Is Organic Better? Ask a Fruit Fly

[G_j]

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/04/17/is-organic-better-ask-a-fruit-fly/

4 17, 2013, 11:58 AM

Is Organic Better? Ask a Fruit Fly
By TARA PARKER-POPE

When Ria Chhabra, a middle school student near Dallas, heard her parents arguing about the value of organic foods, she was inspired to create a science fair project to try to resolve the debate.

Three years later, Ria’s exploration of fruit flies and organic foods has not only raised some provocative questions about the health benefits of organic eating, it has also earned the 16-year-old top honors in a national science competition, publication in a respected scientific journal and university laboratory privileges normally reserved for graduate students.

The research, titled “Organically Grown Food Provides Health Benefits to Drosophila melanogaster,” tracked the effects of organic and conventional diets on the health of fruit flies. By nearly every measure, including fertility, stress resistance and longevity, flies that fed on organic bananas and potatoes fared better than those who dined on conventionally raised produce.

While the results can’t be directly extrapolated to human health, the research nonetheless paves the way for additional studies on the relative health benefits of organic versus conventionally grown foods. Fruit fly models are often used in research because their short life span allows scientists to evaluate a number of basic biological effects over a relatively brief period of time, and the results provide clues for better understanding disease and biological processes in humans.

..more..

[d_r]

1. yeah, but

one of the reasons they use pesticides is to get rid of fruit flies. Just saying.

[Berlum]

2. Chemically saturated food isn't improving human health either

[el_bryanto]

3. Except in so far as they provide food -

people without food tend to get hungry.

Bryant

[TalkingDog]

5. Oh, whatever did the prehistoric hunter gatherers

(who lived mostly off of fruit and veg and insects and meat when they could get it) do without Pesticides? Oh, the Humanity!

They evidently all starved to death before any of us could be born.

[el_bryanto]

7. That's a pretty weak response

That's on the level of "It's cold outside - Global Warming must be a hoax."

The reason our ancestors could survive was that there was a lot fewer of them. You can certainly argue that it would be for the best if we had a lot fewer humans now, but getting from point A to point B means letting go of a lot of humans.

Bryant

[TalkingDog]

11. I was using a weak response in rejoinder to a weak thesis.

Notwithstanding the additions of other chemicals or additives to growing crops used to increase production (read fertilizers) what difference do pesticides make in the increase in percentage of yield?

You want to argue, show me the money; instead of throwing out vague off-hand comment that come across as distinctly snide.

[el_bryanto]

12. Ok - you want me to argue that killing pests who eat crops means more crops?

OK - well - if you kill the pests with pesticides they don't eat the crops and there are more crops.

That was easy.

That's not to say that there aren't unintended consequences; obviously pesticides should be tested and reviewed and even then something like DDT might happen (where the effects weren't clear for a while.

Why do you think farmers and agri-businesses are using pesticides?

Bryant

[wickerwoman]

27. Because they mono-crop

and it's easier when you have access to cheap petroleum to plant huge squares of the same thing and spray the shit out of it killing beneficial insects and pollinators as well than it is to plan a more natural and diverse ecosystem.

On a square acre to square acre comparison, permaculture gardens will produce more food than mono-crops. They just require more intense labor inputs because plants aren't in tractor friendly rows. And since we have so many unemployed people, maybe we should start looking at how to reorganise land distribution and access and get more people growing their own food.

We could produce enough organic food to feed the world. We'd just need a lot more farmers than we have now.

[el_bryanto]

34. What you are talking about is a fundamental reworking of society if I understand it.

How many people would we need to do this? There are about 11,742,000 unemployed currently, would that be enough? or would we need to move people away from jobs we don't approve of to do small scale agriculture?

Bryant

[wickerwoman]

48. At the rate that pollinating insects are dying off

combined with peak oil and the end of cheap petroleum and thus cheap fertiliser, food transport, pesticides and fuel for agricultural equipment we don't have a hell of a lot of choice.

I can grow 60-70% of the food I eat on the garden in my back yard (a little bigger than a double driveway). Most families on 1/4 acres lots if they dug up their lawns could grow more fresh fruits and veggies than their families could eat.

What you realise when you start gardening is what an absolutely ridiculous amount of food you can easily grow on a small amount of land and how much food producing potential we are completely squandering because we can't be arsed or think lawns look neater.

The point is that if we had to feed the world organic produce, we could.

[randr]

52. For the money

Same reason we are stuck in a petrochemical political head lock.
Just as our bodies perform better when well fed so does the Earth. The artificial production of foods has some well intentioned rhetoric but in the end it is no different than continuing to build coal fired power plants in lieu of renewable clean energy sources.

[mac56]

35. Seriously?

And their mortality rate was what?

[Orrex]

36. Well, they did eventually engage in a lot of gene-modding

That's what that whole agricultural revolution was about, artificially selecting wheat and other crops to improve yields.

