

and those whose future employment was cut off for felony drug charges, 'sex offender' lifetime commitment...

[sarisataka]

68. What is so clear

to most of us here is lost on others. They do not see (or worse do not care and wish to support) that the current system encourages recidivism more than deterring it

[bluedigger]

55. Punishment oriented or profit oriented?

[sarisataka]

59. Lately

the two go hand in hand

[bluedigger]

61. There is always profit for someone, but punishment is applied with greater discretion.

[Hekate]

91. Saristaka: Yes

[treestar]

114. +1

That is the biggest disconnect and abuse of logic on the board this morning.

The high rate is likely due to the drug laws, too. Does not mean they did not get a hearing and a right to counsel, etc. And there are tons of Fourth Amendment cases challenging search and seizure, some of which defendants prevailed on and were released. The very fact one is allowed to argue to the government and courts on the actions of the police means we cannot possible be a "police state."

[treestar]

112. That is because of the laws we have

We may have too many laws and use incarceration too much, but that does not mean the people there are not there pursuant to a conviction or plea entered into by use of the legal system.

[Gravitycollapse]

16. Perfection.

[Cha]

56. Per-Fect.

[freshwest]

72. No spoilers!

[Cha]

82. ..

Inconceivable!

[bhikkhu]

11. The police did their job

I think everyone wishes we didn't need them to, but this is why we have police, and this is just the sort of thing most of that gear is for. In a more perfect world, it would all just gather dust in storage...

[aquart]

12. If you think this is a police state, you've never lived in one.

In a police state if a cop tells you to stop, you lose control of your bowels from fear. Done that lately?

Didn't think so.

What happened in Boston is GOVERNMENT DOING THE JOB WE PAY IT TO DO.

So look again.

[Fumesucker]

18. Here they don't even bother to tell you to stop

[newmember]

58. A pic of a Boston street earlier today

[rightsideout]

74. The closest I've seen to that photo in a neighborhood is when I played with my GI Joes

[newmember]

81. Blows your mind to see this in a street in America

machine guns , armored vehicles by police.

The days of beat cops are long gone.

[FarCenter]

98. Most of what you see is defensive for their own protection

Armored vehicles, helmets, bullet-proof jackets, combat boots, etc. protect the police from injury.

There are no machine guns in the picture. I can't recall seeing any machine guns in coverage of Boston.

[BlueStreak]

19. I think you might want to ask a brother or two about that.

[Fumesucker]

39. It's easy to spot those who have never been profiled by the cops, isn't it? n/t

[BlueStreak]

44. I haven't been profiled, but I know there is more than one America

I'm white bread, middle class, never do anything too risky. I'm not the type that shows up on profiles.

But I have plenty of friends who do. And anybody who doesn't think that is a reality in America just doesn't know what they are talking about.

Maybe I wouldn't go as far as calling this a "police state", as that is a loaded phrase that is associated with some regimes that are more authoritarian than our jingoistic America of 2013. But there is enough of that happening to make it a fair question whether we are on our way down a very slippery slope.

[freshwest]

80. Yes, publicly funded services are an indication of a social democracy. Fascist police states, no.

[nolabear]

13. All right. I'll listen. Tell me what a police state is, and why America is one.

But the convincing is yours to do.

[Nine]

108. Particularly as it applies to this case.

I don't know whether this is about the "shelter in place" or the Miranda thing, which is already being discussed in multiple other threads, or something else. I'm listening too, but so far poster hasn't shed much light, has he?

[gopiscrap]

132. All of it specially the massive amount of "police" type

individuals we have to most particularly, the Miranda issue!

[Narkos]

14. Seriously, STFU

[zaireeka]

17. Does your mail get forwarded OK from Derpville?

[newmember]

21. Police State ? no

A show of force by the state and Federal government within our borders.......you betcha

[Lex]

23. Why do you stay?

[gopiscrap]

27. I am an American Citizen

took the test to pass and EARN citizenship not like dumbass native born folks who usually don't know shit about the constitution...went to law school also...Became a citizen when US was a much better place...and at least I EARNED MY CITIZENSHIP it wasn't handed to me by coming out of some one's vagina!

