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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPoll: After a fair trial - Dzhokhar Tsarnaev should be...
Poll below
26 votes, 2 passes | Time left: Unlimited | |
Found not guilty, because he was good kid and only did bad because he was influenced by older brother | |
0 (0%) |
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Found guilty, life in prison WITH a chance of parole | |
3 (12%) |
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Found guilty, life in prison WITHOUT a chance of parole | |
15 (58%) |
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Found guilty, and given the federal death penalty | |
7 (27%) |
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Other | |
1 (4%) |
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2 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided. | |
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Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll |
flvegan
(64,389 posts)At least be honest with it.
Tx4obama
(36,974 posts)I'm not projecting anything.
There will be a trial and there will be an outcome - I am only asking a poll question.
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)I look forward to seeing the evidence presented and trust a jury of his peers with his fate.
Trajan
(19,089 posts)People, however, have a different threshold ...
You are free to choose the 'innocent until proven guilty' stance, if you wish ...
A person may, however, decide upon guilt, depending on the quantity and quality of the facts known to be true.
I feel very strongly that OJ Simpson is guilty of murder .. Yet he was found not guilty by a court of law ...
Must I change my view to adhere to the court's decision ? ... or shall I have my own opinion ?
What of the numerous whites who, after the Civil War, were charged with crimes against blacks, but were acquitted, thanks to whatever biases were present in the jury or at the bench ... are they all innocent ? .... Every single one ?
If even ONE white was wrongly acquitted of criminal acts against blacks, then I reserve the right to judge for myself, outside of the purview of a judge or jury, as to whether a person is guilty or not ...
My choice ...
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)Here's something sure to piss off DUers: I not only oppose the death penalty. I oppose "without possibility of parole" for all but the most heinous cases (Manson types, established, irredeemable serial killers, and the like). European model: 20-25 years, then you get another chance.
Pour on your hatred. I don't care. I'm right about this.
Bicoastal
(12,645 posts)These crime-and-punishment arguments are never as cut and dry as all that.
My argument--THIS was a heinous crime, because it was indiscriminate. It doesn't matter if the guy is a different person at 45 years if the victims' family members are still feeling the same anguish 20-25 years later, and loss due to senseless crimes are some of the hardest things a person can endure.
20-25 years later that father will still be thinking "If only I had suggested viewing the parade on the other side of the street, my son could be alive today." Regardless of regret or rehabilitation, I don't want the killer's life to be on better footing than his victim's father, whose own life can never be fully healed.
markiv
(1,489 posts)that this was a heinous case, if they still had their arms
ornotna
(10,763 posts)Our "no tolerance" justice system can be pretty harsh at times.
JI7
(89,177 posts)alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)But not irredeemable.
I know my position is not in the mainstream on this.
Nevertheless. No parole punishments for 19 year olds are morally wrong, in my view, most of the time. To respond to somebody upthread, it's not a certainty what that "most" means, but I err on the side of charity.
JI7
(89,177 posts)and tearing off limbs of people
look at that family that lost the child. the mother suffers from damage to head, the young sister is losing a leg. all the while they will be dealing with the loss of a brother/son.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)MrSlayer
(22,143 posts)Similar crime, similar punishment. Consistency is important.
Logical
(22,457 posts)alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)McVeigh killed 168 people, including 19 children under the age of 6.
It's a stretch to call this a similar crime. I do understand your argument. But at some point that difference in degree becomes a difference in kind.
MrSlayer
(22,143 posts)But don't doubt that if these two knuckleheads could have done "better" they would have.
Even if they had killed no one in this cowardly attack my position would be the same.
400 counts of attempted murder is good enough for me.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)We disagree.
Logical
(22,457 posts)backscatter712
(26,355 posts)I'm a fan of figuring out what makes these kinds of killers tick - maybe this knowledge could prevent the next killings.
Tx4obama
(36,974 posts)... to see what made him 'tick'.
