Chechen refugees - legal residents - changed to Kyrgyzstan

[malaise]

WTF!!!!

Legal permanent resident

[Recovered Repug]

1. According to AP, Suspect #2 Dzhokhar A. Tsarnaev.

[Lex]

2. So much for the Teabaggers frothing at the mouth for Middle Easterners. nt

[ChangeUp106]

3. It's not two guys from rural Alabama

This is good enough for them

[Lex]

4. Will probably at least confuse them for awhile.

Oh, wait.

[Heidi]

6. !!!

Will probably at least confuse them for awhile. Oh, wait.

Mornin', Lex, and thanks for that!

[malaise]

7. Two fucking amateurs

Robbing a fucking 7/11 - clearly spent too much time watching movies.

[marions ghost]

22. how stupid

not a well thought out escape plan.

Young and very stupid sociopaths from a war torn background. I hope that is the whole story....

[malaise]

24. Well given their ages one or both may have been rejected/expelled

from some college or university. Could be personal - but they really are stupid

[marions ghost]

34. that's a good theory

wonder how they got permanent legal residency...

[JCMach1]

9. Most Chechnyans are Muslim... a number have also worked with Al Quaeda over the years...

[Recursion]

12. Central Asia is very nearly the middle east.

Kind of six of one half a dozen of the other, there.

[CJCRANE]

44. IMO they're different, like Mexico is different from the USA, which is different from Canada nt

[cali]

15. Not Middle Easterners but they don't care where Muslims are from

they're going even more nuts. Most Chechnyans are Sunnis and there are lots al Qaeda links to Chechnya. Of course we don't know that they're Muslim, let alone have ANY connection to any organized group, but that won't stop them.

[aristocles]

5. The predominant religion in Chechnya is Islam.

[JCMach1]

11. Exactly...

[MOTRDemocrat]

8. This will reshape the immigration debate, possibly gun debate as well. nt

[malaise]

10. Something is seriously wrong when anyone can buy all these weapons n/t

[marions ghost]

23. ditto

----------

[pampango]

42. Indeed. Mother Jones: "Tea Party Smells Blood In Immigration Fight"

Glenn Thrush and Reid Epstein report on one of the reasons that gun legislation failed in the Senate yesterday:

In the end, [] moderates and conservatives in the upper chamber said they simply couldn’t deal with a flurry of progressive issues at once — from gay marriage to immigration to guns....One senator told a White House official that it was “Guns, gays and immigration — it’s too much. I can be with you on one or two of them, but not all three.”

Some are taking this to suggest that voting against the gun bill gives conservatives a little more room to maneuver on immigration. So the silver lining here is that all the no votes on guns might mean a few more yes votes on immigration. Ed Kilgore is skeptical:

I wouldn't put much reliance on the idea that the demise of Manchin-Toomey is a blessing in disguise for progressives or for those still pining for a "bipartisan breeze" in Washington. For one thing, to continue the propitiation metaphor, the "base" is a jealous god, which views every act of ideological "betrayal" as sufficient to justify primary excommunication or primary challenges. For another, this fresh demonstration that "the base" has the power to compel party discipline on guns (only three Republicans joined former Club for Growth president Pat Toomey in the end) will make the desire to impose it on other subjects seem much more practicable. And third, to focus on the next issue coming up in the Senate, it's never been clear to me that the obsessive desire to find a way to detoxify the GOP among Latino voters--which is the elite factor driving the interest of Beltway Republicans in immigration reform--is shared that widely among hard-core conservative activists, who are more likely to think that insufficient ideological rigor continues to be the party's biggest problem.

The same is true of the tea partiers. Winning produces energy, not apathy. Having smelled victory in the gun fight, they're now even more determined that they can win the immigration fight too. This was always going to be a very tight battle, and so far nothing has changed that.

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2013/04/tea-party-smells-blood-immigration-fight

[alcibiades_mystery]

13. Ufffda! Now we'll have to hear Putin weigh in

[malaise]

16. Yep these are Russians

2nd Cold War???

