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Unequal Relationship (Original Post) struggle4progress Apr 2013 OP
You just blew my mind; that doesn't happen often. & Why would evolution do such a thing? patrice Apr 2013 #1
How about infinite possiblities? That much DNA is needed to create all varieties. freshwest Apr 2013 #3
It is kind of interesting that, model-wise, the female DNA is more conserved, right? 'cause she patrice Apr 2013 #5
We all have 22 pairs of chromosomes, plus either a pair of X's or an X and a Y jeff47 Apr 2013 #10
I've read unfortunately drafted arguments that male DNA is missing something - that other 'leg' . freshwest Apr 2013 #13
Freshwest. timdog44 Apr 2013 #14
I hadn't had my coffee and that was very mangled. Sorry. freshwest Apr 2013 #15
Well, I will try not to PUI. timdog44 Apr 2013 #16
Hey, I edited that post. Go back up and enjoy some more crazy stuff! freshwest Apr 2013 #17
Now. timdog44 Apr 2013 #18
Talking on the internet is not making a pass at anyone. Bye. freshwest Apr 2013 #19
Not sure timdog44 Apr 2013 #20
There's 3 leading theories about the non-coding regions jeff47 Apr 2013 #6
I vote #3. timdog44 Apr 2013 #8
Thank you! Yeah, eukaryotes are pretty interesting. patrice Apr 2013 #9
You need variation to try new things out. jeff47 Apr 2013 #11
"not sacrificing as much"? Alrighty then.... Triana Apr 2013 #2
The only information content I need to provide is Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2013 #4
+1 + either please try not to fart too close to me, or do SOMETHING!! about his GI tract. patrice Apr 2013 #7
Honey? Is that you? 11 Bravo Apr 2013 #12

patrice

(47,992 posts)
1. You just blew my mind; that doesn't happen often. & Why would evolution do such a thing?
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 03:45 PM
Apr 2013

I know, pure speculation, but I can come up with a couple of ideas anyway, the most obvious of which is that humans aren't as important as we think we are, otherwise, the system would conserve all of that data better.

Which means: if we aren't important to the system, we have to create our own significance im - mediately (without mediation), which raises the question of what purpose, evolutionary or otherwise, that fact might implement.

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
3. How about infinite possiblities? That much DNA is needed to create all varieties.
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 03:55 PM
Apr 2013

And how many of those will be wasted anyway?

Still, send his smart ass to the couch. Or better yet, the dog house.

Or just arrest him for taking advantage of Five-Finger-Sally. You know he did it. Life in prison for each sperm.

I apologize to all decent men. I love you guys. This carticature of masculinity, not so much...



patrice

(47,992 posts)
5. It is kind of interesting that, model-wise, the female DNA is more conserved, right? 'cause she
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 04:09 PM
Apr 2013

has only one type of chromosome, the X, while males have X and Y, thus determining the sex of the offspring, while also being associated with a high degree of ir-relevance???

NO expert here; perhaps someone will tell us more.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
10. We all have 22 pairs of chromosomes, plus either a pair of X's or an X and a Y
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 04:30 PM
Apr 2013
http://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/handbook/basics/howmanychromosomes for more info

So there really isn't much of a "conserved" argument to make between genders....aside from the fact that "conserved" can be defined in a lot of different ways.

The X is a "normal" chromosome - it contains a lot of genes for run-of-the-mill stuff that all people have.
The Y has the genes to create testicles, which then turn a human into a man via hormones.

Aside from this, the Y does have few other genes on it. Such as the genes for extra ear and nose hair. None of the genes on the Y can be necessary, since women don't have one.

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
13. I've read unfortunately drafted arguments that male DNA is missing something - that other 'leg' .
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 04:41 PM
Apr 2013

Last edited Thu Apr 18, 2013, 08:45 PM - Edit history (1)

I wonder if the religious minded are trying to work this into their Free Will doctrine. Only sperm that really wanted to make human beings make it to the egg unless the woman's egg resists - but from what I've read, it's an electrical event that may work out voluntarily. I'm sure that is not a valid biological argument, and we don't need to get so detailed.

Still it will be called the woman's fault, since Eve, everything is. Oh, what an irresponsible myth Adam began by saying in essence 'The woman, (devil) made me do it.' Same argument of every rapist, huh.

