General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe terrorists fired over 200 rounds in last night's gun battle with police.
Last edited Fri Apr 19, 2013, 06:19 PM - Edit history (2)
It will be very interesting to hear about the capacity of their clips.
Re: The Senate Vote Of Shame.
On edit: Reported on MSNBC.
Here's a link:
The Boston Marathon bombing suspect was on the run Friday evening as officials said he and his brother exchanged 200 rounds with police during a stunning firefight early in the morning and left seven homemade explosives behind.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/19/17823265-200-rounds-details-of-firefight-emerge-as-manhunt-focuses-on-one-suspect?lite
avaistheone1
(14,626 posts)Locals reported there several huge booms were heard as well.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #2)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)We can't even keep the hardcore drugs off the street.
pipoman
(16,038 posts)Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)BainsBane
(53,003 posts)People make money off that stuff.
pipoman
(16,038 posts)BainsBane
(53,003 posts)Now you want bombs too?
The point is they don't keep drugs out of prisons because they don't want to, the same reason the NRA and the rest of the gun lobby wants criminals to have ready access to guns--profit.
pipoman
(16,038 posts)I have spent time representing inmates in at least 10 prisons, both state and federal...including Florence ADX..try taking a bit of heroin...hell a pack of cigarettes in..then come back and tell me "they don't want to" keep contraband out of the prison..
theaocp
(4,223 posts)I recommend the ONDCP regulate illicit substances the same way we regulate guns.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)ALochol drugs!!!1 DOn't think about guns!!!
premium
(3,731 posts)How?
Heather MC
(8,084 posts)It is un-american to want to restrict us hardworking Americans from the right to toss our bombs anywhere we want!
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,470 posts)Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)Sorry, my fourth-grade teacher just rolled over in her bed. Let her sleep peacefully, I beg of you.
Bear, when used as a verb, has nothing to do with furry animals. When used as a verb it can mean to endure or carry. Women bear children (give birth to), we bear insults, we bear arms.
In English, "bare" is just an adjective meaning unclothed, unadorned, unconcealed, in plain sight. It's not a verb.
Heather MC
(8,084 posts)Why does everything have to be so perfect for some of you people.
Your forth grade teacher ain't grading my post, who cares!
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)Heather MC
(8,084 posts)Coyotl
(15,262 posts)Good one
Heather MC
(8,084 posts)Heather MC
(8,084 posts)Some things get lost in translation on the innernet
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...by rolling up your sleeves.
"bare" is a verb as well as an adjective.
Not to say it wasn't misused, but still, if you're going to give English lessons...
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)EOTE
(13,409 posts)and ensure that ridiculous capacity magazines are banned. If you need more than a 10 round magazine for anything, you have no place in civil society.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)The law says he's not allowed to own a gun, period.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)If high capacity magazines were banned, he'd have a much harder time obtaining them. If there were no gun show loophole, he wouldn't be able to obtain horrific weapons easily. These are common sense measures that are only being opposed by people who have an utter lack of common sense.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)As has been noted up-thread, you can even get drugs in federal prison.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)Again, a ridiculously stupid comparison. And I'm guessing because people can get access to heroin anyway, we should have heroin shows where anybody can buy as much heroin as they want with no background checks. You gun nuts would be utterly hilarious if you weren't so damned dangerous.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Learn to live with facts.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)Attack helicopters? Nope, people don't have the right to something grown in the ground, but they do have the right to flood the streets with unlimited arms which put us dead last amongst first world countries in terms of gun violence. Perhaps it's insane thinking like that of you and the rest of the gun nuts that has made this country such a scary place to live?
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Settled law. Get used to it.
And just for the sake of conversation -- when Holmes used a 100-round magazine it jammed. When Loughner used an extended magazine it jammed. The police do not use them because they are not reliable.
You're the only one who can relieve yourself of your irrational fears. There is no bogeyman out to get you.
NoMoreWarNow
(1,259 posts)because the common wisdom is that Loughner only was stopped when he had to change magazines. The story on Holmes is less clear. But certainly having to change clips more often slows them down, and in a mass killing situation, every second counts.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)They bellow out their massive amounts of bullshit authoritatively and expect everyone else to swallow it whole. Perhaps it helps them sleep at night. Perhaps it helps to silence what little conscience they have remaining. Regardless, telling the truth is absolutely off limits.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)That's really fucking stupid. There's no decent person on earth who has a need for a high capacity magazine, they're only used for bad things. If "common use" includes shit like that, the term is meaningless. I would never turn to a gun nut for anything approaching common sense. Those evil fucks were still able to kill a fuck load of people in spite of their jams, weren't they? Christ, do the gun nuts have ANY conscience whatsoever?