So, I have a feeling no one is actually studying any of these heinous murderers.
napoleon_in_rags
(3,991 posts)What was Dalmer doing? Making a temple to satan out of the body parts of gay lovers? That's really not something you see every day. But in this case, you have these people going on military style strikes against the general population again, and again, and again. There's one like every month. So discovering what the triggers are here, what the thinking - the chain of experiences - leading up to these events is here, is incredibly important. Because its only a matter of time before another one, unfortunately.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)DevonRex
(22,541 posts)napoleon_in_rags
(3,991 posts)Intelligence which prevents the next 8 year old from getting killed.
Above all, I hope they come at him scientifically. Learn the exact motivations, learn how his mind works, learn about the radicalization process and the networks, learn about all of it. Set vengeance on the back burner, and learning on the front burner, all with the intent of saving that next kid.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Tx4obama
(36,974 posts)Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)I would say life with the possibility of parole after he serves a significant period of time. He is a youthful offender, after all, and, although I'm not a Christian, I do believe in redemption.
longship
(40,416 posts)Let's get right to the verdict!!!!!
Sheesh!
Tx4obama
(36,974 posts)longship
(40,416 posts)You are asking for people to render a verdict before the trial. Same thing, in practice.
I rest my case.
Tx4obama
(36,974 posts)longship
(40,416 posts)But I still do not render verdicts before a trial. And since they'll not likely move the trial to the the Manistee National Forest, I'll likely not be on the jury panel.
I still object, respectfully, to asking people to render a verdict before a trial.
Thanks for your respectful reply.
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)Tx4obama
(36,974 posts)TAMPA, Fla. Lawrence Singleton, who chopped off a teenage hitchhiker's forearms in California...
-snip-
Full article here: http://articles.latimes.com/2002/jan/01/local/me-19534
I remember seeing Mary Vincent on Oprah years ago and was shocked that they let that man out of prison.
Tonight is the first time that I've read that after he was released prison he mutilated another woman.
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)In that I mean that that story alone does not condemn the practice.
sarisataka
(18,220 posts)a verdict from a jury of his peers that is based on testimony and evidence.
If the verdict is guilty, he should be sentenced in accordance with the appropriate laws...
frylock
(34,825 posts)you need to look within yourself to understand why you want to see him murdered by the state rather than relying on an internet poll to rationalize your need to see him executed.
B2G
(9,766 posts)Maybe then I can answer. I'm sure he's guilty. Just unsure what I think the punishment should be.
rug
(82,333 posts)Without evidence presented in a court, a vote today must be not guilty.
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)I would give him life in prision for that alone. Granted I wasn't there at the shootout, but that alone is easy enough to prove, before they even introduce evidence about the bombing.
pettypace
(744 posts)Definitely should be sent overseas. Don't want to see months long trial like its 1995 all over again.
Plus he can enjoy the fun and sun with the brothers in Cuba.
Let it be a lesson for any future potential troublemakers that if you mess with the horns, you will get the bull and the bull you shall get. Huzzah for the shopkeep!
white_wolf
(6,238 posts)spanone
(135,635 posts)Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)it's for a jury to say whether he's found guilty or innocent; if he's found guilty? Life in prison with no possibility of parole.
Chan790
(20,176 posts)and other factors...at the very worst, life without parole in ADX Florence tucked between Kaczynski and Nichols.
defacto7
(13,485 posts)What bizarre possible answers to a bizarre question.
Assumptions have no realistic answer so I guess it's just a fun game.
Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)"really nice kid" to life without any chance of parole would not be fair or just. . In his particular case - it sounds like he was heavily influenced by his older brother - which is something that the propensity to do would likely decrease with age. I would dare bet that he will very soon and for the rest of his life wish with all his heart and would give anything to undo what he had done. I think he should be held for a long period of time and then released when there is a reasonable certainty that he will no longer pose any threat to society.
