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cali

(114,904 posts)
Fri Apr 19, 2013, 12:01 PM Apr 2013

should this, in any way, be connected to Chechnya, the ramifications are grave

<snip>

In recent years, however, the Kremlin and its regional proxies have been battling a different kind of enemy. This new generation of insurgents has an explicitly Islamist goal: to create a radical pan-Caucasian emirate ruled by Islamic law, a sort of Afghanistan under the Taliban. The movement's leader, Doku Umarov, unveiled this ambitious vision in 2007. He vowed to liberate not only Russia's Muslim North Caucasus but a large chunk of European Russia.

Over in the North Caucausus, meanwhile, the Kremlin is carrying out a brutal and rolling counter-insurgency campaign. Its focus is Dagestan, the neighbouring state to Chechnya, and now a hotbed of violent jihadist rebellion. Three weeks ago, Umarov appealed to Chechen fighters abroad to come home to take part in the fight.

<snip>

Odd or not, the Boston bombings play perfectly into the Kremlin's hands, ahead of Russia's 2014 Winter Olympics, to be hosted in Sochi, not far from where the current insurgency is raging. It reinforces Putin's claim – first made in 1999 – that his violent methods are justified to quell a ruthless rebellion by terrorists prepared to take innocent lives.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/apr/19/boston-bombing-link-chechnya-unprecedented

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should this, in any way, be connected to Chechnya, the ramifications are grave (Original Post) cali Apr 2013 OP
Right now, I aboslutly oppose U.S. involvement in a war in Chechnya... n/t Agnosticsherbet Apr 2013 #1
The Russian's don't need our help and I'm sure they dont want us there stevenleser Apr 2013 #14
Which has never stopped us before...under Bush we were involved in the former Russina Republics Agnosticsherbet Apr 2013 #23
We did this before Bush also Revanchist Apr 2013 #30
Excatly, so we really need to look at this as a dangerous time. Agnosticsherbet Apr 2013 #32
I think the government has been trying to see how much they could get away with Revanchist Apr 2013 #34
The Alex Jones fan club is going to have a field day with this RZM Apr 2013 #2
Chechnmate...... n/t oldhippydude Apr 2013 #5
good one nt. clarice Apr 2013 #16
Well, Putin has offered to help in dealing/searching for the bombers. n/t woodsprite Apr 2013 #3
I thought that was a little strange when he came out with that. Ganja Ninja Apr 2013 #17
My hunch, and it's just a hunch... CJCRANE Apr 2013 #4
Of course, no one knows what the Black Banners of Khurasan means. Common Sense Party Apr 2013 #7
It's a meme about the End Times / Armageddon. CJCRANE Apr 2013 #11
I know what it means, but don't understand it's relevance here. Xithras Apr 2013 #12
That's the point. It doesn't relate to Chechnya. CJCRANE Apr 2013 #13
The older brother posted a Black Flags of Khorasan video on YouTube LeftInTX Apr 2013 #35
The FSB has a history of using bombings for political purposes. Paul E Ester Apr 2013 #6
The brothers will probably become Chechyan heroes aint_no_life_nowhere Apr 2013 #8
Shariat Jamaat FarCenter Apr 2013 #9
Or, just as likely, nationalists who want to draw the US into a war. Robb Apr 2013 #10
Somewhere, someplace Vladimir Putin is grinning just a little bit... ellisonz Apr 2013 #15
I despise Putin and what Russia has become alarimer Apr 2013 #18
I think this is looking more and more Shankapotomus Apr 2013 #19
not the point I was making. My point is that for Chechens things will go from very cali Apr 2013 #20
Dramatic much? Cali_Democrat Apr 2013 #25
Why? Why do you think that? Rex Apr 2013 #26
I mean as an excuse for Putin to become even more iron handed. cali Apr 2013 #31
Ya I agree with you there, I worry about if he will use this as a 'mandate' Rex Apr 2013 #33
assuming that their ethnicity and/or nationality automatically makes them part of all that Enrique Apr 2013 #21
It's about Putin seizing on it to use ever more brutal tactics cali Apr 2013 #22
I understand what you are saying Cali and agree. Putin will use it as a club riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #24
yes. that is what I was saying. thanks. cali Apr 2013 #27
gosh, more speculation from the person who doesn't believe anything she hears. HiPointDem Apr 2013 #28
what are you babbling about, dear? cali Apr 2013 #29

Agnosticsherbet

(11,619 posts)
23. Which has never stopped us before...under Bush we were involved in the former Russina Republics
Fri Apr 19, 2013, 02:18 PM
Apr 2013

and even established bases to support the effort in Afghanistan. That was back when Republicans renamed french fries to "Freedom Fries." What's next, Changing "White Russians" to "Pale Patriots."

Agnosticsherbet

(11,619 posts)
32. Excatly, so we really need to look at this as a dangerous time.
Fri Apr 19, 2013, 02:43 PM
Apr 2013

I think the vigourous law enorcement solution we have used so far in this crisis is the best solution we have.

There will always be people that don't like us. We simply don't need to send the military to kill everyone that wants to do us harm.

Revanchist

(1,375 posts)
34. I think the government has been trying to see how much they could get away with
Fri Apr 19, 2013, 02:49 PM
Apr 2013

I think the government has been pushing the bar to see how much they can get away with since after WWII. Vietnam slowed it down for about a decade, but they've been pushing the boundaries since the 80s. I really don't see where it will stop since it's been escalating regardless of who we have in the White House.

