The crazy always seems to run the fucking hen house. We have some corporate assholes who fucked up

[lonestarnot]

an entire town, but have martial law declared in a major city over two nutballs because they had in one case and have in the other weaponry. In one case we lock everybody down, in the other we don't appear to be looking too closely. EPA needs more inspectors. People need jobs. Train and hire. Where's the jobs Ickyleaker?

[sharp_stick]

1. Come on now, corporate assholes?

The fertilizer facility wasn't a plant or manufacturing site. It was a privately owned blending and distribution company that provided fertilizer for the local farmers. They had fewer than 10 employees and didn't make anything other than mixes of previously produced fertilizer products. Calling this corporate is like comparing the guy that cuts my lawn and plows the driveway to Monsanto.

And martial law declared? That's some really lame rhetoric there.

[CBGLuthier]

2. ignorant.

So damned ignorant that it actually hurts.

I am sitting here watching the coverage of the ceremony marking the 18th anniversary of the Murrah bombing, A TERRORIST ACT, and ignorant shit like this is spewing from more than a few here.

Those of you who can not tell the difference between willful killing of men, women and children vs. a fucking accident may just be too ignorant and BLINDED by BIAS to discuss this topic reasonably.

[lonestarnot]

4. And I call what happened in West just as bad if not fucking worse, because those corporate

motherfuckers won't even be charged with their bullshit. Ignorant is also my opinion of you thank you very much.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. Negligence can lead to criminal complains

Including manslaughter.

[lonestarnot]

7. And has anyone at BP, Haliburton or Clear whatever been indicted by criminal complaint?

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. I just told you what it is

And actually, yes, somebody from deep water was, mid level fish.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/16/business/energy-environment/in-bp-indictments-us-shifts-to-hold-individuals-accountable.html?_r=0

In practice same will happen here...and that s a problem with the law. We hold those in situ responsible, not those that create the permissive environment.

[lonestarnot]

16. Did someone go to jail for negligence?

[lonestarnot]

18. No, they plead, and agreed to pay $84 bil but I didn't read far enough to see if anyone

went to jail.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. A local supervisor

As I said, problem is local managers will go to jail, companies pay to avoid big fish and close investigations.

Same happened at the mine disaster.

This is about the size of the mine disaster company wise.

[lonestarnot]

24. Of course, the plebes are the ones that do the time.

[onenote]

8. You have a great crystal ball. Whose going to win the Stanley Cup?

I expect that if Adair Grain violated rules and those violations can be shown to have played a causal role in the explosion they certainly will be charged. And if it can be shown that they acted with an extreme reckless disregard for life, they could even be charged with second degree murder. That would be unlikely, but proving out such a case beyond a reasonable doubt is a high bar. But jail time would not be surprising. At least one official of Massey Energy is already serving time for criminal violations relating to the Massey mine disaster, another is awaiting sentencing in six months, and he has implicated in open court the company's CEO as a "co conspirator" and it is thought that the feds are preparing to move against the CEO in the not too distant future.

[lonestarnot]

10. Has anyone been charged for the 11 that died on BP's oil rig yet?

No not that I know of... but maybe you know something different.

[onenote]

12. Yes. Felony manslaughter. For someone who cares as much as you do, you don't pay much attention

http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2012/November/12-ag-1369.html

[lonestarnot]

14. And did they send anyone to jail?

[onenote]

15. They were just indicted in November. My apologies for the fact they actually get a trial

[lonestarnot]

19. They already plead.

[onenote]

20. link?

[lonestarnot]

23. Courtesy of Nadine

http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2012/November/12-ag-1369.html The plea may not have been entered yet, but they agreed to plead.

[onenote]

26. Nope. They entered not guilty pleas.

Not sure where you are getting your information, but its wrong. They entered not guilty pleas. The trials were originally set for earlier this year, but have been delayed (hardly unusual for a criminal case not to actually go to trial only two months after an indictment).
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-11-28/three-bp-managers-appear-in-court-to-answer-spill-charges-1-.html

[lonestarnot]

27. Nadine posted a link from the Justice Dept.

http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2012/November/12-ag-1369.html

[onenote]

29. Check the dates

BTW, I think I'm the one that posted that link not Nadine. But that's neither here nor there. The link is to announcement of the criminal indictments (or information) handed down against BP and the three individuals. As is clearly stated therein, simultaneous with the charges against BP a guilty plea was entered by the corporation and a $4 billion fine was levied. Separately, but as part of the same set of events, a 23 count indictment was handed down against the three supervisory officials. Again, this was on November 12. Two weeks later, the accused individuals made an appearance in court and entered not guilty pleas.

The trial has not yet been held, which is pretty much par for the course. Trials rarely start just a few weeks after an indictment is handed down.

[dgibby]

3. Please educate yourself re: martial law.

Martial law has NOT been declared in Boston or anywhere else. Obiviously, you do not know the definition of the term "Martial Law".

[lonestarnot]

5. I know the definition of martial law. Obviously you don't know me.

[onenote]

9. If you know the definition, why did you make such an obvious mistake?

Carelessness?

[lonestarnot]

13. It wasn't a mistake. It was intentional. House in place euphemism.

The new U.S. version.

[Bluenorthwest]

28. That's not Matial Law nor a euphemism for it. Let's say Martial Law had been declared

you'd still need to issue an order to stay inside, because martial law does not mean stay inside at all. Martial law means the military replaces civil authority. No such thing happened in Boston.
Martial law has been declared in the US in the past, including during the Watts riots, some strike situations, the entire territory of Hawaii for the duration of WW2....

[Hekate]

17. Crazies run the insane asylum. Foxes guard the henhouse. Oh, and that was not military (martial) law

Just a point or two of clarity.

I do agree with you that more government inspectors of all stripes are needed, as well as more funding for their agencies. This is where "starving the beast" gets us: unsafe poisonous living and working conditions.

[lonestarnot]

21. And kill the government and all their other bullshit.

[Hekate]

25. Let me count the ways I do not like Libertarianism or Anarchism. nt