[aristocles]

18. Chechnyans are not ethnically Russian

[malaise]

20. and Europeans are not ethnically African

but I can bet you they have Russian passports and are Russian citizens

[alcibiades_mystery]

19. They're Chechen Muslims

Putin specialized in putting these people to heel. They, in turn, specialized in blowing shit up in Moscow and elsewhere. Most Russians would laugh to hear somebody named Djhokar Tsarnaev described as Russian.

[malaise]

21. What passport do they have? n/t

[alcibiades_mystery]

28. Good point

Conceded: they have Russian Federation passports. Ethnic issues in the RF are a bit more complicated than that, though, right?

[malaise]

29. That's my only point

I know about the ethnic problems in that region

[Fawke Em]

33. Haven't heard that.

They could be Orthodox or nothing.

Bbl 3Haete, 4to Bbl robopute?

(My husband speaks Russian.)

[Brickbat]

27. They would not consider themselves Russians.

And Russians would not consider them Russians.

[cali]

30. what? No.

Chechnyans are overwhelmingly Sunni Muslim. There are long standing links to al Qaeda. Now that doesn't mean that they are Muslim or that they have any connection to al Qaeda or any other group, but it surely can't be ruled out.

[alcibiades_mystery]

31. They have Muslim names

They are at the least of Islamic heritage. Just as somebody named "Rachel Cohen" is almost certainly of Jewish heritage, the name Djhokar Tsarnaev signifies Muslim.

[malaise]

36. Official- they are from Kyrgyzstan

moved to the US with family in 2002.

[CJCRANE]

45. There are ethnic Russians in other nearby countries

but it seems that their family specifically identifies as Chechen.

[geomon666]

57. What about the Russian expert, Sarah Palin?

This is a golden opportunity to lend her unique insights.

[treestar]

14. That means plenty of background checks were done on them

Either they had no previous record or the background checks are ineffective.

[malaise]

17. I'm betting on no background checks

[marions ghost]

25. ditto again

----------

[malaise]

26. LOL

[aristocles]

32. All non US persons entering the US through Customs

have their personal information recorded in a database, including their passport photos.

The Feds used face recognition technology to match the marathon images to their passport photos.

[malaise]

35. The dead one's photo

from
http://vk.com/id160300242

[Honeycombe8]

37. Older dead one said he didn't understand Americans. Are they not required to attend classes

such as those that people who want to be citizens have to attend? On the history of the country, etc.?

[malaise]

38. Understanding a people and culture

has little to do with the citizen classes.

[Honeycombe8]

39. It's a good start, IMO. Learning that we're a melting pot...

that we don't have a religious government that rules us, freedoms of the individuals, by the people and for the people, etc. It is very different from where these guys came from, so would help them know, for instance, that what they may see as arrogance is merely individualism in a society that celebrates the rights of the individual, even when the masses disagree with him.

The Middle Easterners that kill their daughters for becoming westernized could also benefit from a few of those classes.

[malaise]

41. I don't think you understand the mentality of some of the people who want citizenship

Some of them merely want the security of citizenship and never ever attempt to adjust or fit in.

[Honeycombe8]

46. Oh, I get it. It's all about money. It's always about money. Still, it'd help.

If I move to Italy as a permanent resident, like these guys were, and I were required to take an hour class once a week on Italian culture, history, and government, and that goes on for six months....I'd walk away understanding a little better the Italian people.

[malaise]

47. That's because you're actually interested in learning

There are people on university campuses who supposedly are reading for degrees, but they want certification for perceived financial gain and have no interest in their own education.

[Honeycombe8]

50. I disagree. You can't help but form a little understanding when forced to sit and listen

and take tests on a subject. You might not learn much, but you learn something.

[malaise]

52. I've been an educator for decades and believe me

some students learn absolutely nothing. In fact if they could obtain a fast food degree in a drive through, they'd be perfectly happy. Others are willing to cheat or buy the certificate.