[Lex]

29. You are a real asset to this country. It just shines through. nt

[freshwest]

78. Yes, wonder what country he took asylum from. Lovely.

[davidpdx]

106. Take off the -et and I think you've hit the nail on the head

[sarisataka]

31. I'll bite...

why would you wish to become a citizen of a nation of dumbasses who don't know shit and are handed their citizenship by coming out a vagina which is a police state?

Edit-> to clarify, the nation is the police state, not the vagina...

[gopiscrap]

35. at the time this nation was colectively

a lot smarter, I was compelled by my parents at the age of 16 to take the test..it was easy...it was right at the height of the then US Supreme Court-the Warren Court in which many rights were being expanded..since Reagan this country has gone to hell

[nobodyspecial]

113. Leave then

[gopiscrap]

129. that's the exact response

given by the GOP when some one disagrees with them...ignorant!

[Tanuki]

119. How did your parents get out of East Germany,

where you said you lived?

[gopiscrap]

128. both had powerful connections

in West Germany and also in the US...they lost everything they had.

[Control-Z]

33. Disgusting. (nt)

[cynatnite]

50. Do you think those of us who came out of vaginas in the US should have to earn it? n/t

[cui bono]

96. Anyone who wants to do anything with my vagina has to earn it!

Regardless of what country they're in.

[cynatnite]

118. Win! n/t

[Starry Messenger]

64. You fit right in with all the other woman-haters in the US.

Congrats.

[freshwest]

79. Yes, I hope you don't mind, but I'm memorializing that right here where it was called out:

Star Member gopiscrap (2,237 posts)
27. I am an American Citizen
took the test to pass and EARN citizenship not like dumbass native born folks who usually don't know shit about the constitution...went to law school also...Became a citizen when US was a much better place...and at least I EARNED MY CITIZENSHIP it wasn't handed to me by coming out of some one's vagina!

Starry, I think we have a real winner here. I wonder where the vagina that birthed him was located. Was it also unworthy?

[onenote]

104. Not a surprise that "some one's vagina" (your term) wanted to expel you

[davidpdx]

105. You know as a natural born citizen that is extermely offensive

And degrading of every single woman who is a citizen and has had a child. It is just plain sick to say that and I'm probably one of the last people that would jump on someone about a sexist comment. Citizenship in the US is a right and a privilege. If you want to demean those who are native born citizens please go over to freeperville as I'm sure they would fucking welcome you with open arms.

[Control-Z]

30. Great question!

I can't wait to hear the answer to your most perfect question.

[hfojvt]

70. Do you think

THEY would let him leave?

Ha, as if.

"You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave."

[damnedifIknow]

37. You may have a point

[patrice]

46. There ARE problems, but mischaracterizing them looks like propaganda about Big Brother and, hence,

under-cuts any validity to your point. What's more important specific ISSUES, like poverty, health care, and education, that affect people's lives without their consent and which a majority of people might feel do not have their due valence in social actions, or your reaction to perceived power.

Perhaps you and I have different definitions of freedom. Personally, I consider exclusively reactionary responses to any/all other-power (i.e. power that is not my own) to be a product of slave mentality which endows those other-powers with more power than I would wish to give them and, in so doing, it abdicates my own power in the process, especially as I lose alternative response options to reactionary dictates that propagandize against alernative options and devalues them relative to the slavish need to engage in mutually assured radicalization and, ultimately, destruction with any and all forms of other-power.

In short, I don't do death-struggle. I think it's stupid and self-defeating.

[Fumesucker]

71. You're a very good writer in some ways and have an outstanding vocabulary

But so many of your posts I read just don't parse for me, perhaps it's that you might be an academic and are used to conversing in that jargon style but I don't have a clue what you actually meant with most of this post. Your first paragraph is reasonably clear to me but the second one is as dense as so much neutronium.