Simplistic, true, and I think that all arguments of the powerful or for the powerful are simply a desire for security. It's why people often gravitate to the right, no matter how repugnant the example is, because they see power there. I've read, and it may be all wrong, that the people of Germany felt weak or victimized and that Hitler as a 'strong man' would save them. Humans always flee to what they think will help them in the micro and macro of life.

Thus they support rapists, bullies and war mongers. Nothing says power like a gun or missile. No matter how abhorrent it is, they recognize strength and prefer it to the quiet voice of reason and peace, who they call weak and spineless. They claim that they want peace, but still despise those on the path.

Same thing with the masculine and feminine, one is a spear, the other water, yet which wins in the long run, as Lao Tzu says?

Some new agers claim that we determine if we want to be born and from whom - which tosses chance out the window - which I think your example is about. And they also say we choose when and how we will die - letting killers off the hook, in opposition to the other point of view.

The only way I would agree with that would be if a fetus is aborted, the soul represented would find another way to be born, which defeats the anti-choicers trying to rescue their pet.

On more cynical days, I think the entire universe is more like an experiment in learning itself as Carl Sagan said, a sort of game. This idea either ticks me off or it's liberating, per Bill Hicks:

The world is like a ride at an amusement park. And when you choose to go on it, you think that it's real because that's how powerful our minds are. And the ride goes up and down and round and round. It has thrills and chills, and it's very brightly coloured, and it's very loud and it's fun, for a while. Some people have been on the ride for a long time, and they begin to question - is this real, or is this just a ride?

And other people have remembered, and they come back to us. They say 'Hey! Don't worry, don't be afraid, ever, because, this is just a ride.' And we...kill those people. Ha ha ha. 'Shut him up! We have a lot invested in this ride. SHUT HIM UP! Look at my furrows of worry. Look at my big bank account and family. This just has to be real.' It's just a ride. But we always kill those good guys who try and tell us that, you ever notice that?

And let the demons run amok. But it doesn't matter because: it's just a ride. And we can change it anytime we want. It's only a choice. No effort, no work, no job, no savings, and money. A choice, right now, between fear and love.

The eyes of fear want you to put bigger locks on your doors, buy guns, close yourselves off. The eyes of love, instead, see all of us as one. Here's what you can do to change the world, right now, to a better ride. Take all that money that we spend on weapons and defence each year, and instead spend it feeding, clothing and educating the poor of the world, which it would many times over, not one human being excluded, and we could explore space, together, both inner and outer, for ever, in peace.



Or as Frank Zappa said, and my agreement with that is that life if meant to be enjoyed, no matter what it is:

The whole universe is a large joke. Everything in the universe are subdivisions of this joke, so why take anything too seriously.

timdog44

(1,388 posts)
14. Freshwest.
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 08:17 PM
Apr 2013

I had to go drink another glass of wine. You are talking so much stuff. The new agers you describe sound like things my wife believes. But then you go on to the theories of my tripping days when life was meant to be enjoyed. And I try to make that my mantra now. Except when I spend too much time here. timdog

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
15. I hadn't had my coffee and that was very mangled. Sorry.
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 08:31 PM
Apr 2013
patrice can usually figure out what I'm saying. Although because of her education and philosophizing, at times I don't get what she's saying. Don't drink too much, you might post while under the influence. That does not work out well at times. My problem is lack of coffee or needing to go to bed. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it...

That's My Story - Colin Raye


I came in as the sun came up.
She glared at me over her coffee cup.
She said, "Where you been?"
So I thoguht real hard and said,
"I fell asleep in that hammock in the yard."
She said, "You don't know it boy, but you just blew it."
And I said, "Well that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

That's my story.
Oh, that's my story.
Well, I ain't got a witness, and I can't prove it,
but that's my story and I'm stickin' to it."

I got that deer-in-the-headlight look.
She read my face like the cover of a book and said,
"Don't expect me to believe all that static,
'cause just last week I threw that hammock in the attic."
My skin got so thin so you could see right through it,
and I stuttered, "Well that's my story and I'm stickin t-t-to it.

That's my story.
Well, that's my story.
I ain't got a witness, and I can't prove it,
but that's my story and I'm stickin' to it."