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)EOTE
(13,409 posts)There is nothing good that a person can do that involves high capacity magazines. Getting rid of high capacity magazines is a no brainer. Unfortunately, gun nuts take that as a challenge.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)EOTE
(13,409 posts)My opposition to a device whose SOLE practical purpose is mass killings is a phobia. I'd say that someone who supports something like that has a good deal more than a phobia. A person who'd support such a thing has a deep, disturbing sickness.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)"unlimited capacity"? I guess we'll add deceitful to phobic and ignorant.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)There's no reason that average people should have access to the same gear that SWAT teams use. And just what is deceitful about "unlimited capacity"?
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Please show us the roving semi-auto rifle owners going out and insinuating themselves into active gun fights and killing massive amounts of citizens. You might want to re-read the Constitution. There's no, "what somebody else deems reasonable" clause. No other right is subject to such nonsensical fictions.
The only unlimited capacity magazine in existence is when you hold your fingers in an "L" and go "Pyoo! Pyoo! Pyoo!" Sadly, the phobia of your sorts has grown to such a fevered pitch school children are having their lives up-ended over this very act.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)Because terrorists could certainly have those. Christ, what don't you understand about reasonable limits? "Unlimited capacity" is an appropriate term because there is literally no limit to what manufacturers are allowed to create in most states. You are aware that words mean things, right? Just as no citizen should expect to ever have to face off against an attack helicopter or an aircraft carrier, no citizen should ever expect to have to take on numerous baddies with numerous assault weapons. Regardless, THAT is what our police force is for. In the real world, citizens don't go all out John McClane style taking out a dozen terrorists or criminals with assault weapons. I know things are very different in the mind of a gun nut, but I assure you the real world is not like that.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)30-round magazines are standard issue and most popular.
No one expects to get into a serious car accident, either. And, again, police carry semi-automatic rifles not because they are assaulting fortified positions but because in the course of their duties they predominantly encounter singular criminals. Their professional experience has presumably taught them that a semi-automatic rifle is best for gaining the tactical advantage. They also carry 30-round clips to also confront singular criminals -- not for mass-killing -- and not one of them ever complained of having too much ammunition at the end of the encounter.
More fictions.
The Constitution was well-aware that constabulary agencies existed in its day and yet the right to personal self defense was codified. Nowhere does it presume citizens are expected to wait passively for the police that entire premise was shot down in both the Heller and the McDonald decisions.
You're right. They don't. So why bother making up such a ridiculous statement? Lying only makes you look like a liar.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)You and all the rest of the gun nuts.
What you are utterly able to understand is that by your standard, NOTHING is off limits. When police have access to armed drones, should we have those as well? Nutters like you are dangerous to society. Do you have any idea as to what mutually assured destruction is? When will it stop? You haven't addressed this issue at all. What is to prevent a terrorist from gunning down your family with an attack helicopter? NOTHING. So that means we should have those as well? YOU are the liar. I've said absolutely nada that's incorrect. You are taking things to utterly ludicrous extremes.
Here's a question that I'm fairly sure I won't get an answer to. Do you support Americans' right to own fully automatics? If so, why? I'm guessing you're not going to even attempt to answer this, but I look forward to it anyway. You have all the logic of Wayne LaPierre and his toadies. They don't give one tiny damn about the lives of innocents and children, they only care about their toys. I look forward to your answer, but I have a feeling you won't be able to.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)but you accuse me of living in a fantasy world. Let me know if you want to talk about things that actually happen. I really don't have the time to entertain every crackpot fantasy you whip up to argue about things that aren't happening.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)And hold off the baddies with your 100 round clips?
You are utterly hilarious. To make up the most ludicrous scenarios to justify your need for mass murder devices and then accuse ME of conjuring non-existent scenarios.
And I notice you didn't even attempt to tell me whether Americans should have the right to fully automatic weapons. Not that I expect you to as it would further expose you. But hey, you're able to sleep at night, right? I'm guessing you sleep like a baby. It's the conscience that keeps you up at night.
Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #41)
clffrdjk This message was self-deleted by its author.