A national security state (a more polite name for a police state) is a one way ratchet, there is no natural release mechanism for such a society short of really substantial social upheaval, every step we take in that direction makes it that much more difficult to ever claw back rights that we have lost.

[patrice]

86. What price are you willing to pay for what you think needs to be done? What price should others pay?

What will you do, how far would you go and what will be the benefits and liabilities of your effect upon what you want to change? Will the benefits exceed the liabilities in your brave new world?

I don't think the ends justifies the means. I prefer options. You don't, but you don't have a right to limit my options for me. That makes YOU the oppressor. Tell me what you/we should give up, how and when, in order to change whatever it is that you feel oppresses you. What about everyone else who does not agree with you, people who don't think we live in a police state, how will your actions, whatever they are, affect them? Do you have a right to affect them in a way that they do not choose to be affected for something that they don't even agree with you about in the first place? Who died and made you God?

Some people are absolutists of a type that is so blinded and hence limited by their reactions to authority that they make slaves out of themselves in self-reinforcing circles, endlessly exchanging one set of problems for another, and oppressing others in the process. It's like color-blindness or being tone deaf. Are you in denial about that? That's a question I ask myself all of the time. Can you? The freedoms some people have mean 0 compared to perceived oppressions. Honestly, WHY is that?

Show me how whatever you are thinking "needs" to be done isn't a fucking PIPE dream. Are you sure that you aren't oppressed by your own learned helplessness? Dependence making you hate that which fulfills your needs, for fear of losing what fulfills your needs?

When we receive assets that we don't directly create, the systems that produce that stuff generate some negative properties out of the sheer complexity of what those systems are dealing with. Those same systems also do EQUAL or even more good, but Entropy is practically inevitable. We should deal with those liabilities; that will reduce the emergent generalized oppression that results from those negative systemic properties. I am in the process of doing that for myself and others. NO ONE is impeding me. In fact, everyone is being helpful. The only restraints I experience are the ones that I have chosen. This is not a police state.

I suppose I haven't changed your mind. You can think whatever you WANT think no matter how wrong it is, but false thinking becomes an UNEARNED privilege to the extent that it FAILS to honestly challenge its own validity and operates only on assumptions about itself, so make no error about OTHERS in your quest to end this "police state".

If we did live in a police state there would be two main sets of solutions:

1. You could Get rid of a bunch of OTHERS and homogenize everyone, so that the state no longer needs to be a police state in order to deal with all of the different kinds of regressive behaviors. - OR -
2. Each individual person decides what to do to change the "police state" in whatever way they can, into whatever s/he thinks it should be, that is, decide what changes in your life you'll make to pay for what you think needs to happen - AND - DO IT and accept the consequences of your doing, accept the consequences of what YOU decide, instead of waiting for others to do it for/with you and bitching about them and insulting their integrity if they don't agree. If YOU can't do that, if a person can't do what s/he thinks needs to be done to free themselves, then they have enslaved themselves to whatever it is that s/he won't give up to end the oppression that s/he perceives s/he experiences.

If that's too complicated for you, here it is in the short form; some people seriously need to grow the f- up!

[Fumesucker]

92. What makes you believe I think the ends justify the means?

Maybe what *you* think what needs to be done is a pipe dream, maybe *you* are limiting my options, maybe *you* are the absolutist. Why is it that you are totally correct and I'm totally wrong?

You keep telling me what I think and from what I can grok of your writing you have interpreted my words completely opposite of what I actually think and try hard to convey in as clear and concise manner as I can.

Can you point to an example of a national security state that was rolled back without a major serious societal upheaval because I certainly can't think of one and this is a subject I've spent a lot of time contemplating.

We are headed toward a Brave New World indeed, technology is creating new and ever more subtle ways to spy on people, our every form of communication beyond face to face conversation and possibly the mail is constantly monitored and recorded. Our private prisons demand more prisoners for the profits, the prison guard union is the most powerful lobbying group in California and they *always* push for more and stricter sentences, again for their financial benefit.