You know the time comes when a wise man knows
the best thing that he can do is just look her in the eye
and beg for mercy and face the bitter truth...

Well honey me and the boys played cards all night.
There wasn't no hanky-panky, not a woman in sight.
I know I should called, and baby I.. I'm really sorry,
but get a cellular phone and then you won't have to worry.
You know how much I love ya, darling, and I'm ready to prove it.
And that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

That's my story,
oh, that's my story.
Well I ain't got a witness and ya know I can't prove it.
But that's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

You know I ain't gonna do a thing darling unless you approve it.
And that's my story and I'm sticking to it.


timdog44

(1,388 posts)
16. Well, I will try not to PUI.
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 08:45 PM
Apr 2013

Colin Raye is name I have heard. The lyrics are more familiar.

I think he collaborated with Jim Brickman. I saw him in concert in Door County several years back. Probably does not fit my profile. Wine is my poison these days. Better than all the poison from my 60s days. And that's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

timdog44

(1,388 posts)
18. Now.
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 09:09 PM
Apr 2013

"The whole universe is a large joke. Everything in the universe are subdivisions of this joke, so why take anything too seriously." I guess I would suggest you are not totally on line with that. I do enjoy the turn of your words.

Sorry for my tardiness, my wife and I are watching a movie. No disrespect intended, but she is my wife.

timdog44

(1,388 posts)
20. Not sure
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 09:14 PM
Apr 2013

what happened. No passes sent or received. Sorry for unintended meanings. Anyway, bye.

Really am watching a movie.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
6. There's 3 leading theories about the non-coding regions
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 04:13 PM
Apr 2013

1) They provide "scratch space" for evolution - new random combinations can be created in these areas without harming the organism when they don't work out. When they do work out, they are no longer "non-coding".

2) They are involved in the 3-dimensional shape of the DNA molecules inside our cells.

3) They're actually do affect genes/proteins/RNA/etc but we don't understand how.

There was recently an experiment that points a bit towards #3, but we really have no idea. We don't currently have the ability to study DNA while it's within a living cell.

We do know the role of the "junk" DNA on the end of our chromosomes - when our cells copy their DNA before cell division they lose a couple bases from the ends of our DNA - the copying proteins fall off before they reach the very end of the DNA strands. So shortly after fertilization a bunch of junk is added to the end of each DNA strand, which slowly withers away during the person's lifetime. But that doesn't explain the "junk" in the middle of our chromosomes.

As for this part:

the most obvious of which is that humans aren't as important as we think we are

All eukaryotes (non-bacteria) that I know of have non-coding regions. It's not something unique to humans.

patrice

(47,992 posts)
9. Thank you! Yeah, eukaryotes are pretty interesting.
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 04:28 PM
Apr 2013

This information suggests that I was a little right when I taught the biological bases of behavior in high school psychology classes in Oklahoma, near a world-renown, very conservative Bible college, so I got into the habit of saying to certain rather resistant students that the idea that purpose is absolutely defined by evolution isn't that clear. If survival is the sole determiner of selection, why do we need all of this variation? I'm NOT a creation scientist. I'm not trying to prove a "deus ex machina". I am just guessing that there is something necessary about fewer assumptions.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
11. You need variation to try new things out.
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 04:34 PM
Apr 2013

For example: Does being taller make you more likely to pass on your genes?

Well, evolution only has one way to find out - make some people taller and some people shorter. So there's variation in height and either the taller or shorter will have more successful offspring.

Those variations are what provides the raw materials for evolution to affect a species.

 

Triana

(22,666 posts)
2. "not sacrificing as much"? Alrighty then....
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 03:50 PM
Apr 2013

...let's have MEN start becoming pregnant, giving birth and sacrificing their careers and lives to stay at home and raise kids and see if they still agree. Pfft.

(that would be my answer - ALONG with eviction to the sofa)

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
4. The only information content I need to provide is
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 03:56 PM
Apr 2013

where he needs to touch me next and how. And then he obeys.

It's a very uncomplicated system.

patrice

(47,992 posts)
7. +1 + either please try not to fart too close to me, or do SOMETHING!! about his GI tract.
Thu Apr 18, 2013, 04:15 PM
Apr 2013

Everything else is his own business.

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