If these guys were part of an organized jihadist group, wouldn't you think they'd have money

[BainsBane]

Last edited Fri Apr 19, 2013, 10:22 AM - Edit history (1)

To get out of town instead of having to hijack a car and rob a 7/11?
Why wouldn't they have left town right after the bombing?

Edit: As a point of clarification, I wrote this OP last night before anyone knew who these guys were.

[elleng]

1. Yes, probably.

Appears they were not at all prepared for the 'afterwards.'

Not consistent with a NBC's reporting that they arrived from out of U.S. about 1 year ago.

[BainsBane]

2. They look like students

I hope they get the other guy alive so we find out what their motives were.

[kenny blankenship]

3. They are not 10 feet tall with 200 pt. IQs

[BainsBane]

4. That's irrelevant

If they were connected with a foreign terrorist organization, they would have had funds to leave town. I suppose it's possible they were meant to be suicide bombers but those usually wear bombs strapped to their chests.

[Erose999]

17. Wasn't Boston's airspace shut down after the bombing? Perhaps their flight got cancelled?

[BainsBane]

18. I just woke up so I'm at a disadvantage here

but its looking to me like this thing was planned by 19 year olds.

[AnalystInParadise]

39. Why?

would they have had funds to leave town? I think they are 2nd tier terrorists. Meaning they are trusted to plan and execute an op, but they are also expendable. Honestly they are probably radicalized and inspired to conduct attacks, not truly members of a global organization.

However, most members of global terror groups were at one point small time terrorists in a regional or even local based terror groups or insurgent cells. Zarqawi was a two bit foot soldier who rose to command large parts of AQI until his death. The guys in ASG in the Phillippines have risen into AQ due to their successful work at the ASG level. They weren't given money or other forms of support to get the job done, they just did what they could and when noticed received a promotion. Americans seem to view terror groups as these entities that can self fund at will and always have a plan for their members to escape after an attack. Sometimes pawns are sacrificed just to remind the enemy that a terror group is still relevant. And these guys are definitely pawns, useful in causing casualties but not really relevant to the larger group (if they are part of one). A terrorist is concerned with mission completion, escape is desired but not required. As a result many terrorists and insurgents do not plan ahead. Why plan ahead if your mission is only this?

[BainsBane]

41. I agree it looks like that now

but I wrote this OP six hours ago

[bluedigger]

5. I think they were freelancers.

If one of them was the missing Brown student he had access to money before he went missing. But they didn't have a plan for escape or false ID's to buy a vehicle. I think the foreigner connection is a red herring. Or they had a support network to provide them with weapons, but no escape plan. Doesn't make much sense, any way you look at it. Maybe the dead suspect was foreign, and co-opted the other guy...

[freshwest]

6. Deval said Monday afternoon flights were grounded and road being watched. May have had something to

do with it. Also, bomber who looked Jeff Bauman the face as he set the bomb bag in front of him likely expected him to die from the blast which happened right after.

Instead, he lived and identified the faces in the hospital. Killers don't always get away with their crimes. So they had to take extra measures to try to get away, probably.

[BainsBane]

7. Mika just said they drove, chased by police,

From Cambridge to Watertown and threw bombs out of the car window along the drive.

[freshwest]

8. I just got a message that Boston bus and subway is shut down while they go after the one guy now.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

9. Seriously false assumption about islam on your part

If they were part of a larger conspiracy plot maybe. Self starters, not so much

Note that all muslims are called to jihad

[BainsBane]

10. What?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

15. For someone who has previously claimed to be knowledgeable about islam your comment was at

best an ignorant slur. I was just pointing it out politely.

[BainsBane]

19. My point wasn't about Muslims in general

My point was about Jihadi terrorists. Yours is just weird.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

22. Then maybe you should clarify your post because as it stands...

If I thought it was you, I would have said so.

[BainsBane]

26. yours was the one someone alerted on

And Al Qaeda refers to themselves as jihadists. Obviously I know the term has broader meanings. I wrote this OP hours ago before the identity or nationality of these guys was know. I don't claim any great knowledge of Muslims, but I did point out how some of your own prior statements months ago were problematic.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

33. And it passed since many here actually understand that words have meaning

[BainsBane]

37. this is going no where

like any other conversation we have tried to have. I would prefer not to continue.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

40. Then clean up or delete the OP

Yours was a very ugly statement

[BainsBane]

42. I find your thought process bizarre

You think it's a comment about Muslims in general because that is how you think. I did not say that, and no one else has taken it that way. I'm done talking about this with you.

[aikoaiko]

11. Jury Results

Some DUers needed more of an explanation of your last sentence.