Good grief, you live in a nation that has private, for profit prisons, that's absolutely unconscionable in a supposedly free society since it creates even more of a profit center than already naturally exists around crime and criminal "justice".

I'll just point out that I tried to compliment you and you tried to insult me in return, grow the fuck up yourself.

The most abject slave is the slave that does not even realize he is a slave.

[BlueStreak]

49. Those who object to the term "police state" had better come up with a very convincing explanation

Last edited Sat Apr 20, 2013, 07:50 AM - Edit history (1)

for this:

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/04/19/lindsey-graham-reading-miranda-rights-to-bombing-suspect-a-bad-idea/

I heard it reported on the news this evening (and I most certainly don't truest anything I hear on the media) that this was exactly what was going to happen -- that there would be extensive questioning without Mirandizing the accused. That is exactly the kind of thing a police state would do.

[yawnmaster]

51. LOL. this is not a police state...

just because the police are able to mobilize as they did does not make this a police state.
sheeesh.

[Amonester]

53. The 19-year-old adult (sic) is somehow lucky it was Boston and not Moscow...

http://www.marafon.msk.ru/charitable-foundation-of-moscow-intl-peace-marathon?lang=en

And I feel lucky not to live there too.

Not that I wouldn't go for a visit, but....

I only wish there wasn't that much senseless violence on this planet.

[patrice]

54. I'd like to see your opinion of U.S. participation in a U.N. treaty to control the flow of assault

weapons, including U.S. manufactured assault weapons, into the world's financially ailing poor countries, please.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022193033

[Hekate]

93. Oh, hey, exactly 3 hours have gone by and no response to your question!

Well well well

[Cha]

57. You're not raining on my parade or anyone I know of in Boston

who are only too Grateful for the Police, who did their jobs so bravely.

[Zoeisright]

60. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

I'll bet you hate that they belong to a union and get paid so well too!!

What a maroon.

[Zax2me]

69. You need to spend a few weeks in a real police state.

I suspect you would change your tune.

[HiPointDem]

73. "The term electronic police state describes a state in which the government aggressively

uses electronic technologies to record, organize, search, and distribute forensic evidence against its citizens"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_police_state


As previously discussed, it is not possible to objectively determine whether a nation has become or is becoming a police state... However, there are a few highly debated examples which serve to illustrate partial characteristics of a police state's structure. These examples are listed below.

The South African apartheid system was generally considered to have been a police state despite having been nominally a democracy (albeit with the Black African majority population excluded from the democracy).

The Soviet Union and its many satellite states, including North Korea and East Germany were notorious for their extensive and repressive police and intelligence services, with approximately 2.5% of the East German adult population serving (knowingly or unknowingly) as informants for the Stasi.

Nazi Germany, a dictatorship, was, at least initially, brought into being through a nominal democracy, yet exerted repressive controls over its people. Germany was a police state; using the SS/SA to assert control over the population in the 1930s

Paris-based Reporters Without Borders ranked North Korea second last out of 168 countries in a test of press freedom. It has been reported that the only TV channel in North Korea predominately eulogises the country's past leaders Kim Jong Il and his father Kim Il Sung. As a result, some locals in Pyongyang have been quoted as stating that their leaders are gods.[8]

George Churchill-Coleman, who headed Scotland Yard's anti-terrorist squad in the United Kingdom, stated he had a "horrible feeling" that Britain was moving in the direction of a police state. Claims of police state behaviour have been dismissed by the UK government.

The term "police state" was first used in 1851, in reference to the use of a national police force to maintain order in Austria.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_state

[defacto7]

75. The unfortunate question to ask is....

Chicken or egg?

[davidn3600]

76. Look how easy it was to shut down Boston and get 100% compliance

Now imagine what the government could do if they orchestrated a bomb blast. They can call a press conference and single out two random people in the crowd. They could put fear over the entire city. And the people will happily give up their rights in return for the promise of safety.

