General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHow is "Shelter in Place" any different than "Martial Law?"
Am I the only one who thinks that this new-ish term is really just a euphemism for martial law? The term being used is certainly more palatable and sounds benign.
J
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)NoodleyAppendage
(4,619 posts)Remember what happened to the two Hispanic women who were unlucky enough to be driving a pick-up truck similar to that being driven by the vigilante cop a month or so ago?
J
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)Which could be why they're telling people to stay off the streets.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)So wouldn't it be best to criticize law enforcement when they actually do fucked up shit like that as opposed to the good and professional way that Boston is handling things now?
Response to NoodleyAppendage (Reply #6)
11 Bravo This message was self-deleted by its author.
MadHound
(34,179 posts)My wife and I were discussing that this sounds like a kinder, gentler form of martial law.
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)Cal Carpenter
(4,959 posts)From the wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_law
Martial law is the imposition of military rule by military authorities over designated regions on an emergency basis.
Martial law is usually imposed on a temporary basis when the civilian government or civilian authorities fail to function effectively (e.g., maintain order and security, or provide essential services), when there are extensive riots and protests, or when the disobedience of the law becomes widespread.
In most of the cases, military forces are deployed to subdue the crowds, to secure government buildings and key or sensitive locations, and to maintain order.[1] Generally, military personnel replace civil authorities and perform some or all of their functions. In full-scale martial law, the highest-ranking military officer would take over, or be installed, as the military governor or as head of the government, thus removing all power from the previous executive, legislative, and judicial branches of government.[1]
randome
(34,845 posts)But thanks for putting it out there.
4Q2u2
(1,406 posts)I do not believe you get arrested for breaking Shelter in Place. It is a safety precaution. Martial law sets curfews and punishment for breaking AdHoc local mandates. Habeas Corpus is also suspended along with Due Process.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)Because quite frankly the only people complaining about how our police are handling this are people who don't live here.
NoodleyAppendage
(4,619 posts)...and what legal consequences are associated with such an order. Or, is it just a "suggestion?"
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)after his actions show he is quite willing to kill innocent people, cops, etc etc.
This is a small compact city with narrow winding streets, where people walk instead of drive, where school kids take public transportation to school.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)that you are an idiot if you go outside.
Arkana
(24,347 posts)Given Boston's structure, a lack of shelter-in-place would make the police's lives even harder, especially if there was another firefight like the one we saw last night.
Logical
(22,457 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)than you are seeking shelter elsewhere.
It's used when our office building (50+ stories) does fire/emergency drills.
NoodleyAppendage
(4,619 posts)Is "shelter in place" associated with any legal consequences should you choose not to follow it?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)Nope, not similar.
sharp_stick
(14,400 posts)good luck.
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)while people attempt to catch assholes who BLOW PEOPLE UP.
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)Boston Police warning people to take cover is public safety.
MadrasT
(7,237 posts)SoCalDem
(103,856 posts)People who do not evacuate an incoming hurricane are told to shelter in place..
It;s about getting innocents off the streets where they could get into a crossfire situation or cause police to waste time clearing them..
kelliekat44
(7,759 posts)folks looking for an excuse to slam authority for any damn reason at all.
NoodleyAppendage
(4,619 posts)For instance, could you be prosecuted for disobeying a "shelter in place" order/suggestion?
J
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)But it would be stupid...usually these orders are issued for good reason
randome
(34,845 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)I'm waiting for them to start blaming police for killing Tamerlin. They should have taken him alive for trial! It is Extrajudicial execution!
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)When there is a hurricane or snow storm in an area, the governor of said state with declare a weather state of emergency making it a fineable offense to be on the roads. Not only are you putting yourself in danger but first responders as well. So, they tell people to stay off the roads. What's the difference here? Oh, yeah, IEDs, hostages, kids could be killed.
FSogol
(45,357 posts)to investigate the bombing?
or
Response to NoodleyAppendage (Original post)
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pinto
(106,886 posts)Because risks to the public are clear, imminent and credible. The sequence of events supports that.
(aside) Just heard a report that the sweep has found a "significant" number of home made explosive devices in one house in Watertown (per CNN).
Response to pinto (Reply #31)
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Bragi
(7,650 posts)Floyd_Gondolli
(1,277 posts)Jeff In Milwaukee
(13,992 posts)Or maybe an "Amen" function or a "What S/he Said" function.
Jeebus.
ipfilter
(1,287 posts)is a term used in Government buildings since 9/11. Remember when Homeland Security told everyone to have duct tape and plastic to put over their windows? That's about when the term started being used during drills in Govt buildings.
Words have meaning and Shelter in Place means exactly what it says. It has absolutely nothing to do with Martial Law.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Whereas martial law you can be shot if you do not follow orders.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)It's a strong suggestion for obvious safety reasons when there are pollutants spewing out of a refinery. Unless some agency has DEMANDED that everyone stay in side, that's what it is-- just a suggestion. There are a few people out and about; there are some businesses that are open.
What IS a demand is that no cars can enter the cordoned-off zone.
Arkana
(24,347 posts)It does not mean "WE ARE GOING TO KICK EVERY MOTHERFUCKING LAST DOOR DOWN AND KILL EVERYONE WE SEE UNTIL WE FIND THIS MOTHERFUCKER."
Christ, the conspiracy theorists are out in full force today.
jpak
(41,742 posts)It's called common sense public safety.
ugh
WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)Period.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)"This Is What Martial Law Looks Like"
No, I'm not linking to his piece of shit site.
Edit: Bobbie Jo beat me to it.
Sid
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)That is the easy definition.
Shelter in Place is a term that is international and has been around for at least four decades.
It might be new to you. Other situations when a shelter in place might be issued, remember the fire at a NorCal refinery last year? Due to air quality, the order was issued.
Zoeisright
(8,339 posts)This is reality.
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)of time in the Shah's final grasp to hold power. Believe me that Bostonians are not experiencing martial law.
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)Martial Law = "I will arrest or shoot you if I see you."
Hekate
(90,189 posts)malaise
(267,816 posts)La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)stay at home while we hunt a terrorist is a huge way away from martial law
cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)People are, in the main, authoritarian stooges who get very very excited by big statist displays with fancy trucks and such.
But partisans only get half the fun because they don't enjoy that stuff whenever the other side is in power.
So a lot of folks missed out on the thrill of being a simple-minded flag-waver under Bush and are making up for lost time.
And they get VERY upset when you point any of this out.
Hence a difference that would have been FUCKING COMICAL under Bush is SUPER OMG DEFINITIVE today.
And you will have it explained to you, at length, how shutting down an entire transit system is not really a limitation on travel and such, and the state telling people to do X is of no concern as long as the state is not actually gunning people down for not doing X.
Bragi
(7,650 posts)The bombings were terrible, and the perps are evil, but I fear this incident answers the question of whether ordinary Americans could ever be convinced to support, or at least comply with, a forcible takeover of their communities by armed government forces.
haele
(12,581 posts)The "Shelter in Place" notification is given when your only way to get out and about is potentially more dangerous than staying in place or "sheltering" and hoping the authorities (fire department, police, National Guard) can get you out or secure the area your home/shelter is at before the danger can get to you.
We also had a "Shelter in Place" alert when that ex-cop Dorner was suspected of being in the area; pretty much common sense.
But there's nothing keeping you from going out and doing stuff when that alert is made. It's not Martial Law where you can either be jailed or shot on sight for being out.
At most, you'll get stopped and questioned if the authorities see you.
Haele