I accept that there are some who initially just want the degree and suddenly wake up to the idea of knowledge.

[CJCRANE]

43. I assume that Chechen is an ethnicity like Irish or Cuban for example...

You don't need to be born in that country to claim that heritage, it's based on your ancestors.

[malaise]

48. True but we didn't really know their heritage until the uncle spoke

and even now I'm not sure since we were told that the father is Russian

[CJCRANE]

58. It's a mixed up world...nationality, ethnicity, heritage, race, culture, language...

The world is a melting pot these days.

You could have a guy who was born in Argentina of an ethnic Chinese father and an ethnic Lebanese mother, speaks Spanish and listens to K-Pop.

It sounds unlikely but there are more and more people like that these days.

But I agree with my anarchist friend who always says: "there's only one race - the human race".

[KharmaTrain]

49. Yep...Political Refugees...

If any teabagger yelps (and, yes, I've already caught this on facebook) about lax borders, kindly remind them that the Tsarnaevs were admitted to the U.S. in 2002 as POLITICAL refugees...not unlike Cubans...and then became naturalized American citizens in 2007. Now what does Barack Obama have to do with any of this...especially since he wasn't even in the federal government in 2002. Just watch the head spin...

As usual, our myopic media only views the world in "how it affects the U.S."...the media "American Exceptionalism" that pays little heed to conflicts in the rest of the world unless an American is involved. While Tsarnaev is of Chechen origin, and I wouldn't be surprised if we learn that he and his brother had sympathies for their native land, I'll wait to see if that's offered up for a defense.

Another irony of this whole situation was those with guns...the MIT security guard in specific...ended up as an unfortunate victim while the guy who had his Mercedes SUV hijacked and was held hostage...he was unarmed and was let go unharmed. Wanna bet if he had been packing and dared to pull the gun to "protect" himself we'd have one more funeral to deal with.

[malaise]

51. And did you notice that the goons with their AR15s stayed indoors

and did not take on the wicked government

[KharmaTrain]

53. Thank Goodness...

...and I'm betting there were a couple teabaggers in the crowds applauding the police as they were on their way out of town. On the other hand I saw some who were screaming "Police State"...I don't think the folks in Watertown felt that way...

[malaise]

54. Well I did worry about the precedent of locking down towns and cities

in terms of the erosion of civil liberties

[KharmaTrain]

55. Civil Defense Vs. Civil Liberties...

...I'd bet WillPitt would say that his civil liberties were severely eroded while two murderers were loose in his area and were likely to shoot first and foremost. There's the balance we have to live with to operate in an open (note I don't use the word "free&quot society and with the advent of bigger and better weaponry, so goes bigger and better responses to it. I'm very curious to find out how the Tsarnaevs got their arsenal and if it was done "legally"...

[malaise]

56. WillPitt disagreed with me

big time

[KharmaTrain]

59. I Think It's A "You Had To Have Been There"...

...a couple years ago we had a felon who overpowered a bunch of cops at a local courthouse and spent the next 36 hours on the lam...robbing banks and holding people hostage all over the area. At one point he was sighted about a half mile from my house...got all sorts of warning calls from local authorities and saw/heard helicopters flying overhead. I'll admit I was frightened and sure wasn't gonna go out until the all clear was sounded. They eventually captured the perp but while he was loose it affected a lot of people and I'll say a strong show of force by local authorities was comforting. Now...if I saw that same type of response (which I did) at a political protest...then we have a lot of common ground to agree on...

[malaise]

60. Well to the extent that there were IEDs found elsewhere they may have done the right thing

but like several articles note today it did give a 19 year old amateur way too much control.
The good news for everyone is that the boat owner went outside to smoke a cigarette when they lifted the shelter whatever.

We'll never know if he would have gone outside for an early morning smoke and found him much earlier. I think his wife is the hero for not allowing smoking indoors