This time....we and the government were on the same side. But what happens in the future when we are not?

The government is under no obligation to tell you the truth about anything. If you think our government can't lie...look at Iraq. Where are the WMDs? Our government used our fear and patriotism from 9/11 to further erode our civil liberties and invade other sovereign nations. And look what happened to those that question or decent...people against the war were tossed into the same category as the terrorists.

Fear and patriotism mixed in a certain way can be incredibly dangerous. That's how the Nazis kept the population firmly in support of Hitler.

[freshwest]

77. What parody. There's always Somalia. No police and no state. Just warlords. Paradise. We either run

our country ourselves or let libertarians turn it into a textbook fascist system of patronage where only the rich and connected have any kind of rights or freedoms.

Sorry, you can count me out. No matter how many films that Alex Jones feeds the masses, he's a fascist who isn't telling the truth.



I might refer all hysteria about martial law and a police state to some of the residents of Boston:

This. Is. VOLUNTARY.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2713665

EOM.

[newmember]

83. watch this

[patrice]

87. Alternative? that is . . . a SUCCESSFUL alternative?

I can actually think of one, but I'm interested in seeing what you think.

[patrice]

88. Tell us you wouldn't be here complaining just as much if they had not caught the alleged criminal.

[Warren DeMontague]

84. wha?

hah?

[Onlooker]

85. Wrong wrong wrong

We were asked to stay indoors, not ordered to stay indoors. I saw a few people out. The closing of mass transit was to prevent the guy from escaping, but people who had to go to work still found ways to work. A friend of mine car pooled with someone from a nearby town; others walked. The police weren't breaking into houses; they were knocking on doors and asking permission. No innocent people were beaten up or arrested. It was a healthy example of people working together.

[patrice]

89. I'm not listening to anyone who says fuck about a "police state" who's also fine with UNREGULATED

assault weapons markets at home and around the world.

[gopiscrap]

140. YES!!!!!!!

If it was up to me ALL hand gun ownership would be illegal as would assult weapons

[Hekate]

90. 'Unclear on the concept' is the least-profane thing I can say of your OP

[jambo101]

94. So which country would you hold up as an example we could aspire to.

I'm fine with a strong police presence..the alternative of anarchy doesnt appeal to me..
To me a real police state is something akin to N.Korea where even your thoughts have to conform to strict government standards.

[gopiscrap]

130. Iceland. Sweden, Norway, Denmark

[Inkfreak]

97. Such a silly post.

Maybe I'd have a higher post count if I posted such random silly thoughts with no basis in reality. Oh well....

[randome]

116. It's stream-of-consciousness posting!

[DCBob]

100. clue..

less.

[JCMach1]

101. Are you serious?

We are nowhere close...

[BlueStreak]

102. My, we seem to have a bunch of expoerts on the police state here. 1 simple question.

Can you identify any of the great police states in history that became police states overnight and did not get there through a succession of steps, including some of the steps identified above in this thread?

Instead of just acting like ignorant jerks making ad hominem attacks on the OPer, either engage in a serious dialog or STFU.

I await an answer this this simple question. Just identify one police state that didn't get there through a serious of progressively more authoritarian steps.

And I'll stipulate that America in 2013 is not all the way there yet. That isn't the question. The question is whether or not we are on that path and whether we actually have any ability to turn back.

[avebury]

127. Your observation is correct. Every country that became a police

state did evolve into one over a series of events. I think that the US began going down that road after 9-11 and I don't see any evidence that we are leaving that road in the near future. Look at the laws that have been passed, the fact that we have become a country were torture has become acceptable, and there have been no move to prosecute Government officials who have broken domestic and/or international laws. We no longer have a Congress that truly represents its Citizens. Even when over 50% of the people favor rationale changes in gun laws, Congress bows to the NRA. Look at continual efforts to pass voter suppression laws, redistricting laws, etc. Take pictures/videos in animal processing plants - illegal. Video police actions, not if the police can take away your camera/cellphone. So many of the laws passed are really in the best interest of the 1% because they hamper the ability of the 99% to rise up and demand changes. The American Revolutionary forces that took on King George would be considered domestic terrorists today.