IN general I don't believe in life without the possibility of parole anymore than I believe in the death penalty. Given just how extreme it is to lock someone up in a prison - and given how absolutely terrible life in prison is - I believe that it would be immoral to use that penalty except in circumstances - when any release at any point would represent a real danger to society.
StarryNite
(9,364 posts)"Found not guilty, because he was good kid and only did bad because he was influenced by older brother" hasn't gotten a bunch of votes based on so many of the sympathy threads and comments for him. I just don't understand all the sympathy for this murderer.
MOTRDemocrat
(87 posts)DreamGypsy
(2,252 posts)...and which song will it be??
I didn't respond to the poll. I think it best not to make judgment about anything when knowledge is still in flux and passions are inflamed. However, I understand the motivations, good or bad, about raising this type of question.
When I ponder these types of questions I often color my musings with relevant songs. They may not offer answers, but songwriters have to distill the concepts, emotions, and reasoning into a more clear liquor before swallowing. That helps.
I offer these two examples on the topic at hand.
Canadian David Francey wrote this about Timothy McVeigh:
And for the other alternate, there is Phil Ochs' song about Paut Crump:
911 inspired many thoughtful, powerful songs.
Perhaps the Boston Marathon Bombings, or whatever it is named in the history books, will result in songs for the victims, for the law enforcement professionals, for the people of Boston and Massachusetts, and maybe even for the fate of at least on perpetrator of the crime.
duffyduff
(3,251 posts)along with other celebrity killers like Zacarias Moussaoui, Eric Rudolph, Terry Nichols, and Ted Kaczynski.
That's a certainty.
jessie04
(1,528 posts)Seems he was a good kid unyil his brother filled his head with bs.
life with parole.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)"Perchance he for whom this bell tolls may be so ill, as that he knows not it tolls for him; and perchance I may think myself so much better than I am, as that they who are about me, and see my state, may have caused it to toll for me, and I know not that.
...
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were: any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee."
John Donne
kenny blankenship
(15,689 posts)end up small, get smaller all along the way, and never want to be anything else.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)A judge sentence accordingly.
treestar
(82,383 posts)But the trial may reveal different factors. It's not likely he is really innocent as the evidence already mentioned seems pretty strong. As to the punishment, I may be more merciful after hearing his story, but at most life with parole possible. Unless he's mentally ill and it is proven.
TimberValley
(318 posts)I thought support for it would be much lower on this forum.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)El Fuego
(6,502 posts)There's a death penalty under federal law.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Couldn't the feds just leave it up to Mass to conduct it's own trial?
El Fuego
(6,502 posts)All the reports I've read say that federal terrorism charges will be filed.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)I'm not challenging your statements I just think that it's a bit blurry at the moment. And, if he is charged, stands trial, and is found guilty only in Mass he would not face the death penalty.
El Fuego
(6,502 posts)I guess Mass could file its own charges for the crimes he committed under Mass state laws. Terrorism is only federal, and there will be separate charges for terrorism and for murder and the rest. But if there's a federal terrorism charge, the federal court has the option to exercise jurisdiction over the Mass state charges as well. In other words, if there is just one federal charge they can take over the whole thing from the state court.
Tx4obama
(36,974 posts)Public defenders will represent bomb suspect
Denise Lavoie,AP Legal Affairs Writer
BOSTON (AP) Federal public defenders have agreed to represent the suspect in the Boston Marathon bombings.
Miriam Conrad, the federal defender for Massachusetts, says her office expects to represent Dzhokhar Tsarnaev (joh-KHAR' tsahr-NEYE'-ehv) after he is charged.
-snip-
http://live.boston.com/Event/Live_blog_Explosion_in_Copley_Square/73953301
Quantess
(27,630 posts)and he deserves to be locked up for the rest of his life.
Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)marlakay
(11,370 posts)I want him to live his whole life thinking about what he did. Maybe if they let him writing a book with all profits going to victims talking about how he knows what he did is wrong.