The mag. limit that was proposed by Sen. Feinstein would've only banned the manufacture of new ones, it would not have banned the sale of ones already in circulation.
There are hundreds of millions of those mags. in circulation, so they would have had no problem getting them.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)I'm sure that DiFi knew that including existing hi-cap mags would be politically unfeasible. That's beside the point as what I was trying to suggest was that common sense measures such as that are fought tooth and nail by the gun nuts, even ones we have here. It's sickening.
oneshooter
(8,614 posts)EOTE
(13,409 posts)Should they be able to use high capacity magazines? Probably not, but that's not really pertinent to the conversation.
doc03
(35,148 posts)checks. They say 40% of gun sales are private party transactions.
Straw Man
(6,613 posts)checks.
You have to have a firearm owner's license in MA to buy a gun, even in a private sale.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Too bad it wasn't *more* illegal.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)She hasn't slept since.
jpak
(41,742 posts)At times, the gunfire was sustained.
Marr
(20,317 posts)Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)more than 200, I will wager.
malaise
(267,824 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)nt.
sandmann
(32 posts)According to most, you can buy guns in vending machines.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Nevermind the fact that a cop was shot and died from these non-existent weapons.
Robb
(39,665 posts)FINALLY!!!!
I would do a little dance...but will probably get yelled at because he was somebodies 'favorite troll'.
frylock
(34,825 posts)good riddance. there wasn't a conservative position that authoritarian piece of shit wouldn't defend.
jpak
(41,742 posts)Which would suggest they had semi-autos with lots of loaded clips.
yup
premium
(3,731 posts)they took his service weapon and long gun, probably took his high capacity mags also.
Response to premium (Reply #14)
Name removed Message auto-removed
premium
(3,731 posts)if a high capacity mag ban were to ever be implemented, then what's good for the citizenry is good for law enforcement.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)BootinUp
(46,928 posts)olddots
(10,237 posts)Thanks NRA death merchants and libertarian tapeworms for your never ending battle against progress .
kudzu22
(1,273 posts)I doubt anyone's done a forensic round count before they actually catch the guy.
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)bigdarryl
(13,190 posts)Of coarse the NRA thinks its ok
premium
(3,731 posts)HipChick
(25,485 posts)Everything is begining to smell about this..
OldHippieChick
(2,434 posts)is what Tweety just said. Still, I suspect that #2 is dead or dying somewhere.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)Dzhokhar Tsarnaev got a green card in 2007, and became a naturalized United States citizen on Sept. 11, 2012, officials said. Tamerlan was denied citizenship after he was involved in a domestic-violence episode, his father said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/20/us/boston-marathon-bombings.html?_r=0
But his brother could....
doc03
(35,148 posts)in a private sale. The explosives could also been traced but the NRA lobbied against taggets in explosives after Oklahoma City, their argument, they could damage rifle barrels.
sarisataka
(18,220 posts)as in blow-up-in-your-face. Blinding or lethal injuries are cause for concern.
Explosives often do have taggants but only Switzerland requires it.
doc03
(35,148 posts)they wanted to put taggets in gun powder. They claimed it could wear the rifling of course the nut jobs expanded that to blowing up I suppose. If a bullet can pass through a barrel at 3000 feet per second tight enough to cut groves in brass I hardly doubt a small tagget could harm a barrel at all. But gun nuts will beleive anything the NRA feeds them.
sarisataka
(18,220 posts)X-ray systems and dogs currently provide a strong capability for detecting bomb containers and unmarked black and smokeless powders in the scenarios considered by the committee, and most powder bombings currently take place at locations in which deployment of bomb detection systems is not practicable (see Table 1.4 in chapter 1). Therefore, the committee believes that the effectiveness of a marking program would be limited at the present time. Institution of a marking program would incur significant costs. At the current level of fewer than 10 deaths and 100 injuries per year and very few terrorist incidents, the committee believes that the benefits are not sufficient to justify such a marking program. If the threat were to increase substantially in the future and test data were available, benefits might exceed costs, and a marking program might be warranted. A marking program for black and smokeless powders would be justified only if three criteria were met: the frequency and severity of black and smokeless powder bombs were found to be high enough to justify marking; the markers first were thoroughly tested and found to be safe and effective under conditions likely to be encountered in the legal and illegal uses of the powders; and the social benefits of markers were found to outweigh the costs of their use.
http://www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=6289
jpak
(41,742 posts)Tag 'em
yup
sarisataka
(18,220 posts)the frequency and severity of black and smokeless powder bombs were found to be high enough to justify marking- No, gun powder based bombs are still rare
The markers first were thoroughly tested and found to be safe and effective under conditions likely to be encountered in the legal and illegal uses of the powders- Don't know if any efforts have been made
The social benefits of markers were found to outweigh the costs of their use- Yes, the cost should not be burdensome as taggants are used like copyright markers in cosmetics and other products
If they have a tested method that shows their use in powder is safe, I say let's do it
jpak
(41,742 posts)tag the powder
now
No more NRA interference.