If we are not a Police State now, it does not mean that we won't get there someday.

[gopiscrap]

133. thank you this is what I wanted

and yes, I broad brushed it because I if figured in the heat of the event I would get exactly the negative reaction that came about. It is in this context that we have to become most careful, because that is when incrementally it happens! My mom grew up in Hitler's Germany and some of the stuff she told me about the lead up to Hitler's facism and edicts are some of the same types of stuff that is happening in the US. We need to be ever vigilant and careful not to let a police state creep up on us...because once we are full engulfed in one, it will be too late!

[gulliver]

107. Republicanism is stupid. n/t

[gopiscrap]

135. AGREED

[daleanime]

109. You sound surprized.....

[jessie04]

117. " Rain on parade" ??

seems more like peeing.

[Dash87]

120. The reactions to this post are worrisome.

Because someone doesn't like APC's rolling on the streets of America to find one person, and the fact that the police closed an entire city down, they should get out of America and don't know what they're talking about? Having an opinion either way is not valid?

Is it okay that the suspect is not allowed his Miranda rights? Is it okay for the police to just randomly search anyone's home because of a terrorist attack despite it being completely illogical that the suspect would be there?

The overreaction of the police in Boston is a bit frightening. Do you really need dozens of APCs, military grade vehicles, and 100's upon hundreds of police (who looked practically indistinguishable from military soldiers) running around to hunt one man? Was closing down a city and telling everyone (or "volunteering" everyone) to stay inside really necessary? What message does this send to other terrorists about how much they could accomplish by just using a small bomb and intermittent small attacks?

Isn't this the equivalent to shooting bazookas to kill fire ants? Those pictures look more like a military operation than a police operation. The media doesn't help matters either.

[gopiscrap]

134. THANK YOU! WELL SAID

[LuvNewcastle]

139. It looked creepy as hell.

They had tanks rolling around in the streets. Tanks. Were they expecting to meet an opposing army? It was scary, and at the same time they looked very foolish. They got to dress up in all their battle gear and drag out all their toys that Homeland Security has been giving them grants for in the past decade, all so they could catch two guys. Displaying overwhelming force like they did is effective for psy-ops purposes, though, which I think was as much for the public's benefit as it was for the killers'.

[BlueStreak]

144. Similarly, the problem with the Miranda Rights thing is ...

not whether or or not there might be a legitimate argument for a limited interrogation before permitting the suspect to have legal counsel.

The problem is that the media reported that as if that is perfectly normal -- and of course in a "Patriot act nation", it *IS* normal. We already have an authoritarian state, and the media will not question that.

Another word for that is fascism, and it surprises me that so many people are so swallowed up in the jingoistic celebration of the arrest that they cannot see the bigger picture.

U. S. A.
U. S. A.
U. S. A.
U. S. A.

[Myrina]

121. Sorta off topic but, something one of the talking heads said caught me ...

... this was when they were still "on hold" surrounding the boat ... he commented that with all the social media, video, FLIR, etc etc ... "It's almost impossible to do something bad in this country anymore". My immediate thought was "Yeah, unless you're a CEO or a banker ..."


So, yeah ... maybe that IS on topic. Peeps in the streets are watched, arrested and prosecuted for something as meager as ripping off a 7-11 for smokes and beer, but the corporate assholes who take millions and billions of our & the govt's money never seem to 'get caught'.

Disturbing.

[gopiscrap]

141. Yup and worse yet, cops get away crime all the time

every time a cop does get caught, he either isn't prosecuted or get a slap on the wrist unless it's so egregious as to offend 90% of the country!

[baldguy]

142. It's not a "police state" simply because it has police.

And Massachusetts is technically a Commonwealth, anyway. I guess "police commonwealth" doesn't have the same ominous ring to it?