As a side point, I'm waiting to see where they got their guns for the shootout

[Tom Rinaldo]

It is sad that people have to become symbols of something else for sane gun safety policy to have any chance of being enacted. Of course Sandy Hook was absolutely horrific, but we lost tens of thousands of innocents to guns every year before an elementary school massacre finally galvanized a new movement for gun safety. Now we have these two brothers, absolute terrorists in the eyes of all. Yes they used IED's to kill in Boston, but they obviously had semi-automatic weapons also. Two officers are down, one fatally. The FBI called them "armed and dangerous". How did they get their arms? Did they come from a licensed gun dealer? From a gun show? From the internet?

Sooner or later we will have people who everyone in politics agrees are full blown terrorists gunning down innocents with guns purchased without going through any background checks. Sooner or later they will use extended capacity ammo clips to hold off police during a fire fight to make a getaway. Maybe these brothers would have passed a background check. Maybe their gun magazines only held ten bullets each instead of 30 or a hundred. But the Public will not stand for it when they realize that real terrorists are killing Americans because of lax gun regulations.

[ejpoeta]

1. whatever the case is, the answer will be more guns.

[Tom Rinaldo]

3. The "usual suspects" will say so, yes

But I have never seen this much absolutely terrible press for the NRA in my lifetime. Bad press, OK yeah, but not this terrible. I think they have roused a force to oppose them that they have never had to contend with like this before. They used to be called fierce defenders of gun rights etc. now they are often called absolutely crazy. Things like terrorists buying guns won't go ignored and it won't be so easy for them to counter by scape goating "the mentally ill".

[Dreamer Tatum]

2. I bet that's the same thought going through the minds of people

laying in hospitals with stumps for legs.

[upaloopa]

4. My guess is that before last week these guys would have passed a background check.

It would be great if background checks could tell us that these guys would some day become terrorists but at this time our background checks are not fortune tellers.

[Tom Rinaldo]

5. I suspect you are right

But it may make more people think. What if one of those dreaded hell bent on destruction "Saudi nationals" sneaks into this country and goes to a gun show for arms?

Only a couple of months ago however there were many who hoped Congress would have passed bills limiting the size of ammo magazines however, or possibly even outlaw assault weapons. Those measures could make some difference even for those who can pass background checks.

[jpak]

6. How did they get their guns and ammo?

Easily.

and this attack will not change a thing.

yup

[Tom Rinaldo]

8. Yeah, other then cooking that is

being a bit sarcastic perhaps?

[Tom Rinaldo]

12. OK, here is a math problem for you then

How many Americans have been killed here over the last 50 years by pressure cookers used to make into bombs, and how many have been killed by guns? Steam technology that can routinely pose a public threat is regulated by the way. I know people who are rehabbing an old Steam locomotive. There are very precise standards that must be adhered to that are very difficult to comply with.

Nice straw argument by the way re: "banning guns". The Supreme Court has ruled that sensible regulations are constitutional. Unless you think we should legalize Tommy Guns and Rocket Powered Grenades for normal civilian use, of course.

[mikeysnot]

9. good luck with this.

[RC]

15. Do you have any idea of what the chemicals you have under the kitchen sink can do?

Just because something can be used for something not intended, does not mean they should be outlawed.
Maybe we should outlaw pipes because some people make bombs out of them also? 55 gallon drums?
Ban cars because they can be make into car bombs?
Pressure cookers are useful kitchen utensils. I grew up with them. They are not a problem.

[DetlefK]

11. Doesn't matter. "Legal" and "Illegal" can be turned into talking-points.

They got them legal: "You see, they bought them as law-abiding citizens."
They got them illegal: "If only we had a functioning ATF."

[Tom Rinaldo]

20. I honestly don't get the point you are making

Everything gets turned into talking points. That's what happens during public debates whenever people take sides on an issue. That is never a reason not to make a sound case for a position you believe in.

[DetlefK]

25. My point was your point ;-)

It doesn't matter where they got their guns from: It's bad either way that those guys were able to acquire guns.

[Hoops59]

13. Tom Rinaldo

Tom, the NRA is the lobby for gun makers. Background checks mean less gun sales. Follow the money. The NRA is on record Tom, "We do not see school shootings, and mass shootings as a bad thing, "we see it as a opportunity". The NRA is the lobby for gun makers, the scary black president is coming for your guns! Buy now!

[Tom Rinaldo]

16. I'm waiting for the web surfing profile software...

...to generate gun ads to my email account because I have used the word "Gun" more than x times in the last 3 days.

[Loudly]

14. Guns were the gateway. They cloud judgment with intoxicated empowerment.

[Tom Rinaldo]

17. Maybe yes for some. Me, I just think combat weapons are an efficient means...

...to kill lots of people.

[LuvNewcastle]

18. This is what they're going to say:

Mass. has some of the strongest gun laws in the country, but these guys still got guns for a shootout. Therefore, gun laws have no effect on gun crimes. Criminals will always be able to get guns.

[Tom Rinaldo]

19. They will. They will also say that background checks will lead to confiscation

From our standpoint it matters a whole lot less what they say than what we say. Their arguments have holes in them larger than a gun show loophole.

[sir pball]

21. You're about 15 years too late with that..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout

An inventory of the weapons used: An AR-15 converted to fire automatically with two 100-round Beta Magazines, a semiautomatic HK-91 rifle with several 30-round magazines, a Beretta 92FS Inox with several magazines, and three different AK-47 rifles converted to fire in fully automatic mode with several 75 to 100-round drum magazines, as well as 30 round box magazines. The two well-armored men had fired approximately 1,100 rounds

The political environment was far more amenable to gun control back then, and that incident still didn't change anything nationally.

[Tom Rinaldo]

22. Things happen in waves and nothing moves forward when the current goes against you but tides change

NOTHING happened when JFK was assassinated. It took RFK and others going down before a little got done. The Brady Bill didn't pass in the year after Brady was shot during the Reagan assassination attempt either. I think we are in the early stages of another sea change.

[smirkymonkey]

23. Let's hope so.

Things have got to change. This is out of control.

[sandmann]

24. On the bright side

If full blown terrorists start gunning down innocents with guns purchased without going through any background checks, we will know they didn't purchase them from a licensed gun dealer, from a gun show or off the internet. That would help narrow down the investigation a little.