No more NRA obfuscating
Do it.
Yup
jpak
(41,742 posts)Gun nuts can't handle a slight drop in bullet velocity.
try again
yup
The NAS agreed
jpak
(41,742 posts)douchebags all.
yup
sarisataka
(18,220 posts)to be against a safety issue because of the group that supports it. I would be happy if the KKK filed a lawsuit for cleaner drinking water- doesn't mean I still would stop considering them dispicable
jpak
(41,742 posts)Sorry - gun nuts lose.
yup
sarisataka
(18,220 posts)the police use the same powder in their guns. Would a 1% chance of the gun exploding be acceptable? .23%? 3.14? each and ever time an officer pulls the trigger
jpak
(41,742 posts)30,000 people are killed with untagged gunpowder each year.
And your point is?
Think it through...
yup
sarisataka
(18,220 posts)and how exactly would taggants solve shootings?? They tell you what lot of powder was used...
doc03
(35,148 posts)a gun would blow up is if there was an obstruction in the barrel or an exssesive powder charge or a cheap ass gun. Like I said before a bullet passes through a barrel at 3000 feet per second
and it is so tight a fit that groves are cut in the metal jacket of the bullet. A tiny little marker in the powder is not going to make a barrel explode or wear it out either.
sarisataka
(18,220 posts)on excessive powder charge. Testing indicated the taggants were affecting the burn rates in an unpredictable fashion. Most of the time it was not a significant change but in some cases it was increasing pressure by about 20% IIRC.
That increase puts the pressure right at, or just above test level for most barrels. Not a good situation...
I have not followed developments of the technology. If a marker method can be used that would keep pressure spikes within reasonable limits there is no reason to not use it.
doc03
(35,148 posts)NRA put up to protect terroists bombs. May wear out barrel, cost too much, only 10 people killed not cost effective yada yada yada Same bullshit we got on the gun bill.
Straw Man
(6,613 posts)Last edited Fri Apr 19, 2013, 09:55 PM - Edit history (1)
in a private sale.
Private sales in MA require a firearms license, and interstate sales without going through an FFL are against Federal law.
CokeMachine
(1,018 posts)I searched but could only find 25 rounds were fired by the perps. Maybe the 200 included what the LEOs fired as well -- they have hi-cap mags.
Thanks
cliffordu
(30,994 posts)There were 200 rounds fired altogether.
Travelman
(708 posts)And given that there were a dozen or more cops involved in this, 200 rounds can get spent very quickly indeed.
cliffordu
(30,994 posts)The cops, however, do.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)but lots of SWAT teams stick with semi-auto.
It's virtually guaranteed these two did not have fully automatic weapons unless they stole them from a cop.
cliffordu
(30,994 posts)But I might not know what one is.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Here's a Venn diagram:
Semi-automatics are legal for civilians to own. Fully automatics have been (for all practical purposes) illegal for civilians to own for 80 years. Assault weapons are a subclass of semi-automatics. In the army, you fired an assault rifle, which is a type of fully-automatic weapon.
(Incidentally, you "shoot" a target but "fire" a weapon.)
cliffordu
(30,994 posts)I got it now.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)I am telling you what the words you are using actually mean.
cliffordu
(30,994 posts)I stand in awe.
Response to cliffordu (Reply #116)
Recursion This message was self-deleted by its author.
Straw Man
(6,613 posts)We have a winner.
Yup. That's what "exchanged" means, folks.
Response to onehandle (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Straw Man
(6,613 posts)That's how many total shots were fired in the exchange of gunfire. Note the keyword.
B2G
(9,766 posts)Most of them, I would imagine.
Zax2me
(2,515 posts)One dead.
One in jail.
There won't be a next time for them but whatever they used the word fail applies.
premium
(3,731 posts)the over 200 rounds were police and terrorists combined with the police firing the majority of them.