Boy Scouts of America to ask ruling board’s permission to end gay ban

[Playinghardball]

A spokesperson for the Boy Scouts of America announced Friday that the group intends to drop its ban on openly gay members. According to Reuters, however, the Scouts’ ruling board must still vote in May whether to ratify the end of the discriminatory ban.

If the ruling goes through, said spokesperson Deron Smith, “no youth may be denied membership in the Boy Scouts of America on the basis of sexual orientation or preference alone.”

Smith said that the organization based its decision on months of careful research and discussion, and that the issue of LGBT inclusion is “among the most complex and challenging issues facing the BSA and society today.”

Boy Scouts of America has been caught in the crossfire between conservative corporate and religious sponsors who oppose the inclusion of gay scouts and rights groups and psychologists who insist that it’s the only fair course of action, to treat gay scouts equally.

According to the Associated Press, the Boy Scouts’ National Council consists of about 1,400 members and will meet in Texas on May 20.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/04/19/boy-scouts-of-america-to-ask-ruling-boards-permission-to-end-gay-ban/

[riderinthestorm]

1. Will retain the ban on gay leaders though and no atheists at any level.

Is this progress, I really don't know..

[d_r]

2. Last month I went to a round table

that was going to have the issue brought up. The district executive was speaking. The crowd was 99% homophobic right wingers. It was like a rush limbaugh show. I argued. My wife argued and almost cried. I argued more. I thought one guy was really going to have a heard attack right there. Another guy was shaking so hard he just wanted to hit me. A few people got pretty hot, a couple had a light come on. A couple of people told me or emailed me later that I wasn't the only one that felt the way I did and thanks for speaking up. And I will say - just for the DU record - that two other people that stood up in our council on our side where from catholic churches. That surprised me because I thought the Catholics were so against. But they did. They said that they thought the feeling in their churches was that all families should be reached out to. Another from a Lutheran Church and one from a Methodest church said that there churches were ready. But that was pretty much the only supporters out of the whole council meeting. But the reason I write this is to say that I don't know if folks here can understand that this really is progress. We are used to talking to people more like us. I am used to having to defend allowing our son be a cub scout - because he wants to be - and most people I know can't fathom why we would let him. That sort of thinking is beyond the imagination of the people who were at the fireside. They wouldn't be able to fathom it. Let's just say the "homosexual agenda" was brought up by many and NAMBLA by one. Yeah, somebody freaking brought up nambla. That's where we are at. That is what we are dealing with. So would this be progress? Yes it would. Is it fast enough? OF COURSE NOT. Everyone keeps saying it will change, give it time, and I always compare it to the all deliberate speed. I'm disappointed that this is so watered down. I'm pissed off about it. Pretty strongly. On the other hand, I feel like it will open up the door, next it will easy to argue "hey, you let this kid go all the way through Eagle Scout and now you tell him you don't want him involved once he earns it? You don't want that kind of leader?" But these right wingers will see that too - they will be afraid that it is an "in" and part of an "agenda" and they will fight it. I'm scared to death of putting it to a vote. I always come back to you can't let a majority vote on the rights of a minority. But the thing is, this is a private organization, it does have a majority of troops that are religious organizations with churches as their sponsoring organization. It is up to the members to vote their membership. That's why I argue if you want to change it do it from the inside by working and being a part and using logic and compassion and teaching rather than complaining from the outside. I really hope we've done it, I really hope that we win this. We're trying. I know from our point of view it is ludicrous that we would even have to try, but you have to remember that many of these folks do not share our world view on this.

ETA remember when the military was finally going to lift don't ask don't tell and people were so caught up on where are we going to take showers now? That's where we are at. At our camp we have separate facilities for boys, for girls, for men, for women, and there are some trying to figure out where gay folks are going to shower. OK, it is that stupid and absurd.

but on the flip side, this gets rid of the "let local chapters decide" and that is a good thing - there was already the concern of "will pack right-wing throw a fit about going to camp at the same time as pack left-wing because they won't know if the shower is safe to use without catching the gay." So that is a really good thing.

[riderinthestorm]

3. Thanks for your detailed response. They are a tax exempt org. The discrimination must stop

or they lose their status - retroactively and must pay for the years of discrimination during which they also got to keep those monies.

So yeah, I agree, they are private. But really, they're not until or unless they renounce their tax exemptions.

FWIW, I think "joining" in order to be on the inside to effect change is futile with groups like this. The Catholic Church is another example - the only thing that matters to them will be money. When enough people STOP belonging and donating, only then will there be a second thought about their despicable policies. But for as long as people continue to join and donate there's no incentive to change.

YMMV

[d_r]

5. I understand that rationale

and I agree with you. But not everyone shares our point of view, including the supreme court. So if ware going to change we are going to change from the inside. The outside pressure helps, it helps a lot, but on its own it will only be seen as interloping and cause the wagons to circle.

Its just my opinion, but I think its futile to complain about what somebody else wants to do with a group if you aren't willing to put in the time to work for the group. The scouts are like anything else in America, right wing people, left wing people, mostly just people and mostly good people. But even some of those "good people" may do things that are wrong because they just don't know any better. They may never have encountered anything but stereotypes so that is all they know. So if all the progressive people take their marbles and go home, then that just gives the organization over to the right wing people. They have the only voices left. There's a lot of good things about scouting - like any human organization it is sum of the people involved. I shouldn't just it up to chuckle heads and let them have it.

[Separation]

4. Glad you brought the military thing up.

I'm active duty 18 years. When the whole DADT was to end and anyone was able to serve openly I remember that the most noise came from 2 groups of people.

Retirees, older and set in their way, anyone who served after them has always had it easier.

People who never served. These people pissed me off the most. Showers, sleeping arrangements? Excuse me, but our gay and lesbian brother an sisters have been shitting, showering, and bleeding next to us for years. They just had to lie about it.

I have served proudly with several gay and lesbians, now I am proud to say that they can stand by me and I by them without them having to live a lie. I personally cannot think of any active duty members who were actually against this. If they were, they were a minority.

[d_r]

6. i'm glad you posted

I think it is the same with the scouts. There are some of the older folks really set in their ways. But not all of the older folks, by any means. Some of the older folks are the most open about it too. But most of the loudest voices within are the really set in the ways traditionalists. But once they announced it all of a sudden there was a lot of right wing flip out from the loud media voices, and they are the ones those set in their ways are drawn to and listen to.

ETA recently one of the people who will be voting in May asked me about the shower thing, did I think they would need to put in more shower facilities. It kind of gob smacked me, because it was an earnest question that just seemed so silly to me. So after I looked blank for a pause, I said "ok, let's think talk about it" and I tried to talk through why it doesn't change a thing or make a difference in the world. It only makes a difference for the homophobe.