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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI Want to Know If the Brothers Bought Their Guns Legally...
Come to America!
Buy any guns you want!!
Shoot some Americans!!
Because in America anyone can buy guns. Even, I'd guess, people on the terrorism lists. They can't fly but they can buy guns at a gun show.
onehandle
(51,122 posts)DonRedwood
(4,359 posts)I don't think they'll even blink over this...except to hate another group of people.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)They faced some of the strongest gun laws in the country
DonRedwood
(4,359 posts)Even if your state has laws....doesn't mean you can't drive a few hours to another one to get some guns and ammo.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)It is illegal to do that
DonRedwood
(4,359 posts)since they used them to murder people?
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Yes, they don't care that they were breaking the law. I agree.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)marions ghost
(19,841 posts)where did they get the guns?
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)DonRedwood
(4,359 posts)and drove back to Boston. Maybe stopped and had a picnic. Took some pictures of the scenery.
Gun laws as they currently are, mean guns are ALWAYS just a drive away.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)But murderers rarely care about that.
Crunchy Frog
(26,579 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)Before you snap, I'm on your side here. I would also like to make it more difficult.
Crunchy Frog
(26,579 posts)Consistently applied over the entire country, and with sanctions against people who transfer guns illegally.
And yes, I know that it won't stop every single instance of illegal gun purchase, but it's a starting point.
earthside
(6,960 posts)They been here for years and are/were legal residents.
One had/has a driver's license, but I don't even know if you need an ID to buy a gun in most states.
I don't think how they obtained their weapons is really going to be an important part of this story.
Except .... for the gun reactionaries who are already frothing at the mouth about how everyone in Boston would want an AR-15 with a hundred round magazine in their home to protect themselves from this guy.
Talk about exploitation and 'props' --- yup, the gun reactionaries are going to use these terrorists as 'props'.
DonRedwood
(4,359 posts)Oh. Sorry, I guess you just did that for them.
ag_dude
(562 posts)Of accusing the other side of dismissing things before the facts are known when you are here trying to speculate before the facts are known.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Which is how things should be. Anyone who isn't a member of a prohibited class, such as convicted felons, should be able to buy guns.
kelliekat44
(7,759 posts)slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Ban all guns, except those in the hands of government employees?
jpak
(41,757 posts)yup
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Did they use whatever are?
jpak
(41,757 posts)yup
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Those were all semis with detachable magazines: 0 intrinsic capacity
jpak
(41,757 posts)no grandfathering
yup
Recursion
(56,582 posts)You might be surprised.
Loudly
(2,436 posts)Gun commerce as a conduit for new product should be shut down.
FrodosPet
(5,169 posts)If the manufacture and sale of new guns was outlawed, the trade would go underground. And considering that the production of firearms goes back hundreds of years, it is not all that hard for someone with even a modest amount of metalworking equipment and knowledge to produce illegal guns.
Our only real chance at enforcement is to get over our distaste for warrantless search and seizure. The police must be allowed to search any building in search of CNC machines, metal lathes, and hard steel stock. Vocational schools should be required to turn over the names of students who take metal shop, and a database should be set up to track them.
Loudly
(2,436 posts)That would be such an improvement over our present indulgence of the mass-produced retail death trade.
Track down offenders and seize their plants like we do meth labs.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I don't think that recognizing a problem exists directly implies knowledge of a solution, much like many of us recognize (and are concerned with) that world over-consumption is a problem, yet are still grappling with many different solutions.
Though I would imagine that immediately after stating "I recognize that over-consumption is a problem" some trout-brained idiot who thinks he's clever will invariably ask "so... what's your solution?" and answer himself with his own reducto ad absurdum to pretend he's even more clever than he'd though ten minutes ago.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,181 posts)slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Tommy_Carcetti
(43,181 posts)slackmaster
(60,567 posts)...or in the country illegally, etc.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,181 posts)Gotcha.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)But that's the way things are, and the way things are going to be. It is our right, and like every other right there will always be people who misuse it.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,181 posts)Or, more specifically, 50 people's lives.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)...want to be unarmed.
Terrorists will always be able to get guns whether or not good people can.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,181 posts)What's your answer to that?
Is it a Rick Perry styled, "Oops?"
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Lock 'em up.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,181 posts)And if there are certain loopholes in policy or law that allow bad things to happen that can be closed, I'm more about closing those loopholes than just saying "Too bad, so sad," locking them up and claiming you've "solved" the problem.
What's the Einstein quote on insanity again?
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Tommy_Carcetti
(43,181 posts)Before you even respond, know that when the Senate cannot agree to pass a simple background check bill that 85%-90% of the population would have been fine with, my own solution would never pass.
Doesn't mean that I think it wouldn't work or doesn't make sense.
Cho, Holmes and Loughner had no business being allowed to purchase a gun. None whatsoever. That you so callously disregard that notion....well, that just speaks to who you are and I can only leave it at that.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Seriously. I think people making this out as easier than it is.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,181 posts)Just a hunch.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)And, seriously, I'm not just being an asshole. Who determined that? Can any college guidance counselor just decide with no review that this person can't buy a gun?
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,181 posts)You do agree that from reading reports, both Cho and Loughner showed clear indications of mental illness, correct?