Shame on them for fucking with the environment!

[Spitfire of ATJ]

15. That's the argument they used during the debate to stop using DDT.

[el_bryanto]

16. It is a trade off - there's no denying that

It's also another example of the Boots theory of Economic Disparity.

Bryant

[Spitfire of ATJ]

23. More like the making of hot dogs.

[Berlum]

26. ..and people gobbling chem-soaked food tend to get sick. Slowly.

...but inevitably. Sure chem and pharma and GMO corps trot out their "Poo Poo" paid 'science" all the time, but there is no escaping reality.

Enjoy a platter of Anhydrous Amonia if you wish. Have a blast.

https://www.commondreams.org/view/2013/01/02-9

[el_bryanto]

32. So-called brain? nt

[Sheepshank]

6. Do potatoes get sprayed with chemicals?

I wonder if the article (can't link to it from work for some reason), references the types of chemical that were used on the regular potatoes and bananas vs. the organic versions?

[progressoid]

14. Absolutely.

I remember an interview with author Michael Pollan (The Botany of Desire) where he talked about the way potato farmers pump chemicals into their irrigation systems.

Interesting side story. Pollan noticed that one farmer was also growing potatoes in his vegetable garden. When asked why, the farmer said he wouldn't eat the potatoes he grows for market (McDonalds).

[cstanleytech]

29. I wonder if the potatoes in his garden were of the same variety though?

Some for example a better suited for say making french fries while others are better suited for say being made into mashed potatoes.

[OnlinePoker]

24. I just googled it.

This is an article about potato farming in Prince Edward Island, one of Canada's main growing regions. At the bottom is a list of a lot of chemicals that are being used there. I'm not sure what date it was written (there's reference to 1997 in the list of chemicals), but from the article:

"The carefully constructed image of Prince Edward Island as a pastoral paradise was shattered this summer. Over the course of one month, nine rivers were poisoned by agricultural pesticides. Thousands of fish were found belly-up, and frogs, snakes, worms, slugs and insects were exterminated.

It was bound to happen. In just a decade, the Island has become a potato monoculture, with one out of every six acres of all land devoted to potato production. Agricultural pesticide use has increased by a whopping 571% over the past 14 years."

http://www.watershedsentinel.ca/content/potato-paradise-lost-harmful-pesticides-pei

[Sheepshank]

25. oh my!!!! and thanks for the info n/t

[Gormy Cuss]

10. The article mentions that limitation

namely that her observations don't explain why the fruit fly health differed and that residual pesticide or fungicide may have been a factor.

However, since it's a fruit fly experiment there's lots of opportunity for repeating it with variations in the cohorts, say comparing no spray vegetables vs. ones where pesticides were apply, and ultimately comparing based on single pesticide or fungicide use vs. organic.

[bluestate10]

42. Plants can be sprayed with natural substances to prevent attack from pests. More

organic pesticides are showing up every year. Natural garlic extract diluted with water and sprayed on plants prevent many pest attacks.

[d_r]

44. I'm not saying that there aren't alternatives

to pesticides, I'm not saying that organic isn't worthwhile or healthier, I'm saying that it doesn't surprise me that fruit flies do better on the food that was never treated with pesticide.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

4. Ew! I'm not eating that!

It's full of fruit flies!

[Pisces]

8. Smart girl with a bright future in front of her. Common sense should also tell people that poisons

are bad for you.

[MattBaggins]

31. And Science would tell you that the answer is "depends"

[Pisces]

38. Science tells me that the residue of toxins is left inside the body, so much so that infants are

born with toxins in their systems before taking their first breath. Science is also telling us that these pesticides are
killing the honeybee which are required for all fruits and vegetables.

[MattBaggins]

40. Toxin is a gobbeldygook word

Doesn't mean anything

[Pisces]

41. Continue to poison yourself, I'll feed my family organic.

[MattBaggins]

43. Organic is a nice fancy word to slap on labels

in order to conjure up images of rainbows and unicorns.

By what standard is something organic?

[roody]

47. USDA standards-look for the label. Nt

[BlueStreak]

9. If you want to get rid of fruitflies,

feed them the crap you find at our big box groceries.

[FlaGranny]

13. "conventionally grown foods"

That is a phrase that speaks of how much has changed. Food has been conventionally grown for many thousands of years - Add organic matter, dig it in, let it "stew" for a while, plant, water, and pick off the bugs. The way things are grown now is no longer conventional, historically speaking.

[bluestate10]

45. Not totally true. Organic farmers and hard nosed gardeners have known for hundreds

of years that "companion" plants can be grown near desired plants to protect the desired plants from damage by bugs. Tomato and Basil are deeply attached. Italian farmers learned long ago that Basil drove of worms that eat up tomato plants.

[FlaGranny]

55. Yes, companion planting

is also part of it, but why are you saying "not totally true"? Nothing I said was untrue, I just didn't include every thing possible in regard to growing plants naturally and I certainly didn't omit companion planting on purpose in order to create an untruth.