 

RZM

(8,556 posts)
2. The Alex Jones fan club is going to have a field day with this
Fri Apr 19, 2013, 12:04 PM
Apr 2013

Obama and Putin! It's a conspiracy!

Ganja Ninja

(15,953 posts)
17. I thought that was a little strange when he came out with that.
Fri Apr 19, 2013, 12:43 PM
Apr 2013

Almost as if he knew what was going on and it wouldn't surprise me if he did. The Russians I'm sure monitor Chechen dissidents no matter where they go. They may know just who was pulling these guys strings.

CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
4. My hunch, and it's just a hunch...
Fri Apr 19, 2013, 12:06 PM
Apr 2013

is that this "Black Banners of Khurasan" meme/ideology has more to do with it.

It seems like a meme designed to attract hotheads/narcissists/fantasists.

Common Sense Party

(14,139 posts)
7. Of course, no one knows what the Black Banners of Khurasan means.
Fri Apr 19, 2013, 12:09 PM
Apr 2013

Care to explain your hunch so that it makes sense?

CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
11. It's a meme about the End Times / Armageddon.
Fri Apr 19, 2013, 12:15 PM
Apr 2013

I don't know much more about it than that. IMO it's just an excuse for idiots.

On edit: It's just as irrational as Heaven's Gate or any other millenial cult.

Xithras

(16,191 posts)
12. I know what it means, but don't understand it's relevance here.
Fri Apr 19, 2013, 12:24 PM
Apr 2013

The BFoC is an Islamic prophecy related by Mohammed and included in the Islamic Hadiths. It basically states that the Black Flags of Khorasan will one day march west with an Islamic Army across the Muslim world to Jerusalem. Mohammed instructed his followers to join the army when they see the flags, because that army will contain Al Mahdi and will unite the Muslim world, from Jerusalem eastward, into one Islamic nation. Basically, it's a prophecy about the final victory of Islam in that part of the world.

Khorasan was an ancient kingdom that included parts of eastern Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and some of the formerly Soviet 'stans to the north. This particular prophecy is part of the reason that there are so many extremists in Afghanistan and Pakistan, because many of them believe that THEY will eventually be responsible for uniting ALL Muslims into one giant Islamic state.

I have no clue how any of that relates to potentially Chechnyan terrorists though. Chechnya is nowhere near ancient Khorasan.

CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
13. That's the point. It doesn't relate to Chechnya.
Fri Apr 19, 2013, 12:27 PM
Apr 2013

These guys could have self-radicalized based on this meme, so it might have nothing to do with the politics of Chechnya.

 

Paul E Ester

(952 posts)
6. The FSB has a history of using bombings for political purposes.
Fri Apr 19, 2013, 12:09 PM
Apr 2013
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_apartment_bombings

Reporting on them has been a death sentence for many russian journalists and is said to be the reason for the London polonium poisoning.



aint_no_life_nowhere

(21,925 posts)
8. The brothers will probably become Chechyan heroes
Fri Apr 19, 2013, 12:11 PM
Apr 2013

I hope they manage to take the younger brother in alive and that they treat him with the same fairness any suspect should get in our system.

Robb

(39,665 posts)
10. Or, just as likely, nationalists who want to draw the US into a war.
Fri Apr 19, 2013, 12:14 PM
Apr 2013

I'm having trouble reconciling the photos of these guys, their coolness under fire, and their seeming idiocy about not wearing the simplest of disguises.

Time will out.

alarimer

(16,245 posts)
18. I despise Putin and what Russia has become
Fri Apr 19, 2013, 12:44 PM
Apr 2013

But we need to keep our noses out of that mess. There are no good actors there, just bad guys all around.

Shankapotomus

(4,840 posts)
19. I think this is looking more and more
Fri Apr 19, 2013, 12:46 PM
Apr 2013

like two disconnected youths, an Eric Harris-Dylan Klebold type of case of two young men angry at society trying to be connected to terrorists more than they actually were. It should be taken seriously and, with all the sensitivity and respect due the families of the victims but I don't see this as warranting anything further than the required action to bring it to a conclusion.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
20. not the point I was making. My point is that for Chechens things will go from very
Fri Apr 19, 2013, 12:47 PM
Apr 2013

bad to fucking unbelievably bad.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
26. Why? Why do you think that?
Fri Apr 19, 2013, 02:26 PM
Apr 2013

You mean Chechens in America? Somehow I fail to understand how this will hurt them here. You mean as in an excuse for Putin to become even more iron handed?

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
33. Ya I agree with you there, I worry about if he will use this as a 'mandate'
Fri Apr 19, 2013, 02:45 PM
Apr 2013

of some kind. He is under no obligation to follow any laws.

Enrique

(27,461 posts)
21. assuming that their ethnicity and/or nationality automatically makes them part of all that
Fri Apr 19, 2013, 12:50 PM
Apr 2013

which imo it does not.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
22. It's about Putin seizing on it to use ever more brutal tactics
Fri Apr 19, 2013, 12:52 PM
Apr 2013

and the older one associated himself with Chechen Islamic radicals.

 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
24. I understand what you are saying Cali and agree. Putin will use it as a club
Fri Apr 19, 2013, 02:21 PM
Apr 2013

well, as an even bigger club than he has been using on the region.



 

cali

(114,904 posts)
29. what are you babbling about, dear?
Fri Apr 19, 2013, 02:35 PM
Apr 2013

I was specifically referring to the messy reporting early on, about the bombing

you do seem to be a bitter thing. cheer up, hon!

Oh, and just for you:





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