Recursion
(56,582 posts)I think they showed signs of atypical affect.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,181 posts)"Tong Shan, a former friend and classmate of Loughner's, recalled observing significant changes in his attitude and demeanor a year prior to the shooting. Shan, who became friends with Loughner on the day of their high school graduation, said that they would often spend time together after class but lost touch after the semester ended. When they met again in mid-2010, Shan recalled that Loughner appeared, "Radically different. [...] From the way he was talking to me [online]... you can see. It was just questions and questions and random, weird questions that didn't go together," she said. "He wanted to know everything...he would just trip out." Recounting her early experiences with Loughner in light of the shooting, Shan said Loughner was "a good person that just somehow changed so much. I don't know what the hell happened to him.....In the months leading up to the shooting Laughner's parents became increasingly alarmed at their son's behavior at one point resorting to disabling his car every night in order to keep him home. At one point his father confiscated his son's shotgun and both urged him to get help......In the aftermath of the shooting, the Anti-Defamation League reviewed messages by Loughner, and concluded that there was a "disjointed theme that runs through Loughner's writings", which was a "distrust for and dislike of the government." It "manifested itself in various ways" for instance, in the belief that the government used the control of language and grammar to brainwash people, the notion that the government was creating "infinite currency" without the backing of gold and silver, or the assertion that NASA was faking spaceflights.[45]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sueng_Hui_Cho
"On December 13, 2005, Cho was found "mentally ill and in need of hospitalization" by New River Valley Community Services Board.[65] The physician who examined Cho noted that he had a flat affect and depressed mood, even though Cho "denied suicidal thoughts and did not acknowledge symptoms of a thought disorder."[65] Based on this mental health examination and because Cho was suspected of being "an imminent danger to himself or others", he was detained temporarily at Carilion St. Albans Behavioral Health Center in Radford, Virginia, pending a commitment hearing before the Montgomery County, Virginia district court.[65]
Virginia Special Justice Paul Barnett certified in an order that Cho "presented an imminent danger to himself as a result of mental illness," but instead recommended treatment for Cho as an outpatient. On December 14, 2005, Cho was released from the mental health facility after Judge Barnett ordered Cho to undergo mental health treatment on an outpatient basis,[66] with a directive for the "court-ordered [outpatient] to follow all recommended treatments." Since Cho underwent only a minimal psychiatric assessment,[65] the true diagnosis for Cho's mental health status remains unknown.
Virginia state law on mental health disqualifications to firearms purchases, however, is worded slightly differently from the federal statute. So the form that Virginia courts use to notify state police about a mental health disqualification addresses only the state criteria, which list two potential categories that would warrant notification to the state police: someone who was "involuntarily committed" or ruled mentally "incapacitated".[67]
Because Cho was not involuntarily committed to a mental health facility as an inpatient, he was still legally eligible to buy guns under Virginia law.[67] However, according to Virginia law, "A magistrate has the authority to issue a detention order upon a finding that a person is mentally ill and in need of hospitalization or treatment." The magistrate also must find that the person is an imminent danger to himself or others.[66][68] Virginia officials and other law experts have argued that, under United States federal law, Barnett's order meant that Cho had been "adjudicated as a mental defective" and was thus ineligible to purchase firearms under federal law; and that the state of Virginia erred in not enforcing the requirements of the federal law.[67]"
still_one
(92,174 posts)but that isn't the point of the legislation. It wasn't to stop all crime, it was to stop some, and provide a minimum reasonableness
but they vermin in congress could not even do that
People should have to pass a background check before they buy a gun from a dealer, from a gun show or off the internet.
Response to DonRedwood (Original post)
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cyberswede
(26,117 posts)DonRedwood
(4,359 posts)Or you just trolling for fun?
Response to DonRedwood (Reply #16)
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jpak
(41,757 posts)try again
yup
mercuryblues
(14,530 posts)talk about stoopid. I have 2 pressure cookers. One to can with and one to cook the best pot roast you will ever had.
As a matter of fact, when my father in law had my pot roast for the very first time his eyes leaked and a big sile appeared. He said and I quote.....
This roast is exactly like the ones my Mom used to make. It takes less than an hour to cook one and that is starting from the time I take the pressure cooker from the cabinet.
You can make a mean beef stew with them in 30 minutes.
So for your comment, would you like to delete it or let everyone know how IGNORANT you are?
Response to mercuryblues (Reply #33)
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mercuryblues
(14,530 posts)It looks like MIRT did you a favor.
Lurks Often
(5,455 posts)Under Massachusetts law only a LTC-A allows the purchase of a firearm, rifle, pistol or shotgun, that holds more then 10. A LTC-B allows the purchase a firearm, rifle, pistol or shotgun, that holds less then 10.
The police have not specified the firearms used. Given what I have heard about Mass it can be difficult to get the LTC-A in many towns, especially around Boston.
Massachusetts also requires paperwork to be down on ALL transfers, including gun shows and transfers can only be done to US citizens or permanent green card residents.
Leslie Valley
(310 posts)regarding the construction and deployment of IED's.
My DOG, the stupid here burns sometimes.
B2G
(9,766 posts)Daninmo
(119 posts)But I thought the bombs did the most damage. Aren't there very strict laws against bombs and murder? yea it's sarcasm...
Good grief I have more fear from terrorist with bombs and ricin.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)bike man
(620 posts)in which to transport the legally acquired supplies.
Come to America. Buy pots and pans and blow stuff up.
Travelman
(708 posts)...not citizens, last I heard, but that was about 7:30 this morning, and everything is still pretty fluid on this.
If that is indeed the case, then it's at least unlikely that they bought the guns legally. One has to declare being a resident alien on a form 4473 and then get special approval from the BATF in order to finalize the purchase. These are alleged to be scrutinized pretty closely, so I would suppose that there would be a lot of questions about someone from Chechnya buying a gun in the US.
The other kid, the one on the run, is 19, and therefore cannot legally possess a handgun.
Hubert Flottz
(37,726 posts)I'll bet they could have walked into any gun show in America and bought all they wanted, under the radar.
America has trashed the constitution with the "Patriot Act, but left the door wide open for terrorists to buy whatever they need, after they get into the country. A foreign terrorist can buy assault rifles at a gun show just as easily as a tea-bagger beckkker-head can.