At Fri Apr 19, 2013, 09:25 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Seriously false assumption about islam on your part
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2708763

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

"All Muslims"? Hide this bigoted crap.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Apr 19, 2013, 09:33 AM, and the Jury voted 2-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Note to alerter: called doesn't mean participating. My guess is 99% of all Muslims want nothing to do with violence.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Apparently the alerter didn't read the post correctly. It is pro-Muslim and anti-stereotyping.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Alerting DUer doesn't know what "jihad" is. It means struggle; and yes, all Muslims are called to struggle for their faith. It's a central tenet of Islam. I think Muhammad had things in mind like enduring the long trip to Makkah, fasting during Ramadan, and purging sins from your character. In that sense, terrorism isn't really jihad. I'm not sure if ProgProf knows this, but what he wrote is factually accurate.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: I think it was a typo, and was suppse to say NOT all Muslims. NOTE should be NOT!!!!! Just an error and no one asked that question.


Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT and said: Quite the bigoted statement. This is a progressive liberal website. Do not want this as a community standard.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

14. Not unexpected, and I know who did it.

Jihad is a religious duty of muslims. It means struggle for the faith. It does not necessarily mean armed attacks on dhimmis or non-believers, or anyone else.

The OP used the term "jihadist", which is a best ignorant, but normally a slur. I was pointing that out to them. Perhaps I was not clear enough. They have previously claimed all sorts of knowledge about islam. Clearly not so much.

The two in the news may or may not have been doing this for religious reasons, as part of their personal jihad (or struggle), but that does not make them part of a larger plot that the OP intimated. It also does not mean that all jihadists (an offensive term by itself) are involved in violent conspiracies.

The OP is quite bigoted in terms and mindset. I was just pointing that out politely.

[BainsBane]

20. well if you're thinking me, you're wrong

I just woke up, and your accusation about me is absurd.

[snooper2]

23. You are right, that's one interpretation

LOL...

We going to have to start busting out some videos here next?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

25. I am sure the OP can find the video "Jihadi Girl" on youtube somewhere

[snooper2]

29. didn't know you were into that type of music

The Cassandra Complex - Jihad Girl

[ProgressiveProfessor]

43. It was a different clip I was thinking of

[hobbit709]

36. Next jury results 1-5 LEAVE IT.

Somebody had a hissy fit.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

Calling Bainsbane a bigot.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Apr 19, 2013, 10:06 AM, and the Jury voted 1-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: The alerter needs to grow a thicker skin.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: Personal insult. Hide.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: The poster was commenting upon the behavior, less than calling someone a name. The response was reasoned and informative and added to the overall discussion.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Calling a statement bigoted is NOT the same as clling the poster a bigot.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: If you say bigoted things that tends to happen. Alert on your buddy/self, or whatever incarnation of you is making this alert.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

45. I chose my words carefully since words have meaning

[BainsBane]

38. that second one I did send

because you called me a bigot. You are the one who seems to think the fact they might have been Muslim (since I wrote this before they were identified) was relevant. I do not. I was thinking of terrorist organization.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

44. Words have meaning.

You need to understand them before you use them. How does the term jihadist not mean muslims?

You might also want to check out this post: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022707080#post32

[BainsBane]

46. You assume it means all Muslims

which is a product of your own views of Islam, which you've stated quite clearly:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=65633


Moreover, your principal complaint seems to be I did not indict all Muslims, in keeping which your statement in the link above about how Islam is supposedly "bad news." (Not terrorist organizations, as my OP mentions, but Islam itself). Words do indeed have meaning, and since you choose yours so carefully, we can all see exactly what your views on a large swatch of the world's population are.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

49. He's gotten quite a few posts deleted for doing the same thing he accuses you of. I have a long

memory.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

48. Perhaps you should take your own advice:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022395353#post1

[bushisanidiot]

12. That's what makes me think they weren't the planners of this fiasco

It's possible that they were the one's who placed the bombs and didn't make them or plan the incident.
perhaps they were supposed to pick up their money afterwards and they didn't get their money.

[kentuck]

13. These guys were terrorists but...

I don't think they were al Qaeda.

[boston bean]

16. They don't care about the after, they care about the afterlife. nt

[BainsBane]

24. I don't think we know enough right now

I wrote this long before they knew they were Chechnyans.

[geek tragedy]

21. Jihadists can be freelancers. nt

[BainsBane]

27. or these could be kids with a grudge

because it looks to me like they screwed it up royalty in terms of their escape.

[geek tragedy]

28. Terrorists typically don't think things through to their logical conclusion.

That's why they become terrorists.

[BainsBane]

31. Mind you I wrote this before they were identified

and knew they were Chechnyan, but I was questioning if they were part of some Al Qaeda type conspiracy because they didn't seem to be acting that way.

[geek tragedy]

34. I never thought AQ--body count was too low for one. nt

[alcibiades_mystery]

30. al Qaeda freelancers

Why is the loose structure of al Qaeda so hard for people to understand?

[BainsBane]

35. they also have training

and procedures, and this looks like a clusterfuck to me. Looks to me like these kids planned it on their own. Mind you I have no expertise on the subject. I'm guessing, aka bullshitting, like everyone else around here.

[Zorra]

32. No.

Definition of JIHAD
1
: a holy war waged on behalf of Islam as a religious duty; also : a personal struggle in devotion to Islam especially involving spiritual discipline
2
: a crusade for a principle or belief

Definition of JIHADIST
: a Muslim who advocates or participates in a jihad

[smirkymonkey]

47. Good point. Thanks!