[DeSwiss]

17. K&R

[Ratty]

18. I can't afford organic food

But some things I always get organic and if I can't afford it I go without. I'm a huge milk drinker and organic just tastes so so much better. Someone told me this once and I didn't believe her but decided to give it a try and was amazed at the difference. Non-fat milk doesn't have the watery, thin, blue, weird taste. I can actually drink it! Plus, since I drink so much of it organic is definitely worth it for health reasons too. Who needs hormones and antibiotics in daily doses like that?

I'd never spend good money on organic bananas or potatoes or anything that needs to be peeled though. Guess I'll kick the bucket a few days early.

[Flying Squirrel]

37. Me either... it spoils before I can even eat it. n/t

[randr]

53. False reasoning

Would you buy a bottle of 100 50mg aspirin for $10 or a bottle of 100 100mg for $15?
Our food is our source of nutrition, not just a product to satisfy our hunger.

[L0oniX]

19. Oh man ...there goes the reasoning for importing workers from I****.

We can't be have our schools turning out smart people who want good pay ...that will ruin our Romney like plot of serfdom for all because we aren't smart enough like corporate CEO's.

[TexasBushwhacker]

20. If there's one thing to buy organic, it's strawberries

The chemicals they use to grow "conventional" strawberries are so harmful the farm workers wear hazmat suits.

[kentauros]

21. I buy/grow organic in order to improve the topsoil.

Healthy soil grows healthy plants. Healthy plants are also more resistant to pests and disease (not immune, mind you, but resistant.)

Healthy soil promotes the growth of good bacteria, good insects, beneficial fungi, and good water-retention. It's also an excellent carbon-sink.

[G_j]

39. +1

[GermanDem]

22. My three guinea pigs prefer organic carrots

over conventional ones! When I buy them organic carrots they eat them all up, while they always leave some leftovers when I give them non-organic carrots. They are not very smart animals, but they are quite picky when it comes to their food. Made me wonder, and now I am buying more organic produce for our family.

[Recursion]

28. Somebody get that girl a scholarship (nt)

[bluestate10]

46. I think she won a $100,000 dollar scholarship for her win of the science competition. Plus,

I am sure top universities are drooling over having her study on their campus.

[Joshua Pistachio]

30. A fly is not a person

Sorry. And the fly doesn't have to pay the expensive prices of organic food either.

[ljm2002]

33. So all the massive amount of research that uses fruit flies...

...is worthless then?

Perhaps you should study up on the use of Drosophila melanogaster in biological research.

Here's a start, I'll leave it to you to find other links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drosophila_melanogaster
http://www.unc.edu/depts/our/hhmi/hhmi-ft_learning_modules/fruitflymodule/
http://scienceinsociety.northwestern.edu/content/articles/2010/why-fruit-fly-research-no-joke

And by the way, do you really think scientists are not aware that fruit flies are not human? Really?

Finally, right there in the OP, the last paragraph included starts with: "While the results can’t be directly extrapolated to human health"... I guess you missed that part.

Oh well. Welcome to DU, enjoy your stay.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

50. It's not the person you're replying to who's showing ignorance, I'm afraid.

There are a number of reasons they make excellent model organisms.

Physiological similarity to humans is not one of them.

Using fruitflies to test whether or not produce that is likely to have been treated with chemicals specifically designed to be toxic to insects but not to humans is better for humans is obviously going to be problematical...

[ljm2002]

54. The experiment in question...

...is organic vs. non-organic produce. The insecticides that were used on the non-organic produce are not identified. The experiment is suggestive and invites further research. It was never intended to delve into any specific model of the action (or not) of pesticides used in non-organic produce.

What it does show is, there IS a difference between organic and non-organic produce, and that difference can be demonstrated in at least one organism, namely the fruit fly.

We are told daily that there is NO difference between organic and non-organic produce. Most recently there were news stories about the relative nutritional merits of organic vs. non-organic fruits and vegetables, where they were deemed equivalent. But the issue of potentially harmful chemicals that might be present in non-organic items was not addressed, giving the impression that there was no difference between them at all.

As for the insecticides that are "designed to be toxic to insects but not to humans", I'm sure they are indeed LESS toxic to humans. On the other hand, I've never seen a label on an insecticide of any kind that does not advise humans to avoid ingesting it. Yes, yes, I know: concentrated amounts vs. trace amounts, etc. Of course. It won't kill you, certainly not the amount you'll get by eating one apple. But there are potentially cumulative effects.

Anyway: the study is suggestive. It doesn't tell us how this plays out in humans. But it does show is there is a difference, and that is an important piece of information.

[Warren DeMontague]

49. don't put non-organic banana peels in your compost.

I can't speak to all produce, but whatever they spray on the outside of the bananas is bad shit.

[avaistheone1]

51. k&r